Christian issues

[meowcat]

I work in a shelter, and some of the things that people do, to Cats, are appalling. We take Dogs too, but they are usually just a bit skinny, or in poor condition. But the Cats are treated with far more cruelty than Dogs are. Sometimes I think that God doesn't even like Cats. We get them shot, burned, broken, we had two, last month, whose tails had been tied together, and then they'd both been hung over a washing line, to fight. Not even for money or a bet, but just to enjoy the spectacle. What is the matter with people who do stuff like that? I hope Lord Jesus can bring them home too. I prayed for them also, that they might come to see the Lord one day, and repent of their sins.
I shouldn't really feel like this, but really I kinda hope whoever did that, is going to burn with the Devil! Those poor traumatised Cats. It was kids that done it.
Three kids, the oldest, was 19, and there was a 14 year old girl, and her 10 year old brother. They've done stuff like this before, but only on Rabbits. I know I cant do anything, and I mustn't Judge people, but if it was up to me, well! They'd get a little bit more punishment than a Supervision Order, and put in a "Care Home"! So I try to forgive them, but Lord, they make it so hard for me to do this. Makes me really cross! But they are in your hands Lord. They are your children too. Evil, delinquent children, but still yours. I just cant wait to see you punish them Lord. I dream of it. Amen.

 

[meowcat]

Originally Posted by Dolores

Are you really having your kitties put down after your death?

Isn't there a loved one who could take them?

There's my Birth Family, but I don't see them anymore, because they are not saved. And all of the people in our fellowship seem to have no time for animals, they spend a lot of time witnessing, and running study groups. But they say I'm not square enough with Jesus yet, not until I have been with the group a little longer. And I don't really want to take them back to the shelter. It wouldn't look good. And they don't know I've got the Cats. They think they were put to sleep. But now we are a little family of our own.

 

[tigerontheprowl]

Originally Posted by MeowCat

I work in a shelter, and some of the things that people do, to Cats, are appalling. We take Dogs too, but they are usually just a bit skinny, or in poor condition. But the Cats are treated with far more cruelty than Dogs are. Sometimes I think that God doesn't even like Cats. We get them shot, burned, broken, we had two, last month, whose tails had been tied together, and then they'd both been hung over a washing line, to fight. Not even for money or a bet, but just to enjoy the spectacle. What is the matter with people who do stuff like that? I hope Lord Jesus can bring them home too. I prayed for them also, that they might come to see the Lord one day, and repent of their sins.
I shouldn't really feel like this, but really I kinda hope whoever did that, is going to burn with the Devil! Those poor traumatised Cats. It was kids that done it.
Three kids, the oldest, was 19, and there was a 14 year old girl, and her 10 year old brother. They've done stuff like this before, but only on Rabbits. I know I cant do anything, and I mustn't Judge people, but if it was up to me, well! They'd get a little bit more punishment than a Supervision Order, and put in a "Care Home"! So I try to forgive them, but Lord, they make it so hard for me to do this. Makes me really cross! But they are in your hands Lord. They are your children too. Evil, delinquent children, but still yours. I just cant wait to see you punish them Lord. I dream of it. Amen.

Actually you can do something: Report them to the authorities. And talk to their parents. There's no guarantee it will do anything, but what do you have to lose?

 

[dusty's mom]

Originally Posted by MeowCat

Our Pastor and all our Elders, say the Lord is very clear on this, and that animals, having no souls, cannot pass into the Kingdom. They do not know sin, or thier creator, or good from evil, and they pass below.
But I'm not sure I want to go to Heaven if my pets can't come. I have even made arrangement in my Will, so my babies will be put painlessly to sleep, so they won't miss me. It would be such a wasted effort if they cannot be with me in Heaven.

All religion is simply MAN'S interpretation of something no one can either prove or disprove. That is why what we believe must be based on faith and not proven fact. I personally believe that animals do have souls as well as the ability to think cognitively. I've observed this in my own pets as well as in many animal stories I've seen and read about. I could site some examples, but like religion, you are free to place your own interpretation on them.

 

[laureen227]

Originally Posted by ifoster

They were in the garden of Eden but they didn't sin, still they were cast out. They cannot accept Christ as savior.

they wouldn't need to - they are without sin. Jesus came to atone for the sins of man.

Originally Posted by ifoster

In revelation it talks about the animals that are praising God and about Jesus coming back on a white horse. I beleive they do go to heaven as I would think that God would want all his creatures with him as He loves them all.

i agree with this.

 

[dusty's mom]

Originally Posted by TigerOnTheProwl

Personally, I don't believe in Christianity or any religion for that matter, but that doesn't stop me from believing that people will be reunited with their lost loved ones, be them human or animal. Just because someone tells you something doesn't mean that you can't also believe something else. I'm not talking about worshiping another God or anything like that, but just believing in some of your own ideas and beliefs instead of only believing what people tell you to believe.

Well said. Despite their claims to the contrary, no human being can say with absolute certainty that any particular religion trumps any other religion. It is all a matter of interpretation of written historical documents, and believe it or not, all major religions base their beliefs on some form of written document, written centuries ago, with no living witnesses to verify to dispel the accuracy of the documents.

 

[mrblanche]

Originally Posted by MeowCat

But they say I'm not square enough with Jesus yet, not until I have been with the group a little longer.

Just a word to the wise...this is a controlling behavior, and something that would concern me.

Last time I checked, Jesus isn't talking in person to anyone on this earth, so I wonder how anyone else could judge how "square" I am with him, or anyone else.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[mrblanche]

Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom

Despite their claims to the contrary, no human being can say with absolute certainty that any particular religion trumps any other religion.

Going to Twain again:

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste."

Mark Twain, in "The Lowest Animal"

 

[addiebee]

Originally Posted by mrblanche

Going to Twain again:

"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste."

Mark Twain, in "The Lowest Animal"

Great quote, Mike.

To Meowcat - I thought Jesus and the Lord were loving, forgiving entities? (I am not the least bit religious so you will have to forgive me on this.) I do not understand why you would get involved with a religious denomination that would hammer home these points to you about your beloved animals? Theirs - as others have said - seem to be just ONE interpretation of G-d's word. Who is to say they are correct? As mrblanche noted, this sounds punitive and controlling to me. Please be careful.

 

[calico2222]

Originally Posted by MeowCat

There's my Birth Family, but I don't see them anymore, because they are not saved. And all of the people in our fellowship seem to have no time for animals, they spend a lot of time witnessing, and running study groups. But they say I'm not square enough with Jesus yet, not until I have been with the group a little longer. And I don't really want to take them back to the shelter. It wouldn't look good. And they don't know I've got the Cats. They think they were put to sleep. But now we are a little family of our own.

Ok, this really bothers me. You don't see your birth family because they aren't saved? Maybe I misunderstood that. I really hope so.

Anyway, back to your original question....I asked my pastor after our family dog died when I was 12 if animals go to heaven. He said "would it be paradise if he WASN'T there?" No. He went on to explain that no one actually knows what heaven is like and if anyone does than he's lying or we're in big trouble. In his opinion, if my dog was important enough to me on earth, he will be waiting in heaven. Same with my cats. They will all be there and I will be covered in kisses, licked and kneaded until I'm begging for mercy and I'll love every minute of it!

 

[laureen227]

Originally Posted by calico2222

Ok, this really bothers me. You don't see your birth family because they aren't saved? Maybe I misunderstood that. I really hope so.

if you aren't around, showing/leading by example, how will they ever know the joy you feel in your faith [& if you aren't feeling joy, there's something wrong, btw].

i had one of my favorite compliments given to me by a non-believer. both of us were cast in a show. she was a newspaper writer - wrote for the entertainment section. she'd originally auditioned as experience for an article, but the director wanted to cast her, & she accepted.

during auditions, she interviewed several of her fellow auditioners, myself among them, asking why we chose to audition for that show, what was the experience like for us, etc. the show was Godspell, which is almost literally the book of Matthew. i told her that one of the reasons i wanted to be cast was because of my faith.

after we closed, many of the cast members gave little remembrances to each other [a tradition, at least here locally] & hers came with a card, saying that my behavior, attitude, & such had given her cause to think perhaps she should revisit her ideas about religion, Christianity, and the Savior.

to this day, it's my most treasured remembrance, after many, many shows, because it proved to me that our preacher is right when he says that we sometimes need a human being to be 'Jesus with skin on'. you need to be that for your loved ones, both blood relatives and friends. we are the salt of the earth [Matthew 5:13]- but the salt must be mixed amongst the unsalted to be useful to others.

 

[ut0pia]

I am not sure what the OP was asking ...
Maybe this is because I dont' believe in any religion, but I feel like there is nothing we can do for her in terms of advice

We can tell her animals DO go to heaven, like others have quoted very convincing bible passages, but her church doesn't agree, and how likely is she listen to us if it's her church that's controlling what she does and doesn't believe in??
I know some churches are like that, it's not even about what is in the bible sometimes, but rather in order to escape sin or damnation, you must listen to the priest and take his word as the law regardless of what's written in the bible.
So I am just confused about what advice to give, the only advice I can give is leave this church if you don't agree with their interpretation and find one that is closer to your own beliefs.

 

[ut0pia]

Originally Posted by mrblanche

"Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, your dog would get in, and you would stay out." --Mark Twain

Wow I love that quote!!! Sooooo true!! And fits this topic perfectly!!
Personally I think based on what I know of the christian religion, animals should by default go to heaven because they don't need "saving" by Jesus- they're already pure and without sin.

 

[missymotus]

Originally Posted by ut0pia

So I am just confused about what advice to give, the only advice I can give is leave this church if you don't agree with their interpretation and find one that is closer to your own beliefs.

I'm not religious either so to me it seems pretty simple, if you don't agree with their teachings find another church or group that does. Especially when you can't even be your true self, you say they think you've had the cats put down. Surely they value honesty....

 

[ifoster]

I would problably find a new church if I were you. They remind me of the pharisies(sp?)

! The people in your fellowship should have time for animals, God told us to take care of them!! And the only way your birth family will come to know Christ is if someone tells them and shows them.

 

[catkiki]

Originally Posted by MeowCat

There's my Birth Family, but I don't see them anymore, because they are not saved. And all of the people in our fellowship seem to have no time for animals, they spend a lot of time witnessing, and running study groups. But they say I'm not square enough with Jesus yet, not until I have been with the group a little longer. And I don't really want to take them back to the shelter. It wouldn't look good. And they don't know I've got the Cats. They think they were put to sleep. But now we are a little family of our own.

Originally Posted by calico2222

Ok, this really bothers me. You don't see your birth family because they aren't saved? Maybe I misunderstood that. I really hope so.

Anyway, back to your original question....I asked my pastor after our family dog died when I was 12 if animals go to heaven. He said "would it be paradise if he WASN'T there?" No. He went on to explain that no one actually knows what heaven is like and if anyone does than he's lying or we're in big trouble. In his opinion, if my dog was important enough to me on earth, he will be waiting in heaven. Same with my cats. They will all be there and I will be covered in kisses, licked and kneaded until I'm begging for mercy and I'll love every minute of it!

Originally Posted by ifoster

I would problably find a new church if I were you. They remind me of the pharisies(sp?)

! The people in your fellowship should have time for animals, God told us to take care of them!! And the only way your birth family will come to know Christ is if someone tells them and shows them.

OK, like the others have said, this concerns me too that you do not have contact with your family because they are not saved. My in-laws are not saved but we still associate with them. We pray for them. You lead by example and not by avoidance. The fact that they will send you for some type of re-education concerns me to. Any church that separates you from your family is a cult in my humble opinion. The Commandments say to honor your mother and father. How can you do that without talking to them? This is NOT Biblical!!!!!

I did speak to one of my pastors yesterday, and he said that the Bible does not specifically state whether or not our animals will be in heaven. But he said that God wants his people to be happy and if our animals are what make us happy, then they should be there.

I encourage you to find another church that allows you to question things you do not understand instead of demanding you to blindly follow their beliefs or suffer the consequences.

 

[tigerontheprowl]

If you don't see your family because they are not religious like you, I think you are taking your faith a bit too seriously and I think you have a problem. It sounds to me like you are treating Christianity more like a cult than a religion. And yes, there is a difference. Members of a religion believe in something, members or a cult are religion extremists. Nothing is wrong with being religious, but being and extremist is a problem.

More people have been divided by religion than anything else. Don't let it divide your family too.

 

[pookie-poo]

Originally Posted by Catkiki

I did speak to one of my pastors yesterday, and he said that the Bible does not specifically state whether or not our animals will be in heaven. But he said that God wants his people to be happy and if our animals are what make us happy, then they should be there.

I want to join this church! A pastor who believes as I believe!

 

[howtoholdacat]

Originally Posted by mrblanche

Just a word to the wise...this is a controlling behavior, and something that would concern me.

Last time I checked, Jesus isn't talking in person to anyone on this earth, so I wonder how anyone else could judge how "square" I am with him, or anyone else.

Just my two cents worth.

I rather agree. Some of the things you've said concern me for you. You seem to have given your church a lot of authority over the way you think. Be careful, my own understanding of the Bible has changed through the years as I've matured and experienced different things. I'm suspect of anyone who says they've got it all pinned down.

As to animals in heaven, I can't really say. I personally think they'll be there but Biblically I can neither prove nor disprove it. I suspect though that after all the work God probably did to create Friday (my oldest cat) that He'd rather not let all that effort go to waste. Too much personality in one feline to vanish forever!

 

[tico]

Originally Posted by Catkiki

OK, like the others have said, this concerns me too that you do not have contact with your family because they are not saved. My in-laws are not saved but we still associate with them. We pray for them. You lead by example and not by avoidance. The fact that they will send you for some type of re-education concerns me to. Any church that separates you from your family is a cult in my humble opinion. The Commandments say to honor your mother and father. How can you do that without talking to them? This is NOT Biblical!!!!!

I did speak to one of my pastors yesterday, and he said that the Bible does not specifically state whether or not our animals will be in heaven. But he said that God wants his people to be happy and if our animals are what make us happy, then they should be there.

I encourage you to find another church that allows you to question things you do not understand instead of demanding you to blindly follow their beliefs or suffer the consequences.

I agree 100%.

These things your church is instructing you to do are NOT biblical. No single man speaks for God, but His Word alone. We are not to put any man on par, let alone above the word of God, which is why it is so important to know it in your heart! If something your pastor or an elder is telling contradicts scripture, it falls to God's Word each and every time. What makes it trickier, is that people will take biblical passages out of context to defend their opinions. If you do not know the word of God, you will be easily swayed by others false understandings. It doesn't matter if they are clergy or not. Anyone can call themselves a pastor or an elder, however that does not mean that they have God's heart, if they use that title to twist scripture to fit what they want.

Their view on segregation is unscriptural:
2 Timothy 2v24-26: And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

1 Peter 3v15: But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

Their view on not asking questions is unscriptural:
Acts 17v10-11: Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.


This church is highly suspect in my mind. I would encourage you to find a church that teaches the entire Word of God, and does not elevate any man to speak for it in any sort of private interpretation. That is the basis for your typical cult.

2 Peter 1v20-1
...knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (these holy men being foremost those who penned the inerrant Word of God)