Cat with IBD-food choice questions

catpack · Oct 9, 2015

Doing both is counterproductive. With the z/d, the protein (chicken) is broken down to an amino acid form, so the body doesn't recognize it.

I have fed all 3 hypoallergenic diets (Purina HA, Hills z/d and Royal Canin's hyrdolyzed diet). I was able to feed the HA and the z/d for only about 4-6 weeks each as they both ended up causing diarrhea in all cats that had access to the food. I was feeding the diets due to having a kitten with atopy (he had skin sores on his head, ears and neck) and wasn't sure what he was allergic to (ended up being beef and later found out rabbit once we were doing food trials.)

Personally, if I suspect a food allergy, I start with a canned-only diet (Nature's Variety Instinct.). I typically start with turkey and if I don't see any improvement (hasn't happened yet), move to duck, rabbit or venison.

I like the NVI because they don't use gums or carrageenan as a thickener; both can cause problems in IBD/allergy kitties.

With that said, there are certainly cats that end up needing one of the prescription foods and do well on them. I just haven't had that experience.

mrsgreenjeens · Oct 9, 2015

Ty3535 said:
Great, thank you! Is the prozyme meant to treat urinary crystals? I really need something to help with that and was hoping because it's such a small amount twice a week the chicken and fish digestive enzymes wouldn't cause too much of a problem.

Oh, I guess I didn't understand that the digestive enzyme is actually an ingredient WITHIN the supplement.

Sorry 'bout that. No, the Prozyme is simply a digestive enzyme that doesn't contain chicken or fish.

So, that's an issue! What does your Vet say about all this? Has he actually blocked from stones before? I saw on your other thread you are looking for foods too...are you feeding dry or wet foods (read they he does better with little crunchies and wasn't sure if you were just talking about treats there or what)? Anyway, seems like most foods for crystals have either chicken or fish, right, is that how you figured out your guy may have IBD, because he either started vomiting or having diarrhea? did they actually do whatever test they have to do to confirm it? Or does he maybe have food sensitivities to chicken and/or fish?

lisahe · Oct 9, 2015

Ty3535 said:
My Enzo was recently diagnosed with IBD. The vet would like to put him on hills z/d, while I would just like to switch proteins (his triggers are either fish or chicken) such as turkey. Could I do both? Or does anyone have any experience with the hills z/d?

I do not have experience with hills z/d but looked up the canned food and saw that it has 40% carbohydrate in dry matter terms. Which is very, very high in carbs, particularly for a canned food! It must be the corn starch. My personal feeling is that I'd try just about everything else (including exotic raw meats!) before feeding a cat such high-carb food with corn.

But I do seem to have a vague recollection that someone had said that z/d helped stabilize a cat with a stubborn IBD problem. I'm sure it does work for some cats.

I was just about to post when I saw the @CatPack post, which takes pretty much the same approach I would use! I'd use a similar progression of proteins, feeding only foods without grains and carrageenan. Then drop the gums, too, if need be. I think CatPack's term "food trials" is perfect because the process has to be strict and the foods should be as simple as possible (in the sense of fewer ingredients), to make it easier to figure out what the cat's problem foods are.

ty3535 · Oct 9, 2015

LisaHE said:
I do not have experience with hills z/d but looked up the canned food and saw that it has 40% carbohydrate in dry matter terms. Which is very, very high in carbs, particularly for a canned food! It must be the corn starch. My personal feeling is that I'd try just about everything else (including exotic raw meats!) before feeding a cat such high-carb food with corn.

But I do seem to have a vague recollection that someone had said that z/d helped stabilize a cat with a stubborn IBD problem. I'm sure it does work for some cats.

I was just about to post when I saw the @CatPack
post, which takes pretty much the same approach I would use! I'd use a similar progression of proteins, feeding only foods without grains and carrageenan. Then drop the gums, too, if need be. I think CatPack's term "food trials" is perfect because the process has to be strict and the foods should be as simple as possible (in the sense of fewer ingredients), to make it easier to figure out what the cat's problem foods are.

Unfortunately he's being tube fed still and the food she wants us to give him through the tube is the z/d. I'm so bummed to hear about all the carbs. He's eating max cat turkey and giblets on his own so I'm pretty happy about that and hope the tube can be removed next week so we can stop the z/d. I think I'm going to try several types of turkey foods and see what sticks. I noticed guar gum is in almost everything so hopefully that's not a trigger!

ty3535 · Oct 9, 2015

CatPack said:
Doing both is counterproductive. With the z/d, the protein (chicken) is broken down to an amino acid form, so the body doesn't recognize it.

I have fed all 3 hypoallergenic diets (Purina HA, Hills z/d and Royal Canin's hyrdolyzed diet). I was able to feed the HA and the z/d for only about 4-6 weeks each as they both ended up causing diarrhea in all cats that had access to the food. I was feeding the diets due to having a kitten with atopy (he had skin sores on his head, ears and neck) and wasn't sure what he was allergic to (ended up being beef and later found out rabbit once we were doing food trials.)

Personally, if I suspect a food allergy, I start with a canned-only diet (Nature's Variety Instinct.). I typically start with turkey and if I don't see any improvement (hasn't happened yet), move to duck, rabbit or venison.

I like the NVI because they don't use gums or carrageenan as a thickener; both can cause problems in IBD/allergy kitties.

With that said, there are certainly cats that end up needing one of the prescription foods and do well on them. I just haven't had that experience.

After reading what @LisaHE found out about the z/d, I think that will be a last resort. I'll try the NVI and I found a few other turkey brands that seem acceptable, but only a few. He won't eat venison or rabbit, and I doubt he'll eat duck. So I'm praying the turkey work out!

ty3535 · Oct 9, 2015

mrsgreenjeens said:
Oh, I guess I didn't understand that the digestive enzyme is actually an ingredient WITHIN the supplement. :anon: Sorry 'bout that. No, the Prozyme is simply a digestive enzyme that doesn't contain chicken or fish.

So, that's an issue! What does your Vet say about all this? Has he actually blocked from stones before? I saw on your other thread you are looking for foods too...are you feeding dry or wet foods (read they he does better with little crunchies and wasn't sure if you were just talking about treats there or what)? Anyway, seems like most foods for crystals have either chicken or fish, right, is that how you figured out your guy may have IBD, because he either started vomiting or having diarrhea? did they actually do whatever test they have to do to confirm it? Or does he maybe have food sensitivities to chicken and/or fish?

Well the vet suggested I stop feeding him everything I had previously, including the supplement, but I didn't tell her the ingredients or the amount I'd need to give. He's never been blocked but has had very high amounts in his urine on occasion and has had UTI's. The supplement completely dissolved all the crystals and I really don't feel safe in stopping it. He eats only wet food but can only eat crunchy treats since he has only a few teeth =) we found out about the IBD because he vomited for 4 days in a row about a month ago. He went in for X-rays which showed thickening of the stomach so she sent us for an ultrasound which confirmed IBD.

lisahe · Oct 9, 2015

Here's the Hills page (link!). Honestly, even if the carbs were much lower, I still wouldn't want to feed corn to an IBD cat. Although with IBD, if something works, it works, and that's a good thing.

I'd forgotten that Enzo had the feeding tube!

Fingers crossed that he likes the NVI. Cats seem to either love it or hate it. (Ours are on the negative side... but lots of TCS members swear by it for their cats.)

BTW, here's the Merrick LID that I mentioned in your other thread, the food that does have chicken eggs and at least one of the ubiquitous gums. Our cats like both the turkey and the duck. They're not IBD cats but they have sensitive Siamese cat digestive systems. And I really hope they never develop a problem with chicken because it's their favorite!

ty3535 · Oct 9, 2015

LisaHE said:
Here's the Hills page (link!). Honestly, even if the carbs were much lower, I still wouldn't want to feed corn to an IBD cat. Although with IBD, if something works, it works, and that's a good thing.

I'd forgotten that Enzo had the feeding tube!

Fingers crossed that he likes the NVI. Cats seem to either love it or hate it. (Ours are on the negative side... but lots of TCS members swear by it for their cats.)

BTW, here's the Merrick LID that I mentioned in your other thread, the food that does have chicken eggs and at least one of the ubiquitous gums. Our cats like both the turkey and the duck. They're not IBD cats but they have sensitive Siamese cat digestive systems. And I really hope they never develop a problem with chicken because it's their favorite!

I wish I knew if it were fish or chicken causing the issue because Enzo loves chicken as well! Honestly his diet has been 80% tuna/seafood so I'm almost positive it's the fish.

kittyluv387 · Oct 9, 2015

Hello, if your cat is resistant to protein sources, you can try mixing it. So if he loves his turkey food, I would add a spoon of rabbit/duck/whatever, and keep increasing the percentage of the new protein.

mrsgreenjeens · Oct 11, 2015

Ty3535 said:
we found out about the IBD because he vomited for 4 days in a row about a month ago. He went in for X-rays which showed thickening of the stomach so she sent us for an ultrasound which confirmed IBD.

IBD cannot be confirmed via ultrasound. I can only be truly diagnosed via a biopsy. I'm not thoroughly convinced he has IBD. He may very well have a food sensitivity, and often they are sensitive to fish.

Please refer to this article from Cornell University re: IBD and things that "look" like it: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/health_information/brochure_ibd.cfm

ty3535 · Oct 11, 2015

mrsgreenjeens said:
IBD cannot be confirmed via ultrasound. I can only be truly diagnosed via a biopsy. I'm not thoroughly convinced he has IBD. He may very well have a food sensitivity, and often they are sensitive to fish.

Please refer to this article from Cornell University re: IBD and things that "look" like it: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/health_information/brochure_ibd.cfm

That was a very informative article but it didn't list any diseases that could mimic IBD. Lymphoma is the only illness the dr told me she couldn't rule out other than IBD. She said the ultrasound was the best way to get an idea of what was going on other than a biopsy which we didn't want to do unless necessary. Hopefully it is just a food allergy and changing his diet will help.

mrsgreenjeens · Oct 11, 2015

Ty3535 said:
That was a very informative article but it didn't list any diseases that could mimic IBD. Lymphoma is the only illness the dr told me she couldn't rule out other than IBD. She said the ultrasound was the best way to get an idea of what was going on other than a biopsy which we didn't want to do unless necessary. Hopefully it is just a food allergy and changing his diet will help.

Well, technically you're right. But I was referring to this paragraph when I made that statement:

"Making a diagnosis of feline IBD requires an extensive work up because many of the common symptoms of IBD, such as vomiting and diarrhea, are also common symptoms of other diseases. First, specific causes of gastrointestinal inflammation must be ruled out. Your veterinarian will likely recommend blood work, fecal examinations, radiographs, and/or an ultrasound check for metabolic disease, feline leukemia, parasitic or bacterial infections, and certain types of cancer. A hypoallergenic food trial may also be conducted to rule out food allergy."

And somewhere in the next paragraph (which I didn't copy here) is mention of pancreatic disease, which made me think of pancreatitis.

ty3535 · Oct 11, 2015

mrsgreenjeens said:
Well, technically you're right. But I was referring to this paragraph when I made that statement:

"Making a diagnosis of feline IBD requires an extensive work up because many of the common symptoms of IBD, such as vomiting and diarrhea, are also common symptoms of other diseases. First, specific causes of gastrointestinal inflammation must be ruled out. Your veterinarian will likely recommend blood work, fecal examinations, radiographs, and/or an ultrasound check for metabolic disease, feline leukemia, parasitic or bacterial infections, and certain types of cancer. A hypoallergenic food trial may also be conducted to rule out food allergy."

And somewhere in the next paragraph (which I didn't copy here) is mention of pancreatic disease, which made me think of pancreatitis.

Ah I missed that part. Well the radiologist and two vets have both looked at various X-rays and the full abdominal ultrasound, plus full blood work and they all seem confident in telling me they suspect IBD. The only symptom he had was vomiting for 4 days straight. I'm going to stop giving him seafood/fish and try him on a dufferent protein like turkey if he'll eat it and hopefully that helps.

Cat with IBD-food choice questions

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