Injured feral cat! need to trap..

Good work Pamela!!!

YES I am so happy that you finaly got him

Guess what?? I have to laugh at myself. I am jinxed!! Grin. Things NEVER go smoothly for me. It snowed a lot last nite/this am so the feral clinic is closed today and probably tmr so poor Giles will have to be stuck in the trap for a few more days. I'm going to try to transfer him from the current trap into the bigger trap so he can move around a bit easier. (I will place 1 trap against the wall then put the traps doors facing each other then pull the doors open and prod Giles to move into the other trap).

Hang in there, you are doing a great service for him and I am sure he would rather be inside than outside in the snow .
In about a month after he is fixed, I bet he stays close to you. The three that I have trapped and fixed follow me everywhere outside.. My husband says they think of me as the Food Lady .
Clara

LOL! DON'T tell me that he might start following me around! I ALREADY have that problem with Callie (feral girl I got fixed)and I am already worrying about her -what would happen to her when I move (I won't be living forever in this apt!) and I don't need to be worrying about Giles also!

I am really glad I got to trap him last nite before it started snowing. I would've been very worried about him due to him being wounded.

I tried to transfer him to a bigger trap but had no luck and now I am pretty sure that he is not fully feral.. He isn't afraid of my fingers/hands. I tried to prod him with a stick (softly & lightly)to get him to move, no luck, I used my fingers to move toward him thinking that would frighten him to back away into the bigger trap but he didn't budge and let me touch him. I actually scratched him (I KNOW I SHOULDN'T have done that but) on his head between ears and he just sat there and watched me.. I also shook the trap lightly to try to get him to move.. NO luck..

he's back in my bathtub with a towel over the small trap, with fresh water and tuna in the trap with all lites turned off in the bathroom.

That is so exciting. It's a bummer that the vet is closed, but your work ensures that this big boy will get the help he needs. Bravo!

I think I am in shock. I called the clinic just about an hour ago to see what the results of the tests were for Giles and found out he was FIV positive and was already put to sleep.

When I took him in, I filled out a form and marked a box where if he tested positive for FIV to put to sleep (I asked the nurse which was spread easily- FIV or FELV cuz I could never keep the diseases straight and was told FIV was spread easily so I marked FIV option).

What's worse is now I'm worried about Callie and other ferals since the nurse said FIV can be spread thru fights, sharing food and water. I am contacting an organization to see if they can help me trap all and have them tested for FIV. There's no way I can afford to pay for all. For Giles alone with tests, putting to sleep and disposal, the bill was more than I expected!

I will MISS Giles.. He was such a BIG HANDSOME boy. Unfortunately, I don't have any GOOD pics but I do have a few. Pls bear with the poor quality of the pics since most were taken thru the sliding door.

Another pic of Giles..

Last pic of Giles.. Now I'm crying! Jeez..

Oh Pamela, I'm SO sorry!! (((HUGS))) He was a beautiful cat. RIP Giles, at least one person really cared for you.

Pamela...I'm sooo sorry about Giles..and please do not take what I am posting to mean you did anything wrong (you made the BEST choice at the time!!)...but before you decide about testing the other cats, I wanted you to read what Alley Cat Allies had posted about FIV/FELV.

Alley Cat Allies doesn't check the ferals for FIV or FLEK...partially because cats can test positive and live perfectly normal lives. Please read the attached:

Contrary to common assumptions about feral
cats, there is no evidence to suggest that the majority
of feral cats are in poor health or are any more likely
to be infected with FeLV or FIV than domesticated
cats. Certainly, kitten mortality is high—at least half
of all feral kittens born never reach adulthood. If they
do, their immune systems are able to fight off most
viral and bacterial infections. Studies show that
between two and four percent of the domestic
(socialized) cat population in the U.S. is infected with
FeLV and that about two percent is infected with FIV.
Available data indicate that feral cats have a very
similar rate of infection. So how important is it to test
feral cats for FeLV and FIV? The answer depends on a
number of considerations.

Experience has led many
of those involved in these and similar programs to
question the efficacy of testing feral cats for FeLV and
FIV. Some have even chosen to discontinue testing of
feral cats altogether. The factors they considered in
deciding not to test included:
1. The percentage of feral cats infected with either
FeLV or FIV is low?two to four percent are infected
with FeLV and about two percent with FIV.
2. Sterilization contains the spread of viruses like FeLV
and FIV. Since neutering reduces or eliminates the
primary modes of transmission, such as fighting and
mating, infected cats pose little risk to other cats.
3. Infected cats are often asymptomatic and can
remain healthy for several years. In addition, since
testing is not always accurate, healthy cats may be
euthanized unnecessarily. Moreover, removing and
euthanizing a cat who tests positive will not
necessarily prevent spread of the infection within the
colony since it's likely that the other colony members
have already been exposed to the virus.
4. In some circumstances, the cost of testing may
outweigh its effectiveness and even hinder the
success of a sterilization program (see "Operation
Catnip"). The effectiveness of these large-scale
sterilization programs indicates that the goal of
spaying and neutering as many ferals as possible can
be met without compromising the health or well
being of the cats. It is important to remember that
we are in the midst of crisis?shelters all over the
country are killing stray and feral cats at an alarming
rate. We need to focus our energy and resources on
preventing the births of more homeless kittens, most
of who don't survive their first year of life. Increasing
the number of animals who are spayed and neutered
is the single most effective way to help control the
crisis and reduces the suffering of srtay and feral cats.

Here are some articles:

http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdf

http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/truth.pdf

http://www.bestfriends.org/sanctuary/creature/FIV.htm

Oh Pam, I too am sorry for your loss. Giles is a gorgeous boy, but you will see him again one day. You followed the advice of professionals that are there to guide you. No one would fault you for that.

I am so sorry of your loss ((((((HUGS)))))) , I am in tears now . But you did the right thing , please don't feel bad .

May Giles RIP

Pamela dont blame yourself at all.. you did what you had to.

I'm sorry (((((( hugs )))))))

I'm so sorry about Giles. I was really rootin for you two.

Seems TNR1 beat me while I was gathering my links but here they are anyway:
http://web.vet.cornell.edu/Public/FHC/fiv.html - good q/a format
http://www.bestfriends.org/sanctuary/creature/FIV.htm

TNR1, MA ,valanhb, 2tame, Hedi, Sicycat
Thanks for the words of sympathy and support.

TNR1, I appreciate u sharing the info with me. I thought I was informed about FELV and FIV but after reading all the info you've posted, I realized I dont.

I am more confused than ever.

FIRST, FELV and FIV aren't spread easily? ONLY thru fighting?

Secondly, if the feral is diagnosed with FELV or FIV then what is the best thing to do??? If the feral is released into the wild, then wouldn't it continue to spread (even if he/she was fixed-some still get in fights right?). Callie has been fixed now for over a year but I still see her chasing some other ferals off the porch and sometimes getting in fights before I can break it up..

Need further clarification on this. I have printed out the info you've shared and will bring this to the vet tmr. AFter tmr, I will not visit that place again because they were giving me wrong info and that really infuriates me. The nurse was telling me that FIV is easily spread thru sharing of food and water besides fighting!!


Giles, PLEASE FORGIVE ME for making this horrible decision. I need to know what the RIGHT AND BEST Thing is to do for ferals who are infected with FELV and FIV in my area..

Sicycat just told me that when she and another person were trapping ferals to get fixed that the Humane Society would put FELV & FIV cats to sleep...

Pamela...first...do not blame yourself at all. Giles was sick and how do you know he didn't have an advanced case of FIV?? He is out of his suffering now and you did all you could for him!!

Many people do not fully understand the disease and do attribute it to other things besides fighting (I wouldn't burn your bridges with the vet...simply provide this information so they can read it and consider it for the future).

Again...dealing with FIV is a personal decision. Groups like Alley Cat Allies do not test...but some of the caretakers who bring ferals to the clinic DO test (at their own vet). There are soo many ferals out there and you want to do the best by all of them...the other ferals may or may not be affected..and if they are...does it make sense to test them all and put the positive ones to sleep? (when there is the vacuum effect to consider) or do you simply watch this colony for any ferals that come across as acting sick and then trap that one feral and test it? There are no easy answers.

Just continue to do what you can for these ferals...it is sooo much more than most people would do for them.

Katie

Pamela.. please dont apologize. Let me tell you.. MOST organizations DO put the cats to sleep if the test positive for FELV or FIV. The lady that was helping us trap our ferals told us that the humane society would euthanize them if they tested positive. They cant let positive feral cats contiue to roam around infecting other cats.. I guess that's how they look at it. I mean if you were able to keep Giles inside, as an only cat.. that would be a different story. He could live a healthy live depending on what stage of the disease he was in.. but I dont think there are many organizations that will let you take back a feral cat with these diseases and release it back into the world.

**** hugs ****

Pamela, I echo what the others have said. Please don't beat yourself over this. You went on the advice you got from someone who should have all the facts.

Unfortunately, the facts aren't all that clear even now. There is still a lot of research being done on these diseases, how they are transferred (I understand it is generally through fighting and mating...), and the progression of the disease.

The decision on what to do (in the future) is a personal one. If you know the cat cannot possibly adapt to inside life, and does fight a lot, then I think the decision toward euthanasia should be weighed heavily. However, I also know that FIV+ cats can live a happy indoor life even with the disease. I know that at least one member here, Yola, has an FIV+ cat along with her FIV- Persians. He has adapted very well to indoor life and is not an aggressive cat at all (which she knew when she found he is positive). For Humane Societies it does make sense for them to euthanize FIV+ ferals. First, the stress of being in a cage and the enviroment can get even the heathiest of cats sick. Cats with diseases like FIV are VERY hard to adopt out...so the choice is: do they make room for a healthy cat or keep the space for a "sick" cat with low chances of adoption? It's a tough call for us animal lovers, but I understand the logistics of it. I know that rescuers go through this with infected colonies, and are forced to make the decision for the overall health of the colony to euthanize those who test positive.

You did what you thought, with the information you had, was best for Giles. You cared enough to do try, which is more than anyone else had done for him. I'm quite sure he would bear you no ill will for caring.

(((HUGS)))

Hi Pamela!

Have you caught Giles yet? The 2 of you are in my prayers; 1 - that you catch him soon & 2 nothing happens to him meanwhile. When my cat Charlie, escaped from the house in mid August, 2003. With the help of a cat shelter, who leant us 3 humane cat traps. It took alot of patience, food, & resetting the traps, because either raccoons would go into the traps, so they would be released. Or feral cats, which the shelter took & rehabilitated, got homes for. It took us 3 months to catch Charlie. So just be patient, keep calling him, tell him you have food for him. Now that Giles knows that there is food in the cage, you just never know. What I placed the traps into, was Hefty trash bags. Since the cages were long, & the only part which showed was the entrance. The front part of the cage, was covered with blankets, so the cat(s) would not see what it was, all they smelled was the food.