6 Things I Learned from Our Ringworm Plague (book length....)

[cassiep3]

My cat got ringworm from a foster dog. I'm neurotic (I actually suffer greatly from Generalized Anxiety Disorder). I am so afraid of being one of those cases where it just keeps coming back. We are treating the two cats and our dog with lime sulfur and the one who has lesions is getting miconazole topically. I have 3 kids and so far no one has gotten it. I have cleaned with bleach, vacuumed, used bleach in my steam cleaning machine, thrown out some furniture that he rubs against and a bunch of clutter that I didn't want to have to clean. the affected cat goes outside. He is just miserable in the house but at night he stays in the laundry room with the cat that doesn't go outside and doesn't have symptoms. I have packed up all of our books and will open them in two years when I can be sure all the spores are dead. i cleaned as much as I could of the laundry room (we have a case of 'Mt. Laundry'). My son's room is right off of the laundry room and it has wood floors. i'm not as confident about his room being completely clean since he did it while I was working on the rest of the house. He's 10 and may have cut corners. The cats were in both the laundry room and his room while we were remodeling. I'm hoping there aren't spores still in there. I'm letting the dog roam the living room/family room/kitchen. she shows no signs and is kenneled during the day and night. I'm just hoping I'm doing enough. I damp mop the kitchen daily. And I'm vacuuming where the pets are every day. any suggestions? We were exposed to it for 7 weeks (2 weeks while the dog was here before we knew he had it, 2 weeks till I saw it on the cat, and 3 weeks until the test came back positive-the vet really didn't think he had it so didn't recommend treatment) so is there a fairly good chance we won't catch since we haven't yet? I did another lime sulfur dip last night and with that and the bleach it's killing my lungs. We have to close the bathroom door and our bathroom is tiny. I turn on the fan but with the stuff right in my face it's almost unbearable. My poor cat is so affectionate. He hates being cooped up inside but he comes in to get loves especially from my son and right now he isn't getting them. My poor baby. (I know it is best to keep cats indoors but he's so miserable).

 

[bunnelina]

 
My cat got ringworm from a foster dog. I'm neurotic (I actually suffer greatly from Generalized Anxiety Disorder). I am so afraid of being one of those cases where it just keeps coming back. We are treating the two cats and our dog with lime sulfur and the one who has lesions is getting miconazole topically. I have 3 kids and so far no one has gotten it. I have cleaned with bleach, vacuumed, used bleach in my steam cleaning machine, thrown out some furniture that he rubs against and a bunch of clutter that I didn't want to have to clean. the affected cat goes outside. He is just miserable in the house but at night he stays in the laundry room with the cat that doesn't go outside and doesn't have symptoms. I have packed up all of our books and will open them in two years when I can be sure all the spores are dead. i cleaned as much as I could of the laundry room (we have a case of 'Mt. Laundry'). My son's room is right off of the laundry room and it has wood floors. i'm not as confident about his room being completely clean since he did it while I was working on the rest of the house. He's 10 and may have cut corners. The cats were in both the laundry room and his room while we were remodeling. I'm hoping there aren't spores still in there. I'm letting the dog roam the living room/family room/kitchen. she shows no signs and is kenneled during the day and night. I'm just hoping I'm doing enough. I damp mop the kitchen daily. And I'm vacuuming where the pets are every day. any suggestions? We were exposed to it for 7 weeks (2 weeks while the dog was here before we knew he had it, 2 weeks till I saw it on the cat, and 3 weeks until the test came back positive-the vet really didn't think he had it so didn't recommend treatment) so is there a fairly good chance we won't catch since we haven't yet? I did another lime sulfur dip last night and with that and the bleach it's killing my lungs. We have to close the bathroom door and our bathroom is tiny. I turn on the fan but with the stuff right in my face it's almost unbearable. My poor cat is so affectionate. He hates being cooped up inside but he comes in to get loves especially from my son and right now he isn't getting them. My poor baby. (I know it is best to keep cats indoors but he's so miserable).

CassieP3, hang in there! Most people get super anxious and freaked out when it comes to ringworm so you have lots of  sympathetic company here. As I wrote originally, that nervous energy can be harnessed to help you get the cleaning done, and the cleaning can help to give you a sense of control and accomplishment, that might calm you a little. Ringworm is a nightmare but not a life-threatening one. But I think it changed my outlook on life. When times get tough, at least I can say, "Well, at least we don't have ringworm anymore!"  It's a lousy way to become more empowered but at least there's one small benefit to the whole mess.....

I think that it's a bit odd that your vet didn't recommend oral treatment for the animals, as they are effective ways to get to a cure (three neg. cultures) fairly quickly. There a couple of different drugs that are used and they can have serious side effects you'd need to watch out for. Griseofulvin is no longer recommended because it is so dangerous, as well as being complicated to give. But there's also itraconazole (Sporanox) and terbinafine (generic form of oral Lamisil). You might ask your vet about oral drugs, especially if your cats are strong and healthy. 

Stressed out animals and people are more susceptible to ringworm, so the fact that your family didn't get it is great! (Kittens, who don't have developed immune systems, also tend to get it.) It's a really good sign that you aren't all getting spotty. Not all strains of the fungus are equally virulent, either. Sometimes whole families come down with it and all their animals, while others will have only a couple of affected pets. I don't think you need to keep your books boxed up for two years unless your cat and dog were all over the books. You're dealing with airborne spores, remember. They tend to collect where dust collects via the same air currents. So keeping everything spotless (damp microfiber cloths, filtration vacuum cleaner) esp. where dust typically collects (in corners, under furniture, etc.) will help. If you have air vents, those can require special treatment. Check out the "Ringworm Treatment in a Nutshell" links in the thread above if you haven't read Dr. Moriello's treatment protocol already. She might have more tips for you; her three tactics are oral meds, lime sulfur dips, and clean, clean, clean.  Good luck to you and keep us posted! 

 

[cassiep3]

They didn't suggest oral therapy for the foster dog either-in fact he didn't even get the miconazole topical. He healed pretty quickly. The family that had him after us didn't do any cleaning-nor did their daughter who also watched him sometimes. They didn't isolate him or anything.

The test took 20 days to show the ringworm and the spots that we took him in for were virtually healed by then. He did have a spot on his ear that was suspect. It was a little tiny bald spot that had a scab or something next to it. It may have been a bite but I'm treating it with the miconazole to be safe. The vet said that he had a very small "load". I asked if it was possible that it was a spore that was on his foot? (his original spots were identical spots on the back of both "knees" on his back legs so I thought he could have something on his fur rather than actually having ringworm.)

Will the miconazole and lime sulfur not work without oral meds??

 

[bunnelina]

Will the miconazole and lime sulfur not work without oral meds??

I have no idea! It sounds like you aren't dealing with a very virulent outbreak, which is great. Having a low "load" and needing that long to get the positive result suggests that you're not dealing with a nasty case, and I bet that also means that when it's gone, it's really gone and NOT coming back. But oral meds are a standard part of the treatment plan used by many vets, based on Karen Moriello's work on shelter cats. And since you are eager to get this whole thing over with quickly, I thought I would ask, since the two oral meds that I mentioned are known to be very effective. Oral meds make cats, at least, "unfriendly hosts" to the fungus. I don't know anything about dogs, except that ringworm can affect them differently. 

Isolating doesn't usually make a lot of sense since spores are airborne, but if it can be done easily, without stressing the dog or cat at all, it seems to give people some peace of mind. There was no way for us to do it in our 800-square-foot city apartment, so I just cleaned the whole thing relentlessly. 

I only have anecdotal evidence, but I don't recall anyone getting a true "All Clear" with three negative cultures on all their animals and then getting another ringworm outbreak — unless their cats go outside. Obviously, if the cat originally picked it up outside, it's still out there somewhere. If your problem came via a foster dog (no good deed goes unpunished!) that wasn't very local, that's a different situation. You might ask your vet how prevalent it is in your area. It's getting more common here in New England and it's very well known in the South. This is all to say that, when you get those negative cultures and if your house (including air vents and ducts) got dust-free and clean in the meantime, you should not have to keep worrying that it will show up again.  It will all come to seem like a bad dream you once had, I promise!

 

[cassiep3]

The dog was from Louisiana. I live in Washington State. My cat does go outside-he's our only indoor/outdoor cat. He hates inside (I feel guilty letting him out but I would feel awful keeping him in). I can't imagine he got it outside since it showed up two weeks after the foster dog left.

Yeah, I have fostered 41 dogs and I think that I'm done. At least for now. I am not handling this well so I need to not have the added stress. He's a healthy cat so the vet said that he probably had the infection but his system was fighting it.

Is it true that lime sulfur makes the cats less contagious?

 

[cassiep3]

I just called the vet about the meds and I know that they are getting annoyed with me. But the vet we saw graduated from vet school this year. I'm not really confident in her ability to take care of this. Although the owner of the practice was the one who only prescribed the lime sulfur for the dog so maybe it's not standard practice here. I'm starting to get anxious though because maybe we should be doing something more and we're not and I have to be pushy to find out.

This is one of my worst nightmares.

 

[bunnelina]

 
I just called the vet about the meds and I know that they are getting annoyed with me. But the vet we saw graduated from vet school this year. I'm not really confident in her ability to take care of this. Although the owner of the practice was the one who only prescribed the lime sulfur for the dog so maybe it's not standard practice here. I'm starting to get anxious though because maybe we should be doing something more and we're not and I have to be pushy to find out.

This is one of my worst nightmares.

Cassie, I called my vet at least once a day for weeks and no one got annoyed with me, as far as I know. I was dealing with a few other illnesses on top of ringworm, however.  If you aren't confident in your vet, get on the phone and try to find out how ringworm is treated in other practices. I did that, and everyone gave me their time. I was mainly trying to compare oral med types and dosages and was trying to find someone to do our dips since we couldn't handle it in the apartment. 

This is Karen Moriello's treatment protocol; I found it when we were all waiting for our first culture results..

https://www.giveshelter.org/dermatophyte-treatment-in-a-nutshell.html

When we got the bad news, I showed it to my vet. She had already seen it and was using it, so I was lucky. But not all vets are up to speed on ring wom. You might want to show it to your vet and tell her/him that there are Moriello research papers to read. 

According to her lime sulfur IS Effective. It should make cats less contagious even if it may not be enough to completely cure every cat. Every situation seems to be different. But I think doing it is  really important.

Hang in there. I hope you and your vet come to a good understanding. You need that support and you need to feel you've got a good team behind you!  

 

[cassiep3]

the receptionist sighed deeply.
I've read that information. I wonder what his p-score was. she said it was very low.

 

[cassiep3]

Oh, the rescue group is paying for the treatment so maybe they aren't as patient since the group gets a discount? I'm grateful they are paying for it.They said since it was their dog that he got it from they would pay for it. I had to buy all the cleaning supplies and the steam cleaner.

 

[stormcat9]

My vet gave me fluconozole for my Siamese with ringworm.  It is clearing up much faster than the rescue kittens who just got topical cream.  I also gave them all a sulphur lime dip because the vet told me it could reduce the amount of spores they shed by killing the spores already in their fur.  My only complaint is the cost of the meds.  Since the kittens are so small, the pill form, even broken in half, was too much for them.  I had to get the 40mg/mL suspension which the pharmacy charged $107.  I was able to use a prescription card I bought for $20 to discount the meds to $65, but that's still a lot for me.  And that's only two weeks worth.  But now that I see how well it's working, the price is not an issue.  I saw how long and bad the rescue kittens had it without oral meds (the rescue group wouldn't pay for them. Now I wish I had just spent my own money for it.) and it's made a big difference.  

 

[cassiep3]

I called the vet and didn't get a call back. Unfortunately the vet who the rescue has an acct with is really he only one I can go to. It sounds like it can't be healed without oral meds along with the lime sulfur and microscope.

 

[eliandkoby]

Possibly insist on oral meds.  Yes there are side effects (for some) but you want to get after this beast quickly.  We had it in our home due to a foster kitten also.  My daughter ended up adopting him, and then 3 weeks later he has a bare spot on his lip.  Koby was  mts old by that time.  The expense was all on us.  I guess I could of asked for their help, but vet at the rescue is not always there and I wanted help 24/7 since I knew NOTHING about ringworm. 

You're doing good.  Keep at it.  We used malesab shampoo three times a week for all 3 of our cats.  That and the terbinifine (4.00 walmart script) eventually cleared it.  We quaranteened our two cats in a bedroom for 8 wks.   Broke my heart, but they lived. 

 

[cassiep3]

So I read in Dr. Moriello's information that other things can turn the test red. I think it's odd how his original spots (the ones they tested) had already healed by the time we got the diagnosis. The spots on his ears could be flea bites-we were having a problem with them from the foster dogs. The vet is brand new and when I asked questions she had to go ask another vet. I have no confidence in her ability to treat this. And I'm not even confident he actually has it. But I'm not taking any chances and I'm still waiting for the phone call about the oral meds.

 

[bunnelina]

 
So I read in Dr. Moriello's information that other things can turn the test red. I think it's odd how his original spots (the ones they tested) had already healed by the time we got the diagnosis. The spots on his ears could be flea bites-we were having a problem with them from the foster dogs. The vet is brand new and when I asked questions she had to go ask another vet. I have no confidence in her ability to treat this. And I'm not even confident he actually has it. But I'm not taking any chances and I'm still waiting for the phone call about the oral meds.

Well, that's interesting. Treating ringworm when you're not even sure there is any is still quite a pain. But surely the lab should be able to look at the culture under a scope and see m. canis. 

Who diagnosed the dog? Did the dog come from a shelter where there's an outbreak? Is there a more experienced vet that you can see for a second opinion on the cat? If that cat has no visible lesions right now, why not have an experienced vet or vet tech do another culture? A negative culture is one step closer to "cured".

We waited six weeks for our last culture on one of our cats who never had a lesion. We were told "there's something growing but we can't tell what." So we kept treating everyone for three weeks beyond what we'd expected until they finally said it was negative. I hope you can get some certainty. The lab should be able to define its result for you. And, no matter how your newbie vet feels, I believe that it's not one bit unreasonable for you to ask about that!

 

[cassiep3]

The more experienced vet sounded very annoyed when I was asking him questions. He was rushing through it. I will have to have him re-cultured anyway in two weeks so maybe I should just wait. I work full time and have three kids-it's hard to get to the vet. It wasn't sent to a lab-they did it in house. It almost sounded like they were going off of the fact that it turned red rather than looking at it under a microscop but I don't know that for sure.

The dog came from a shelter in Louisiana. He came up with his 3 brothers. We had 2 of them and the other 2 were with different fosters. The dog that was kenneled with him at my house never got ringworm. The other dogs had demodex and we assumed that's what he had. When we took him to the vet for his vaccines the vet said it looked like ringworm. Test came back within a week and was positive. He was treated at his new foster home and adopted 3 weeks later. Apparently the other foster home didn't do any house cleaning at all beyond regular stuff. His brother who was kenneled with him did not get ringworm nor did the other 2 who were kenneled with him in Louisiana for weeks before they were flown up to Seattle.

Seven months ago we had 6 animals of our own. Unfortunately 3 of them were about the same age and all had to be euthanized. Our rottie/lab mix died two months before the foster dogs came. Our dachshund died in December. Our long haired blind cat died a week before Butter's diagnosis.

I love our rescue group. They are so great about taking care of my pets if they get something from the fosters. I don't think all rescues do that. I've always been terrified of sarcoptic mange but never thought about ringworm. I found out that sarcoptes is much easier to deal with because you just give them Revolution and it doesn't live in the environment as long. This is an absolute nightmare.

 

[cassiep3]

i talked to the vet and she said that oral meds are given usually with more severe cases. I'm starting to think the spot on Butter's ear is just a bite. He had a scab on his ear today in that spot. just a small scab. I've been putting miconazole on it. it doesn't look anything like ringworm. there was a tiny bare spot that had a scab so I assumed it was ringworm but now I think it was probably just a bite. his legs are completely healed. he's had one week of treatment now. Any thoughts?

 

[bunnelina]

"Severe" cases? If you ask most of us on this thread, there's no such thing as a "mild" case of ringworm. Yes, some animals get worse-looking and more numerous lesions... but if you ask us "survivors," I'm willing to bet that all of us wanted to make it go away — fast, completely, and forever — and so we wanted to hit it immediately with every "weapon" we knew about. 

Which is not to say that most of us weren't concerned about side-effects of oral meds and weren't horrified at the high price of some of them. But there are inexpensive drugs that are safe and effective for MOST cats. Especially grown cats rather than little kittens. Fluconazole, for example. Generic terbinafine in the correct, carefully monitored dosage.

I honestly don't think any of us wanted to hang around and wait to see if the ringworm spread to affect more of the cat, or infected more of our cats, or the kids or the dogs, or our own legs or faces, or those of our guests.  I don't like to criticize vets in general but, from everything you've written, yours comes across as kind of naive about ringworm... is this the one who just got out of school? 

Your vet should know what your culture's "load" was, if there is one. Maybe it was very, very low? Did they ever give you more details? I think it's unusual that they do their own cultures, yet don't seem that familiar with what is now a fairly standard treatment that's gotten lots of attention in the vet dermatology field, at conferences, and online, etc because it's life-saving in shelter situations. Maybe your vet has had a lot of success doing it his or her way....

Here's my experience: We asked our vet (in an all-cat practice) to incubate our cultures instead of sending them to a lab because we were treating four cats and four weekly cultures were costing us $360, on top of another $240 for dips and a lot of money for Sporanox. We offered to buy them a culture incubator for several hundred bucks, because it would have saved us money in the long run. They perked up at our offer, but ultimately said that culturing was too critical to have anyone but the pros handle it. So that's where I'm coming from....

If you read what Dr. Moriello writes about ringworm, you'll see that it can mimic other skin problems, or not. It can be tiny spots of discolored fur, or scabs, or nasty-looking red areas, or rings, etc., etc., .... It can still look kind of terrible when it's actually been recently cured but is still healing.... or not. The only way to know if your cat or dog is negative is to do cultures and have an expert incubate them and interpret the results.

I'm sorry you're dealing with so much uncertainty. I think it is making your situation uniquely difficult! I wish I could be more helpful, and I really hope you are right about Butter!   Hang in there! 

 

[cassiep3]

We are going back to the vet tomorrow. his ears are worse. they weren't this bad when we started treating. I don't think he has ringworm on his ears. I think he has scabs that can't heal because they are constantly wet.

 

[cassiep3]

he has a massive bacterial infection all over his head. He had a shot of antibiotics and we are giving mupirocin on his spots until they heal. they shaved his head. They said no more lime sulfur or miconazole on his head until further notice. I'm thinking he never had ringworm on his head and putting the miconazole on it made it get more infected.

 

[bunnelina]

Oh, no!  The poor little guy!  I hope you are right  about the ringworm, and that he gets better fast!