Breed Vs Purebred

[tobytyler]

In the US I think the owners register the new kitten? Here all paperwork is handled by the breeders, owners cannot submit any forms themselves. 

Yes, all three that I have/had (pets, no show or breeding) I was given the paperwork to send in.  The breeder filled out most places, I had to put the name and a second choice of a name.  She may have a different procedure if they will be shown or bred.

 

[tobytyler]

Same here, it's a requirement that all litters must be registered and most breeders then individually register all kittens. Here pedigrees are issued for breeding, show neuter and pet cats. So a pet cat can't be shown and a neuter can't be bred from (though majority neuter before sale anyway) and a breeder can request a new pedigree for a pet cat into a show neuter should the owner change their mind of showing, and the cat meets the standard.

Here you don't need to register pets, but you do for show and breeding.  Your system makes more sense, IMO

 

[tobytyler]

I don't have a scanner, can someone tell me how to post Toby Tyler's 'The Cat Fanciers' Association, Inc. Certified Pedigree'?

It's quite interesting and detailed, there are actually two.  One for the Dam, and one for the Sire.

I really never looked at these and they were in a file for almost 13 years, I pulled them out the night Toby crossed

  They were put away again until I started posting on this thread. 

In no way do I ever think in terms of "bragging rights" to my pets pedigree!  I doubt that I have even mentioned it to my friends or anyone else for that matter, other than TCS!  Somehow here in the states it's almost something you don't even admit...   "Wadda ya mean you didn't get one from a shelter? You just encouraging unwanted pets!"

I simply fell in love with this breed by a once in a zillion opportunity, which had to happen for a reason.  And because of Pantaloons I decided to indulge in a healthy purebred cat.  I found a TICA/CFA Registered Breeder because that was the only way I could be sure I was getting a purebred cat with an established temperament and bloodline.

It's almost like here in the US if you buy from a "breeder", that's somehow evil, as if these cats don't need homes too. I also have a "rescue" all black DSH, who grew up with Toby from the beginning.  And now we are a family of three kitties, with two new purebred young men who are all spoiled rotten.

The only way to continue these wonderful breeds is through people who dedicate their lives for the love of their breed of cat. 

 

[missymotus]

I don't have a scanner, can someone tell me how to post Toby Tyler's 'The Cat Fanciers' Association, Inc. Certified Pedigree'?

Can you take a photo of it, then upload that?

Responsible breeding is about preserving a breed, the overpopulation does not come from there. Just look in the pregnant cat section, how many of them are pet moggies and how many are pedigrees? 

Don't know anyone who buys a pedigree just to brag about it, they're generally purchased after research into different breeds and people wanting a certain temperament & look in their cat. Many who are after a pedigree would never have adopted from a shelter, since they're set on what they want. I know I'll never be without an Ocicat, they are the perfect breed to me. 

Also many breeders are involved in rescue in some way, either directly rescuing cats or via donations. Most are just very quiet about it, not needing any applause by shouting it around for all to hear. 

 

[Willowy]

Um, why would you say a cat from a breeder needs a home, but a cat from a no-kill shelter doesn't? Breeders bring cats into the world and are responsible for their existence, their cats do not "need homes" or they shouldn't be bringing them into the world. If someone likes purebreds and wishes to support a responsible breeder by buying their cats, super, but saying "they need homes too" is just inaccurate. A responsible breeder's cats are not in need.

I'm not sure why you're continuing with the registered breeder thing when the CFA website said they don't register breeders. I'm sure it's confusing to some people.

Yes, I totally agree that a person who wants to be SURE their pet is purebred and well bred should find a responsible breeder of registered cats. But that doesn't mean an unregistered cat isn't purebred. It's just kind of a bizarre argument. Someone looking at a flat-faced, long-haired cat that resembles a Persian in every way, tempermentally and in appearance, who comes from a long line of the same and will produce the same if bred, and saying "that's not a Persian! He has no registration papers!" Is just sort of brain-numbingly odd to me.

 

[missymotus]

I'm not sure why you're continuing with the registered breeder thing when the CFA website said they don't register breeders. I'm sure it's confusing to some people.
 

They register cattery names, which is essentially the same thing. They also register the cats and kittens from those breeders. Not confusing at all. 

 

[nekochan]

They register cattery names, which is essentially the same thing. They also register the cats and kittens from those breeders. Not confusing at all. 

According to CFA's website it is not the same thing:

"Once my cattery name is registered does that mean the cattery itself is registered with CFA?

No.
Note: CFA does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of breeding and selling pedigreed cats.

CFA registers cattery *names*. The actual cattery itself is not registered with CFA. Thus, any advertising you do using your cattery name should say that "XXX is a cattery name registered with CFA" rather than "XXX is a cattery registered with CFA". Alternatively correct wording when advertising your cattery name is "a CFA registered cattery name" rather than " a CFA registered cattery". "

 

[tobytyler]

010.JPG

• tobytyler
• Nov 16, 2012

013.JPG

• tobytyler
• Nov 16, 2012

Toby's father,   Toby's real name was Titania's Toby Tyler.  I think there may be a typo on the Titania?  'Titania' is the CFA Registered Name.

019.JPG

• tobytyler
• Nov 16, 2012

020.JPG

• tobytyler
• Nov 16, 2012

Toby's Mother

I just love some of the names

 

[tobytyler]

There is no such thing as a "CFA registered breeder". From the CFA website:
"Note: CFA does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of breeding and selling pedigreed cats. CFA will register a name for your cattery, but that does not mean that the cattery itself is registered with CFA."
And individual cats or litters can be registered. But not breeders. It's a lot different in Europe and Australia.
And I say that the majority of purebred cats aren't registered is because I'm pretty sure there are more than 60,000 purebred cats in the country. And I have never met a registered purebred, despite knowing a decent number of purebred cats. If your definition of purebred is "registered", then, yeah, you won't agree. But if you think a purebred is an animal that breeds true through many generations, well, lots of those.
I doubt most BYBs bother with fake papers. A lot of people who want a purebred just want a pretty cat with bragging rights., and don't care one bit about papers. Registration is "only for show cats" (or dogs).

I believe you are confusing the words 'license' and 'register'.

 

[missymotus]

I just love some of the names

Looking up pedigrees and their names is fun, some are very creative. I think one of my favourite Oci names is Phyl-Oci-Furr

According to CFA's website it is not the same thing:

Perhaps you missed the word "essentially" in my post. I didn't say it was the exact same thing, but essentially - a breeder registers a prefix, their cats are registered as are progeny. This makes them a registered breeder, and able to sell certifiably pedigree kittens with their own registration papers. 

BYB's don't necessarily fake pedigrees there are many breeders software programs available where you can home print pedigrees. I do one in my kitten packs so they have something on the day since the certified pedigree from the association can take a week or two to arrive. 

There also seems to be a lack of understanding about papers with some thinking their shelter cats papers are the same as pedigree papers. 

 

[Willowy]

I believe you are confusing the words 'license' and 'register'.

And maybe you didn't see this:

"Once my cattery name is registered does that mean the cattery itself is registered with CFA?

No. Note: CFA does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of breeding and selling pedigreed cats.

CFA registers cattery *names*. The actual cattery itself is not registered with CFA. Thus, any advertising you do using your cattery name should say that "XXX is a cattery name registered with CFA" rather than "XXX is a cattery registered with CFA". Alternatively correct wording when advertising your cattery name is "a CFA registered cattery name" rather than " a CFA registered cattery"."

That's straight off the CFA website.

CFA breeders are NOT ALLOWED, by CFA regulations, to call themselves "A CFA registered breeder". So anyone doing that is going against their own organization.

 

[missymotus]

There really isn't any need to continuously copy and paste the same thing 3 times in one thread

I actually don't know any CFA (or TICA) breeders who say 'my cattery name is with' even the term cattery name isn't used

When one says 'we are registered with' what else would they be talking about but their prefix, cats & kittens?

 

[tobytyler]

And maybe you didn't see this:
"Once my cattery name is registered does that mean the cattery itself is registered with CFA?
No. Note: CFA does not license or endorse anyone engaged in the commerce of breeding and selling pedigreed cats.
CFA registers cattery *names*. The actual cattery itself is not registered with CFA. Thus, any advertising you do using your cattery name should say that "XXX is a cattery name registered with CFA" rather than "XXX is a cattery registered with CFA". Alternatively correct wording when advertising your cattery name is "a CFA registered cattery name" rather than " a CFA registered cattery"."
That's straight off the CFA website.
CFA breeders are NOT ALLOWED, by CFA regulations, to call themselves "A CFA registered breeder". So anyone doing that is going against their own organization.
 

Might want to get out your Miriam Webster and look up the difference between the words "license", and "register".  My breeder has been registered as a CFA (and TICA later) breeder since 1967. 

By your own admission, you have never even met a purebred cat.  Your posts on this thread have been corrected and.show an utter lack of comprehension about purebred cats in general.  Dogs and cats are not the same species, there is no comparison between a purebred dog and a purebred cat.  You do not get a registered (purebred) cat from a BYB or shelter. 

Really really incredible though, that you think you know more than a CFA REGISTERED Breeder who has been doing this for probably longer than you've even been alive!   And all the other breeders and purebred owners posting on the thread combined!!!

 

[Willowy]

I'm enjoying the debate. If you're not, there's no reason for you to continue to post.

And, no, you haven't proven anything to me that an unregistered cat is not purebred. A BYB still produces purebreds (although what constitutes a "BYB" varies according to opinion). What else would they be? It is a very odd stand for someone who insists they found a purebred cat on the street to make. He was probably from a "BYB", too.

 

[tobytyler]

Willowy,

You might also read the link posted at the very top of the Breeders Forum:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/52744/accident-or-backyard-breeding

That might be a good place to start since you insist on  posting urban myths on this thread.

 

[Willowy]

If you would like to point out what i said is an urban myth, please feel free .

I think it's important because calling someone a"registered breeder" implies some requirements were met. Passing an inspection, some kind of ethical guidelines, etc. Not just sending in paperwork. I could, today, run down to the pet store and order a couple of CFA registered kittens. Once they arrived, I could send in their paperwork to register them, and also register a cattery prefix. Ta da! Apparently that would make me a registered breeder in some people's opinions. I think this misleads a lot of people.

 

[tobytyler]

If you would like to point out what i said is an urban myth, please feel free

.
I think it's important because calling someone a"registered breeder" implies some requirements were met. Passing an inspection, some kind of ethical guidelines, etc. Not just sending in paperwork. I could, today, run down to the pet store and order a couple of CFA registered kittens. Once they arrived, I could send in their paperwork to register them, and also register a cattery prefix. Ta da! Apparently that would make me a registered breeder in some people's opinions. I think this misleads a lot of people.

"um" for starters that is an urban myth right there.   Pet Stored DO NOT sell CFA registered cats.  Please do run down to your pet store today and report back on your CFA registered cat.

 

[stealthkitty]

Since the point of Breeders Corner is to give educational answers, I am interested in being educated. Could you state clearly what is the urban myth, and also why registering a name makes a breeder not a backyard breeder?

 

[Willowy]

"um" for starters that is an urban myth right there.    Pet Stored DO NOT sell CFA registered cats.  Please do run down to your pet store today and report back on your CFA registered cat.

As i said, i enjoy the debate.

Yes, i have seen the pet store's order forms. They WILL order CFA registered kittens for you. Most people don't order them because they cost more than unregistered kittens, and they don't keep them in the store. But it's absolutely possible. From a kitten mill, no doubt, but still registered.

If you know of a store that sells kittens, go ask about it.

 

[tobytyler]

Since the point of Breeders Corner is to give educational answers, I am interested in being educated. Could you state clearly what is the urban myth, and also why registering a name makes a breeder not a backyard breeder?

Urban myth was just posted. The link provided should answer your BYB question.