Anyone want to chat about "by products, "meal" ... or rather not think about it? ;-)

[emilymaywilcha]

My thoughts may not be all that popular. I been thinking about what I was feeding my cats, what I feed myself as well. Our food supply isn't much better than theirs with pink slime and all.

Some balance about it all, a little of each thing. I can't say all or none is best on any of the theories on here. All raw, some raw, all wet, no grain, some kibbles, no kibbles.

Just keep reading labels and sort through it. Offer fresh meat and see what the cat says about it.

I had one cat who loved pizza. Not much, she just had a few nibbles. But loved pizza night. Did it do her any good? Probably not. But she enjoyed it, that is all that matters. You can't keep them from dying. Just make their trip a little bit happier.

This site did help me a great deal. I say, through good times and/or bad, stick with this place. Keep talking, you will be the greatest cat care person you can be.

I agree our food is not great either, but many studies have been done on humans to determine what they need. I can't imagine what we eat or feed other people is nearly as bad when no studies are being done on cats to figure out what they need.

Whether you should feed some kibbles or not depends on the cat. There are cats who refuse to eat anything else. Same goes for raw food. A cat might like raw food, but not at every meal. You have to feed the cat what it wants - but always be aware it is possible to eat too much tuna and salmon, which many cats love.

 

[violetxx]

I agree Laurie, label transparency is lacking and it may be something we can demand. 

When it comes to cat food, the way I look at it is, the best way to get the big food companies to change, is to educate others about these poor quality brands and why they are deleterious to our pets and if enough people stop buying them, bug businesses will be forced to change if they want to get people to buy their products i.e. supply and demand. And it is happening slowly, Blue Buffalo for example is using it to sell their food.

Laurie made another great point, we have the choice what we feed are cats, just like we choose what we eat. 

I agree our food is not great either, but many studies have been done on humans to determine what they need. I can't imagine what we eat or feed other people is nearly as bad when no studies are being done on cats to figure out what they need.

You'd be surprised to know that there is much controversy around what humans SHOULD be eating still today, let alone what cats should be eating.

Ex: paleolithic diet, eating right for your blood type, food group controversy, vegan/vegetarien, raw vs. cooked etc..

Personally the way I look at is, I try and feed my cats food that mimicks what they would consume in the wild as best as I can, and avoid ingredients that cats have no use for (veggies/grains/dairy) as much as possible. The more people see "natural" as healthy the better we will be as a society, because not only does "natural" apply to cat food it applies to human and pet food. The other day I was reading our fish food label and I was appalled! They use ethoxquin as a preservative and it included many grains and other ingredients that fish DON"T eat... erghh

But one thing I take pleasure knowing, is that there are many of us out there who care about what we feed are cats (TCS) and ourselves and for that i am gladl! 

 

[mschauer]

IMO, it isn't realistic to legislate that pet food companies not use waste to make pet food.
 

Why not? The FEDIAF (European counterpart to AAFCO) has done it:

Materials of animal origin come from abattoirs and animals which have been passed as fit for human consumption by the official veterinary services.

Note: abattoirs = slaughterhouse

http://www.fediaf.org/prepared-pet-food/recipes-and-processing/

 

[ldg]

Interesting. VERY interesting.

Are pet foods made here allowed to be sold there?

 

[Willowy]

Materials of animal origin come from abattoirs and animals which have been passed as fit for human consumption by the official veterinary services

Hmmm. . .that sounds to me like the "materials of animal origin" have to come from animals fit for human consumption, but it doesn't say anything about which parts of the animal are used. Of course that's an improvement over the rendered meals from 4D animals and roadkill and other junk allowed in the U.S., but in all likelihood the actual products used are still the waste material.

 

[ldg]

I really don't think it can be legislated that pet food "chicken" has to be the muscle meat that would normally be fed to humans. :lol3:

But yeah - not including stuff not fit for human consumption would still be a big improvement!!!!!

 

[mschauer]

Interesting. VERY interesting.

Are pet foods made here allowed to be sold there?

Hill's and Iams I know are available in some parts of Europe. My understanding is that such companies manufacture their products to meet the requirements of the local regulatory authority.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

I really don't think it can be legislated that pet food "chicken" has to be the muscle meat that would normally be fed to humans.
But yeah - not including stuff not fit for human consumption would still be a big improvement!

What can be legislated is studying a high number of cats for cat food, which would eliminate things they can't digest like veggies and grains. If companies were required to study hundreds or thousands of cats ages 6 weeks to 15 years for the rest of their lives they would know to never use milk, grains, fruits, or vegetables and to include chicken liver, not just the muscle meat of a chicken.

 

[Willowy]

What can be legislated is studying a high number of cats for cat food, which would eliminate things they can't digest like veggies and grains. If companies were required to study hundreds or thousands of cats ages 6 weeks to 15 years for the rest of their lives they would know to never use milk, grains, fruits, or vegetables and to include chicken liver, not just the muscle meat of a chicken.

The problem is that the big companies like Iams, Purina, and Hill's DO study hundreds of cats for their entire lives, and look what they put in their foods :/. They can, with lots of additions and supplements, make a cat do fairly well on unnatural foods. So that requirement wouldn't make any difference, unfortunately.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

The problem is that the big companies like Iams, Purina, and Hill's DO study hundreds of cats for their entire lives, and look what they put in their foods. They can, with lots of additions and supplements, make a cat do fairly well on unnatural foods. So that requirement wouldn't make any difference, unfortunately.

How are they conducting those studies? Maybe they are flawed. Are they consulting felilne nutrition experts or any old DVM?

 

[Willowy]

Hills is especially famous for their sudies. I'm sure they do more specialized studies, but the ones I know about for sure is that they keep their cats (hundreds of them) in a communal home-like setting, and basically keep them like pets, but everything they eat is recorded and controlled. They have cat doors into the feeding boxes with things that record the cat's microchip number and cameras on them and all kinds of high-tech stuff. Every litterbox situation is recorded. If one of their lab animals get a chronic illness, they start them on that prescription food and record that. They have chemists and nutritionists and all kinds of science-y stuff all over the place. This is one reason their food costs so much.

But remember a food needs to be convenient and affordable or most people aren't going to buy it. Even canned food is "too inconvenient" for a lot of people. And even if they did a study found that a raw diet is best (and why would they, if they can't make money on it?), how many people do you think would switch? But they aren't going to release results that look unfavorable for their company's products.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

How can a company do all that and not see any problems with their ingredients? Unbelievable.

 

[kittylover23]

I've always taken extra precautions when it comes to what I eat and what my cats eat. I haven't eaten any kind of fast food for two and a half years now, because it always bugs me that I don't know how the food was prepared, or what is in it. The fast food industry is similar to the pet food industry, in my opinion. Only in the business to make a profit.

That's why I've been so paranoid about what's in the food I'm feeding my cats, because I don't know how it's been prepared or what kind of chemicals have been put in it. By-products, carrageenan, grains, fillers. All this stuff that cats could do without. If the pet food companies really cared about our animals, they would create high quality foods for obligate carnivores. That's another reason that I love Weruva. Besides the fact that some of their flavors contain carrageenan, they seem to be the only commercial canned food company that tries to create a pet food they would feed their own animals.

It seems that if you want complete control over what your cat is eating, making your own food is the only option. I'm so glad I found TCS though. Without this site, I wouldn't have even heard about raw food, let alone consider feeding it to my cats.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

I already knew some people feed their cats raw food, but always read raw meat is bad because of bacteria and worms. Because of that I was opposed to the whole concept of feeding raw meat to cats.

Of course, back then I only knew real meat must be the first ingredient, not meat byproducts or meat meal, and corn and milk are common allergies.

 

[ldg]

How are they conducting those studies? Maybe they are flawed. Are they consulting felilne nutrition experts or any old DVM?

Here is some information about Hill's:

http://pawcurious.com/2011/12/animal-use-in-pet-food-research-the-hills-approach/

Here is a synopses of clinical studies supporting use of Hill’s[emoji]174[/emoji] Prescription Diet[emoji]174[/emoji] c/d,[emoji]174[/emoji] s/d,[emoji]174[/emoji] u/d[emoji]174[/emoji] and x/d[emoji]174[/emoji] formulas: http://www.hillsvet.com/pdf/en-us/FINAL_-_Clinical_Studies_(layout)_4-24-08.pdf

Most of these published studies are with 4 to 6 animals, and only a few weeks. I was really surprised.

I already knew some people feed their cats raw food, but always read raw meat is bad because of bacteria and worms. Because of that I was opposed to the whole concept of feeding raw meat to cats.

Of course, back then I only knew real meat must be the first ingredient, not meat byproducts or meat meal, and corn and milk are common allergies.

Well, if you're worried about bacteria, I'd be FAR more worried about dry food:

http://www.aseanfood.info/Articles/11018285.pdf
http://www.aseanfood.info/Articles/11021372.pdf
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/more-than-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-mycotoxins.html

One of the biggest issues of concern discussed, is that existing studies of mycotoxin contamination in pet food overlook the day to day consumption of small amounts of mycotoxins; resulting in "chronic diseases such as liver and kidney fibrosis, infections resulting from immonosuppression and cancer." While practicing veterinarians are familiar with severe mycotoxin contamination symptoms in pets, Drs. Boermans and Leung suggest chronic diseases are "often overlooked" as caused from long term consumption of lesser amounts of mycotoxins.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

A few weeks with five animals is nothing. They need to study thousands of cats and dogs from age 6 weeks to their deaths every time they want to test a new recipe.

 

[Willowy]

A few weeks with five animals is nothing. They need to study thousands of cats and dogs from age 6 weeks to their deaths every time they want to test a new recipe.

If that were a requirement for every single pet food, there would be maybe 5 brands available. Nobody can afford it. . .and 20 years of research into each new formula would sure slow things down.

The Whole Dog Journal has an article about Hills in this month's issue, including a full description of their cat facilities. I was actually impressed by their level of research. Not so impressed with their foods :lol3:, but their facilities are amazing. I'm sure they use most of their research for themselves and release very little info publicly. If you can get ahold of a copy of WDJ (ask your dog-owning friends, or rustle it up online somewhere), I recommend reading it.

 

[ldg]

If that were a requirement for every single pet food, there would be maybe 5 brands available. Nobody can afford it. . .and 20 years of research into each new formula would sure slow things down.

Emily, 8 cats or dogs for 26 weeks may not indicate very much. But 1000s of animals for their entire lives is ridiculous, sorry.

 

[andrya]

Hi everyone! I've just stumbled across this forum, and I'm glad I did. I recently started to re-"educate" myself about feline nutrition, and I'm looking for any and all information that I can find. And there is a huge disparity between sources. The articles I've read from feline nutritionists vary greatly from the information I found on the cat food sites. My veterinarian tends to agree with the point of view of the nutritionists, btw, even though she sells two brands that I personally wouldn't buy. Anyway, I would love any thoughts or input from fellow feline-enthusiasts.

Since getting my younger cat 2 1/2 years ago, I switched from all-dry to mostly wet, with dry to graze. Over the last 6 months, I've switched from grocery store food to (what seems to be) better quality food. I don't like the idea of feeding only one or two same foods in case the ones I choose are too high or too low in something, then it could become a chronic issue over time. So, with that in mind, l now rotate between 6 different wet foods, and mix 2 different dry foods for grazing (only one cat will eat the dry). They eat much, much less of this food than they did the grocery-store stuff, and they are slim, healthy, and as active as indoor cats can be. Some of my cat-loving friends say that cats should not be fed such a mixed diet as it upsets their digestive system. If anyone has any suggestions, or info, l'd love to hear.

Siamese, 6 years

Cornish Rex, 2 1/2 years

Canned:  Wellness Core,  Go! Grain Free,  Innova Cat+Kitten (the only one with grain: rice),  Wellness Grain Free,  Evo Cat+Kitten,  Blue Wilderness Grain Free

Dry: Wellness Core and Evo Cat+Kitten mixed together (only the Rex grazes)

l'm adding a kitten to the family in 4 weeks (my profile pic) so l know l'll have to give him a kitten-only diet.

l chose those foods based on my personal understanding of the articles l read. lf anyone knows of anything negative about these choices, or the mix, please share. Thanks

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Many board members will be quick to tell you stop feeding dry food altogether just because it is dry.

Look for the word "kitten' on the cans.