I let my cats have them. I think they have the rite of being a mom and a dad. I no we have to control the population and stuff. But i'm never getting ne of my cats spayed or nuetered
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- Thread starter sadheart
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I let my cats have them. I think they have the rite of being a mom and a dad. I no we have to control the population and stuff. But i'm never getting ne of my cats spayed or nuetered
Well, first let me say welcome to TCS. I am glad you stopped in to look about and see what we were all about.
It is the overall consensus among the site's Owner, Administrators, Moderators, Mentors, Veterans and Members to spay or neuter non-pedigreed domestic cats which do not participate in a responsibly run, goal-oriented, ethical breeding program under the supervision of a knowledgable, experienced breeder well-versed in animal husbandry.
We ~will~ try to change your mind about not spaying your animals. So, you might want to remember that as you move around and begin posting here.
That all now being said, it is my sincere, heartfelt desire that you enjoy your time on the site, learn much more than you ever dreamed you needed to know and meet some new friends with a strong interest in cats and their care, welfare and health.
My continued best to you,
GayeF
It is the overall consensus among the site's Owner, Administrators, Moderators, Mentors, Veterans and Members to spay or neuter non-pedigreed domestic cats which do not participate in a responsibly run, goal-oriented, ethical breeding program under the supervision of a knowledgable, experienced breeder well-versed in animal husbandry.
We ~will~ try to change your mind about not spaying your animals. So, you might want to remember that as you move around and begin posting here.
That all now being said, it is my sincere, heartfelt desire that you enjoy your time on the site, learn much more than you ever dreamed you needed to know and meet some new friends with a strong interest in cats and their care, welfare and health.
My continued best to you,
GayeF
I've been around and reading your posts on the forum - we here at TCS encourage getting our cats desexed, unless they are RESPONSIBLE PEDIGREED cat breeders. I will push desexing cats until the day I die. I don't think I've gone a day in the last couple of years telling someone to get their cat fixed!! We only have the cats best interests at heart, you know.
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i don't get it though, so the only cats that have rite to breed a purebred? Thast not right. In my opinion that is REally not right. I have cattle and the best mixes comes when to differnet species mix. So whay can't we do that with cats? All of my cats are intermixes, and i woulnd't change them for the world. Just because they are not purebred doens't mean i'm gonna love them any less. I still let them bredd, adn I love all the kitties I get from them too, and they are all mixes. So why are u so against mixed cats to breed? Everything should have a rite to breed. Just cuz they're purebred does NOT mean they are better!
I never said Pedigree cats were any better then Domestic cats, infact they are just the same.
The reason we get Domestic cats desexed is because there are already MILLIONS of homeless ones. So you are saying your cat has a litter? and then that cats babies breed? so they breed with their own close family?
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- #6
No no no, we get a new tom every year. Me and my neighbors trade tom every year, so not brother sister mating happens. And then we usually put adds in the paper for free kittens, they're just as good a purebred, but they are free. I usually keep all of mine. My neighbor usually gives his away and gets differnet ones from the pound.and yes my cats have kittens and everyone one of them gets the chance to breed or have babies, so litters die, other don't. It just depends what cats of mine my little brother choses to play with up in heaven.
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You definitely have every right to your opinion, just as we have the right to care about the welfare of every backyard cat that is owned by either responsible pet owners, or irresponsible pet owners. Backyard breeding is risky, your flippant reply to "some litters just die" well, they don't have to die. They don't even have to be born, except for people such as yourself wanting "kittens" and not caring about health risks or concerns for the adult cats as well as the litters. In my book this does not make you a responsible cat owner. You either do not care about learning why spaying and neutering is so important, and why backyard breeding is so wrong, or you came here simply to pick a fight.
Well you have one with me, as each kitten season I am presented with orphaned babies, many of them health compromised, or pregnant moms who owners have decided they are simply not "worth the trouble to feed" and I get to take care of them. I take the females in immediately and get them spayed, and I bottle feed the orphaned kittens, praying over each one as they fight for life in a world they don't want to be in.
They don't ask to be born, they are here because someone (such as yourself) refuses to spay and neuter and allows the cats to procreate at an alarming manner- giving kittens away freely without asking that the people taking them spay or neuter the offsprings. What a waste of precious life, because many of these "free kittens" end up in horrendous situations, or worse. Shelters become crammed full with owner surrenders, putting at risk the older cats that should be adopted out, but instead are euthanized so the younger cats that are more adoptable can at least have a chance to find a good home-
Not to mention mammary cancers, pyometra, death during delivery of kittens and adult cats- if you want your stance of littering this world with kittens supported, than you have landed on the wrong board. I am not one to beat around the bush on this issue, having been privy to what happens to cats being left outside to breed indiscrimately and giving up long hours of sleep to bottle feed, or care for a cat or kitten. You need to become part of the solution, because right now, all you are is adding to the problem-
Well you have one with me, as each kitten season I am presented with orphaned babies, many of them health compromised, or pregnant moms who owners have decided they are simply not "worth the trouble to feed" and I get to take care of them. I take the females in immediately and get them spayed, and I bottle feed the orphaned kittens, praying over each one as they fight for life in a world they don't want to be in.
They don't ask to be born, they are here because someone (such as yourself) refuses to spay and neuter and allows the cats to procreate at an alarming manner- giving kittens away freely without asking that the people taking them spay or neuter the offsprings. What a waste of precious life, because many of these "free kittens" end up in horrendous situations, or worse. Shelters become crammed full with owner surrenders, putting at risk the older cats that should be adopted out, but instead are euthanized so the younger cats that are more adoptable can at least have a chance to find a good home-
Not to mention mammary cancers, pyometra, death during delivery of kittens and adult cats- if you want your stance of littering this world with kittens supported, than you have landed on the wrong board. I am not one to beat around the bush on this issue, having been privy to what happens to cats being left outside to breed indiscrimately and giving up long hours of sleep to bottle feed, or care for a cat or kitten. You need to become part of the solution, because right now, all you are is adding to the problem-
I agree with Hissy!! People like you add to the ever increasing problem of cat over-population. Perhaps you should visit this site: www.everynineseconds.com. Maybe going through this website will educate you on the problem that exists. Here's a few facts from that site.
1. Number of lost and unwanted animals entering animals
shelters nationwide last year: 6 to 8 million
2. Number of animals euthanized in shelters last year: 3
to 4 million - well over a quarter-million a month, 405
each hour, one every nine seconds. In human terms,
this is proportional to losing the entire population of
Los Angeles every year.
3. Euthanasia in animal shelters is the leading cause of
death of healthy dogs and cats.
1. Number of lost and unwanted animals entering animals
shelters nationwide last year: 6 to 8 million
2. Number of animals euthanized in shelters last year: 3
to 4 million - well over a quarter-million a month, 405
each hour, one every nine seconds. In human terms,
this is proportional to losing the entire population of
Los Angeles every year.
3. Euthanasia in animal shelters is the leading cause of
death of healthy dogs and cats.
I gather that one of the many reasons people are advised to charge for kittens is to avoid them ending up as snake food or test subjects. Just a thought, next time you give away a kitten, it could end up in a lab for its entire miserable life or being eaten alive.
Hey, and welcome
I'm new here too, and I used to think like you. Why not let cats breed? Babies are cute! Then I learned why not.
Firstly, mixed breed cats and dogs do not have 'hybrid' vigor. They are not crossing species. A domestic cat is a domestic cat. It is the same species whether or not its a persian or an abyssinian. They are different breeds, not different species. In order to have hybrid vigor, you would have to cross a domestic dog with a wolf, coyote, or other canid species. To have hybrid vigor in cats, you would have to cross a domestic feline with another species of cat, such as an Amur leopard cat, or a Cerval, or an Asian leopard cat. Not just a siamese to a himalayan. If you breed one kind of cat that is prone to a genetic problem, such as heart disease, to another breed of cat that is prone to eye problems, you are not increasing the chances the kittens will be healthy, but rather INCREASING the number of genetic problems they can have! Now, instead of just being at risk for heart problems, they are ALSO at risk for eye problems.
That aside, you asked if God didn't want them to have kittens why would he have made it happen? Well, he may have given them the functionality to have them, but he also gave you charge over your animal's welfare and wellbeing. To me, saying the above is like saying 'well, if God wanted the cat to have asthma, what right do I have to give it medicine?'
Having kittens is dangerous on the female. They can get infections, mastitis, they could die in labor. Its dangerous for the kittens. And with millions getting killed worldwide, it is plain irresponsible. Cats are not like humans. They don't sit around thinking 'Gosh, I just don't feel complete unless I can have kids to pass my legacy on to'. This is not a choice they make. They are slaves to their bodies. It doesn't matter if a female cat wants to or doesn't want to have kittens. When they go in heat, if there is a male around, they have NO CHOICE. They will get bred, like it or not, and then be pregnant, like it or not.
Mixed cats are wonderful. I own five of them. It doesn't matter to me that they're not purebred. However they are all fixed. Their lives and health matters to me. I don't want my boys escaping and getting into fights, getting abcesses or testicular cancer. I don't want my girls getting infections, wearing themselves out physically producing litter after litter. I don't want them getting uterine or breast cancers, which are virtually eliminated after spaying or neutering.
I have one purebred cat who is 90% likely to be sterile. He will still be fixed, because I do not want the health or hormonal problems putting his life at risk.
Yes, it is okay for responsible purebred owners to breed for very specific reasons. Their cats are health tested and their lines are known. The genetic problems they carry are known, and can therefore be mostly avoided through careful selection of breed partners. The cats usually are not bred unless a home is lined up and available for every single kitten that cat could produce. The breeder usually...and should...use very stringent criteria on selecting the homes for the kittens and will either take back or aid rehoming one of the kittens they sell at ANY point in that cat's life. Even twenty years down the road, if need be. They take full responsibility for every life they create.
Yes, their cats are expensive. This is also for many reasons. They want someone who can afford enough to provide that cat adequate care for its entire life. They want someone to think the decision through seriously (it's hard to make a $800 impulse buy). Plus, they give their cats and kittens the best of care including all shots, check-ups, and genetic testings, which cost more money but ensure you're getting a healthier cat in the long run.
People are more likely to take a cat they spent money on to the vet. Free kittens tend to be ignored when they are sick (TEND to be. I'm not citing every person that owns a free kitten, here). People are more likely to take the time working through any behavior problem that might arise with a cat they spent money for, than for a free one. Heck, cat scratches the couch? Well, it was free. Give it to the shelter. We can always get a new one.
Education is the key. You're dealing with lives here...lives that feel, care, and can get sick and die. Every life you bring into the world is a life YOU made to happen, and one YOU have to take responsibility for. That is why it is only okay for responsible purebred breeders to breed, and not just anyone with a moggie they think is cute and sweet. Millions of cute and sweet moggies get put down every year, as do millions of purebred cats bred by IRRESPONSIBLE purebred breeders.
Research, educate, enlighten. Good luck with your cats, and I sincerely hope you change your mind.
Firstly, mixed breed cats and dogs do not have 'hybrid' vigor. They are not crossing species. A domestic cat is a domestic cat. It is the same species whether or not its a persian or an abyssinian. They are different breeds, not different species. In order to have hybrid vigor, you would have to cross a domestic dog with a wolf, coyote, or other canid species. To have hybrid vigor in cats, you would have to cross a domestic feline with another species of cat, such as an Amur leopard cat, or a Cerval, or an Asian leopard cat. Not just a siamese to a himalayan. If you breed one kind of cat that is prone to a genetic problem, such as heart disease, to another breed of cat that is prone to eye problems, you are not increasing the chances the kittens will be healthy, but rather INCREASING the number of genetic problems they can have! Now, instead of just being at risk for heart problems, they are ALSO at risk for eye problems.
That aside, you asked if God didn't want them to have kittens why would he have made it happen? Well, he may have given them the functionality to have them, but he also gave you charge over your animal's welfare and wellbeing. To me, saying the above is like saying 'well, if God wanted the cat to have asthma, what right do I have to give it medicine?'
Having kittens is dangerous on the female. They can get infections, mastitis, they could die in labor. Its dangerous for the kittens. And with millions getting killed worldwide, it is plain irresponsible. Cats are not like humans. They don't sit around thinking 'Gosh, I just don't feel complete unless I can have kids to pass my legacy on to'. This is not a choice they make. They are slaves to their bodies. It doesn't matter if a female cat wants to or doesn't want to have kittens. When they go in heat, if there is a male around, they have NO CHOICE. They will get bred, like it or not, and then be pregnant, like it or not.
Mixed cats are wonderful. I own five of them. It doesn't matter to me that they're not purebred. However they are all fixed. Their lives and health matters to me. I don't want my boys escaping and getting into fights, getting abcesses or testicular cancer. I don't want my girls getting infections, wearing themselves out physically producing litter after litter. I don't want them getting uterine or breast cancers, which are virtually eliminated after spaying or neutering.
I have one purebred cat who is 90% likely to be sterile. He will still be fixed, because I do not want the health or hormonal problems putting his life at risk.
Yes, it is okay for responsible purebred owners to breed for very specific reasons. Their cats are health tested and their lines are known. The genetic problems they carry are known, and can therefore be mostly avoided through careful selection of breed partners. The cats usually are not bred unless a home is lined up and available for every single kitten that cat could produce. The breeder usually...and should...use very stringent criteria on selecting the homes for the kittens and will either take back or aid rehoming one of the kittens they sell at ANY point in that cat's life. Even twenty years down the road, if need be. They take full responsibility for every life they create.
Yes, their cats are expensive. This is also for many reasons. They want someone who can afford enough to provide that cat adequate care for its entire life. They want someone to think the decision through seriously (it's hard to make a $800 impulse buy). Plus, they give their cats and kittens the best of care including all shots, check-ups, and genetic testings, which cost more money but ensure you're getting a healthier cat in the long run.
People are more likely to take a cat they spent money on to the vet. Free kittens tend to be ignored when they are sick (TEND to be. I'm not citing every person that owns a free kitten, here). People are more likely to take the time working through any behavior problem that might arise with a cat they spent money for, than for a free one. Heck, cat scratches the couch? Well, it was free. Give it to the shelter. We can always get a new one.
Education is the key. You're dealing with lives here...lives that feel, care, and can get sick and die. Every life you bring into the world is a life YOU made to happen, and one YOU have to take responsibility for. That is why it is only okay for responsible purebred breeders to breed, and not just anyone with a moggie they think is cute and sweet. Millions of cute and sweet moggies get put down every year, as do millions of purebred cats bred by IRRESPONSIBLE purebred breeders.
Research, educate, enlighten. Good luck with your cats, and I sincerely hope you change your mind.
May I ask why you insist that all of your cats have a chance at being breed? Why do you bring these kittens into the world just to give them away, and then get another Tom to start the cycle over again? There are millions of cats out there in rescues and shelters looking for good homes. You (or anyone else for that matter) don't need to purposely add to the overpopulation of cats that already exist. And when these people answer your neighbor's ad for free kittens, does he/she ask the person and questions to make sure that they know how to properly take care of this kitten? And that they aren't going to just dump it somewhere when/if it becomes a burden on them?
My point has been made already by Hissy. There are millions of cats looking for good loving homes, but the fact is that kittens are more likely to be adopted over older cats because of the cute & cuddly factor. Because of that many adult cats are sentenced to die.
How many cats do you have right now? You said you usually keep the kittens you have, so how many is that? And if none are spayed/neutered then how do you honestly know who the father of the kittens are? If one girl just starts to show she is preggie then how EXACTLY do you know that is wasn't one of her brother's that caused it?
In my opinion (and the opinion of most people here) it is not the actions of a responsible cat owner to constantly let your cats breed. You are just adding an already overwhelming problem.
I do hope that you will read up on this subject and eventually change your mind. Good luck to your kitties.
My point has been made already by Hissy. There are millions of cats looking for good loving homes, but the fact is that kittens are more likely to be adopted over older cats because of the cute & cuddly factor. Because of that many adult cats are sentenced to die.
How many cats do you have right now? You said you usually keep the kittens you have, so how many is that? And if none are spayed/neutered then how do you honestly know who the father of the kittens are? If one girl just starts to show she is preggie then how EXACTLY do you know that is wasn't one of her brother's that caused it?
In my opinion (and the opinion of most people here) it is not the actions of a responsible cat owner to constantly let your cats breed. You are just adding an already overwhelming problem.
I do hope that you will read up on this subject and eventually change your mind. Good luck to your kitties.
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Psst.......rayvn?
It wouldn't be a problem IF there weren't already MILLIONS of mixed breed kittens and cats in shelters and rescues throughout the USA. I would recommend you check the euthanization stats for your state. In Virginia...only 4 out of every 10 cats/kittens make it out of shelters alive....in 2003 that meant 73,000 cats and kittens died for no other reason then there were TOO MANY of them and not enough people to adopt.
What I find sad is that you argue for the right to have kittens..when I just took in a mom and her kittens from the local shelter who would have been euthanized had I not stepped forward. Do you believe that healthy cats and kittens deserve to die because individuals do not get their cats fixed??
Katie
Hi & Welcome to TCS!!!!
Please keep your wonderful educational posts like this coming. BRAVO!Originally Posted by Ravyn
Hey, and welcomeI'm new here too, and I used to think like you. Why not let cats breed? Babies are cute! Then I learned why not.
Firstly, mixed breed cats and dogs do not have 'hybrid' vigor. They are not crossing species. A domestic cat is a domestic cat. It is the same species whether or not its a persian or an abyssinian. They are different breeds, not different species. In order to have hybrid vigor, you would have to cross a domestic dog with a wolf, coyote, or other canid species. To have hybrid vigor in cats, you would have to cross a domestic feline with another species of cat, such as an Amur leopard cat, or a Cerval, or an Asian leopard cat. Not just a siamese to a himalayan. If you breed one kind of cat that is prone to a genetic problem, such as heart disease, to another breed of cat that is prone to eye problems, you are not increasing the chances the kittens will be healthy, but rather INCREASING the number of genetic problems they can have! Now, instead of just being at risk for heart problems, they are ALSO at risk for eye problems.
That aside, you asked if God didn't want them to have kittens why would he have made it happen? Well, he may have given them the functionality to have them, but he also gave you charge over your animal's welfare and wellbeing. To me, saying the above is like saying 'well, if God wanted the cat to have asthma, what right do I have to give it medicine?'
Having kittens is dangerous on the female. They can get infections, mastitis, they could die in labor. Its dangerous for the kittens. And with millions getting killed worldwide, it is plain irresponsible. Cats are not like humans. They don't sit around thinking 'Gosh, I just don't feel complete unless I can have kids to pass my legacy on to'. This is not a choice they make. They are slaves to their bodies. It doesn't matter if a female cat wants to or doesn't want to have kittens. When they go in heat, if there is a male around, they have NO CHOICE. They will get bred, like it or not, and then be pregnant, like it or not.
Mixed cats are wonderful. I own five of them. It doesn't matter to me that they're not purebred. However they are all fixed. Their lives and health matters to me. I don't want my boys escaping and getting into fights, getting abcesses or testicular cancer. I don't want my girls getting infections, wearing themselves out physically producing litter after litter. I don't want them getting uterine or breast cancers, which are virtually eliminated after spaying or neutering.
I have one purebred cat who is 90% likely to be sterile. He will still be fixed, because I do not want the health or hormonal problems putting his life at risk.
Yes, it is okay for responsible purebred owners to breed for very specific reasons. Their cats are health tested and their lines are known. The genetic problems they carry are known, and can therefore be mostly avoided through careful selection of breed partners. The cats usually are not bred unless a home is lined up and available for every single kitten that cat could produce. The breeder usually...and should...use very stringent criteria on selecting the homes for the kittens and will either take back or aid rehoming one of the kittens they sell at ANY point in that cat's life. Even twenty years down the road, if need be. They take full responsibility for every life they create.
Yes, their cats are expensive. This is also for many reasons. They want someone who can afford enough to provide that cat adequate care for its entire life. They want someone to think the decision through seriously (it's hard to make a $800 impulse buy). Plus, they give their cats and kittens the best of care including all shots, check-ups, and genetic testings, which cost more money but ensure you're getting a healthier cat in the long run.
People are more likely to take a cat they spent money on to the vet. Free kittens tend to be ignored when they are sick (TEND to be. I'm not citing every person that owns a free kitten, here). People are more likely to take the time working through any behavior problem that might arise with a cat they spent money for, than for a free one. Heck, cat scratches the couch? Well, it was free. Give it to the shelter. We can always get a new one.
Education is the key. You're dealing with lives here...lives that feel, care, and can get sick and die. Every life you bring into the world is a life YOU made to happen, and one YOU have to take responsibility for. That is why it is only okay for responsible purebred breeders to breed, and not just anyone with a moggie they think is cute and sweet. Millions of cute and sweet moggies get put down every year, as do millions of purebred cats bred by IRRESPONSIBLE purebred breeders.
Research, educate, enlighten. Good luck with your cats, and I sincerely hope you change your mind.
I don't usually get into these types of threads but I would like to add something.
When I adopted my twins last summer from the humane society, I was informed by one of the staff members that over 100 kittens were euthanized there just the day before. All because of backyard breeders dumping them at the shelter.
What you are doing is encouraging people to take your kittens instead of giving those people the chance to save a kitten from being put to sleep. Most people don't understand or know what is going on in the shelters and they never will unless people like you stop taking boxes of kittens to the grocery store or wherever to get rid of them.
Welcome to TCS and I hope you will understand where everyone is coming from.
When I adopted my twins last summer from the humane society, I was informed by one of the staff members that over 100 kittens were euthanized there just the day before. All because of backyard breeders dumping them at the shelter.
What you are doing is encouraging people to take your kittens instead of giving those people the chance to save a kitten from being put to sleep. Most people don't understand or know what is going on in the shelters and they never will unless people like you stop taking boxes of kittens to the grocery store or wherever to get rid of them.
Welcome to TCS and I hope you will understand where everyone is coming from.
Sadheart, welcome to the site. I'm going to assume that after the responses you got, you have already changed your mind. Please know that most of the people here at TCS want what is best for the CAT. We all think kittens are cute, but we don't want those same kittens to be discarded because there aren't enough homes for them. Also please take seriously what you have learned about giving away kittens. There are people who pretend to have a "good home" available, but then use the poor kitten for medical experiments.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #19
You guys got me all wrong, I give my kittens to good homes, I live in Hickville Nebraska in a town of 460 people. I give my kittens to littloe girls like i once used to be, who can't afford to got to Omaha or Lincoln and get one of their own cats. ANd its not like I have a lot of Kittens I had one litter this year. Thats not bad. And yes I change toms, i don't want inbreedign goin on. If i had the tools I would save every cats in a shelter. But I don't. I live on a farm in a middle of no where, where if there is a stray its gladly welcome on the place, i'll feed it and everything. I have a good home. And hissy, sometimes no matter what you do Some kittens out of the litter will die, just like some human babies die, its a natural part of nature. I didn't come on here to hear how I'm trying to start a fight, i just wondered why you guys were all against it? But i thinking we live in different places, you guys prlly live in town, where as i live on a farm. I dunno but wow did u guys jump my butt. And still I stand with my point of view. I still will not get my cats spayed or nuetered. As I said in some situations its good, but for me everyone of my cats are healthy. And very well loved. I resent the fact hissy you think I'm a bad owner cuz I let my cats have kittens. I have one to two litters a year and that makes me a bad person? I dunno, i guess i'm not welcomed here, i'm not tryin g to cause a argument or anything, i was just wondering why you guys where so against it? I think the best thign you can ever see is a mom and her babies together, and seeing how content the mom is with her babies and how much she loves them. But I guess I'm way off base!
Heidi....take a minute to walk in my shoes. Go into a shelter on euthanasia day....this week there are 20 kittens in the shelter, several pregnant cats and several older cats.....we are currently full and can only take a handful...so you tell me, exactly which of those 20 kittens do I take.....do I let the mom cats be euthanized and only take the kittens? Do I take some of the adults and let more of the kittens be euthanized? I am not talking about a city situation...I am talking about rural Virginia..whrere there are many people who do exact what you are doing. Only the girls they give the kittens to never get them fixed..and cannot afford to keep a mother cat...so to the shelter it goes. Then *I* have to decide who we will take..and who will be taken into a room and given a shot that will stop it's heart. If you think I like making that decision....I don't! It's horrible to decide a kitten's fate and if I could convince even 1 person to stop breeding mixed breed kittens so the ones already born had a better chance...I would in a heartbeat.
Katie
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