Creating a home-cooked resources sticky

[ldg]

Yeah. Didn't even know there were any.

 

[mschauer]

Should the recipes on www.dogcathomeprepareddiet.com be supplemented with taurine? And should it be mentioned that the vegetarian recipes for cats aren't really appropriate?

The "vegetarian" recipes aren't really vegetarian. 

Cats have some unique nutritional needs that a strictly vegetarian diet cannot satisfy.

And then he goes on to say how to prepare his pseudo vegetarian diets using non-vegetarian ingredients as needed.

As for the taurine, I expect he believes the ingredients provide sufficient taurine. Most of them include shellfish or fish that are high in taurine. The turkey recipe looks like the only one that doesn't have shellfish or fish. Don't know if that is an over sight or if he believes turkey has sufficient taurine. Many of his recipes call for clams which is very high in taurine.

 

[peaches08]

Other than egg yolk and bone meal, I didn't see anything animal based...?

 

[mschauer]

Other than egg yolk and bone meal, I didn't see anything animal based...?

The nutrients that cats can only derive from animal sources are provided by supplements.

 

[ldg]

I saw his comments about the diets, and caught the info about the supplements. But is meeting the needs of a cat the same thing as appropriate for a cat? I think it's worth mentioning that the vegetarian recipes are not species-appropriate.

 

[peaches08]

The nutrients that cats can only derive from animal sources are provided by supplements.

From the multivitamin, taurine, and calcium supplement? So the egg yolk is the only nutrition from a food source in the tofu recipe?

 

[mschauer]

I saw his comments about the diets, and caught the info about the supplements. But is meeting the needs of a cat the same thing as appropriate for a cat? I think it's worth mentioning that the vegetarian recipes are not species-appropriate.

A true vegetarian diet isn't appropriate because it can't provide all nutrients needed by a cat. His diets aren't vegetarian. They *do* provide all nutrients needed by a cat. It's just that the ones a cat ordinarily can only get from a whole animal source are instead coming from a bottle. Whether or not someone believes providing nutrients in that manner is appropriate is largely a matter of opinion. It isn't that different from the commercial processed providing a large amount of nutrients from supplements because the low quality ingredients either lack them are they are destroyed during hyper processing. 

Makes no difference to me if you want to label them as "inappropriate" though. 

 

[peaches08]

I saw his comments about the diets, and caught the info about the supplements. But is meeting the needs of a cat the same thing as appropriate for a cat? I think it's worth mentioning that the vegetarian recipes are not species-appropriate.

I agree.

 

[ldg]

I get your point, and did before. But tofu is no more species-appropriate in a home cooked meal than soy is in a commercial food. :dk:

 

[mschauer]

I get your point, and did before. But tofu is no more species-appropriate in a home cooked meal than soy is in a commercial food.

Lets let people do their own thinking. The first post of the thread should be links to resources without any personal commentary. If we don't think Dr. Strombeck's recipes can be trusted it makes no sense to use the link at all. If that or any other link is included and anyone wants to object to something about it they can add a post to the thread.  

 

[ldg]

That works.

But just to be clear, it's not that the recipes in general can't be trusted. And, quite frankly, we don't have a better resource. I'd much prefer to provide links to cooked recipes that don't include "vegetarian" options.

 

[vball91]

I'd much prefer to provide links to cooked recipes that don't include "vegetarian" options.

I agree.

 

[mschauer]

That works.

I'd much prefer to provide links to cooked recipes that don't include "vegetarian" options.

I agree also but unfortunately there just aren't a lot of sites with cooked recipes.

 

[peaches08]

That works.

But just to be clear, it's not that the recipes in general can't be trusted. And, quite frankly, we don't have a better resource. I'd much prefer to provide links to cooked recipes that don't include "vegetarian" options.

I agree as well. If somewhere down the line a person asks about that site's meat-based recipes then they can be assured that their cats will be fine.

The only difference between raw and home-cooked is the cooking. Other than making sure that people are aware of balancing the diet and to not feed cooked bones, I'm not sure how many more recipes there are.

 

[mschauer]

The only difference between raw and home-cooked is the cooking. Other than making sure that people are aware of balancing the diet and to not feed cooked bones, I'm not sure how many more recipes there are.

That's a good point. There really isn't nutritionally that much difference between a cooked diet and a raw one. I've notice that when the Alnutrin online calculator is used they recommend the same amount of their product whether you select cooked ingredients or raw ones. At least that has been true with the few test cases I've tried. Of course there is some nutritional difference. Some vitamins levels are reduced by cooking. But I think the differences are frequently exaggerated. 

 

[peaches08]

That's a good point. There really isn't nutritionally that much difference between a cooked diet and a raw one. I've notice that when the Alnutrin online calculator is used they recommend the same amount of their product whether you select cooked ingredients or raw ones. At least that has been true with the few test cases I've tried. Of course there is some nutritional difference. Some vitamins levels are reduced by cooking. But I think the differences are frequently exaggerated. 

Exactly, I completely agree! I think for some cats with digestive issues, cooked meat will be key for them.

 

[feralvr]

Are you going to try to feed Perla a home cooked diet?  I've got chicken thighs thawing right now and am going to bake them in a few minutes so she can have them for her late night meal .(since she's so hard to please)  Luckily I already have the alnutrin w/ eggshell powder on hand, and even some chicken livers!  Now here's hoping she will like the "concoction" .  I think I'll leave the boys' diet alone, since they seem to like their raw just fine.  Honestly, I'm afraid if I change anything, they might decide they prefer cooked to raw, and I think I prefer raw to cooked as my first option.

I am definitely going to give it a go with Perla. She would rather starve than eat anything raw and after a year and a half of it, I gave up with her or should I say, gave in. It is quite pitiful to see her antics AND quite dramatic and amusing all at the same time if it wasn't so frustrating and worrying. :lol3: I have found that all of my other five good raw eaters don't even care what I serve up to Perla. AND, Perla is always the very last one to stroll in for her "private" feedings. Everyone else is all done by then but Perkins (Piggins') is always waiting to see if Perla will eat and is more than willing to eat what she won't.

I guess I have to try to find a good book with healthful recipes for cooked cat food first. I am going on-line today to do some searching. The books I mentioned above do not have good cooked cat food recipes - more raw food recipes! Thanks, Mshauer!

I really hope that Callie will love some of the new cooked meals, Sally. Mega vibes for your little rincess:

 

[jcat]

Some books with cooked recipes people could take a look at to see what they think:
The Ultimate Pet Food Guide: Everything You Need to Know about Feeding Your Dog or Cat The recipes are heavy on seafood, IMO, and the author is a dog trainer, not a vet. Nutrition info is given in simple terms.

Dinner PAWsible: A cookbook for healthy, nutritious meals for cats and dogs
The recipes are in cups, tablespoons, etc., and in grams, with calorie counts and indications for calcium supplements or ground eggshell. They have veggies and some grains like brown rice. Ground sunflower seeds are used a lot. Susan Thixton runs the Truth About Pet Food site.

Both books are available in paperback or as Kindle e-books. You don't have to have a Kindle to read them, as you can download a free Kindle app for your PC, tablet or smartphone.

Has anybody seen this article about homemade dog food? It makes me pause, because preparing food for cats is even more complicated:

Homemade dog food recipes can be risky business, study finds

Larsen, together with Jonathan Stockman, a veterinarian and second-year resident in clinical nutrition at UC Davis, selected 200 recipes from 34 different sources, including veterinary textbooks, pet care books and web sites. They evaluated both the ingredients and the instructions for each recipe, using a computer-based program to quantify the nutritional content of the food described by each recipe, as well as the specificity of the instructions.

They found that only nine of the 200 recipes —including eight of the nine written by veterinarians — provided all essential nutrients in concentrations that met the minimum standards established for adult dogs by the Association of American Feed Control Officials, while only five recipes — all written by veterinarians — provided essential nutrients in concentrations that met the National Research Council’s Minimum Requirements for adult dogs.

Although recipes written by veterinarians were less likely to have any nutrient deficiencies — and those being less severe — most still had at least one deficiency. Interestingly, only four of the 200 recipes were written by board-certified veterinary nutritionists, and all of those four recipes had acceptable nutrient profiles for adult dogs.

 

[mschauer]

We discussed that article in another thread recently. Don't remember which one??

I actually was encouraged by it because it verifies something that has been a concern to me. I use a computer based program to evaluate my homemade diets and I've always wondered how accurate an analysis done that way really is. They confirmed, by way of comparison against laboratory analysis, that for the most part a computer based analysis is accurate. 

Did the researchers say they tested any recipe that used a premix? The use of those premixes is one way pet owners be assured that their homemade foods are nutritionally adequate by AAFCO standards at least. 

Edit: And of course it has to be considered that just not satisfying NRC or AAFCO recommendations doesn't necessarily mean a food isn't nutritionally adequate. 

 

[ldg]

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261571/the-problem-with-home-made-diets-and-how-to-analyze-your-diet

Post #30