Canned/Freeze Dried Raw.... Litter box and Puking Issues.

[lisahe]

Sweet potatoes are lower on the glycemic index, (better for humans who are diabetic than white potato - like my mom, whose diabetic, can eat SP vs white potatoes), but that's humans, I agree, those ingredients are way too starchy for our feline friends.

Hmm.... re peas.  I'm concerned now about the peas in NVI ...... although I pick them out but still .... hmm....

When I contacted Weruva to ask about the Steak Frites which uses potato starch but also had chunks of what looked like regular white potato, I was told they use "white sweet potatoes" which would be  yams, which are white. I did a quick search and found that yams are supposed to be less starchy than regular sweet potatoes.

So difficult to find a decent low starch food, carrageenan-free and ideally guar gum free food, esp for me since my cats can't eat chicken. 

And there's the thing: carbs gets horribly complicated because of their simple and complex versions! (My mother was a dietition for years so I was brought up with some of this stuff and still am stuck in the old lingo.)

I guess what's most important is that all three of these veggies are high-carb, so not really good for cats. (I had meant to say "not good" above in parens...) Somewhere, long ago, I read a good article about carbs and gas in cats... But of course I don't remember where I found it.

Anyway, here's to healthy, happy cats and people in 2016!

 

[sophie1]

My cats are typically 100% raw fed, and their poop has absolutely no odor when I they eat only raw, whether fresh or freeze-dried, and irrespective of fat content.  When fed standard canned or dry food, they both get bulkier, stinky poop.  I have "thresholded" to figure out how much junk food it takes to trigger the stink:  it's 1/8 cup of Orijen or a quarter of a 5.5 oz can or half a 3 oz can each day.  Oddly enough, the poop stink issue happens regardless of the food quality - doesn't matter if it's Friskies or Weruva.  ] I don't see the point of paying exorbitant prices for high quality canned when it's still not as good as their raw, so for canned I just stick with the McDonald's equivalent fare for dire emergencies (hungry cat, nothing defrosted) or special treat only. 

If you're looking to supplement raw for reasons of convenience, I'd suggest buying high quality canned and trying the probiotics.  Or, consider Honest Kitchen.  It's reasonably priced, and even though it contains a good amount of potato and pumpkin it's no worse than most canned brands.  My cats can eat any amount of it and they will not get stinky poop.  The trick is to find out if your cats will eat it.

As far as the throwing up goes...if you mean regurgitating rather than throwing up, it may simply be that the cat in question is wolfing down the food too fast.  Try getting him to slow down, e.g. by feeding smaller portions, spreading the food out on a cookie sheet, or putting golf balls or small upside down bowls in the food dish.

 

[nora1]

I feed 100% raw and my cat's poop doesn't stink, even when it's fresh! I highly recommend feeding 100% raw. You can even buy pre-made raw, all the you do is thaw it and serve it. Cats are carnivores and don't need carbs/fruits/veggies. My cat always threw up kibble and  had nasty poop on canned, so I switched. 

Regarding the throw up, it could be an allergy. My cat has many allergies and would always throw up if it contained an allergen. However, weekly throw up is not normal. Long haired cats need to be groomed. That will also cut down on the throw up. You can also add fish oil to the food to help cats smoothly eliminate hair balls. 

I would cut out the kibble for sure to see if that makes a difference. As far as a late night snack, I feed either a chicken wing or neck before bed, that way she's not pawing my face at 5am for breakfast

 

[paiger8]

Thanks for all the helpful tips! For now I cut out the nightly kibble, and am giving a couple tablespoons of either canned or a bit of freeze dried raw before bed. I did cut out the Duck Duck Goose for now, just to see if that was a contributing factor. I haven't smelled anything super poopy in a few days, but I may just not have been down there at the right moment.

I'm also attempting to figure out if my male cat is allergic to something. I grabbed a couple bags of Stella and Chewy's (Chicken and Turkey,) to in addition to their regular Primal. I'm starting with feeding just Turkey and then am going to slowly add in the other foods to see if something triggers it. I haven't seen any puking since Tuesday, but I do work all day so it's possible that he puked and ate it. UGH! 

 

I will report back if I figure anything out. 

 

[paiger8]

UPDATE (also gross 2nd problem):

So it's been over a week and no cat puke! And I have not noticed any particularly pungent litter box activity. (I haven't been around during a BM though.) But still happy so far! Still early, but fingers crossed. I cut out the Merrick kibble completely. They've eaten Stella & Chewy's (both chicken and turkey,) Primal's Turkey and Wellness Canned (both Chicken and Turkey.) I was planning on introducing the Primal's Chicken and Salmon again next week (I thought maybe fish was the issue with the male puking, we'll see.) I also added more FD Raw as their bedtime snack instead of kibble. So I'd say they're on 65% FD raw, 35% canned right now.

Unfortunately, I think this has led to another problem. I thought about starting a new thread in behavior but I'm pretty sure this is due to food changes. Someone is pooping outside the box.

I'm not sure which cat it is, as I was sleeping or at work. It's only happened twice (yesterday and today.) The first poop was on the stairs, it looked like someone possibly had a piece of poop stuck in their butt, and scooted on the stairs to get it off. Left skid marks and a tiny bit of poop.The second time was tonight, and there was one piece of skinny hard poop on my dining room rug. No "skid marks" from scooting, just laying there. I don't think it's behavioral, because it wasn't like a little stack of poop like in their litterbox. Just one (very skinny) piece. Like maybe someone forgot that they were mid pooping and left the box? 

 They've never had an accident before. 

I went through their poop in the litter box with gloves on last night and tonight. Also checked their bottoms. Noticed one cat's poop is chocolate brown and normal, one is light brown and very hard. No signs of worms that I can see. They're also 100% indoor. I'm totally fine with taking them to the vet, but I thought I'd try and figure out what's wrong first. 

I already ordered a probiotic (will be here Monday,) and I added a little pumpkin in their canned food snack tonight. Any suggestions? I've never had a cat poop outside the box before. Could the increase in FD raw lead to this? What would cause one's poop to be regular and one to be light colored and hard? Constipation? Impacted anal glands? Something else?

 

[missmimz]

 
UPDATE (also gross 2nd problem):

So it's been over a week and no cat puke! And I have not noticed any particularly pungent litter box activity. (I haven't been around during a BM though.) But still happy so far! Still early, but fingers crossed. I cut out the Merrick kibble completely. They've eaten Stella & Chewy's (both chicken and turkey,) Primal's Turkey and Wellness Canned (both Chicken and Turkey.) I was planning on introducing the Primal's Chicken and Salmon again next week (I thought maybe fish was the issue with the male puking, we'll see.) I also added more FD Raw as their bedtime snack instead of kibble. So I'd say they're on 65% FD raw, 35% canned right now.

Unfortunately, I think this has led to another problem. I thought about starting a new thread in behavior but I'm pretty sure this is due to food changes. Someone is pooping outside the box.

I'm not sure which cat it is, as I was sleeping or at work. It's only happened twice (yesterday and today.) The first poop was on the stairs, it looked like someone possibly had a piece of poop stuck in their butt, and scooted on the stairs to get it off. Left skid marks and a tiny bit of poop.The second time was tonight, and there was one piece of skinny hard poop on my dining room rug. No "skid marks" from scooting, just laying there. I don't think it's behavioral, because it wasn't like a little stack of poop like in their litterbox. Just one (very skinny) piece. Like maybe someone forgot that they were mid pooping and left the box? 

 They've never had an accident before. 

I went through their poop in the litter box with gloves on last night and tonight. Also checked their bottoms. Noticed one cat's poop is chocolate brown and normal, one is light brown and very hard. No signs of worms that I can see. They're also 100% indoor. I'm totally fine with taking them to the vet, but I thought I'd try and figure out what's wrong first. 

I already ordered a probiotic (will be here Monday,) and I added a little pumpkin in their canned food snack tonight. Any suggestions? I've never had a cat poop outside the box before. Could the increase in FD raw lead to this? What would cause one's poop to be regular and one to be light colored and hard? Constipation? Impacted anal glands? Something else?

Their poo doesn't sound abnormal to me. Sometimes one of mine will scoot when they have a little soft stool, which can happen with food changes and is usually temporary. How many litter boxes do you have? Any chance its happening because the box is full? Did you happen to scoop less than usual due to a busy schedule? 

 

[paiger8]

@missmimz  Nope, I clean once or twice a day. I had just cleaned it at like 10pm last night.  I checked the litter boxes when I got home and there was only 2 poops and some pee in them. And I added new litter last night also. So they're very clean. 3 litter boxes, but they rarely use one of them. No change in litter or anything. The poop was no where near the litter boxes though. 

I haven't paid that close of attention to their poop before, but the dry, light brown poop was different. It may just be due to cutting out the kibble and adding more FD. 

 

[lisamarie12]

 
UPDATE (also gross 2nd problem):

So it's been over a week and no cat puke! And I have not noticed any particularly pungent litter box activity. (I haven't been around during a BM though.) But still happy so far! Still early, but fingers crossed. I cut out the Merrick kibble completely. They've eaten Stella & Chewy's (both chicken and turkey,) Primal's Turkey and Wellness Canned (both Chicken and Turkey.) I was planning on introducing the Primal's Chicken and Salmon again next week (I thought maybe fish was the issue with the male puking, we'll see.) I also added more FD Raw as their bedtime snack instead of kibble. So I'd say they're on 65% FD raw, 35% canned right now.

Unfortunately, I think this has led to another problem. I thought about starting a new thread in behavior but I'm pretty sure this is due to food changes. Someone is pooping outside the box.

I'm not sure which cat it is, as I was sleeping or at work. It's only happened twice (yesterday and today.) The first poop was on the stairs, it looked like someone possibly had a piece of poop stuck in their butt, and scooted on the stairs to get it off. Left skid marks and a tiny bit of poop.The second time was tonight, and there was one piece of skinny hard poop on my dining room rug. No "skid marks" from scooting, just laying there. I don't think it's behavioral, because it wasn't like a little stack of poop like in their litterbox. Just one (very skinny) piece. Like maybe someone forgot that they were mid pooping and left the box? 

 They've never had an accident before. 

I went through their poop in the litter box with gloves on last night and tonight. Also checked their bottoms. Noticed one cat's poop is chocolate brown and normal, one is light brown and very hard. No signs of worms that I can see. They're also 100% indoor. I'm totally fine with taking them to the vet, but I thought I'd try and figure out what's wrong first. 

I already ordered a probiotic (will be here Monday,) and I added a little pumpkin in their canned food snack tonight. Any suggestions? I've never had a cat poop outside the box before. Could the increase in FD raw lead to this? What would cause one's poop to be regular and one to be light colored and hard? Constipation? Impacted anal glands? Something else?

Hey there Paiger8,  I'm glad to hear the vomiting issue seems to have been resolved, that is good news! 

Re: eliminating outside the box, I has this problem briefly with Mikey a couple years ago when he was on all raw with ground bone, it turned out he was constipated.  He just couldn't "do it" inside the box, when relief finally came, he was caught off guard, outside the box.   It wasn't deliberate or behavioral.  The poop was also dry and hard (actually he had a little blood mixed in). 

Anyway, pumpkin is a good idea and the probiotic will help also.   If any of the cats had impacted anal glands, you would likely know it as the glands tend to visibly protrude, kitties lick their behinds a lot and obsess with that area.

As far as color, sometimes it's just related to the meat - red meats tend to lead to darker stools, lighter meats, lighter colored stools, etc.   It may be that one cat is eating more of one food than another although you mentioned you were feeding chicken / turkey. Aren't the Wellness canned formulas slightly darker in color? I know when I fed SC the stool is light in color (I do SC turkey occasionally.) I wouldn't worry too much about the color although you may want to check for signs of blood since there may be a constipation issue.

I'm sure it'll get resolved - so far it sounds like there's improvement, despite the outside the box elimination problem.

 

[paiger8]

 
Re: eliminating outside the box, I has this problem briefly with Mikey a couple years ago when he was on all raw with ground bone, it turned out he was constipated.  He just couldn't "do it" inside the box, when relief finally came, he was caught off guard, outside the box.   It wasn't deliberate or behavioral.  The poop was also dry and hard (actually he had a little blood mixed in). 

Anyway, pumpkin is a good idea and the probiotic will help also.   If any of the cats had impacted anal glands, you would likely know it as the glands tend to visibly protrude, kitties lick their behinds a lot and obsess with that area.

As far as color, sometimes it's just related to the meat - red meats tend to lead to darker stools, lighter meats, lighter colored stools, etc.   It may be that one cat is eating more of one food than another although you mentioned you were feeding chicken / turkey. Aren't the Wellness canned formulas slightly darker in color? I know when I fed SC the stool is light in color (I do SC turkey occasionally.) I wouldn't worry too much about the color although you may want to check for signs of blood since there may be a constipation issue.

I'm sure it'll get resolved - so far it sounds like there's improvement, despite the outside the box elimination problem.

Thanks so much! Your issue with Mickey sounds a lot like what is probably happening. They both seem normal (no excessive licking) and boxes are clean so I was guessing someone was just constipated. The male often finishes his sister's plate (though they're fed the same food) so he may be eating more bone than she is leading to constipation. I'm not actually sure which one is doing it, but that makes sense.

The Wellness canned is a little darker, so that may be the case. 

Thanks for your input! I'm such a neat freak, I immediately freaked a little when I saw the poop outside the box. I've had cats that urinated outside the box before, and I was just picturing dealing with that nightmare again. (But honestly pooping is easier cleanup!

) 

I'm glad it's most likely something super simple! 

 

[lisahe]

I'm also glad to hear the barfing has stopped! That's such great news. And LisaMarie12 beat me to it again: my guess for your cat thinking outside the box would also be constipation. Is Stella & Chewy's new to your cats? (Or has it increased in their diet?) It tends to have a fair bit of bone and I seem to recall someone mentioning their cats got constipated from it. We've found occasional little, hmm, turds outside the box and I suspect the cause is something similar. 

We get similar color changes in the box with our cats, too. (And you and I tend to feed a lot of the same foods so I'm not surprised!)

 

[lisamarie12]

 Thanks for your input! I'm such a neat freak, I immediately freaked a little when I saw the poop outside the box. I've had cats that urinated outside the box before, and I was just picturing dealing with that nightmare again. (But honestly pooping is easier cleanup!

) 
I'm glad it's most likely something super simple! 

Only if you begin to see a pattern of eliminating outside the box, that would be an issue - then the first thought would be medical but otherwise, I'm sure it'll be okay.  With Mikey, it was an isolated incident, just happened once.

 

[lisamarie12]

 
Is Stella & Chewy's new to your cats? (Or has it increased in their diet?) It tends to have a fair bit of bone and I seem to recall someone mentioning their cats got constipated from it. We've found occasional little, hmm, turds outside the box and I suspect the cause is something similar. 

 I think I'm going permanently withdraw FD raw with bone from the cats' diet - I already took Mikey off thawed raw w/ bone and we're just using Rad Cat but the FD that I use occasionally as well.  It's too bad there isn't a company out there that makes FD raw with eggshell powder instead of bone.

 

[paiger8]

lisahe Yes the amount of S&C's is new. They were getting just a bit mixed in with their Primal before to mix it up a bit. But now we're doing full Stella & Chewy's meals, in addition to Primal. I prefer Primal, I was just trying to add a second FD source just in case.

 

[lisahe]

@LisaHE Yes the amount of S&C's is new. They were getting just a bit mixed in with their Primal before to mix it up a bit. But now we're doing full Stella & Chewy's meals, in addition to Primal. I prefer Primal, I was just trying to add a second FD source just in case.

I wonder if that might be what's causing it: I think S&C does have a fair bit of bone in it. I don't feed very much of it to our cats (just two or three little pieces in each of their Primal meals) because their poops are pretty firm as it is...

I also wish I had another FD food source. Nature's Variety is super-expensive and the cats haven't liked any of their foods very much anyway! Some of the other FD or dehydrated foods--Honest Kitchen and Sojo--are very carby.

 

[paiger8]

Well... I spoke too soon. He puked last night, which was about 7 hours since his last meal. So it wasn't a scarf & barf. It wasn't a ton of puke, but still a bit. Currently only eating S&C's Chicken and Turkey, Primal Turkey, and Wellness Grain Free  canned (Turkey & Chicken.)

The Wellness does have Sweet Potatoes in it (just no white potato) so I'm going to cut that out for a few weeks and see if that helps at all. He didn't puke at all in the 5 days he was eating 100% FD (which doesn't have any potato), but that may have been a coincidence. I'm going to go grab some Merrick's cans tomorrow, from what I can see online they don't contain any potato or sweet potato in the Pate flavors.

Just started the probiotic this morning as well.

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Why do they put so much crap in cat food? 

OH, PS. I did go check the litter box right after a "deposit" and I couldn't smell anything! Woohoo. So the smell had to be due to the kibble OR the S&C Duck Duck Goose. One problem solved. 

 

 

[lisahe]

 
Well... I spoke too soon. He puked last night, which was about 7 hours since his last meal. So it wasn't a scarf & barf. It wasn't a ton of puke, but still a bit. Currently only eating S&C's Chicken and Turkey, Primal Turkey, and Wellness Grain Free  canned (Turkey & Chicken.)

The Wellness does have Sweet Potatoes in it (just no white potato) so I'm going to cut that out for a few weeks and see if that helps at all. He didn't puke at all in the 5 days he was eating 100% FD (which doesn't have any potato), but that may have been a coincidence. I'm going to go grab some Merrick's cans tomorrow, from what I can see online they don't contain any potato or sweet potato in the Pate flavors.

Just started the probiotic this morning as well.

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Why do they put so much crap in cat food? 

OH, PS. I did go check the litter box right after a "deposit" and I couldn't smell anything! Woohoo. So the smell had to be due to the kibble OR the S&C Duck Duck Goose. One problem solved. 

 

Looking on the bright side, I'm glad the litter box smell is gone! That's good.

But the barf, oopsy! I'm very sorry to hear about that. I'd also suspect the Wellness first: beyond the sweet potato it has carrots, too, as well as squash (what kind, i wonder?!) carrageenan, which I remember several members saying caused problems for their cats. I don't seem to recall that those foods used to have that many vegetables but may just be delusional! These are the ones that are now called "Complete Health," right? (These?) It looks like they've renamed a lot of their foods. And yes, they do put a lot of crap into their foods! Pretty much all of them seem to.

Are you thinking of trying the Merrick LID foods? Our cats really like the duck and turkey (they already get lots of chicken so I haven't fed them that one) and they don't have any carrageenan or carby vegetables. They do have alfalfa meal but apparently only in small amounts. The cats have been eating the Merrick LID for a few months now and continue to enjoy it and do well on it. And I like that it's reasonably priced! They also seem to like Bravo's new canned foods: they've tried and really liked two now (chicken fricassee and duck/turkey dinner glop, a soft pate) so I bought a few cans each for their rotation. They just have some parsley and dandelion greens (emulating weed-eating outdoor cats, I guess?

) and the thickener is agar-agar instead of carrageenan or a gum. They run around $2.00/can. They smell pretty meaty.

It sounds like you have a barfing problem like we do with Edwina: she's pretty much stopped since we've figured things out (potato is bad, don't let her stomach get too empty or too full, etc.) but I admit my own human error can cause problems if I slip from the feeding schedule!

I hope the food switch helps!

 

[paiger8]

@LisaHE  - Yep, those are the cans of Wellness I've been feeding. 

I am planning on trying the Merrick LID foods. I'm hoping the lack of Carrageenan and potato fixes the problem. It's really hard to find a Pate food without Carrageenan, so hopefully they like those. I will check out the Bravo also.

 Fingers crossed that this works. 

 

[sophie1]

Sorry to hear about the puke!  7 hours is definitely vomiting not regurgitation.   There are a lot of reasons besides food for a cat to throw up...if it were one of my cats I'd worry about having swallowed a toy or maybe choking on a mouthful of hair after an energetic wrestling session.  One of my cats tends to chew toys and has swallowed a few...one led to a bowel obstruction and a $5K emergency surgery, another required a midnight ER visit to induce vomiting, and another time I found a chewed up mouse toy in a puddle of vomit.  I have to be so careful about their toys; about 90% of the stuff sold in Petco is just not safe!

About the poop issue...Are your cats long-haired?

Single poops on the floor are usually because the poop got stuck in their fur on the way out, and shook loose only after the cat left the litter box.  The diet change could have been enough to make the poop a bit more sticky than usual.  This will resolve with time if you continue with what you're doing.  In the meantime, try combing their butt fur or using a Furminator there to thin it out.  Or you could use an electric clipper if your cat will tolerate it. 

 

[betha]

On occasion, one of my cats will throw up if the food is too cold 

Another one of my cats will throw up if he eats too much freeze dried raw.  Mine don't like it hydrated so I'll just give him small pieces every blue moon.  If he eats more than 1/2 of one, I think it starts to expand from the moisture in his stomach (at least that's my theory).