Jimmy is having a breakthrough!!

Those are great updates! He is on the verge of trying to make a breakthrough, isn't he! Maybe if you tried offering it on an outstretched spoon first? That way he has still taken food you have offered, but he doesn't have to get so close to your hand right away. It also keeps your hands a bit safer at first. I always started with a spoon. I also wouldn't bother with a picture at first. I think you're right, it would spook him. As much as we'd all love to see him do it...

There is no doubt in my mind that you will have Jimmy eating out of your hand in no time. Just keep doing what you are doing, you are doing a great job.

I have never even thought about a spoon. That is a great idea!.. I get off work in a couple hrs and can't wait to see what the day brings......

Jimmy is beautiful...
He looks like he wants to trust but his DNA still says NO!
He will learn Jenn.

Originally Posted by xocats

Jimmy is beautiful...
He looks like he wants to trust but his DNA still says NO!

He will learn Jenn.

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This is all true regarding the big guy. I love tuxedo cats and he's one of the most handsome I've ever seen. As Jenn said he comes from a long line of ferals and I'm not surprised his DNA is a factor. His mother, a gorgeous Siamese mix, was a bear to trap. She was so street smart it took an experienced TNR person several years and many attempts to finally trap her. In many ways, Jimmy takes after his mom.

If anyone can get him to take that next step, it's you Jenn. Just look how far he's come in the time he's been with you. It will happen!

Jimmy is beautiful.
I feel sure that it won't be long that you'll be posting pictures of Jimmy sitting on your lap.
I get the feeling from reading about his progress that in his little heart he wants to eat the food off of your finger, but his head is just over riding it right now.
Before very long his heart is going to win out.

It has never crossed my mind about DNA having something to do with feral. That is interesting and will give me something to research and read about.

With my plan of laying down close to Jimmy, I do believe it is effecting him. One other thing I am now doing is dressing in the bedroom instead of the restroom at night so that Jimmy sees me blowdry my hair and get dressed. I mostly just ignore him but not because he is feral. It is because I am busy getting ready for work. And he watches me in my routine of things.

But tonight after I got ready for work, I went back to the restroom to return some items and Jimmy was sitting in there. I had never seen him in there. And what amazed me was that he was not spooked at all. He walked back to the bedroom. I followed him and he sat a couple feet away while I got dressed. I petted the others and he sat and watched. I held my hand out and talked to him but he did not approach me. OR run..

The most major fact is that he does not run when I am next to him... That is the single largest telling factor about Jimmy and his progress. The hair dryer does not spook him. My opening and closing drawers does not spook him. Me getting stuff out of the closet does not spook him. Me walking around in a hurry in the bedroom does not spook him. Me kneeling close to him does not spook him. Me holding my hand out to him 1/2 foot away does not spook him. These are major major things for Jimmy. These things might be nothing to some "ferals" but to Jimmy it is a leap into another realm... He is joining the world of loved kitties.

Something else I have noticed is that when I am taking pics of him now, he does not have that wide eyes saucer look. Someone else mentioned that as well. He is easier to photograph doing things now since he not as focused on me and how close I am to him.

This was a cat who stayed inside a closet in my house for close to three months before even coming into the room except to use a litter box. He lived in his crate/cave and that was his only security in a strange world. And he only used the litter at night with the lights out creeping. He was absolutely scared to death of any human being around him. He very slowly started exploring his world in our house during the cover of night.

It has been a slow process. But I will say this. I have always kept his crate that Elly gave us near him in case he needed it. But he has not used it since we moved. The move was good for him. He moved but he realized the bond that we all have. Cats, people and dogs.

Elly, I have a question. Tell me about the colony Jimmy came from originally. How many were in it? I'm just curious as to what Millie knows of his origin and the others who were his role models. Another question is does millie "the approx generation of ferals that Jimmy came from"...?

Originally Posted by jcribbs

It has never crossed my mind about DNA having something to do with feral. That is interesting and will give me something to research and read about.

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Jimmy is smart. He is processing the new info he is observing about humans & how safe he might be inside.

When I used the term DNA...
I was loosely using it to mean the first imprints that Jimmy received from his mother or tribe as a kitten....not his genetic map.
I was not referring to nature (DNA) ---- but nurture, what his mother taught him as a new born about humans & threat.

Nurture can have a powerful influence on how he preserves you and his new environment.
That is good news because he is changing his behavior.
What a wonderful boy Jimmy is.
You have the patience of a saint Jenn.

You got me thinking Jenn...
I wonder if there is a DNA component involved in a generational line of feral cats vs several generations of domestic kitties?
Would becoming domesticated, over time, change future generations DNA?
Interesting subject.

Originally Posted by eilcon

As Jenn said he comes from a long line of ferals and I'm not surprised his DNA is a factor. His mother, a gorgeous Siamese mix, was a bear to trap. She was so street smart it took an experienced TNR person several years and many attempts to finally trap her. In many ways, Jimmy takes after his mom.

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I too have dealt with ferals that were at least 3 generations into being feral (and probably longer but don't know the history before that). They have turned around and it wasn't any more difficult than earlier generations. Anything beyond first generation doesn't seem to make a difference. Sometimes first generations are really dumped strays that have at least a little bit of socialization to them.

I love this thread!!! Thanks for sharing Jenn!

You got me thinking Jenn...
I wonder if there is a DNA component involved in a generational line of feral cats vs several generations of domestic kitties?
Would becoming domesticated, over time, change future generations DNA?

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Nurture and not genetic....... that makes more sense and very interesting. But what you have suggested above I think is very very true coming from the nurturing aspect of things. But I feel that all depends on other factors as well....... Imbreeding...... Imbreeding does not strengthen a species. It makes it weaker genetically.

From a nuturing standpoint: Generation one is a stray. The babies are going to be exactly like the mama except possibly have no human contact. And I would think with that third generation, which would be their babies, they would be extremely more fearful not having human contact. And so on.

Based on my own set of cats and learned behavior, they feed off each other in emotions and in how they react to things. Cleo was a feral kitten. Star was at least a 2nd generation feral. Mama was a stray. Jimmy is a hard core feral. Turtle was a feral probably 2nd generation based on how she acts. She is ok but does not like being touched much. Only a few seconds at a time. No purring ever. Mama's babies which are two years old now have developed a lot of feral personality traits from these cats just by being with Cleo and Star and the others. Such as running and hiding if someone comes in the house. And they were socialized. I had them from birth in my house. But as they grew older they saw how the ferals in my home reacted to strangers and other situations and they developed the same trailts. And there is nothing I can do to change that. I accept them as they are. They see me as part of their cat group.

I would think then that a true feral colony such as the one Jimmy came from has all their emotions entirely based on fear. Fear of no food, fear of humans, fear of moving cars, fear of weather, fear of dogs and so on.....

It's hard to change in that situation.. And there would really be no need for them to change unless trapped and forced to live with people to learn a new behavior. Humans are the same in that aspect as far as learned behaviors. Take for instance a good southern family raised to hate people of other nationalities. [just an example and a very general one at that]... If they stay in that type of environment they will never learn a different behavior, even if they see and know there are other ways. It's easier to follow the crowd and not stand out. No one wants to make their rock shine because it takes work. It would take living a different life and emersing yourself with more intelligent people to actually make that change. This is probably a very dumb comparison but I am trying to think of a human behavior that is based on peer behavior and generalized learned behavior from a nuturing standpoint. But that could really be anything or parents and our peers teach us. I am using this because it is extremely hard to make someone prejudice unless they were nurtured by prejudice parents. And since I live in the Ozarks, this is the first thing that came to mind. There is a generalized colony of people in the Ozarks with a lot of common behavior and thought traits... I don't say that lightly.. Standing out as a feral is a death sentence just like standing out as a shiny rock in the Ozark Mountains. I am not a native from this area and when we first moved here we were met with utter suspicion. It took a while to be accepted in the human race here. We were not dull enough yet.....hehe Now we look like one of the crowd and I will go to the corner store in my houseshoes. But in case you were wondering, our light still shines bright....... People and animals eventually adapt.. They never forget who they are or where they came from. Just like a feral cat. Ferals never forget. They just might learn a better way of life with time. I come from a culturally diverse background and my family knows a different way and a better way. One not based on fear. Fear is paralyzing to any species and will inhibit the learning process. When fear is overcome, anything is possible. To any species........

And ...that is what I think Jimmy is going through in a manner of speaking.

But as long as they are in the colony there is no reason to change. But Jimmy is getting there...... He is going to be one of the diehard ferals that change. It is so exciting to see it happen.....


Oh, and my answer to the above quote........"Yes, because only through repeated inbreeding in the same colony DNA would not change as much... Domestics are less likey to breed in their same immediate bloodline so therefore I think the DNA of domestics would be more diverse. The more ferals that become domesticated, the stronger the DNA would become as they would breed out of the colony [if not spayed/neutered]." I also think that possibly that the more the colony inbreeds, the harder it would be to tame them or socialize them but I haven't read anything about this. I am just surmising this. I think genetics play a large portion of who we are but possibly who we are nurtured by is the greater influence..

Changing thinking patterns and learned feelings and learned behaviors is always hard no matter what species we are... And it's not impossible but it IS a challenge .....to any animal species of any type.

And I love this thread too. I learn so much by posting my own experiences as the more experienced give advice.


thanks, Jenn

Juan just walked in the restroom and Jimmy was using the indoor litter box. This is the first time he has allowed us to see him use the bathroom since moving......

I was thinking of DNA in terms of nurture vs. nature too. Jenn, from what I know of the site where Jimmy came, his father was likely a feral male a tuxedo that frequented the site but was never trapped. Besides his mother, there were also several other adult ferals at the site that Millie TNR'd. Jimmy's mother was at least several years old and had numerous litters of kittens before Millie trapped her. Most of those kittens were trapped, socialized and adopted out. There were two other kittens in Jimmy's litter, both male. They were trapped at 3-4 months old and socialized. They were still a little shy when adopted, but very sweet, and went to a patient home together. Millie wasn't able to trap Jimmy until several months later, so he was probably 6-7 months at the time. So, he spent a lot longer at the site with his mom and the other adult ferals. Plenty of time to pick up their feral tendencies.

Hope that helps!

Millie is great person!!! She, so many other spend their time trapping animals so they can't reproduce. I can't imagine anything more productive in preventing stray, unloved and unwanted animals...

Did Jimmy's Mom cat fair ok when they re-released her? Did Millie ever say? Hae they been able to track her? And I bet Jimmy's father was beautiful....

Jimmy is smart. He is processing the new info he is observing about humans & how safe he might be inside.

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yep yep yep........ totally agree Xo.... and it has never been more obvious than now.

Yes, Millie has done so much good and helped many cats.

Jimmy's mom did fine. Millie still checks the site regularly and said she looks happy and healthy. She suspects Jimmy's father was a tuxedo, which makes sense because so many of the kittens that came from that site were tuxies. Unfortunately, she was never able to trap the male cat and he hasn't been seen for a long time.

Thats wonderful that she did good and that she is happier now. I have been reading lately about ferals and some people believe that some feral cats absolutely never adjust to living in a home and she was probalby one of those. It is really excellent to hear that she is happy again.

I'm glad Millie trapped Jimmy when she did. Otherwise it would have possibly been too late for him to change.

A few minutes ago while I was sitting here playing spades on the computer, I kept hearing a growling and it was Jimmy. He was about 3 feet from me in the doorway and was growling at another cat in the room. He is feeling his oats. He has never done that before either. He has been a member of the cat group here for a while but I suspect with his new feelings going on inside him, he is looking for a new spot in senority among them. He is a dominate male and he is saying "I am here by god and I am not hiding any longer!".... I suspect Felix and Festus already know that.

Sounds like Jimmy is asserting himself! I never heard him growl when he was in foster care. He did hissed A LOT, though.

This is a wonderful thread! So much love and positive life stuff. I just spent the last hour or so going through it. Jimmy looks like such a great cat. He's come a long way! You are a great, patient mom!

I don't know if it means anything but at the same time frame that Jimmy is asserting himself, Festus is also coming in the house wanting to be petted. We have lived here since Sept 19th and this week is his first voluntary entry into the house. I am not sure how this effects Jimmy but I'm sure it does... Jimmy is the last cat to decide he wants to be petted and loved on.

Festus, before the move, would approach me on the porch and want to be petted. After the move, nada. He did NOT want in the house and he would hide in the back of the cat houses under the shelter. I wa a little leery of poking my hand all the way inside in case he felt threatened. I coaxed him out with soft food and would try to pet his head while he ate. The move was hard on him.

So all this time up until three weeks ago, I have had one feral and two semi ferals in the enclosure with two absolutley refusing to come in the kat door. Jimmy was the only one who would come in the house until recently.

Felix......just one day walked in the living room like he owned it and jumped on the couch damanding to be petted. He has asserted his authority over the dogs as well. Since that day, he is in here constantly purring and being very loving. I think he was dumped and was reverting back to being feral. Initially when I came into contact with him, he had a pad ripped off and it was approx 8-9 months before I could touch him. He would hide or run if he saw me. It's unbelievable how he has changed.

Festus started coming in approx 4-5 days ago I am guessing. That is when I initially saw him inside and that is also when I quit putting food in the enclosure. They all eat inside now. Easting inside was my initial plan.... Festus likes to be petted now too. He is not as comfortable as Felix with it but he is doing great, does not run from me or act afraid. He does not rub on my legs but he will soon. I pet him and hold him every day for the last few days. He totally cooperates even though his body is a little stiff... He is just not used to it.

Jimmy's progress is directly proportational to Festus choosing to come inside as well. When Jimmy started letting me near him, this was at the same time I was able to pet Festus and also cooresponds with Festus choosing to come in the house.

Maybe Jimmy doesn't want to be the odd man out? He is the last one holding back........

I like to think it's me they love. But it could be the fear of bobcats outside.. They have been prowing around. I guess I am the lesser of the two evils. hehe

I took this photos a couple days ago with our last snow...

Look at the tracks on the outside of the enclosure door... IT IS SECURE AND HAS A TIN ROOF WITH WELDED WIRE UNDER THE TIN AND ON THE SIDES....




I followed the track was back to the back of our property. Easy to track in the snow. I reached an area not far from our house that has been marked. I could smell it. Bobcats have a real strong odor. I did not see a den. A couple weeks ago, I saw threee sets of eyes at night across the way. A neighbor reported to my husband they saw what they thought was a large bobcat. I have seen two recently driving to work.. They are out and a bout...

Oh my Jenn...
that bobcat is probably hungry & desperate because of the snow.
Be careful