Lilac point male wondering if show quality

Hello, first time poster, long time lover of the siamese breed. I have a lilac point male, unnuetered, that i have been considering showing, but I wanted to get some input from experienced showers on him vs the breeding standard. I have a few photos on this device, not the best in the world, i'll get the better ones off my pc. My question is, those of you that are experienced with showing, is my Gizmo showable?

I don't know anything about showing cats but he is gorgeous!

Without seeing him in person it's hard to tell the quality. But there's nothing wrong with putting him in a couple of shows to find out what the judges think of him.

I have more questions than answers for you.
What association is he registered with?
Did you buy him with breeding rights?
Do you have a mentor for your breeding program?

I think your first resource could be the breeder. A lot of breeders like to keep track of how their kittens are doing and are willing to help you get started in showing them.

GoldyCat said:

Without seeing him in person it's hard to tell the quality. But there's nothing wrong with putting him in a couple of shows to find out what the judges think of him.

I have more questions than answers for you.
What association is he registered with?
Did you buy him with breeding rights?
Do you have a mentor for your breeding program?

I think your first resource could be the breeder. A lot of breeders like to keep track of how their kittens are doing and are willing to help you get started in showing them.

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Hes registered with the CFA, yes I bought him with breeding rights, I do have a mentor, two, one for my GSD pups from k9 pines (ofc this is just general information and mainly for my GSD) but also the owner of Dynasty Siam. I actually purchased one of her breeding Queens, a chocolate, who is a CFF champion and double registered with the CFA, I plan on showing her in the future.

Gizmo came from a breeder in California, he has a few champions in his 6 gen pedigree, but I know from dog showing just because pops is a Champion doesn't mean all his babues have that kind of quality. I'm just not entirely sure of where to start with Gizmo.

The reason why I haven't gone to the breeder is because, and I dont want to come off as rude, I just literally could hardly understand her and I'm not sure she even has the time to respond to me or could understand me well enough for extended conversations.

Where are you located? Check the CFA calendar to find out when the next show in your area is being held. You can either attend a show as a spectator first to see how the shows are run, or go ahead and enter your boy. If you add a comment on the entry form that you're a first-time exhibitor the club will try to bench you next to someone who can help you get set up and make sure you get to the rings with your boy.

I think he is of good show quality.  If you can win big titles with him, I dont know and its too early to say.  But he is good enough to participate and nobody will laugh at him nor at you.  He will surely get at least his Excellent - or the equvalent in the CFA.

Also, for winning big titles it helps much with experience, both with the owner and with that cat.   Although I was once a witness a totally new be, got the BOX title, ie  second best in show, in  the other sex, the owner never got the cat was advancing the whole time, the steward did come and fetched the cat every time...  The owner herself showing in only the first two rounds. They had the cage neigbouring ours, and we gave them some help and advices, they were totally newbes, a grandma and her big eyed daudau of eleven years...

We were in the fertile class, they were in the neuter class, the cat not THAT beautiful, but he was very patient and easy to handle.

Your cat looks gorgeous in your photographs, and he looks quite the willing poser there,  but it is not a breed I am very familiar with, and seeing and handling are very important in judging cats.

It is great that you have mentors, and having the breeding rights from when you purchased him is excellent.  

You may find that if you approach his breeder again to say you are interested in starting to show him, that they will offer some advice, and if anywhere near them and going to the same shows perhaps even help you out with any show kit you require.  (Here in the UK there are strict guidelines on what we can put in pens with cats but believe it is very different in the US).   If Gizmo was sold with breeding rights they presumably expected him to be of high quality as that is best for their reputation as well as yours (being his prospective breeder).  His carrying their cattery name, if he is shown and does well it reflects positively on them as his breeder as well as any awards Gizmo receives helping to set him up as a high quality prospective stud and 'legitimate', authenitcated pedigree cat.    

If you haven't been to a cat show before, it is a good idea to get along to one so you know both what is expected of Gizmo and of you.   The shows I went to initially I went in with Mouse's breeder and they helped me through all the vetting in processes, how to find his pen etc.   They also assisted me with the filling out of the application form as getting those correct, and making sure you only enter in the appropriate / best suited classes for your cat is essential.  If you don't have anyone to help with that part, the club running the show often have a note of people who can be contacted to do that for you, and I think it is wise to take up the offer the first time you fill one out.

The cat's personality is really important if you are looking at showing so give thought to how you think he will handle the show conditions and being handled by strangers in an unfamiliar and noisy environment.  I thought Mouse would be a disaster and didn't show him until he was over 2 years old because he was such a live wire and prone to biting if he had too much pent up energy:  when I finally took him to his first show he was pretty much the most chilled out cat there and no one could believe he wasn't a hardened pro'.   I think it helps that he is a very confident and sociable cat who is happy to be held and petted by anyone.

Gizmo is definitely not afraid of anyone or anything, he bumped up against a leg belonging to an animal control officer(a sick raccoon had holed up under my porch and was sassing anything that tried to walk out the back door), with a net and trap in his hands. Gizmo is super friendly with anyone that comes into the home and likes to go to the local Pet Smart on Saturdays with my two German Shepherds on his little harness. He's the first cat I've ever owned that will let you rub his belly and since I never played with him using my hands he's never developed the idea that they were play toys, so he's not once bitten or scratched me. Big cuddler too, gets mad at me when I don't go to bed and cries for me from the bedroom, like right now. I'm making monkey bread for a pot luck tomorrow and it's past bed time and he's mad. He's never fought or gotten grumpy with any new cats brought into the home, Jazzy my current Queen growls and fusses and moans at him and he just wiggles his way over to her, chin sliding on the floor until he's close enough to reach out and touch his paw to hers. Sometimes he'll touch his paw to the top of her head and she'll sit there thrashing her tail, ears flat, him squinting and it's a stale mate before he runs off like she's going to chase after him and play. They met about two weeks ago, so their very slowly getting to know eachother and it's hilarious.

I don't think he'd have a problem being around loud noise and strange animals, he's a pretty relaxed cat that begs for attention and pets, only thing I worry about is Gizmo always rolls over once he thinks you're settled and are going to pay a lengthy amount of attention to him, and his nose leather is darker than his paw pads. Little bugger would not sit still, got what I could. Like I said, his nose leather is darker than his paw pads for a Lilac, is this considered a fault or disqualify?






And he's gotten a little chubby, gotta get rid of that tubby pouch of his! lol

I'm located in Roanoke, VA, I'll likely go to a show first as a spectator to see what other cats in his breed he might be up against and to actually see how the show works and progresses, might be able to meet someone that would be willing to help give me the run down and maybe allow me to shadow with them at another show just to see how handlers react and handle their cats. Like you said showing is as much on the cat as the handler, and I'll be honest, I've got a young spry man that runs my dogs around the show ring. Cats might be something I can handle. Hah!

Cutebunnyirl said:

I'm located in Roanoke, VA, I'll likely go to a show first as a spectator to see what other cats in his breed he might be up against and to actually see how the show works and progresses, might be able to meet someone that would be willing to help give me the run down and maybe allow me to shadow with them at another show just to see how handlers react and handle their cats. Like you said showing is as much on the cat as the handler, and I'll be honest, I've got a young spry man that runs my dogs around the show ring. Cats might be something I can handle. Hah!

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You're in CFA Region 7--Southern Region. It covers a pretty big geographical area including Maryland, Virginia, District of Columbia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, eastern Tennessee and southern Kentucky. You can go to the Region website http://cfasouthern.org/ and check out the show calendar. The next show close to you is actually in Roanoke, Jan.23-24. The show flyer is here. Spectator information is here.

I highly recommend going to a show as a spectator first before entering your kitty in a show. Cat shows are nothing like dog shows. The cats are expected to be amenable to being handled but are not expected to perform. They are judged against a breed standard. Your part in the process is to be sure your kitty is clean and well groomed and carry him from the benching area cage to a cage in the judging ring. The judge takes it from there. When the judge is finished with your cat you carry him back to his benching cage. Repeat the process for each judge in the show.

I suggest that you remove Gizmo's collar if you plan to show him. Collars are not allowed for judging and judges tend to mark you down on grooming if they can see or feel the mark from a collar.

That looks really helpful Goldicat.  Interesting about not wearing a colar as i had always thought that was just for Russian Blues, wasn't aware it went for all other breeds as well.  

Gizmo sounds just adorable @Cutebunnyirl  , and obviously had some very good upbringing by his fur parents!  He sounds very like Mouse in nature (only Mouse didn't have siblings to teach him not to bite so I had to do that).  

Your going to see a couple of shows first sounds ideal as you can see how things work a little more and Gizmo can have a chance to take the edge off some of his kitten energy before having to behave all grown up for those judges.

Sorry I can't help on the nose / paw pad thing but if it means anything, RB description says similar for their lilac colouring and the paws always seem lighter.   It doesn't sound like a disqualification issue, if anything at all it might be a slight point thing.   If there is an American Siamese Association you may well find they have a points guide which takes you through all the current breed features which are scored and their value.  (The RB Breeder association here has one).

http://www.acfacat.com/Breed Standards/SIAMESE.pdf

To help you out a little here is the CFA breed standard for the Siamese.  It is what the judges look for in a cat.  I don't show the 'slinkies' (Oriental type ) but I do know the judges look for a long tubular body. Going to a show first is the best idea. Talk to the Siamese exhibitors there and ask questions. If you have a local cat club, contact them and see if one of the members has experience with Siamese. My advice is to get him used to being contained for long periods of time like he would be in a show hall. His cage can be decorated any way you like, but he can't run free obviously. He can stroll around on his harness though, if you like. No cat can have anything in the judging cage. Get him used to show grooming - that is a whole different type of grooming than for home.  When you do enter him, since there is no vetting in at the CFA shows, be certain you bring his rabies certification with you as a precaution. That way if he bites or scratches a judge or someone else, you have proof that he was vaccinated - that is not unheard of even with the mellowest cats. They can blow in a strange environment. I know of a judge that was hospitalized because of that happening.

If you plan on going to the show in January as a spectator, maybe contact the show manager and tell them you are interested in showing in the future. Maybe they can set you up with a Siamese exhibitor to shadow. Also here is the link to the CFA mentorship program:

http://www.cfa.org/AboutCFA/MentoringProgram/MentoringProgramOverview.aspx

This was all EXTREMELY helpful, thank you very much. Does anyone have any tips on getting him used to the judge handljng and show grooming?

I am at work and don't have time now, but either at dinner or when I get home I will explain how I get mine used to it.h

posiepurrs said:

I am at work and don't have time now, but either at dinner or when I get home I will explain how I get mine used to it.h

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Thank you, I look forward to it!

I can't help with the grooming because I do long hairs (Persians), but may have some tips to get him used to it. What I do is set up a cage similar to the cage that is used at the show. I also set up a scratching post. I put the cat in it for awhile, then I pretend to judge them- remove from the cage like the judge will, rear end first. Handle the cat like the judge. For instance with a Persian they feel the top head, check the break and feel the boning. For a Siamese they stretch them out, and look at the profile. Just get him used to being handled. Play with him on the table. Get him to stretch out on the scratching post. You need to take him places, the louder and more chaotic the better. Also if you know people he isn't used to have them handle him like a judge does.

There will be advice suited best to Siamese.

I know a lot of people will bathe and brush their cats thoroughly before showing.   I have never bathed Mouse for a show (or otherwise), or comb / brush groomed him.  What I do if I think he needs a little spruce up, and before any show is give him a nice rub over with a warm, damp micro-fibre cloth.  This avoids the stress of bathing while lifting out any excess oils from the fur: it is left soft, fluffy, and shining bright to show off his natural colour.  He is also clean without any residues from shampoos or other chemicals which might leave a lingering odour or irritate his skin.  

You also need to make sure ears are lovely and clean, and claws neatly clipped just a day or two before the show.   

MServant said:

 
There will be advice suited best to Siamese.

I know a lot of people will bathe and brush their cats thoroughly before showing.   I have never bathed Mouse for a show (or otherwise), or comb / brush groomed him.  What I do if I think he needs a little spruce up, and before any show is give him a nice rub over with a warm, damp micro-fibre cloth.  This avoids the stress of bathing while lifting out any excess oils from the fur: it is left soft, fluffy, and shining bright to show off his natural colour.  He is also clean without any residues from shampoos or other chemicals which might leave a lingering odour or irritate his skin.  

You also need to make sure ears are lovely and clean, and claws neatly clipped just a day or two before the show.   

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We did so too. I think such is enough for shorthairs.  With longhairs, alike Pusiepurrs persians, its different. Some judges take the grooming as part of the showing.

I have an advice extra re preparation.  At least in Fife, they do swap the table with an antibacterial fluid between every cat. So, that table tend to be if not exactly wet, so usually cold.

So, rather unpleasant surface for a cat....   Good to letting him be at least somewhat used to this.

Im not sure abot CFA, in Fife the judgement is done with a publicum. And thus, its wise to train with several people who do whisper to each other, later on applauds, congratulations and so on...  I Fife its usually the owner or a steward carrying forward - this includes the waiting phase, which is sometimes the most difficult. .  As we heard, in CFA its usually the judge herself whom handle the whole process.  Owner just putting in the cat in the judging cage.

StefanZ said:

MServant said:

 
There will be advice suited best to Siamese.

I know a lot of people will bathe and brush their cats thoroughly before showing.   I have never bathed Mouse for a show (or otherwise), or comb / brush groomed him.  What I do if I think he needs a little spruce up, and before any show is give him a nice rub over with a warm, damp micro-fibre cloth.  This avoids the stress of bathing while lifting out any excess oils from the fur: it is left soft, fluffy, and shining bright to show off his natural colour.  He is also clean without any residues from shampoos or other chemicals which might leave a lingering odour or irritate his skin.  

You also need to make sure ears are lovely and clean, and claws neatly clipped just a day or two before the show.   :catguy:

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We did so too. I think such is enough for shorthairs.  With longhairs, alike Pusiepurrs persians, its different. Some judges take the grooming as part of the showing.

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I have to disagree with this. I thought the same thing when I started showing my aby and discovered early on that the judges really can tell the difference between a cat who has been bathed and one who has not.

cutebunnyirl I got detailed instructions from an abyssinian breeder on bathing my aby for a show. I'll see if I can find where I saved that and forward it to you via PM. I would think that grooming a siamese would be similar to grooming an aby. You could also talk to siamese exhibitors at a show to find out how they groom their cats.

I think the grooming varies widely depending on breed and agree with @GoldyCat  's suggestion of checking out with other Siamese exhibitors.   With RB it is important to retain the density of coat and brushing etc is avoided, hence my approach with not bathing but ensuring my cat's coat is clean and soft but also thick and dense.  (I suspect if I did bath Mouse it would take about a week to dry out even using a hair drier despite his fur being short)!