Anyone here a self-identified liberal?

[carolpetunia]

Originally Posted by jcat

Wouldn't it be ironic if this thread had to be moved to IMO because of my post?
I used to be a moderate Republican (yes, such a thing did exist, and perhaps still does), but after eight years of witnessing how Reagan's idea of "small government" turned control of the country over to big business/lobbyists, I started to move left of center. I didn't vote for Clinton, but approved of his performance, and his impeachment proceedings resulted in my leaving the G.O.P..
Nearly eight years of Bush/Cheney, and their total disregard of laws, human rights and the balance of power have pushed me to the far left, I suppose.

I cannot express how deeply I admire the quality of thought and openness of mind your post reveals. If more people (both Republicans and Democrats) were as fair-minded, logical, and non-ego-driven as you are, we'd have a far more just and humane government.

Thanks for brightening my outlook!

 

[theimp98]

Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

If more people (both Republicans and Democrats) were as fair-minded, logical, and non-ego-driven as you are, we'd have a far more just and humane government.

Thanks for brightening my outlook!

lol no, what we need to do is get people who can do the job, who care about this country to run for office.

i am to lazy to for any type of office, besides, the press would have a field day with my police recorded

 

[zissou'smom]

Originally Posted by theimp98

the press would have a field day with my police record

Bruce! My goodness, whatever do you mean?! *swoons a little*

 

[theimp98]

Pat Tillman- Jessica Linch=lol i am sure bush was one the one, that said, we have to cover up tillman, As for Linch, so the military went to make a hero of her, so what, the press lies all the time
the haddita shootings- hmm bush was there doing the shooting?
those nifty weapons of mass distructions. (jokes on us! they are in N.Korea and Iranj!!!! Wow)-They where there, cause US and French bussiness sold the mats for making them, maybe they where never mixed to make them, but the stuff was shipped there, I would have no doubts that it end up in iran, or syria, there as lots of heavy truck traffice out of iraq, before the shooting started all headed for syria. The spying on american citizens- hmm yea, i kinda agree with you there.
The corruption of the constitution- hmm yea, again i do kinda agree
The firing of competent lawyers (republicans at that, but not bush worshipers)-yea so, you do what your boss tells you or you get fired.
The NO Health insurance- get a job? or a better one.

 

[theimp98]

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

Bruce! My goodness, whatever do you mean?! *swoons a little*

lol i will pm you with the sad truth of my miss spent youth

 

[waxlight]

Whee! I love how this thread has stayed respectful

Jumping in. I tend to try not to label myself, or to give labels to people that they don't give themselves.

I'm socially very left leaning. Pro choice, pro civil rights for homosexuals, pro women in the military (assuming they can live up to the same - not scaled down - standards the men can), etc, etc.

Economically? I'm a bit more right leaning. While I don't necessarily agree with what large corporations do, they're corporations. Their reason for existing is to make money, not uphold a moral agenda.

Religiously? I'm agnostic. I admittedly have some bias against ultraconservative Christians, due to things I witnessed when I'm younger and went to church. But I respect their right to believe what that they believe and practice as they wish, as long as it leaves me the right to do the same.

Now, here is what gets me chased out of both the Republican and Democratic parties. I don't think we should have invaded Iraq when we did. We signed agreements to be part of the UN, and ran roughshod over the commitments we had made. We alienated the rest of the world, who we dearly need now. However... being that we did make the decision we did, we have a moral obligation to stay there, or be a large part in rebuilding the country. We completely destroyed that country, gave rise to a civil war, blew up their infrastructure. However, again - we need to apologize. I can understand, while still disagreeing with, the reason people are blowing themselves up over there. If your town, where you were living a reasonably peacable life (yes, I'm assuming you weren't a Kurd, or a member of a minority Islamic sect), and someone comes in, blows up your roads, your bridges, your power plants... missing a 'militarily strategic target' and killing members of your family, and then comes in and occupies you... there are very few options you have left.

Wow, totally longer than I intended. /rant off

 

[catsarebetter]

Actually, waxlight, I *think* and I might be mistaken, that most democrats or liberals agree with you on that. I can't say what anyone else does for sure, I guess, but I definitely agree with you ... at least until presented with some better option.. (re: Iraq)

 

[waxlight]

Actually, waxlight, I *think* and I might be mistaken, that most democrats or liberals agree with you on that. I can't say what anyone else does for sure, I guess, but I definitely agree with you ... at least until presented with some better option.. (re: Iraq)

I think what I'm going on here are the bills presented in congress, as far as a timetable to have the troops withdrawn (currently mixed in with the funding bill). It's pretty much a democratically written and sponsored bill(s), although it gaining more support in the Republican party, mostly because I think they're actually paying attention to public polls as the next presidential election comes 'closer'.

I also get a bit irritated when I hear justification for the immediate withdrawl of our troops given as 'American soilders are dying'. OF COURSE it's terrible, and I feel horrible, and empathetic when I hear those reports. But it's not only american soilders that are dying. I've heard reports (and of course, it hard to get an exact number, given the state of whats going on) of anywhere from 200,000 - 700,000 Iraqis that have been killed as a result of our invasion/occupation. Yes, we've managed to get rid of a horrible, horrible dictator, who did kill/torture his own people. But more people have died as a result of our actions.

 

[carolpetunia]

If I thought American troops were actually helping in Iraq, I think I might feel the same way -- although I'd rather send Bush and his pals over there to fix their own mess rather than a bunch of innocent National Guard troops.

But the truth is, it seems pretty clear now that the presence of our troops is the primary cause of the violence in Iraq! How can we hope to fix the problem when we are the problem?

I think Iraq needs American advisors, trade incentives, and some financial assistance... but the last thing they need is our troops. The longer we stay, the longer the country remains in turmoil.