Cj! Cj! Cj!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hissy]

Careful Cassie,

Don't mistake our concern for anger or criticism. Is it possible you can take Cj's temperature now to see where she is at? If it is low 99.5 to 100.5 then she is in labor or pretty close to being there. If it is high 102.5 or up then she has an infection and it is possible the kittens are not surviving inside of her. If the discharge you are seeing is smelly- then you have a problem. If she is laying down and pushing and nothing is happening- you are having a problem.

Understand, we are only trying to help. My hope is you will accept the help without getting upset as to how it is being offered. Words on a computer screen sometimes hit people the wrong way because they can't hear the tone they are being offered in.

But first and foremost our concern is for CJ and the kittens. We know that you can handle any type of attitude you think is being thrown at you. But CJ only has you to depend on should she be in trouble-

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by Sheva's Mom

Like I said in my last posting, I didn't mean to sound harsh, nor was my intent to offend anyone. I was just trying to point out that she is young and her resources may not be what yours or mine might be.

Understood

I am just rather worried for CJ, and only want a good outcome for the kit and the person who loves her.

 

[maverick_kitten]

sometimes its easy to forget that your only just turned 16 and therfor fairly dependant on your parents for things like taking the cat to the vets.

it must be very hard for you being worried for poor cj and your parents and vet thinking shes ok.

sending you hugs and vibes that cj will give birth soon and you can relax

 

[crazykitten]

ok do me it does sound like cj needs to see the vet. but what i would like to point out is that being a minor with a pet is a whole different ball park yes i would love for cj to go to the vet and make sure she is ok because i feel that is best. but when you have parents and the odds are they will be paying for the bil the parents will take the recommendation of the vet if the vet says cj is fine then they will not worry about it. most parents will listen to the vet and just think there daughter is being a "worry wart". and cassie you can call another vet and see what he/she says a second opinion wont help. i still remember what it is like having parents specialy parents who wanted the animal to be deathly sick before they acted. cj is important but i dont want people to forget cassie is 15 or 16. i understand everyone is extremely concerned about cj and they should be i know a human would not of had her water broke for this long and not seen a doctor. i agree that she needs to go to a vet being we have people that have breed cats for very long time and are in their own experts how about we tell cassie what to look for if her mom feels cj is fine tell cassie what signs to look for that point to trouble.

i dont want to offend anyone. and cassie please do what hissy said and please try to take cj's temperture. i think that would put everyone at ease and if it says she is infected call your vet the second it shows and tell him or her cj's temp and hopefully get cj to the vet.

 

[nano]

I do not come here to force someone to do something or criticize people. I offer advice of what I would do, which might or might not be that accurate since I can't actually witness the situation firsthand. CJandBilly seems conscientious and it trying...that is all anyone can do when in a difficult spot.

I remember when I was 14 and had a pet suddenly go ill over the course of a few hours. This is long before the internet days and pet owners were more isolated or relied on books or what could be found from talking to breeders. Anyway, I detected a serious problem and at 11 PM had to go wake up my parents and say we need to go to the emergency vet clinic. I was calm but clearly explained that there was a major problem. My dad drove me and he sat in waiting area while I went and handled it. The pet needed to stay for two days. So my dad then asked the vet: "Was this really an emergency?" And the vet said: "Yes, waiting until the morning would have been too late." Now that was the only emergency I had while under my parent's roof, but until I had my own car at 17 I had to rely on them for rides and to coordinate the regular shot and S/N schedule.

Now I paid all of the vet bills myself, but I can understand pressures from parents and dealing with people who think you are over-reacting. Sometimes I wonder if the internet makes us better pet owners -- if maybe we read so many obscure things and getting so much information that we start making our cats out to be hypochondriacs. Imagining stuff. But CJandBilly said she has witnessed births before so I have zero reason not to trust her observations -- there probably is "something" going on with this mamacat. But I am not a vet and I am not there first-hand, so I have to trust the people who are closer to this situation.

Good luck to all!

 

[caterpillar]

Cassie, I hope you can post pics of kittens! We would love to see some pics of the new-born kittens.

As someone extremely experienced in human births, you do get irregular contractions and hardening of the tummy before labor actually begins. (Not to be confused with the onset of real labor with contractions that are regular and can be timed) These contractions intensify and lead to the loss of the mucous plug and breaking of water. When your water breaks, the contractions really intensify. My water never broke on its own, the doctors broke it in the hospital and that really brought on good, strong contractions leading to imminent birth. And yes, a normal discharge is heavier during pregnancy.

I'm not a vet, either, nor do I know anything about birthing kittens. I guess you'd make this a disclaimer.

Well, good luck to CJ. I hope she gives birth soon.

Those irregular contractions are called Braxton-Hicks. (in humans, that is)

 

[pat]

Originally Posted by caterpillar

As someone extremely experienced in human births, you do get irregular contractions and hardening of the tummy before labor actually begins. (Not to be confused with the onset of real labor with contractions that are regular and can be timed) These contractions intensify and lead to the loss of the mucous plug and breaking of water. When your water breaks, the contractions really intensify. My water never broke on its own, the doctors broke it in the hospital and that really brought on good, strong contractions leading to imminent birth. And yes, a normal discharge is heavier during pregnancy.

I'm not a vet, either, nor do I know anything about birthing kittens. I guess you'd make this a disclaimer.

Well, good luck to CJ. I hope she gives birth soon.

Those irregular contractions are called Braxton-Hicks. (in humans, that is)

Not only did I breed cats for 13 years, I was a high risk labor and delivery RN as well....I went by all that she had observed and described, and based on that, told her my honest concerns. You have to factor in color and consistency of that discharge as well as when, look at the description of the contractions and the cat's behavior before just saying it's braxton hicks, to look at the entire picture.

My vets during the time I had my breeding program, quickly learned that if I felt something was wrong, I was right, something was. Same with my patients...if I felt something was off, I didn't pretend it would just be okay, I did my job and reported my concerns and took other appropriate actions.

All of this...is about CJ. I cared enough to voice my concerns and explain them. I won't apologize for that, I think the concern is very appropriate, and boy, do I want to be wrong here. Believe me.

I am now unsubscribing from this thread, as I have said all I have to say.

Best wishes to CJ and her owner.

 

[cjandbilly]

With all due respect, What in the world am I supposed to do!? I have told you ALL that my mother believes CJ is okay, and that the VETERINARIAN said she is okay, and I believe she is okay now. I was worried at first, but I believe she WILL BE OKAY! I don't really appreciate the fact that when I was finally calmed, and told you all that the vet said all was okay, that you STILL continued to BOMBARD (yes BOMBARD) me with things to SCARE me into taking her in even though the vet was NOT CONCERNED WHATSOEVER! I was, and still am VERY grateful for those who stuck up for me! I know you all say you care about CJ and that you are giving your honest opinion, but, COME ON!!!! THE VET SAID ALL WAS OKAY! But, you still continue to, in a way, threaten, saying that CJ may die, and her kitties too! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!?!?!? Put CJ in a carrier and WALK a few MILES to the nearest vet!?!?!? Yes! I did ask advice, and I'm starting to regret it! Next time, with such a "serious" problem, I will go straight to my vet, and ask her, as to avoid all this confusion, hurt, frightening words, so-called help and advice, and even anger.

However, thank-you to those who DID stand up for me, and DID understand my situation, and DID support me, and DID NOT scare me half to death! Thank-you! You deserve a hand!

 

[deb25]

Cassie,

Again, with all due respect, you came to this board and started this thread looking for help and answers. The members who have stepped up to answer your questions, based upon the information you have given, are experienced breeders. They are speaking from much expereince and giving the best answers they can without actually seeing CJ to evaluate her, which is why we ALWAYS, ALWAYS recommend having a vet SEE the animal. Remember that they are posting in reaction to your words, as well. You have claimed to have experience with pregnant cats and pretty much confirmed that she was ready to deliver. This is the assumption that anyone answering your questions has based their replies on.

 

[cjandbilly]

Originally Posted by Deb25

Cassie,

Again, with all due respect, you came to this board and started this thread looking for help and answers. The members who have stepped up to answer your questions, based upon the information you have given, are experienced breeders. They are speaking from much expereince and giving the best answers they can without actually seeing CJ to evaluate her, which is why we ALWAYS, ALWAYS recommend having a vet SEE the animal. Remember that they are posting in reaction to your words, as well. You have claimed to have experience with pregnant cats and pretty much confirmed that she was ready to deliver. This is the assumption that anyone answering your questions has based their replies on.

That doesn't mean they have to scare me when I tell them I can't get her to a vet.

 

[deb25]

Nobody is out to scare you. They are posting the truth as best as they can, based upon what you have told them.

 

[hissy]

Cassie,

Trust me when I say that I hope as well as many others that you have been mistaken at what you are seeing going on with CJ. No one is trying to scare you. No one is posting in UPPER CAPS OMG GET THIS CAT TO THE VET! You came here and asked us for help. No one twisted your arm to do so. Gaye, Sandie, Pat, Cindy all valued members and breeders have given you their advice based on what you have been posting. It is all we have to go on. No one is beating you up- a lot of times we post at the same time, saying the same thing without realizing it, so you think you are getting beat up which is not the intent.

I have said this in the past, and I will say it again. Just because a vet has his credentials hanging on the wall, does not mean he is a good vet. And yes, usually cats can give birth easily- unless they have been severely injured, but CJ is young, she is inbred and right there you have a formula for a warning to be safe about this. You have no idea of these two cats and how far back the line has already been inbred. That is why the warnings. Again, I hope all of us are just wrong in this. But if I were the kid, I would be insisting this cat go to a vet.

 

[sharky]

Cassie
I have necer seen a birth ... But I would read Hissy s last post carefully ... If I had listened to medical doc s I would have died when I was your age... Go with you gut ... I hope all is well with CJ and she has a lovely litter ... I am not wanting to scare you in any way just know drs sometimes arent always right they are human after all...
Sharky

 

[KittenKrazy]

Cassie, darlin', you cared enough the other night to pm me because you saw in my profile that I was a retired breeder and wanted my input. I know you love CJ, if not, you wouldn't have asked for our help. I cannot add anything to what hissy said, except for one thing......the advice that I gave you, and I think I can speak for Pat, Sandie and Gaye to (if not, they can flog me with something) when I tell you that the advice that we have passed on to you is the same advice that we would give each other, and even ourselves in the same situation. As for vets, hissy is right, as a matter of fact, I personally lost an already sold kitten due to an incompetent vet a couple of years ago, so I know they're out there too. {{HUGS}} to you hon, and I really do hope that all goes well with you and CJ, am praying for it, for that matter.

 

[cjandbilly]

Originally Posted by KittenKrazy

Cassie, darlin', you cared enough the other night to pm me because you saw in my profile that I was a retired breeder and wanted my input. I know you love CJ, if not, you wouldn't have asked for our help. I cannot add anything to what hissy said, except for one thing......the advice that I gave you, and I think I can speak for Pat, Sandie and Gaye to (if not, they can flog me with something) when I tell you that the advice that we have passed on to you is the same advice that we would give each other, and even ourselves in the same situation. As for vets, hissy is right, as a matter of fact, I personally lost an already sold kitten due to an incompetent vet a couple of years ago, so I know they're out there too. {{HUGS}} to you hon, and I really do hope that all goes well with you and CJ, am praying for it, for that matter.

Yes, I know. I did PM you. And I so very much appreciated your help. And I called the vet, I did all you said, and I thank-you very much. But after I said there was nothing more I could do, I was still told that CJ and her kittens might die if I didn't do more. That is what upset me, not the fact that you told me to begin with, but that I tried and tried, and I was accused of ignoring the advice I asked for, I was told not to trust the vet, because she might be wrong, but, all the vets might be wrong, and I was told that if I didn't get CJ to a vet, she would probably, along with her kittens, die. Like I said, I appreciated the advice, but, I think it went a step too far when people kept telling me and telling me and telling me that if I didn't get her to a vet, she could die, when I had already called the vet, and there was no way I could get her there, because my mom thinks I'm over reacting, and doesn't think CJ needs veterinary attention. That's what I'm upset about. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, but all this really hurt me, and frightened me a lot, and made me feel real insecure, and a horrible daughter, because I had to say over and over again, and explain over and over again, that my mom didn't feel CJ needed to go to a vet, which someone probably saw her as a bad pet owner, which she is not. I am not, however, going to apologize for defending myself.
I was told, by un-named, that the advice given here are for adults, and are not taken into consideration for anyone 18 and under, and that people aren't going to change their advice for any minor. I don't really think that's right. I know that most people on here are indeed adults. But teens can be cat lovers too. And teens can need advice too.
This all was overwhelming, and I really didn't need to be scared out of my mind.

 

[KittenKrazy]

Just a thought, Cassie, but has mom read this thread from start to finish?

 

[marge]

You know I find most of the time here, when people ask advise they are asking *here* cause they *don't want* to take the cat to the vet and are trying to avoid that, that's why they are online asking. So they might get upset. And yet most of the time going to a vet is what is needed. I'm not saying people are being bad pet owners, I'm just guessing by human nature. But you know if you said "my child has a discharge, what should I do?" most people would say "get her to a doctor" that is what happened here.

 

[hissy]

It has been determined by the mod of the forum that this thread will now be locked. It is headed in a direction that is no longer in keeping with the guidelines and so therefore it is closed.