Corona or Calicivirus?

FVRCP is considered a CORE vaccine, yes. Your vet is correct that vaccinating a cat after infection isn't going to help. However, it is currently recommended that cats get the FVRCP and Rabies vaccines yearly. However, vaccinations should be discussed with your vet on an individual cat basis.

As for cleaning, the antibacterial wipes are not recommended for use on food surfaces,...their instructions recommend to thoroughly wash any eating surface if the wipes are used. Really, nothing beats good old fashion soap and water. This is why I recommended paper plates/bowls while you get the situation under control.

As for the water tank...I think the only problem would be backwash. Pet haps poor some of the water out before flipping the tank upside down to remove the bowl could help safe some water?

CatPack said:

FVRCP is considered a CORE vaccine, yes. Your vet is correct that vaccinating a cat after infection isn't going to help. However, it is currently recommended that cats get the FVRCP and Rabies vaccines yearly. However, vaccinations should be discussed with your vet on an individual cat basis.

As for cleaning, the antibacterial wipes are not recommended for use on food surfaces,...their instructions recommend to thoroughly wash any eating surface if the wipes are used. Really, nothing beats good old fashion soap and water. This is why I recommended paper plates/bowls while you get the situation under control.

As for the water tank...I think the only problem would be backwash. Pet haps poor some of the water out before flipping the tank upside down to remove the bowl could help safe some water?

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I will reply better once I am home. I just wanted to update.
I just bought clear, glass bowls to replace all their water and food bowls they currently use. I plan on washing them daily. I bought disinfectant wipes to use around the litter boxes, if that is okay? Like on the floor if it isn't carpet as well as around the brim of the litter boxes. Just wanted to make sure that was okay to do. My mom and I decided we should just start buying new litter boxes every month and just throwing the old ones out. Is this a good idea or no? Again, I will reply about the herpes and Calico once I am home. Thank you so much for your help, you have been so great with your information and suggestions. All of you. Thank you.

Just a quick aside to say that that I have queried my vet and cat specialist about prescribing antibiotics to cats with viruses. They replied that cats with virused are prone to secondary infections, particularly if they've been very ill.

CatPack said:

Calici is like our flu. There are several strains of Calici. One produces high fever and limb pain (limping kitten syndrome) and doesn't always have the URI symptoms. There is a "standard" strain that produces the ulcers, sneezing/nasal discharge, eye discharge and then there is a virulent stain (which is what they suspect my Tyson had) that can lead to serious complications or death. The good thing about Calici is once they are over an infection, that's it. Now, a cat can be reinfected with another strain, but that doesn't happen frequently.

Feline Herpes is like a cold. It's characterized by eye discharge, nasal discharge and/or sneezing. Symptoms and severity really vary from cat to cat. Herpes is a chronic. Once a cat gets it, they have it for life. For some cats, the virus goes dormant and they rarely, if ever, have another flare up. For other cats that have constant/chronic flare ups.

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So if my cats had a fever, were lethargic, had the ulcers in their mouths, excessively drooled, but didn't have the eye or nasal discharge, would that still be considered to be the "standard" strand? And could what Boo had and what Arthemis has now be another strand of Calici, or something else? I don't think it's herpes as none of them ever sneezed, besides the kittens, and none of them have had eye problems or nasal discharge.

moorspede said:

Just a quick aside to say that that I have queried my vet and cat specialist about prescribing antibiotics to cats with viruses. They replied that cats with virused are prone to secondary infections, particularly if they've been very ill.

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Yes, that is exactly true. It's to help them fight off anything else they are more vulnerable to in their fragile immune state. Antibiotics give them a chance to fight the virus without anything else interfering.

I'm not a vet, so can't give a diagnosis. However, the symptoms do point to Calicivirus and I would more suspect "standard" over virulent. As I mentioned before, one strain can affect two different cats very differently depending on the individual cat's immune system, their vaccine history and whether or not those vaccine "took".

I do wonder if your kitties have ulcers further down in the throats that cannot be seen that is causing the gagging.

I do suggest talking to your vet about using Famciclovir. This is an oral antiviral that can help them get over the virus quicker. I've used it with kitties with Calici, Herpes and Mycoplasma.

I also recommend taking a stool sample in to be tested. You can take a sample in to be tested without first knowing who the diarrhea culprit is...but the sample needs to be fresh (no more than an hour old) and needs to be diarrhea. I would have the sample sent to an outside lab to specifically check for Coccidia and Giardia.

Also, if the kittens haven't been dewormed yet, that needs to be done. Two rounds is typical. If kittens had fleas, Drontal is a great all in one dewormers to use that will also get tapeworms. Otherwise, Strongid should be fine.

Just tossing in my two cents.

Absolutely believe it is calicivirus. Herpesvirus doesn't cause the ulcers as calici does.

Ulcers will take time to heal too.

Calici has a tendency to become pneumonia in kittens, but in adults not likely.

Antibiotics handle the bacteria that show up eagerly when a cat's immune system is occupied at fighting off a virus, without antibiotics to take the work load of bacteria fighting away, the cat's system has to try to control the bacteria leaving the virus to linger on and on.

Kittens must get the core vaccines of a series of 3, beginning around 8 weeks old, then every 3-4 weeks after, to be fully protected from the biggies.

Then at 1 year old, but yearly is no longer the standard, thankfully.

It is now every 3 years, and should be even longer, but at least it finally has been put out there that they do not need yearly vaccines, that is way over-vaccinating.

Glass bowls are good, they're easily disinfected. I don't know that I'd recommend buying new litterboxes every month---that could get expensive, using important funds that could go toward vet bills. Scrubbing and bleaching the existing boxes ought to be sufficient (of course, rinse well and let dry to allow the bleach residue to dissipate). They do have disposable litterboxes if you want to go that route.

Willowy said:

Glass bowls are good, they're easily disinfected. I don't know that I'd recommend buying new litterboxes every month---that could get expensive, using important funds that could go toward vet bills. Scrubbing and bleaching the existing boxes ought to be sufficient (of course, rinse well and let dry to allow the bleach residue to dissipate). They do have disposable litterboxes if you want to go that route.

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I agree, just clean and disinfect their boxes, I wouldn't go as far as replacing them regularly, too much money!

As for the diarrhea, take the 2 worst kitties samples, since coccidia is shed at varying times and while one may not be shedding the cysts for a fecal float to show the true results, you are doubling your chances with 2 samples.

Hopefully your vet uses ponazuril for treatment, zaps coccidia and a few other parasites right out of them fast.

I've read most of the comments in this thread. I used to be a veterinary technician & here's my advice. First, if you're cats have fleas you need to get rid of them for good & with that many cats, it's going to be a task. Fleas can cause all sorts of health problems, not just for your cats but also for you. If you have fleas you also more than likely have tapeworms. Fleas carry tapeworms and when cats groom themselves will unintentionally ingest fleas and end up with tapeworms. You can also get tapeworms so you need to take these steps. This could very well be causing the health problems you're seeing. I think using the Hartz stuff caused the soars. I highly recommend discontinuing its use.

You will need to bathe all the cats using the blue colored Dawn dish soap. The reason I recommend using it is because it isn't toxic like some flea dips and shampoos are. Make sure to watch for the fleas to move to their head area while bathing. I recommend using a flea comb on the head area while the cat is in the bath water. This will take two people to do. Bathe them all, rinse very well, let them dry out. While they dry out, wash all cat bedding in hot water, dry as usual. Change out any of your bedding, vacuum your mattress, any fabric furniture, all carpeting, basically everywhere you can. Basically anything that's carpeted or fabric in your house has to be washed in hot water vacuumed or placed in plastic bags and quarantined for a few weeks. You need to vacuum every single day and keep bathing cats and washing bedding until you are not seeing fleas anymore. Also keep using a monthly treatment.

All cats must also be dewormed with Droncit. Please do not use any over the counter medicines. They don't work and often do more harm then good. I'm betting that once you rid your home of fleas and tapeworms, the symptoms will go away. It's also imperative that you scoop litter boxes atleast once a day as this is how tapeworms are spread. You should be cleaning boxes and the scoopers in a diluted bleach solution of one part bleach to twenty parts water every week also. Any cat toys can also be cleaned in this dilution as long as you rinse them very well and let them air dry before the cats get them back. Also rinse the litter boxes and scoopers and allow to dry. Good luck!

I've read most of the comments in this thread. I used to be a veterinary technician & here's my advice. First, if your cats have fleas you need to get rid of them for good & with that many cats, it's going to be a task. Fleas can cause all sorts of health problems, not just for your cats but also for you. If you have fleas you also more than likely have tapeworms. Fleas carry tapeworms and when cats groom themselves will unintentionally ingest fleas and end up with tapeworms. You can also get tapeworms so you need to take these steps. This could very well be causing the health problems you're seeing. I think using the Hartz stuff caused the soars. I highly recommend discontinuing its use.

You will need to bathe all the cats using the blue colored Dawn dish soap. The reason I recommend using it is because it isn't toxic like some flea dips and shampoos are. Make sure to watch for the fleas to move to their head area while bathing. I recommend using a flea comb on the head area while the cat is in the bath water. This will take two people to do. Bathe them all, rinse very well, let them dry out. While they dry out, wash all cat bedding in hot water, dry as usual. Change out any of your bedding, vacuum your mattress, any fabric furniture, all carpeting, basically everywhere you can. Basically anything that's carpeted or fabric in your house has to be washed in hot water vacuumed or placed in plastic bags and quarantined for a few weeks. You need to vacuum every single day and keep bathing cats and washing bedding until you are not seeing fleas anymore. Also keep using a monthly treatment.

All cats must also be dewormed with Droncit. Please do not use any over the counter medicines. They don't work and often do more harm then good. I'm betting that once you rid your home of fleas and tapeworms, the symptoms will go away. It's also imperative that you scoop litter boxes atleast once a day as this is how tapeworms are spread. You should be cleaning boxes and the scoopers in a diluted bleach solution of one part bleach to twenty parts water every week also. Any cat toys can also be cleaned in this dilution as long as you rinse them very well and let them air dry before the cats get them back. Also rinse the litter boxes and scoopers and allow to dry. Good luck!

CatPack said:

I'm not a vet, so can't give a diagnosis. However, the symptoms do point to Calicivirus and I would more suspect "standard" over virulent. As I mentioned before, one strain can affect two different cats very differently depending on the individual cat's immune system, their vaccine history and whether or not those vaccine "took".

I do wonder if your kitties have ulcers further down in the throats that cannot be seen that is causing the gagging.

I do suggest talking to your vet about using Famciclovir. This is an oral antiviral that can help them get over the virus quicker. I've used it with kitties with Calici, Herpes and Mycoplasma.

I also recommend taking a stool sample in to be tested. You can take a sample in to be tested without first knowing who the diarrhea culprit is...but the sample needs to be fresh (no more than an hour old) and needs to be diarrhea. I would have the sample sent to an outside lab to specifically check for Coccidia and Giardia.

Also, if the kittens haven't been dewormed yet, that needs to be done. Two rounds is typical. If kittens had fleas, Drontal is a great all in one dewormers to use that will also get tapeworms. Otherwise, Strongid should be fine.

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I thought the same with the ulcers deeper down. The vet did look in their mouths and didn't see any redness or anything, but that doesn't mean anything I suppose. They could probably only see so far down and that's it.
The kittens were dewormed Profender a couple days after we got them. I didn't even think the cats had fleas until I saw a tapeworm in one of the kittens' stool recently. I even used a flea comb on a lot of them and did not see any fleas or flea dirt after that discovery, so hopefully we caught it early as we put Advantage II on them straight after. I don't see a point deworming them until we know for a fact the fleas are gone. I have yet to see one, but you never know for sure I guess.
I will try to watch the cats carefully as they're in the litter boxes and hopefully find the cat with diarrhea so we can take a fresh sample in. It's just hard as I'll be at work all day today and tomorrow and part of the day Wednesday. I cleaned the litter boxes again this morning and found diarrhea splatted on the side of one of the litter boxes upstairs and then a pile covered up with litter in one of the basement litter boxes. I also added four more litter boxes downstairs so hopefully that will help.

catwoman707 said:

Just tossing in my two cents.
Absolutely believe it is calicivirus. Herpesvirus doesn't cause the ulcers as calici does.
Ulcers will take time to heal too.
Calici has a tendency to become pneumonia in kittens, but in adults not likely.
Antibiotics handle the bacteria that show up eagerly when a cat's immune system is occupied at fighting off a virus, without antibiotics to take the work load of bacteria fighting away, the cat's system has to try to control the bacteria leaving the virus to linger on and on.

Kittens must get the core vaccines of a series of 3, beginning around 8 weeks old, then every 3-4 weeks after, to be fully protected from the biggies.
Then at 1 year old, but yearly is no longer the standard, thankfully.
It is now every 3 years, and should be even longer, but at least it finally has been put out there that they do not need yearly vaccines, that is way over-vaccinating.

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I concur about the Calicivirus.
I wish I knew which cats were currently sick so I could go pick up some more antibiotics for them as well.. I only knew Boo and Artie were due to their gagging. I haven't seen anyone else doing it, just diarrhea here and there. Which could be caused from a parasite as well, not a real virus. So I guess first thing is first, getting a diarrhea sample and having it checked out for parasites. And then after that seeing if the boys need more vaccines, even though their stools are fine and they haven't been sick in months. They had their first round and then boosters a month later before being netuered, so maybe they're okay for now.

Willowy said:

Glass bowls are good, they're easily disinfected. I don't know that I'd recommend buying new litterboxes every month---that could get expensive, using important funds that could go toward vet bills. Scrubbing and bleaching the existing boxes ought to be sufficient (of course, rinse well and let dry to allow the bleach residue to dissipate). They do have disposable litterboxes if you want to go that route.

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Okay, glass bowls I shall keep then. And I thought the same thing, might as well keep the old litter boxes and bleach them. You think once a month or more? Keep in mind we would replace all litter in 16 litter boxes as well.

Poznog said:

I've read most of the comments in this thread. I used to be a veterinary technician & here's my advice. First, if your cats have fleas you need to get rid of them for good & with that many cats, it's going to be a task. Fleas can cause all sorts of health problems, not just for your cats but also for you. If you have fleas you also more than likely have tapeworms. Fleas carry tapeworms and when cats groom themselves will unintentionally ingest fleas and end up with tapeworms. You can also get tapeworms so you need to take these steps. This could very well be causing the health problems you're seeing. I think using the Hartz stuff caused the soars. I highly recommend discontinuing its use.

You will need to bathe all the cats using the blue colored Dawn dish soap. The reason I recommend using it is because it isn't toxic like some flea dips and shampoos are. Make sure to watch for the fleas to move to their head area while bathing. I recommend using a flea comb on the head area while the cat is in the bath water. This will take two people to do. Bathe them all, rinse very well, let them dry out. While they dry out, wash all cat bedding in hot water, dry as usual. Change out any of your bedding, vacuum your mattress, any fabric furniture, all carpeting, basically everywhere you can. Basically anything that's carpeted or fabric in your house has to be washed in hot water vacuumed or placed in plastic bags and quarantined for a few weeks. You need to vacuum every single day and keep bathing cats and washing bedding until you are not seeing fleas anymore. Also keep using a monthly treatment.

All cats must also be dewormed with Droncit. Please do not use any over the counter medicines. They don't work and often do more harm then good. I'm betting that once you rid your home of fleas and tapeworms, the symptoms will go away. It's also imperative that you scoop litter boxes atleast once a day as this is how tapeworms are spread. You should be cleaning boxes and the scoopers in a diluted bleach solution of one part bleach to twenty parts water every week also. Any cat toys can also be cleaned in this dilution as long as you rinse them very well and let them air dry before the cats get them back. Also rinse the litter boxes and scoopers and allow to dry. Good luck!

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We stopped using the Hartz stuff after the first day and dumped all the litter and bleached everything clean. We will never use that stuff again, if it was or wasn't the culprit.
I used Advantage II on the cats a couple weeks ago now. I haven't seen any fleas, as I didn't initially either, but they were itching and one had a tapeworm segment in his stool, so.I don't think he could have got that any other way but fleas. I don't think we have an infestation by any means, so bathing the cats at the moment is definitely not necessary. I've had infestations before and we just combed the cats daily and killed all the fleas off instead. Plus using the topical treatment.
I have 16 litter boxes so replacing litter in them once a week is not something we can do as it is a money issue. I will clean them twice a day at least and clean around them as well for the time being. I also have been using disinfectant wipes to clean their scoopers off as well. It's just going to be hard to see who has a tapeworm and who doesn't. I have seen a few of my cats poop in the litter box as I clean them and haven't seen any worms. I haven't even seen them in the initial cat who had one little segment in his. So again, I don't think we have an infestation of any sort. Would it be safe to treat all the cats for worms, even if they don't have them?

The kittens need to receive 3 consecutive dewormings every 2-3 weeks, this is so that the entire life cycle of the parasite is taken care of.

My vets also recommend 3 consecutive month treatments of a flea medication when there has been fleas in the house.

As for litte boxes...
Scoop as frequently as you can. If there is diarrhea in one box, clean it promptly and remove any contaminated litter. If diarrhea gets on the box itself, I would consider dumping that particular box and sanitizing it by soaking in a diluted bleach solution.

Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to sanitize the litter scoop(s) frequently. And, certainly after scooping diarrhea.

CatPack said:

The kittens need to receive 3 consecutive dewormings every 2-3 weeks, this is so that the entire life cycle of the parasite is taken care of.

My vets also recommend 3 consecutive month treatments of a flea medication when there has been fleas in the house.

As for litte boxes...
Scoop as frequently as you can. If there is diarrhea in one box, clean it promptly and remove any contaminated litter. If diarrhea gets on the box itself, I would consider dumping that particular box and sanitizing it by soaking in a diluted bleach solution.

Also, wouldn't be a bad idea to sanitize the litter scoop(s) frequently. And, certainly after scooping diarrhea.

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So I am noticing that the cats are having more wet stools than not. Not pure diarrhea, nothing explosive, but nothing entirely solid either. It's just kind of.. soggy looking. Some are having normal stools, but I'd say 2/3 of the stool I am seeing is a bit wet. Do you think I should just treat them for fleas the next couple months and then ask for a dewormer for all of them, or should I take in a sample and see if they even have parasites? And if one has parasites and the other doesn't, but there's no way to know whose stool is whose, is it safe to deworm all of them if the sample does show parasites? I just don't know what order to do all these things or what to do in general. If it isn't parasites, then what would it be? A virus? Or do they just maybe need probiotics? What could I mix with their food as a probiotic? Or should I just get the pills they gave me for Boo the first time?
Also as far as scooping, I think I can scoop them three times a day, easily. And like I said, I'm going to wash all their bowls once a day as well.
Oh and the kittens. They are about 7 months now and had Profender around age 4 months. Do I just need to start over? Or should one dose of Profender work with them too? Profender is the only dewormer my vets have ever offered. It's topical. Again though, this goes back to the question of what I need to do first; three months of flea treatments, to be safe, and then deworm, or just skip doing the flea treatments as I honestly don't think they have any, and go straight for the stool sample and deworming? This is stressful.

Just watched one of the 7 month olds use the litter box - diarrhea. He had diarrhea for the first week or week and a half of having him. We changed his diet to food with probiotics in it and his stool became normal and remained normal even after reverting back to the Purina brand. Now we have them on Blue Buffalo. Last time I saw him use the litter box, maybe a couple days ago, it wasn't diarrhea, but now it is. I'm at such a loss.

Need to take some stool samples to the vet for testing. Start by ruling out Coccidia and Giardia. You want the vet to send the sample to an outside lab to be tested.

The Coccidia I have dealt with this year has caused cyclical diarrhea in the kittens that had it.

As mentioned before, if it is coccidia, Ponazuril is greatlt preferred over Albon for treatment. If your vet does not carry this, they can call in a stript to Roadrunner Pharmacy who will then call you for payment and the medication will be delivered directly to you.

If it is coccidia or Giardia, I would opt to treat all of the cats since all have used the same litter boxes and drink out of communal water dishes.

CatPack said:

Need to take some stool samples to the vet for testing. Start by ruling out Coccidia and Giardia. You want the vet to send the sample to an outside lab to be tested.

The Coccidia I have dealt with this year has caused cyclical diarrhea in the kittens that had it.

As mentioned before, if it is coccidia, Ponazuril is greatlt preferred over Albon for treatment. If your vet does not carry this, they can call in a stript to Roadrunner Pharmacy who will then call you for payment and the medication will be delivered directly to you.

If it is coccidia or Giardia, I would opt to treat all of the cats since all have used the same litter boxes and drink out of communal water dishes.

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Okay, thank you much for the help. Jupiter (one of the kittens) is very active and playful, never had eye or nose discharge, but he has had ear infections in both ears once. I'd say he is overall healthy, but then again, I thought Athena was too (my cat who passed away a few days ago). I will have to talk to my boyfriend about watching the cats and getting a sample, as I'll be at work and I can't drive, but he does. I'll write down everything you said as far as medication and what to check for SL her can ask the vets about it. So once we do that I'll let you all know. And if anything changes, I'll let you know about that as well.