Please read the BYB link. These are not valid documents. What do you not get?
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Breed Vs Purebred
- Thread starter Willowy
- Start Date
You mean this link?
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/52744/accident-or-backyard-breeding
It does a good job of describing the difference between a good breeder and a bad breeder, but I still don't understand how registering a name (no inspection, no qualifications to meet) turns a bad breeder into an acceptable breeder.
But if I can register my cattery and my kittens without anyone coming to see what I'm actually doing, what prevents me from running a kitten mill, registering the kittens and getting valid documents, which I then provide to pet stores?
There seems to be no oversight of any of this, no quality control checks, no real system of checks and balances to prevent abuse of the registration process.
I know this sounds like I'm arguing for argument's sake, but I'm really not.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #44
What makes them not valid? What stops someone from buying registered kittens from a breeder who doesn't spay/neuter before sale , breeding them, and selling their (registered) kittens to pet stores? Nothing.
Here is a link to CFA which explains the standards their members adhere to. http://www.cfa.org/Client/home.aspx You could also google TICA.
CFA/TICA are the ONLY cat registries for US breeders. These members are dedicated professionals who do not take this lightly. There are checks and balances. CFA has only been around since what, 1909? Being a member of either organization is a good indicator that a particular breeder is not going to abuse the registration process. Why would they?
Did you see the pedigree documents I posted? Do you really think this particular CFA/TICA registered breeder does't know a thing or two about lineage and breeding? BTW, Manx are particularly difficult to breed. BYBs are breeding horribly disfugured and crippled cats because they know zilch about breeding. These 'Manx" are showing up in shelters because they get dumped off after the owner realizes the care involved.
The CFA is in the process of adopting stricter policies for it's members including inspections. There are NO CFA/TICA breeders that I am remotely aware of that would ever do business through a pet store. These are BYB who are producing fake documents. Therefore they are not purebred animals.
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Now I see why the breeders on this forum are so frustrated. Some folks have to prove they are right, even though overwhelming evidence proves to the contrary. And facts presented by pros are countered with arguments from novices and suggestions that the response is mean or snarky.
If you read the BYB link, reputable breeders rarely make a profit. They do it for the love and enhancement of the breed.
If you read the BYB link, reputable breeders rarely make a profit. They do it for the love and enhancement of the breed.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #48
Not everyone with a registered, unaltered cat is a dedicated professional who cares about their breed or even their individual cat. Money can be a powerful motivator. If you wish to believe that every single person with a registered cat is an upright, moral person, great. But there are no requirements, currently no inspections (and when they do happen, I bet it'll only be for people who register more than a certain number of kittens per year), all ethical standards are optional, and, well, it happens :dk:
I would like to see some actual proof of what you say.
I would like to see some actual proof of what you say.
I am not trying to prove anything. I would like the breeders in this forum to answer my question about how registering a cattery ensures that the breeder I choose is responsible and not a backyard breeder in it for the money. Some people have asserted this and I simply want clarification and elaboration. I'm not looking to incite an argument.
Didn't we have a discussion once about how people who aren't actually breeders keep trying to answer questions on this forum? And how it just muddies the water?
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Willow, please read both the TICA/CFA website. You are very mistaken in the facts you are spinning.Not everyone with a registered, unaltered cat is a dedicated professional who cares about their breed or even their individual cat. Money can be a powerful motivator. If you wish to believe that every single person with a registered cat is an upright, moral person, great. But there are no requirements, currently no inspections (and when they do happen, I bet it'll only be for people who register more than a certain number of kittens per year), all ethical standards are optional, and, well, it happens
I would like to see some actual proof of what you say.
There are 2 US registries, TICA/ CFA. Those are the ONLY Registers in the US, and likewise you do not get a registered purebred outside of these registries.
In your example that cat would not be a registered cat, there for not a purebred.
How many times in this thread does this fact have to be repeated???
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Breeders and professionals alike have posted ad nauseum on this thread the answers to your questions.
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Seems like a lot of incorrect information is being decimated on this forum regarding Purebred Cats...
Hopefully this link will clear up any confusion and allow posters an opportunity to engage in intelligent dialog armed with facts before decimating blatantly false and misleading information on the topic of purebreds in the Breeder's Forum:
http://cats.about.com/od/catbreeds/a/what-breed-is-your-cat.htm
Do your homework. Familiarize yourself with the various cat breeds. Then ask yourself two questions:
The most important thing, of course, that no matter what you call him, you love him unconditionally, regardless of his breed or heritage.
Hopefully this link will clear up any confusion and allow posters an opportunity to engage in intelligent dialog armed with facts before decimating blatantly false and misleading information on the topic of purebreds in the Breeder's Forum:
http://cats.about.com/od/catbreeds/a/what-breed-is-your-cat.htm
So -- What Breed is my Cat?
Do your homework. Familiarize yourself with the various cat breeds. Then ask yourself two questions:
- What breed does he most resemble?
- Do I have a registry and pedigree for this cat?
The most important thing, of course, that no matter what you call him, you love him unconditionally, regardless of his breed or heritage.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #53
Say someone in the U.S. has a "Persian". Flat face, long fur, the works. He has a "pedigree" but is not registered with CFA or TICA, though perhaps some of his ancestors were. The breeder's other cats have flat faces as well. It's my understanding that the flat face is recessive, not naturally occurring, needs to be bred for over many generations, and is the first thing to go when there's an outcross, so that even a first-generation cross no longer has the flat face. So what are these cats? They can't really be moggies, I mean, if moggies looked like that I wouldn't have any :tongue2: (I'm not a fan of the flat-face look). A moggie is a street-cat type, and this type of cat wouldn't survive 2 minutes out there. They aren't really cross-breeds, because they would lose the flat face. So what is this animal?
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They're a moggie that resembles a Persian. A moggie is any cat without paperwork from a recognised governing body.Say someone in the U.S. has a "Persian". Flat face, long fur, the works. He has a "pedigree" but is not registered with CFA or TICA, though perhaps some of his ancestors were. The breeder's other cats have flat faces as well. It's my understanding that the flat face is recessive, not naturally occurring, needs to be bred for over many generations, and is the first thing to go when there's an outcross, so that even a first-generation cross no longer has the flat face. So what are these cats? They can't really be moggies, I mean, if moggies looked like that I wouldn't have any(I'm not a fan of the flat-face look). A moggie is a street-cat type, and this type of cat wouldn't survive 2 minutes out there. They aren't really cross-breeds, because they would lose the flat face. So what is this animal?
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #55
Ah. How about the unregistered offspring of a registered cat? Also a moggie? It's ALL about the paperwork, nothing to do with the bloodlines?
Yes, as the link provided states,
These are the only cats that have documented bloodlines. The paperwork is the documented bloodline. You can get a bloodline chart going back 5 generations with CFA. These folks keep very detailed information, as was provided by pictures of Toby Tyler 's bloodline chart.
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Prove it, prove you've got an unregistered cat with pedigree bloodlines.
Yes it's all about the paperwork, that is your proof of having a pedigree cat - proving the bloodlines.
A registered cat won't have unregistered offspring, it doesn't work that way.
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And online databases go back further than that, with many breeds being able to trace back to foundation.
Obviously you need that key piece of paper in the beginning to know how to trace your cats ancestors, their names and registration numbers.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
Some breeders who don't register their cats keep very detailed records as well, and could provide that same kind of pedigree. It would come down to trusting them personally instead of trusting CFA/TICA, but it is the same kind of info.
Anyway, I'm just trying to understand how and why cat breeding became so completely different from breeding any other type of animal. It's really quite fascinating.
Anyway, I'm just trying to understand how and why cat breeding became so completely different from breeding any other type of animal. It's really quite fascinating.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #60
It could work that way, since in the U.S. it's up to the new owner to send in the papers, and maybe they don't :dk:.
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