6 Things I Learned from Our Ringworm Plague (book length....)

[fdxr]

My kitten has gotten soft stool since starting him on fluconazole. Is that a side effect by chance ?

To test to see if he if done with the RW, would it be best to do another PCR test instead of the toothbrush test ?

Good to know about how much Accel concentrate I'll be going through.  TY.  Right now I'm using what I have on hand.  I prefer it over bleach and think it works better than bleach anyway.  I'm told it has been proven effective in killing feline leukemia virus and canine parvovirus.  Its been registered with the EPA as a disinfectant for use in animal residence areas.  After initial use, it continues to work for 3 days compared with household bleachs that lose effectiveness in 1 hour.

In reference in being able to let my kitten out of his room after the dips:  good advice to keep him isolated until I get a negative culture back from the vet. TY

Since he only has 1 eye where the ringworm is DIRECTLY above, I'll have to be very very careful to dab it on that spot.  Was suggested by my vet and 1 other to put preservative free lubricant eye drops in his eye before I do the dip.  I've been working non-stop since I got the dip, so I haven't done it yet. 

"Moriello said recently her two main oral drugs are itraconazole (sporanox) and terbinafine. That's a pretty good endorsement."  TY  I will find out at Thursday vet appt if the fluconazole is working.  I used the black light few minutes ago on his and the RW spots are much improved.

BTW I confirmed my vet did the PCR test and he tested for  M. Canis.  My little guy definitely has the redness all 3 spots.

My vet talked about the generic having to be compounded.  So I'm thinking both generic and name brand sporanox (itraconazole (sporanox) and terbinafine) is what he was referring to.  I may have misundersood.

Yup I live in TX and my house is definitely dry so that would explain my other cat itichiness.  I've been able to turn the heat off the last few days and haven't noticed the itichiness in him much anymore

My kitten has been doing so much better.  His mood is almost normal as far as I can tell.  I'm also using the colloidal silver gel on all 3 spots and I believe that is helping (in addition to thefluconazole we started last Thursday) .  I'm also giving him probiotics and lysine to boost his immune system.  And he is doing well on the herpes medicine too.  Barely any sneezing anymore.

 

[longhornmom]

Hello!

I thought I would come back and do a little update on our ringworm saga.  The second vet who had told me he would culture my kitten did NOT in fact culture my kitten because (like the first vet) he said that since there were no lesions, he would have no way to culture.  At that point, I threw in the towel with the culture process.  The vet was surprised that I had dipped the kitten, and said that with the Griseofulvin and dip and no signs of lesions, we were probably safe to let the cat be around us.  He even suggested giving the cat MORE Griseofulvin (or for longer than the original vet had suggested). However, when I tried to give the kitten the new meds, he went crazy and sprayed them all over the house and himself - when previously he would literally sit and open his mouth for the other. (I can't figure out why one vet's Griseofulvin was white and the other's was orange). After a few days of trying, and having the same result, I ditched the Griseofulvin.  I *thought* we were safe, but the kids and I have all had re-occurring spots No new ones, just ones that disappeared previously rearing their ugly heads. We are slowly recovering, but it obviously isn't over yet.  I am thankful for the posting of the new research on the cleaning of the environment. It is so much less stressful to just clean like a normal person instead of doing laundry 24-hours a day!

As for the kitten, he doesn't seem to be super itchy or have any ringworm signs, so that is good. However, now that he is allowed to sleep with me again, on my white bedspread, I started noticing little tiny orange pellets on the places he sleeps. I finally decided to google it today, as I couldn't figure out what was causing it. And of course, it looks like he might have a tapeworm...can't catch a break! Off to find threads about that now!

I hope things are improving for everyone else!

 

[bunnelina]

Hi Longhorn Mom,

It's nice to hear an update from you but I'm so sorry you aren't out of the woods yet. You have a lot of company here, at least!

As I read your story, it struck me that your vets are out of date as far as current ringworm treatment. We need the best advice and care we can get during this difficult situation and it seems your vets don't know the most effective ways to help you battle the ringworm. And I can't imagine a more frustrating problem to add to the ringworm problem itself. As you've read, we're fortunate to have some very helpful recent contributions to this thread, updating us on new research by the country's feline ringworm expert, Dr. Karen Moriello. What your vets are telling you clashes with what she recommends, based on her research. None of us here are vets, but some of us have done research and can tell the rest of us what's considered the best treatment these days. And I don't think anyone here wants to waste time and money on treatments that may not work as well.

Today, vets do not need to prescribe griseofulvin. I learned this from my own vet in 2009, during our ringworm plague. It  can cause liver damage and can be fatal. Your cat might have been saving his own life by rejecting the medicine! There are other effective, sometimes less-expensive medications available, including generic terbinafine (inexpensive) and Sporanox (itraconazole, expensive but safer to give to small kittens). None of these ringworm oral medications is perfectly safe; they are powerful drugs. (I always recommend double-checking dosages with another vet or vet-pharmacist to be sure.) Some vets will monitor liver function while administering any of these drugs if the cat has other health issues or there's any concern. But griseofulvin... it's not prescribed anymore. I've read that it's even hard to get now. Please don't give any more to your cats..

You can't tell by looking at the cat if it is cured. Culturing is the only way to know. When there are no lesions, vets take a "toothbrush cuiture." They brush the cat all over with a toothbrush, and add whatever is on the brush to the culturing medium. There's a new, fast, accurate culture method: PCR testing. It takes a couple of days instead of up to three weeks to get a result. Since two negative cultures in a row are considered the only way to tell if a cat is cured, PCR cultures can save a lot of time, trouble, and money otherwise spent on extra weeks of cleaning, dipping, and medicating cats while awaiting results. 

It sounds like you've read Moriello's helpful new findings on cleaning. I hope it saves you a lot of time and energy! You might gather what she has to say about medication, culturing, and dipping, and share it with your vet if you want to stick with him. Since you've been dipping, I think you are already much better informed than he is, but he will want to see sources, assuming he is willing to listen and learn..... You won't be the first person here who has had to educate his or her vet (or find a new one). If there's an all-cat practice in your area, you might try them. It's easier for vets to stay current on research and other developments when they can focus entirely on one species. And they tend to have more experience with all kinds of cat problems, having so many more patients.

Best of luck to you, and thank you again for keeping us up to date. I hope this is all over for you very soon! 

 

[blacksakura6]

 
So Graysan was allergic to the lime sulfur dip?    I'm soooo glad you followed your instincts and Graysan is feeling better already

If that is the case of allergies, I find it interesting about the strong smell he had and Yong Gi did not.  Reminds me of when I was investigating perfumes for myself and the sales lady told me that if a perfume worked well with my body chemistry (and smelled good on me), I wouldn't smell it after I applied it (but others would).  If a perfume wasn't working well with my body chemistry, I would always smell it long after I applied it (and wouldn't really smell good on me).

Sounds like I need to follow your posts as my 6 month old kitty started Fluconazole as well. Can I find pictures on internet of what healing spots look like ?  I know cats wounds heal the opposite of humans.

I received my Lime Sulfur dip today in the mail.  I'm too tired to dip tonight and a little nervous about the process for when I do apply it.  Any tips or tricks to offer ?  I saw a youtube video a vet did but my computer locked up and wouldn't finish it.

TY for your posts!  Definitely very helpful to me!

I am glad that my posts may have helped you FDXR!

Graysan is doing so well now!  We bathed him with Dechra Miconahex + Triz Pet Shampoo on Sunday and he is still on 5 mg of Zyrtec for the allergic reaction.  His itchiness seems to be so much better!  He still scratches here and there but it is a quick scratch and stop rather than sitting there pulling his hair out.  He is running and playing again with Yong Gi!   They were just chasing up and down the hall and as I am typing this he was on his back on the couch trying to grab YG's tail as he walked by. The redness that was on his ears and neck is much better!!   It now looks more like regular skin.  We bathed him again last night and will do so again on Sunday.  We will take him back to the Vet on Tuesday for his re-check. She had an emergency come up so she will be out of the office on Friday (the only day we could take him in) and since he is doing well we made it for next week. 

Once we got the lime sulfur off of him he really started to clear up.  Also, he must have had an infection as well so the antibiotics may have worked on the bacterial issue allowing the fungal issue to clear.  We are all still miffed as to why he had such a strong reaction to the dip.

Despite his allergic reaction I highly recommend doing the dips.  Yong Gi is perfectly fine!  His coat is shiny and the lesions are gone!  The dips seemed to help him heal quickly. Also in a strange way the dips give a personal sense of calm.  You know you are attacking the live spores on the skin and coat head on.  So when they are shedding you are getting less active spores in the environment.  We did not bathe YG this weekend and decided to leave him be for the moment to focus on Graysan.  He is just receiving the fluconazole once a day.

I am surprised that your Vet is giving 100 mg per day.  Graysan is 11.4 pounds and Yong Gi is 13.2 pounds but both of them are only on 50mg. given once daily.  Continue to do what your Vet suggest but I would ask why he/she is giving that dosage.

I do not know if there are pics on the Net of the healing spots.  The best way to describe them on my guys is they started off really fuchsia pink, they began to spread out, then slowly became lightly crusty, and hair began to come in as stubble eventually filling in.   Let me state that this is what happened with YG.  Graysan has more spots now but the first lesion he had above his eye filled in and just looks like sparse hair now.  

As for dipping I got a lot of great advice in this thread!  (Thank you to everyone here!  

)  If you have someone else to help you it will make it easier. Use gloves!  Have one person gently hold and stroke them while the other pours and rubs the solution on.  One thing that was recommended by a Vet vid on You Tube was protective eye ointment so we used Paralube Vet Ointment in case of splashing.  We used a food grade bucket to mix the actual dip and a large storage tote to place them in placed in the bath tub.  Make sure it is warm like a baby bath because it is more soothing.  We were afraid that Graysan would get upset if we put him down in the solution so we put him in the larger tote and used a cloth to rub the dip on him.  We also used an empty bottle filled with dip to direct it into certain hard to reach areas.  Also, if they want to stand up on the container with their paws on the edge of the tote we let them.  It allowed us to reach the areas under their chest and stomach.   If you can just put them in the dip then that is great however.  YG was not as co-operative and we were grateful that we took the advice of wearing jackets to protect our arms as he tried to climb up my husband to get out of the dip!  

  WE talked to them explaining everything we were doing and it seemed to keep them calmer.  Hearing the tone on your voice that it is a wonderful thing may help to distract your kitten from what is happening.

Afterwards we placed comfy collars on them both securing them with gauze that was put through the loops and tied.  We then put each one in a separate crate/cage for only one hour while monitoring them to allow them drip until damp.  (We were afraid they would try to lick each other.)  Once they were damp we let them run around the bedroom with the cones on for 3-4 hours until completely dry.  My husband stayed in there with his laptop to watch them and make sure they did not remove the cones while I ran around, disinfected,  mopped and vacuumed.   Once they were dry we did a gentle combing on them and let them loose.

The dipping was more time intensive IMO but I feel it was worth it.  Bathing Graysan is so much easier for us however, but we have no idea how long his patience will hold out with us doing it.  I know he feels better and he is not ripping into himself after the baths.  He even climbed up on the bed afterwards to lean on me and finish liking himself dry after his bath last night so I know he understands that we are trying to help.

We also used colloidal silver and Banixx on the lesions.  We felt it was safer than the topical anti-fungals because the lesions were in spots that they could lick easily.  At the moment we are not using them because the lesions appear to be resolving.  The other thing I am doing is putting some Omega 3 oil made for cats in their food every day to help with healing the skin.  I just think that every little bit helps.  And since you mentioned that yours has herpes as well try looking into L-Lysine for him.  Make sure it has nothing else added.  The NOW brand is good.  Add a little to his wet food and he won't even taste it.  It works well for a friend's cat that has herpes.  Look into it and see if it is right for your little one. 

Neither of us have broken out yet in any lesions...  Maybe we are just lucky but we think all of the supplements (like neem capsules and chlorella every night...  we have been taking them for years) may have helped to boost our immune system.  Who knows....  But we still have a long way to go.  Waiting another two weeks for YG's culture results and we are going to get Graysan cultured again on Tuesday.   

I wish you luck!  And I will follow what you are doing as well.  As my Vet told us,"Do your best, that is enough."  

 

 

[blacksakura6]

 
Hello!

I thought I would come back and do a little update on our ringworm saga.  The second vet who had told me he would culture my kitten did NOT in fact culture my kitten because (like the first vet) he said that since there were no lesions, he would have no way to culture.  At that point, I threw in the towel with the culture process. [Edit]

What my Vet did was take a newly opened toothbrush and brushed it all over Graysan's body.  She then used that to place it into the culture solution.  At that point he only had a little redness above his right eye but no true lesions.   One of the reasons it was harder to diagnose on sight.  The Vets you are going to may not know about that method. 

I am so sorry that you are all still dealing with the lesions on yourself and your family.  Hopefully, they will resolve soon.  

As for the possibility of worms we always wormed our new additions with Drontal (from the Vet) and put Revolution on them for fleas, mites and to also guard against worms (takes care of them all except tapeworms... That is what the Drontal is for).  I don't know if your Vet will do the Drontal without a stool sample but it is IMO the best approach.  And taking care of the intestinal parasites may help his immune system to fight harder against the ringworm so it also does not have to fight against the worms at the same time...

Wishing you the best!!!  Sending you some energy to deal with all of this!  

 

 

[fdxr]

Hi everyone!

Update and responses to several of the recent posts:

(sorry for long post...its helping me so much as I write it)

Today's Vet check was WONDERFUL news thanks to each and everyone of you here on TheCatSite.Com. TY all!

My 6 month old kitten with 3 RW lesions and positive PCR test of M. Canis started on Fluconazole 25 mg 7 days ago (1/4 of a 100mg tablet every 24 hours for at least 30 days..sorry for earlier typo and thx BlackSakura6 and others for the double check !).  He weighs 7 lbs.

My vet was OVER THE MOON HAPPY with my kittens progress in 7 days.  He was so pleased I couldn't get over it!!  I felt like I won the lottery.  After his shock when I adopted a one-eyed kitten with herpes conjunctivitis/ulcers two weeks ago who still needed vet care for his eye to keep that working and healthy, and then to find he had RW right above his 1 and only eye, I think he thought I was out of my mind crazy.  I was thrilled to see such an ecstatic reaction!  (I have a 9 yo cat that the vet was concerned about in reference to me adopting a kitten with herpes...this is when I found the vets in my area are not as "progressive" on herpes and HIV+ cats as other places I know of).   I've leaned heavily on them as well as you guys and its taken its toll on me and them.  Last week I broke down sobbing at the vet when they casually asked me how I was doing. 

Anywho, the vet suggested I stay the course with his treatment of Fluconazole 25mg/day since there was so much improvement.

Because I'm an over-achiever, I decided to continue treating the 3 RW spots topically with colloidal silver first aid gel since I believe how safe and effective it is... and in an effort to double up on attacking this RW on all fronts.  The vet gave his blessing to continue with the colloidal silver topically.  He said typically the oral fluconazole is all I need as that is doing its job internally. At first I was applying Monist at 7 topically, but now believe the colloidal silver is safer, especially since I have to be so careful not getting any into his only good eye which is still being treated for herpes conjunctivitis.

He also said he personally wouldn't bother with the lime sulfur dip as the fluconazole is doing its job very well.  I noticed many of you post 2 thumbs up on using the dip as well (TY all!)  So far I'm reading how the dip can kill the spores on their coat/fur as well, so that would mean eliminating more of those bad boys in and around the house (and away from my 9 yo cat although I have the kitten in quarantine in the guest bedroom).  Do people use the dip instead of the oral medications or always in conjunction with them ?  I received the dip in the mail but haven't had a day off work yet to do it yet.  I suppose its adjunctive therapy that can satisfy my over-achiever personality if I can get up the NERVE and time to do it.  TY BlackSakura6 for great dip details!!  To be honest my wish/goal is to get him healed and out of quarantine ASAP.

I am also doing my own routine of boosting my kitties immune system (since he has both herpes conjunctivitis, RW and the typical kitty "not yet fully developed" immune system.) I believe this is helping too.  It consists of probiotics, Fortiflora probiotics, L-lysine (Viralys) and interferon.  I believe everything I'm doing is helping to get nice results so far.  My vet gave me the blessing to stay the course with it all.

I did ask if I should consider switching to itraconazole or sporanox as Dr. Karen says they are the gold standard.  He believed our plan was working quite well as Fluconazole is the same class as itraconazole (and relatively cheap alternative $30 for 30 days treatment to itraconazole and he is aware of my limited budget).  He's had very good success with the fluconazole.  Also a LOT less side effects than the liver damage potential of the other stuff (not sure if he was referring to Itraconazole ($95 my area), Sporanox ($300 my area), and/or the griseofulvin at this point ?).  Don't quote me on this, but I believe he said that fluconazole was sold/labeled as cat RW medicine and the other two are not and that is why they are so expensive ?

H said for sure griseofulvin is something to avoid especially now that they have fluconazole, itraconazole (Sporanox), and Terbinafine (Lamisil) available.  Perhaps it was the griseofulvin that he said had the bad liver side effects as I just saw in Bunnelina's and others posts just now.  I've also read that GI upset is a fairly common consequence of griseofulvin administration. 

I've also read that fluconazole may be the least effective of all available RW drugs, so perhaps this site/forum and my immune building efforts are contributing to the great results.

I've found a great routine of getting is meds in that works for my kitty and I.  Since he is SO OVER being pilled and his eye messed with 4 the last 5 months, I save the wet food (Fancy Feast Chicken) and add crushed fluconazole and famciclovir.  Once he eats all that, I add the probiotics, lysine and fortiflora to more wet food.  Once he eats that, I give the rest of the wet food and leave out dry food for the rest of the day until the next 12 hour medications.  My 9 yo is on Royal Canin urinary SO so I'm thrilled the new guy took to that as well so I can free feed both without worry about my 9 yo getting into any other non-approved food as he gets crystals BAD when not on the SO.  (I also use filtered water as my area here has high mineral content and I believe its the magnesium that helps develop crystals in my 9 yo cat).  I use Cheese Wow on occasion for pills if he's not digging or hungry enough for the wet food.

I'm crazy busy so I've only been able to clean (dust, vacuum and disinfect his guest bedroom) once a week.  I run the vacuum through the non-quarantined areas first and save the quarantined guest bedroom for last.  Then I disinfect the vacuum afterward. I wear gloves when I apply the colloidal silver on him.  I dispose of the gloves when I leave the room.  I only wear a designated pair of PJ's when I work with him or touch him while I'm in the room and I keep them in the room.  (If I'm in and out with just food, etc, I don't bother changing clothes).  I wash the PJ's 2 or 3 times a week in hot water and add a touch of disinfectant.  I wash the sheet on the bed once a week minimum.  I have two pillows on the bed I will throw away when I get the all clear.  Perhaps I should just toss now ?

I use my black light to check the status of his RW.  I'm lucky (lol) in that he has the M. Canis strain which I'm told is the only RW strain that shows up with blacklights and that only 50% of M. Canis shows up as well.  My guy lights up like a Christmas tree so I can easily monitor any new spots (although the oral med is working its magic internally).  He does light up on the tip of his nose, but I have no clue how to treat topically.  Vet said no need as oral medication taking care of it.

BTW my vet suggested minimum 30 day quarantine from the day we started the fluconazole.  I have an appointment on day 30.  If it looks fantastic, he suggests two more weeks after that.  Then my kitty can make bail and get back to the real life house living with my 9 yo and myself   The jail break is set for March 31st.

I haven't decided if I'm gonna bother with another PCR or toothbrush test.  If I don't come into any extra $ in 30 days, I'll consider the toothbrush test, but I'm not getting warm feelings about it as I've learned so much about the false positives when they really are healed of the RW.  My vet totally respects ones budget and says he has had many clients who forgo the tests and just follow his lead on the time line.  Some have succeeded, others haven't.  I believe I'm attacking it on the most important fronts that to you guys and Dr. Karen have taught me, so I'm feeling pretty confident right now although I may have a change of heart in 3 weeks.   Any thoughts/tips/tricks on what you guys think of this plan?

BlackSakura6 ...I wonder if your guy is having a reaction to the fluconazole as different cats can react differently to the same medicine and food just like humans.  I mean why do some cats get crystals and others don't in the same household eating the exact same food ??  Different body chemistry I'm thinking.

As a side note, my kitty is still on Famciclovir (75mg once a day) for his herpes conjunctivitis/eye ulcers.  We started this a few days after I brought him home 19 days ago.  With this (and other stuff he is on possibly) I have seen him transform into a happy, playful, energetic normal 6 mo old kitten.  THAT makes me the happiest when I see my "kids" happy and their health improve.  Would you believe I even discovered this little guy plays fetch ???  I was dumbfounded when I first saw it.  He is a pretty special guy and fills my heart with much love.  My instincts were screaming to get a 2nd cat for myself and my 9 yo cat and I'm glad I followed them

LonghornMom: FYI  If I happen to get a RW spot I'll do the Monist at 7 topically and garlic orally. I saw BlackSakura6 mentioned neem and chlorela 2 boost our immune systems as well.  And you've prolly already checked the FLEAS forum for the tapeworms ?  All tapeworms I've encountered have been white or off-white..not orange.  I posted on the FLEAS forum about safe FOOD GRADE DE that may help.

Much love to each and everyone one of you for all your concern and help...from individual posting members, to the moderators to the creators of TheCatSite.Com.  And a shout out to Dr. Karen for that wonderful video.  Now I'm understanding this RW much better and am not washing and disinfecting 24/7 which I can't do anyway.  Much needed relief of mind when you get such good education and support!

 

[nekohugger]

Hi there, my kitten was tested positive for ringworm and i had a few questions.

1. My doctor recommended 1.8 ml of Sporanox daily, he is a bit over 8 lbs - does this sound accurate? What was your dosage?

2. I have been dipping him on my own every 5 days, i believe i did dip 5 today but i have no clue as to how long i have to soak him for? To be honest i feel like i may be apply the dip longer than i have to. I usually have him in a mop bucket with the dip up to about mid-front chest while i use a rag for about 15 minutes. He cries the entire time ringing through my ears but hes too kind and scared to try to flee. My ears actually popped this time around :/.

3. What was once infected spots has migrated towards the ends of his hairs however its too stuck for me to comb out, Im afraid that these spores may recontaminate him or get passed onto me how can i get rid of these? I tried when he was soaked but they still held on and are too close to the skin for me to comfortably cut. (I had him shaved down 3 weeks ago)

4. I bought a 50 PPM collodial silver spray to erlp with the lesions however it just seems to darken the area and cause a lot of flaky dead skin to surface the next day. I'm having to do double the vaccum work because of the dead skin. Can someone please let me know if this is how it is meant to work? I cant tell if its helping the lesions or not....

For anyone not near a Costco's - I got Sporanox from my local Walgreens for $93 (it was originally 1 something but they used a spare discount for me) meanwhile the pharmacy my vet reccommened was charging $350 psh!

For anyone whose baby gets a secondary infection - my cat had a really BAD infection on his neck, it was extremely raw meat exposed and on top it was covered with dark dried puss or goo and the surrounding hair was hard and matted and when he meowed it sound like he was losing his voice. My vet was out the day I visited for this and the one I saw wanted to give an injection immediately that stays in the body for 60 days however I said no and asked for Clavamox and now a week later with Clavamox his neck looks healed although I'll be using it for 1 more week for assurance.

So far I have Borax and Laundry guard, I also read that apple cider vinegar helps kill the spores so I've been mopping with that and plan to get Accel next week and a Miele Vacuum perhaps the following week or the one after.

Thank you soooooo much for this post, it has been a HUGE help! The site in general is where I turn to for all my cat needs and have not been let down.

 

[bunnelina]

Hi Neko,

Welcome to our thread! I hope some others who have more recent experience will chime in here, too. It sounds like you are on the right track, and thanks for your kind words!

To answer your questions:

1. You have an 8-pound kitten? Wow! Most of us are dealing with much smaller ones and not always as efficiently as you seem to be. None of us here are vets, so we can't tell you the correct dose for that weight. I called the pharmacy at my local big vet hospital (Angell Memorial in Boston) and asked them to confirm the dosage, which they did. And thank you for reminding us that there are cheaper ways to get some of these medications. I got mine with our AAA discount at CVS and it was reasonable. Costco and Walgreen's can also save us money and might take AAA, too.

2.  When dipping, all you need to do is saturate the kitten. Get him soaked to the skin as fast as you can and then let him air dry. It's not necessary to make him stew and cry for so long! Once the stuff is on him, you are basically done. You know how, for new medical residents in hospitals, it's "See one, do one, teach one" as they learn to do procedures on patients? You are now an experienced dipper. Your challenge now is to become the fastest, least-upsetting dipper you can be. Your kitten will be very grateful... although he's a cat so he won't tell you. It's great that are you are doing it often, and you may be able to start doing it less often after a while; ask your vet.

3.  If he is shaved, and he isn't having discomfort from actual mats, I would leave those nasty places alone after making sure they are saturated with lime-sulfur during dips. If their physical appearance is bothering you simply for aesthetic reasons, just remind yourself that Dr. Moriello tells us that cats can be healing, and even cured before they look normal again. Your lime-sulfur and Sporanox are doing their work, eradicating the fungus from him systems inside and out. The skin and fur's regeneration may take a little longer. If those areas are bothering the cat, however, ask your vet about clipping out just those spots or if there's a healing topical treatment that is proven to be effective. But keep in mind that shaving can cause microscopic, or larger, cuts to the skin, and ringworm tends to like those cuts, so clipping usually isn't recommended unless the cat is in really bad shape. It sounds like yours may have been, but be wary of clipping close to the skin if there's already a bad problem there.

4. I've never heard of a vet recommending colloidal silver and I don't think Dr. Moriello has done any research on it. Sporanox and lime-sulfur are really all you need according to her. Here's a link to Shelter Medicine and Dr. Moriello's info from UC Davis: Ringworm (Dermaphytosis). And here's a direct quote: 

 “Natural” treatments often suggested on well-meaning pet websites such as apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, tea tree oil, papaya, garlic, grapefruit seed extract, colloidal silver, betadine, and topical bleach are not effective and some of these home remedies are toxic to pets.

If you simply stick with the recommended treatment, you really should be fine, and you'll save you and the kitten some time and trouble... which you can spend on cleaning (and he can spend on playing and being a kitten, I hope). Best of luck to you, and thanks for those questions, which will be helpful for others here to read about, too!  Please let us know things are going. Will your vet offer PCR cultures? I hope so! 

Bunnelina

 

[nekohugger]

Hi Bunnelina!!!! Thank you so much for replying and so quickly at that! I am only following the path you helped lay out for me and everyone here

So I called my local big hospital after seeing this and they confirmed that the dosage is accurate. I've been here before and they were all knowledgeable and kind and capable so I'll gladly place my trust in them. Cslling them is something else i wouldve never thought of but will always do in the future from now on so another big thanks!

My instinct told me I may have been doing the dipping for an exaggerated amount of time but I had no clue just how quick it can be! The doctor directed me to wash prior to dipping and with all these dips i am now a pro washer and dipper lol. It used to take me 15 minutes to wash him (fleas) but now, in 2 minutes I'm done and onto the dip. I actually contenplated just having the vet dip him after this weekend because everytime i finish - i come out sweating as though i was in a sauna and my back aches all over from bending or knees from kneeling. Some days i just sat in the tub with the bucket between my legs and dipped him that way just because it was the most comfortable position for both of us. Since that left me closer to him - he was a tad bit calmer.

I regrettably didn't shave his face and he is long haired so that explains the matting. Although i combed them out last night while wet, this morning it was back to being matted. He's been scratching at them as well so chunks of hair are all over the place. He allows me to touch the area, in fact he loves when i do and becons for me to scratch it but i still dont feel safe to cut it on my own so i will drop him off at the vet tomorrow before work if the groomer is there.

You're absolutely right, i don't want to put more work in where it isn't needed. No more spray down sessions with the collodial silver for me. - I read all 13 pages of this thread including the one about the PCR cultures and took screenshots since my memory is limited lol! I plan on asking about it tomorrow. I know I wont be happy with the price since the regular 5-14 day one was $90 at my vet but mamas gotta do what mommas gotta do right?

I just cant wait for this little guy to live the life of a normal kitten. I adopted him in october and hes had everything sonce day 1: round worms, fleas, tape worms, foreign body, ring worms, ear mites, i just want him to catch a break (and my wallet) haha.....i'll be sure to keep you guys updated.

 

[fdxr]

 
2.  When dipping, all you need to do is saturate the kitten. Get him soaked to the skin as fast as you can and then let him air dry. It's not necessary to make him stew and cry for so long! Once the stuff is on him, you are basically done. You know how, for new medical residents in hospitals, it's "See one, do one, teach one" as they learn to do procedures on patients? You are now an experienced dipper. Your challenge now is to become the fastest, least-upsetting dipper you can be. Your kitten will be very grateful... although he's a cat so he won't tell you. It's great that are you are doing it often, and you may be able to start doing it less often after a while; ask your vet.

1. Do you have to bathe the cat/kitten first before dipping to get the oils off so the dip "locks on" better ?

2. YouTube video said 1 oz of dip to 1/2 gallon of water (2oz to 1 gallon) for kittens.  My guy is 6 months old and weighs 7 lbs. 

I see directions says 4 oz. 

3. Is it a must to have a collar on after the dip to make sure they don't lick it off ?  If so, keep colar on until completely dry ?  Won't they still lick up the dip after it dries with regular grooming ?

4. My kitten is a siamese, so I can expect the white fur to be yellow for a week or so ?

 

[fdxr]

So grateful to have found this thread, as we have been battling ringworm with our rescued 9 month old cat.
In November 2015 we adopted Flynn. Within about two weeks, he quickly developed a crusty lesion over his eye and the hair fell out. I immediately contacted the rescue home and she was kind enough to take him back to quarantine and treat him. When we brought him back home (four weeks later) in early January we thought he was over ringworm (he was treated topically and orally). Meanwhile, I bleached and cleaned everything!
In mid January, two weeks after Flynn returned home, I spotted a crusty lesion on his ear-ugh! We decided not to return him to the rescue, because of the stress on Flynn. Our vet couldn't find Sporonox for less than $340 so the rescue sent us itraconazole-28 day treatment. We are also giving weekly lime-sulphur dips/Malaseb and topical Conofite. He seemed to be recovering well and the ear was healing/growing hair.
Well, exactly four weeks later, we found a new bald spot *insert crying here*. It is on the back of his neck. Today, the vet shaved the new spot and the ear that still has some crusting. We are going to continue the itraconozale (which I believe is the compound-not Sporonox) and I will try Lamisil cream as a different topical-per our vet.
This is so frustrating! But so far, the kids, husband and dog are ringworm free. I've had a few itchy spots, but not true ring shaped areas. Tea tree oil treatment has dissolved them, but not sure if they're ringworm.
I am getting conflicting advice. I just talked to the rescue lady today and she was angry that the vet shaved Flynn and said he is now capable of spreading more active spores. She also wants me to stop lime-sulphur and use apple cider vinegar.
One encouraging thing is that the new spot is just bald...not crusty or red. Could the systemic itraconozale be working enough to keep it from being a fully active lesion?
Flynn is not confined to one room. He roams the living room, family room and kitchen, but we have all bedrooms and bathrooms closed off. I vacuum, Swiffer, wipe surfaces, wash, Lysol...every day or every other day. This nightmare has been going on since November!
My gut tells me to continue the oral for a while, continue with the lime-sulphur (Flynn doesn't mind) and try Lamisil as a different topical.
Flynn was abandoned, put in a shelter, and then rescued, so he's had a rough start. The thought of surrendering him has crossed my mind with this darn ringworm, but this thread has certainly been encouraging. Thank you!

My vet's time table is this:

After 7 days on oral med he checks to see if its working.

If oral med is working, I have a recheck in 30days (from start of oral med).

If we get the "all clear" at 30 day check, he adds 2 weeks to that.

So my kitten is on the "45 day plan" as I'm playing it safe to avoid my long-haired 9 year old cat from joining our RW party.

I'm lucky in that my new RW kitten is okay being isolated in my guest bedroom so it doesn't tear me up like it normally does (:

Bad news is we're talking carpeting, ugh.

When your vet made switch from lime sulphur dip to apple cider vinegar, is that to dip the kitty in as well ?  I'm having some aversion to the lime sulphur dip and haven't gotten to it.

Hang in there as it sounds like you're almost outta the woods!  I have similar situation with my newly adopted kitten (more stuff than RW going on) and its been overwhelming to say the least !!

 

[bunnelina]

 
1. Do you have to bathe the cat/kitten first before dipping to get the oils off so the dip "locks on" better ?

2. YouTube video said 1 oz of dip to 1/2 gallon of water (2oz to 1 gallon) for kittens.  My guy is 6 months old and weighs 7 lbs. 

I see directions says 4 oz. 

3. Is it a must to have a collar on after the dip to make sure they don't lick it off ?  If so, keep colar on until completely dry ?  Won't they still lick up the dip after it dries with regular grooming ?

4. My kitten is a siamese, so I can expect the white fur to be yellow for a week or so ?

Hi there,

i. No, you just need to do the dip.  I'm not sure what oils you are thinking of, but if you mean the natural oils in fur, don't worry, the dip will saturate fur. Then don't rinse the kitten, let him air dry. But do try to keep him warm as he dries. 

2.  There might be different strengths of lime-sulfur in different products, so I'd see what your bottle says. The stuff smells fierce at almost any concentration, so don't go by smell. You don't want the concentration to be so weak that it doesn't do the job and all of your effort was a waste. The directions on the bottle shouldn't steer you wrong if they are specific to cats/kittens. I'd use that concentration at least once, and if it was so powerful that it was killing us all, I'd dilute it a bit the next time.

3.  There's no reason to use a collar. Cats will lick the stuff if they want to, but mine weren't that interested; it must taste awful. It will remain on their fur for quite some time, and you can't prevent them from licking themselves forever, so don't worry about it.  Remember that as cats lick themselves, they also remove ringworm spores from their fur; it's how cats normally keep themselves not only clean but ringworm free.

4.  Yes. The more he licks it off, the whiter and more normal-looking he will be! But if you're dipping once or twice a week, you will have a yellowish cat again, each time.

You can read more about dipping here: 

https://www.giveshelter.org/dermatophyte-treatment-in-a-nutshell.html

I expected the whole thing to be horrible for our four cats but they accepted it with little complaint and we actually got used to the smell. Some of the bottled solutions are stronger/stinkier than others. There was one that triggered my asthma for days, so we switched to another brand and I was fine.  I was very fortunate to have a groomer who dipped our four for us; we couldn't do it in our apartment building or our neighbors would have sued us; they were extremely litigious and dying to find any excuse. Plus the asthma. The dipping became the "new normal" for the cats and it was a good thing because they needed it for many weeks while we waited for culture results to be negative.

I hope this helps! 

 

[bunnelina]

When your vet made switch from lime sulphur dip to apple cider vinegar, is that to dip the kitty in as well ?  I'm having some aversion to the lime sulphur dip and haven't gotten to it.

Hi there,

Lime sulfur dip treats ringworm; vinegar does not. For info, read backwards in this thread or just go here:

https://www.giveshelter.org/dermatophyte-treatment-in-a-nutshell.html

If you're hating the idea of the dip, I don't blame you, but it also provides peace of mind — not only does it kill the spores, it makes your cat much less contagious. And once it's dry, it's really not that bad. 

Hang in there..... this (really, really) too shall pass!

 

[fdxr]

I DID IT !!!

First Lime Sulfur for my 6 mo old kitten.

TY all for your help.

1. Actual dip went so smooth as I was able to prepare with everyone's help.  Having everything out and ready to go seemed key to me. 

My kitty was a champ.  At one point he just sat down !

I scruffed him with one hand and poured the dip over him with the other.

I used a clean litter pan in the tub and had the 1 gallon mixture of very very warm water and 4 oz of dip ready to go.

I used 4 oz of dip because this is what the bottle initially instructed and I didn't want to go overboard since he is a kitty....yet vet said

he prolly fell into the cat category since he is 7 lbs (not several weeks old).  There were no instructions on the bottle for a separate kitten vs adult dose.  Also because the bottle said use 8 oz for more chronic and resistant cases.

I may use 8 oz next time if I'm happy with these results, but so far he only has 3 lesions.

Also I started this at 9:30 PM so I was careful not to trigger a trip to the emergency vet lol ($$$)

2. I did NOT shampoo as the bottle and YouTube video instructed.  I decided the dip was all I could take on tonight.

3. I bought a cloth e-collar as I didn't see the responses to this thread before I started the dip.  

I'm confused on why the bottle gives instructions on what to do if ingestion occurs yet I've read that it would be okay for them to lick it off.

Bottle says "Do not allow the animal to lick hair coat until dry to prevent ingestion."

Well I had unexpected issues with the e-collar.

He kept getting his paws stuck in it every time he tried to walk.  I folded the e-collar which helped.

4. I let him drip for 30 minutes in a carrier.  I lined the carrier with a paper bag to absorb the dip so he wasn't sitting in it longer than necessary.

I also wiped the excess dip inside the carrier while he was in it.  This helped a lot since my little guy started going nuts in the carrier and started

chewing and clawing like crazy on the metal door.  I had to calm him down and ended up only keeping him in the carrier for 30 minutes.

5. Then I kept the e-collar on when I let him back into his room.  But we kept having problems with it so I took it off.  But being unsure of the safety of him licking his fur (which he did), I put the collar back on (avoid ER vet!!).  It was very labor intensive.  I ended up playing with him to distraction for 1.5 hours while he dried.  I also had his food and treats ready which distracted him as well.

I could not stop him from licking his fur so I was VERY relieved when Bunnelina and that link said it was okay.

6. My best laid plans of vacuuming/disinfecting his room while he drip dried went out the window when he went crazy in the carrier.

But I made it through and am an example for anyone else who is solo in this adventure of dipping.

7. Because my guy only has 1 eye and the worst RW spot is directly above it, my goal was only to get the other RW spores off of him from his neck down to control the contamination.  Yet I did call an audible and use a cotton ball dipped in the dip and gingerly dapped the lesion above his eye.  I also was able to get under his chin, on the sides of his face and on top of his ears. 

8. Now that its over you guys are right... Peace of Mind that I killed some of the RW bad boy spores.

9. I used "Vet Basics" Lime Sulfur dip.  Surprisingly I didn't find the smell near as bad as I've been told !  Yet I did hook up my air purifier during prep.

10. I also found I didn't change clothes when I was running from one room to the next, so I may have carried cat hair and RW spores throughout the house...I waived the white flag as I couldn't do it all in a home environment. 

WHEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   And hats off to everyone who has to do more than 1 cat.    WOW

 

[fdxr]

 
. The dipping became the "new normal" for the cats and it was a good thing because they needed it for many weeks while we waited for culture results to be negative.

YES this all was so very helpful !!!

What was your timeline on taking cultures to decide when you could stop dipping ?

So many days after discovery, start of oral meds, and/or start of the lime sulfur dips ??

Did you just do the toothbrush test or the PCR test ?

If money is an issue my vet says he suggests total of 45 days after the start of the oral treatment if all looks well after 30 days ... I noticed Morel, the original from Maddie's Fund,  was cured in 43 days as well.  But I also noticed Dr Moriello said they can look good but still have the darn RW infection.

 

[blacksakura6]

Took Graysan in today for his re-check and told the doctor that a new lesion popped up on his chest this past Friday.  So now we are going to put him on oral terbinafine.  Yong Gi is doing extremely well but we also decided to switch him to it as well for fear that we may have a fluconazole resistant strain. (Something that I read is possible and the doctor agreed).  Other than that everything in Graysan's blood work is normal.  The infection seems to be under control from the Convenia.  And the older lesions are starting to grow hair.  

Graysan has had 3 baths with the MiconaHex+Triz Shampoo and he seems to do much better with it.   He really seems relieved afterwards.  Less itchy.  I truly believe that despite the allergic reaction the dips must have killed a lot of spores and assisted in keeping it out of the environment during initial decontamination.  Sad that he could not tolerate it.

She told us to keep up the shampoo baths 2 times a week (or at least once a week if he becomes intolerant of it) until he returns in 3-4 weeks for his next re-check.  He will be cultured then to see if we have it under control.  We have suspended dips for Yong Gi at the moment. It has been two weeks since his culture and no growth so far.  No new lesions and his hair is completely back in.  Still watching.  She said that the orals should be enough from here out for Yong Gi. (Both had 3 lime-sulfur dips before we stopped)   Obviously, if we see any new lesions to let her know and resume the dips on him. *keeping fingers crossed* x(_  _)x

So I am still continuing as a dust busting machine but we are now doing weekly decontamination with Citrus II on floors and Accel on other surfaces.  Vinegar on kitchen chairs and places where I do not wish to damage or discolor the furniture.  Sheets on couches that are changed often and bi-weekly vacuuming.  (I think the Swiffer cloths do a much better job daily for us because we have predominantly wood and linoleum flooring...  Only a runner rug in the hall and one throw rug in the living room.) Also, washing the blankets on our bed twice a week and drying them for 2 hours at minimum.  

No lesions on either of us yet.  We have been avoiding going to my mother's so as not to pass anything to them until we feel more secure.  I miss having Sho here in the house and I miss seeing Tsen.  We still have a few months of dealing with this but I feel more optimistic and look forward to getting my household back together.  

 

[blacksakura6]

 
I DID IT !!!

First Lime Sulfur for my 6 mo old kitten. [EDIT]

YAY!  Congratulations!  

So glad that you made it through!  I know the first time I dipped my cats I was so shaky and worried for them.  I am really grateful for all of the help and encouragement that people here on the board gave me!  Dipping, IMO, really does help a lot.  And while you are disinfecting it helps to keep active spores from recontaminating the environment.  

The only reason we used cones is because my Vet said that if they lick the dip it can make them really nauseous and they can vomit.  I did not want that.
 

 I used "Vet Basics" Lime Sulfur dip.  Surprisingly I didn't find the smell near as bad as I've been told !   

I agree!!  'Vet Basics' dip is not really that bad (Thank you to all who recommended it!).  We just cracked a window open for ventilation but we were surprised that the smell was not as awful as we were expecting.  If anyone has fermented food (like kimchi or sauerkraut) it's not much worse.  Needless to say we are used to those smells here in my household so it was not a problem!  My husband could have had lentil soup and created a much worse smell...  

 

My best laid plans of vacuuming/disinfecting his room while he drip dried went out the window when he went crazy in the carrier.
But I made it through and am an example for anyone else who is solo in this adventure of dipping.

Bless you for being able to solo dip!   I needed help with my guys.  Graysan and YG were thrashing around in the crates and we had to calm them down as well...  Once they were damp enough to let out they were calm.  Hubby just watched them to make sure they did not fall of put the collars off.  I have read that several people did not use the collars and their babies were okay.  I am just paranoid that I would have the one cat that would get sick from it and have to be rushed in.

I had my husband stay in the room and monitor them while I ran around and cleaned.    After you dip and your sweetie is dry just start cleaning as best as you can.  Do about 20-30 minutes here and there every day. Definitely, invest in Swiffer cloths and pads to wipe and discard!  I took the Swiffer challenge and lost!  

 

  I am still amazed at how much dust I collect every day and even when this is over I am going to keep Swiffer cloths in the house! 

Graysan had the full run of the house starting in November 2015 and was not suspected to have ringworm until December 31, 2015.  Not confirmed until January 2016!   So there was no point in confining him.  The spores were everywhere by then!  I just decided to put them in the bedroom once a week and do a full disinfection on whatever I could and during the week dust everything I can and if necessary run a vinegar mopping on the floor midweek...  At least the cats can walk on the vinegar if it is wet and it won't hurt them.   We threw out almost every soft toy they had and only kept three that we could wash and put in the dryer for a few hours.  Those toys have been put away until this is over.   Cat furniture has been steamed twice and then cleaned down with Accel.  Hopefully, it is enough to get rid of the spores because we really do not want to throw out our cat trees.

We plan to buy them all new feather toys and teasers also.  I don't know what toys and objects you have but if you can not clean them throw them out and get new ones...  Not worth holding on to the extra spores...  So happy that you got the dips started!  Hope all goes well for you!  Do the best you can as that is all that we can do!   

 

[fdxr]

 
The only reason we used cones is because my Vet said that if they lick the dip it can make them really nauseous and they can vomit.  I did not want that.
 

I agree!!  'Vet Basics' dip is not really that bad (Thank you to all who recommended it!).  We just cracked a window open for ventilation but we were surprised that the smell was not as awful as we were expecting.  If anyone has fermented food (like kimchi or sauerkraut) it's not much worse.  Needless to say we are used to those smells here in my household so it was not a problem!  My husband could have had lentil soup and created a much worse smell...  

 

Bless you for being able to solo dip!   I needed help with my guys.  Graysan and YG were thrashing around in the crates and we had to calm them down as well...  Once they were damp enough to let out they were calm.  Hubby just watched them to make sure they did not fall of put the collars off.  I have read that several people did not use the collars and their babies were okay.  I am just paranoid that I would have the one cat that would get sick from it and have to be rushed in.

I had my husband stay in the room and monitor them while I ran around and cleaned.    After you dip and your sweetie is dry just start cleaning as best as you can.  Do about 20-30 minutes here and there every day. Definitely, invest in Swiffer cloths and pads to wipe and discard!  I took the Swiffer challenge and lost!  

 

  I am still amazed at how much dust I collect every day and even when this is over I am going to keep Swiffer cloths in the house! 

Graysan had the full run of the house starting in November 2015 and was not suspected to have ringworm until December 31, 2015.  Not confirmed until January 2016!   So there was no point in confining him.  The spores were everywhere by then!  I just decided to put them in the bedroom once a week and do a full disinfection on whatever I could and during the week dust everything I can and if necessary run a vinegar mopping on the floor midweek...  At least the cats can walk on the vinegar if it is wet and it won't hurt them.   We threw out almost every soft toy they had and only kept three that we could wash and put in the dryer for a few hours.  Those toys have been put away until this is over.   Cat furniture has been steamed twice and then cleaned down with Accel.  Hopefully, it is enough to get rid of the spores because we really do not want to throw out our cat trees.

We plan to buy them all new feather toys and teasers also.  I don't know what toys and objects you have but if you can not clean them throw them out and get new ones...  Not worth holding on to the extra spores...  So happy that you got the dips started!  Hope all goes well for you!  Do the best you can as that is all that we can do!   

Good to know about the nauseous, TY!  It made me sick when he was licking the dip before it dried.  He seemed a tad out of sorts today so that may be why.  He seems to be coming around now almost 24 hours later.

In reference to the dip smell....funny you mentioned the kimchi or sauerkraut, as I'm adding those to my own diet right now.  Fermented foods are sooooo good for us !

After sending my post last night I realized that  of course the dip didn't smell that bad since I only used 4 oz lol.  Silly me for making that statement.  YET when I got in the car this morning it smelled funky.

Palm against the forehead moment...I washed and rinsed everything except the carrier I had him drip dry in and I put the carrier in the garage...duh !!!   And then when I got back home today I smelled the dip inside the house (I had gotten used to it so didn't smell it anymore).

My over-achiever in me is now wondering if I was successful only using 4 oz.  I saw the expert threads/info saying you needed the 8 oz concentration.  Next time I'll use the 8 oz unless anyone sees a reason not to.

I wish I could see the spores.  Fighting these invisible little guys isn't playing fair!  Yet I'm "lucky" that he has M. Canis so the active stuff reacts great to my black light. 

I feel for you guys with Graysan being in the entire house for 2 months before you got confirmation of the RW.  My guy had just been introduced to my 9 yo cat for 15 minutes before I had the vet appointment with the RW discovery.  I also let him investigate and play in the entire house for a number of hours during the week before the RW discovery.  I can't imagine keeping up with an entire house day in and day out as I can't do everything I want to do now just in the guest/isolation room. 

I threw out a few toys in the beginning yet ended up being very selective on which toys he has in his room. Luckily he is into rolling balls on that front.  I use Shaklee's Basic-G diluted and spray it on everything.  Its been doing a wonderful job.  I ended up keeping a cat tree in his room as it was too late and too much of a pain to move.  I just vacuum it really really good and spray the diluted Basic-G on it.  I also sprayed the Basic-G on the curtains as I haven't had the time or energy to take those down and wash yet.  I also ended up putting a few drops of Basic-G in the laundry until I read from Dr. Karen I think that that wasn't necessary...just wash as normal in hot water and hot dryer. Don't quote me on that as I've gotten a few other things wrong before during this RW party.    If I start seeing any new lesions I'll know I need to change it up but that is what has been getting me through for now.

 

[nekohugger]

Just a mini update, I woke up the following night at 2 AM and was able to cut off all of his matted ends, he's doing much better and we're sleeping together agai. (Couldn't help myself) next dip is due tomorrow and pulse therapy of sporanox will be off for 7 days after tomm.

 

[fdxr]

I found ringworm on  my neck.  Treating with Monistat 7 topically. 

I had it 10 years ago and can't remember if I need to go to DR and treat orally as well ??