That is better.
I hope it keeps going down.
I hope it keeps going down.
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CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with
- Thread starter pat
- Start Date
I went to see her today and took my other kitty to get her BG checked. Hallie hissed at Callie.
I asked the vet about Azodyl and she didn't know much about it and the Azodyl they had on the shelf had expired so she ordered some that is suppose to be in tomorrow.
Does the vet know it has to to stay in the fridge?
Did yo ask abot the other stuff?
Did yo ask abot the other stuff?
She doesn't have hypertension. I asked about B12 and something to increase muscle mass and she didn't think she needed them since she is eating. I was trying to ask everything to ask. I'm sure I forgot something. She isn't testing her electrolytes because she doesn't think its necessary?! She had no protein in her urine. What else?!
Did yo ask abot a phos binder?
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #386
What?? Ok, that pressed my buttons. CRF kitties have issues with their potassium levels (sometimes, it does need to be monitored) due to the high volume of urine they produce. You can read more about this here:http://www.felinecrf.org/just_diagnosed.htm#potassium1
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- Jan 30, 2005
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Can you get a 2nd opinion?
She is on epatikin which is a phos binder.
I know Sharky. I don't understand why her electrolytes weren't tested. This is so frustrating.
I can get a second opinion. I'm not exactly where around here I should take her to.
I know Sharky. I don't understand why her electrolytes weren't tested. This is so frustrating.
I can get a second opinion. I'm not exactly where around here I should take her to.
Yes, I believe you need to get a second opinion. Hallie has a CRITICAL serum phosphorus of 16.1 (normal is below 6.) She needs to be on an effective phosphorus binder (and in my opinion, immediately!) This is a quote from the phosphorus binder page of the CRF supply site. http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...es/binders.htm
Epakitin/Ipakitine. Ipakitine has been marketed in Europe for awhile and its twin product, Epakitin, is now being heavily marketed in the US as a "nutritional supplement." This product's active binding ingredients are calcium carbonate and chitosan. Tests have shown the calcium carbonate binders are inferior to the aluminum-based products. Several well-known CRF researchers advised that this product should not be used in cats with high normal or elevated calcium due to the risk of throwing such cats into hypercalcemia by adding calcium carbonate to their daily meds. Dr. Larry Nagode of Ohio State University Veterinary College advises that the product should not be used with cats that currently get calcitriol nor cats that may get it in the future, again because of the risk of hypercalcemia. Epatikin is being marketed directly to vets and more as a renal protectorant/preventive than as a treatment for elevated phosphorus. I've received emails from folks in Germany and Switzerland about Ipakitine being prescribed for their early CRF cats - they report it seems to have helped their cats' appetite and energy. None of these cats had elevated phosphorus. Dosage recommendation is based on weight alone (1g/5kg body weight given orally in the morning and the evening mixed with food) without regard to phosphorus levels -- this further suggests that the product is intended for cats in early CRF and/or CRF cats with phosphorus in normal bounds rather than cats with elevated phosphorus where dosage is normally adjusted based on phosphorus values.
*All red highlights are mine.*
It's great that her BUN and Creatinine have come down so well. I do think that she needs to have her electrolytes checked...now especially, since she's on Epakitin. Epakitin can cause an elevation in serum Calcium levels. Her serum Phosphorus level needs to be continually monitored, and as Pat mentioned, you need to stay on top of her serum Potassium level, and supplement when necessary. You might want to call around to other vets in your area, and ask if they are up-to-date with the latest/most current treatment regimens for CRF, and if they are comfortable treating a 'high numbers' CRF cat. Here's a link that may be able to help you find someone in your area. http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/vets/index.html
Her last phosphorus level was 10.1. Which phosphorus binder do you recommend? I asked that her electrolytes be checked and they are going to be checked tomorrow when they do her blood work. Thank you for posting the information on the Epakitin. She is possibly going to come home tomorrow. She seems to be doing better. Any advice/questions I should ask?
This is the one I also recommend. I order Cleo's Aluminum Hydroxide gel powder from them (ThrivingPets.com .) I have been very satisfied with their service. It's nice, because they accept Paypal, you don't need a prescription to order it, and they ship right away (I usually receive my order in a day or two.)
Please share Hallie's electrolyte results with us. If she seems to be having muscle wasting, you can ask to have her tested for Metabolic Acidosis. It can be a bit tricky to test for it, and most vets have to send the blood sample to an outside lab to have it done. The treatment is simple, and your vet may recommend treating for it, even if they can't test for it. Potassium deficiency can also mimick metabolic acidosis, and it is easy to tell by blood test, whether you need to supplement. If her Calcium is elevated from the Epakitin, discontinuing it should cause it to return to normal levels. I believe there are other treatments for elevated serum Calcium levels, but I'm not as familiar with them. Cleo's runs high side of normal, but we've never treated it.
Since Hallie has been at the vet for several days, you should ask how her appetite has been, and whether she needs an appetite stimulant or something for nausea. You should also find out if they have recently done a CBC (Complete Blood Count) to check for anemia. If any of those things are issues, we can give you some suggestions that you can discuss with your vet. You and Hallie are in my prayers!
Here are Hallie's results from 3/07:
BUN: 81 (16-36)
Creatinine: 4.4 (0.8-2.4)
Phosphorus: 7.6
pH: 7.47 (7.24-7.4)
HCO3: 22.8 (22-24)
PCO2: 34.0 (34-38)
tCO2: 23.8 (27-31)
Na: 169.0 (150-165)
K: 5.7 (3.5-5.8)
Cl: 125.0 (112-129)
She had her BUN, Creatinine, and Phosphorus drawn today, but I don't have the results yet.
BUN: 81 (16-36)
Creatinine: 4.4 (0.8-2.4)
Phosphorus: 7.6
pH: 7.47 (7.24-7.4)
HCO3: 22.8 (22-24)
PCO2: 34.0 (34-38)
tCO2: 23.8 (27-31)
Na: 169.0 (150-165)
K: 5.7 (3.5-5.8)
Cl: 125.0 (112-129)
She had her BUN, Creatinine, and Phosphorus drawn today, but I don't have the results yet.
I hope the new numbers will be better.
Here numbers are better then Cocos.
Bun 80 (15.0-32.0 mg/dl
Creatine 5.0 (0.8-1.8 mg/dl
Phosphorus 8.0 (2.6-6.0 mg/dl
Calcium 14.6 (8.8-11.5 mg/d/l
Total Protien 6.8 (6.0-8.0 g/dl
Albumin 2.9 (2.3-3.5 g/dl
Globulin 3.9 (2.8-4.8 g/dl
Urine Test
Specific Gravity =1.008 low (ref 1.015-1050)
ph =6.0 (5.5-7.0) Normal
Wbc/hpf =>100 high (0-3)
Rbc/hpf=4-10 high (0-3)
Bacteria 4+(cocci and rods appearance)
verified by wrights stain
Here numbers are better then Cocos.
Bun 80 (15.0-32.0 mg/dl
Creatine 5.0 (0.8-1.8 mg/dl
Phosphorus 8.0 (2.6-6.0 mg/dl
Calcium 14.6 (8.8-11.5 mg/d/l
Total Protien 6.8 (6.0-8.0 g/dl
Albumin 2.9 (2.3-3.5 g/dl
Globulin 3.9 (2.8-4.8 g/dl
Urine Test
Specific Gravity =1.008 low (ref 1.015-1050)
ph =6.0 (5.5-7.0) Normal
Wbc/hpf =>100 high (0-3)
Rbc/hpf=4-10 high (0-3)
Bacteria 4+(cocci and rods appearance)
verified by wrights stain
Her new numbers were worse.
BUN: 85
Creatinine: 4.9
Phosphorus: 11
I've been mixing FF in with her Hill's k/d wet food. I wonder if this caused the increase even though she has a phosphorus binder mixed with it.
BUN: 85
Creatinine: 4.9
Phosphorus: 11
I've been mixing FF in with her Hill's k/d wet food. I wonder if this caused the increase even though she has a phosphorus binder mixed with it.
That can do it.
Coco eats nothing but renal food.
Coco eats nothing but renal food.
There's a list that I've found that has FF flavors that are low in phosphorus 0.80-1.32. Would you consider that to be low or should I stop feeding her FF? I want her to maintain her weight, but not blow her phosphorus levels too high.
Sorry I am not sre on that one.
I think Coco might have worse numbers next time she gets tested also.
Are yo doing sb q's?
I think Coco might have worse numbers next time she gets tested also.
Are yo doing sb q's?
She's been getting them, but I haven't done them myself yet. When I went to pick her up Saturday the vet had me stick her. She acted like I've never seen her do before. The vet ended up doing the fluids. I took her to the emergency vet Sunday and they did her fluids. I took her back to the vet today to get blood work done and they gave her fluids. I'm going to try tomorrow. I'm having problems with her taking her pills. I've put it in her food. Got pill pockets. I've tried putting it in her mouth and closing it and blowing on her face. She won't take it.
