My cat literally slashed my mother - Please Help :(

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

Both the vet and the behaviourist said that the elevated sugar level was probably due to stress and that it wasn't crucial at this point to repeat the blood test. In the meantime I got sick, so I couldn't take Grizzly to the vet. We'll do that after the 1st week of September. Right now, a session with the behaviourist is more vital. So, I am waiting to be perfectly fine fist, in order to avoid transmitting him my stomach flu. I am not fully recovered yet

I can't wear socks with 100°C right now..

Unless I had a death wish

I asked my neighbour, not only about the last time but in general.. They didn't say anything. But if something had happened and they dealt with it by hitting him, they wouldn't admit to it.. I don't think I'll get anything out of them.. Grizzly is not visiting them again and that's final.. Cause his change, is extremely close to the time he visited them.. So I have my suspicions.. Also, they act a bit weird around my mom.. The whole building were concerned and dropped by to see how she was doing.. They live right next to us and all they did was to ask once about what happened and then never heard of them again.. This looks a bit suspicious to me.. Then again, I am not 100% certain..

Columbine · Aug 22, 2015

Great update!

Knowing Grizzly's 'story' makes a huge difference, and his behaviours are starting to make a little more sense. Make sure you pass on all that information to the behaviourist - it'll definitely help a lot

I'm so glad you're getting Grizzly to eat on a schedule now - it can help in so many ways (not least when you're trying to pill him

). I love that you're getting more cuddles again, and that he's managing to chill out a little.

I think your neighbours could well be the root of Grizzly's problems from what you say. Think about it - he got used to being trodden on/tripped over as a kitten (which would have felt threatening to him, however unintentional it was). In response to that he starts mouthing you (it sounds more like that than actual biting to me). If he was then beaten by someone, that old defensive feeling could have been reawakened, triggering his more extreme behaviour. Pair that with raging hormones, and you may well have a large part of your explanation. That isn't to say that he may not still need medication to help him stay stable, but being able to piece the story together really does change how one views his behaviour.

@siamiam2 - its not at all hard to get cats to eat on a schedule - you simply start feeding at regular times, and remove any uneaten food when they walk away. They'll very quickly get the message that they have to eat when the food it put down.

margd · Aug 22, 2015

Oh, I really hope Grizzly was not hit by your neighbors. That would explain a lot though. Still, I thought they were fond of him?

For now, please get better!

Columbine · Aug 22, 2015

Margd said:
For now, please get better!

That goes for me too!

Can't believe I missed that bit out

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

Columbine said:
Great update!

Knowing Grizzly's 'story' makes a huge difference, and his behaviours are starting to make a little more sense. Make sure you pass on all that information to the behaviourist - it'll definitely help a lot

I'm so glad you're getting Grizzly to eat on a schedule now - it can help in so many ways (not least when you're trying to pill him

). I love that you're getting more cuddles again, and that he's managing to chill out a little.

I think your neighbours could well be the root of Grizzly's problems from what you say. Think about it - he got used to being trodden on/tripped over as a kitten (which would have felt threatening to him, however unintentional it was). In response to that he starts mouthing you (it sounds more like that than actual biting to me). If he was then beaten by someone, that old defensive feeling could have been reawakened, triggering his more extreme behaviour. Pair that with raging hormones, and you may well have a large part of your explanation. That isn't to say that he may not still need medication to help him stay stable, but being able to piece the story together really does change how one views his behaviour.

@siamiam2 - its not at all hard to get cats to eat on a schedule - you simply start feeding at regular times, and remove any uneaten food when they walk away. They'll very quickly get the message that they have to eat when the food it put down.

Yes, @Columbine I was having similar thoughts, regarding the neighbours.. They claim to have had cats all their lives - maybe they had. But I don't think they were trained on how to treat a cat. I mean.. Many people have had pets, but in their own terms.. A person I know, tamed his cat by punishing her as a baby. Sure, she's well behaved now, but I'm thinking she's more "afraid" than "well trained".. Maybe my neighbours are like that. Grizzly bit the woman the last time he was there. They told me so, because I asked if anything happened (this conversation took place before the incident with my mother, when I was not suspicious at all). So, if Grizzly bit her and their only way they knew to handle it was by hitting him, or spanking him just to bring him back to his senses (I'm not saying the beat the crap out of him), they would avoid telling me, cause they know how I feel about any form of violence.. And they've seen that I've been positively training him since he was a baby. I am not saying they have been intentionally mean towards him.. I'm just saying that maybe they didn't know any better.

As for the medication part, I really hope that I can work on him without pills.. While I tried giving him the pill, he seemed confused. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing and I was constantly experimenting on how to give it to him.. One member said that he may be on to me.. Which could be true! Yes, the pill did make him calm at times.. But through the whole process he got confused, suspicious of everything I fed him. If one treat with pill was successful one time, it would be a failure the next time.. So, I just stopped trying, not to give up, but to examine how he would be like without the pills (I already had given him Xanax for maybe 4-5 days, give or take). The good thing is that he seemed like he didn't need Xanax anymore.. He was "OK" without being pilled. And he stopped getting suspicious every time I brought him a treat.. Right now it's been.. what? 4 days without the pill? Maybe more? Can't remember when I logged on before I got sick.. And he's just fine. Pretty close to how he was before all this.

Regarding the "scheduled feeding": I picked it up from Jackson Galaxy's site. I don't know if you agree with the guy, but it contains many useful tips and explanations. I've followed some of his advice and they do work. Not always, but if I stick to them, they'll grow into Grizzly eventually - I hope..

So what I do, because right now we're in a "transitional phase", I leave some food in the bowl, so as Grizzly doesn't feel I'm leaving him to starve to death or something

I fill the bowl with a "good" portion of food (dry or wet) 4 times a day - morning, noon, evening and the last one approximately at 22:00. Especially before the last one I play with him, until I wear him out.. Then he gets to be fed, then he grooms himself, goes sleepy and BOOM

. Then I can easily go to bed too.. We sleep together up to one point. If he gets hungry during the night, I do have a small portion of food in his bowl (as I do in between the meals). So, 2 things happen: either he wakes up during the night and wants to play and starts biting my toes or he sees I'm asleep and he doesn't bother me, eats and goes back to bed, untill the morning meal.. That's pretty much it. I can see he's toned it down a lot after the scheduled feeding.. He's more playful and less aggressive, by the day.

Margd said:
Oh, I really hope Grizzly was not hit by your neighbors. That would explain a lot though. Still, I thought they were fond of him?

For now, please get better!

@Margd they are fond of him. I just think they don't know how to handle him. If they have hit him, in an effort to tame him after a bite, they may have done this because it might have worked on other cats they used to have. But not all cats are the same.. There are cats that go into submission once you spank them a bit, or hit them a lot and never repeat the same mistake again. But other cats tend to behave even worse. If you ask me, I'd never hit an animal. Regardless of being effective or not. I have gladly hit humans, though

Another thing I've been thinking is whether they are the ones who have created his fear of brooms, mops etc.. Everything that has a stick, in general.. See my point?

I will get better, thanks for that

it's only a matter of time

Columbine said:
That goes for me too!

Can't believe I missed that bit out

Ugh! Shame on you, @Columbine! Hahahahahah! (just kidding

)

siamiam2 · Aug 22, 2015

Columbine? I do that all spring and summer. It's a small apt and food left out in the open could generate flies so I cover it. The difference is that hat she still eats at whim. I'm guessing that the word no is employed in Grizzlies case? If he wants to eat and its not time yet? I'd kinda hate that and glad it doesn't apply to us but what you're saying then is doing behavior modification?

kkoerner · Aug 22, 2015

siamiam2 said:
Columbine? I do that all spring and summer. It's a small apt and food left out in the open could generate flies so I cover it. The difference is that hat she still eats at whim. I'm guessing that the word no is employed in Grizzlies case? If he wants to eat and its not time yet? I'd kinda hate that and glad it doesn't apply to us but what you're saying then is doing behavior modification?

You don't have to tell him "no" to keep him from eating. It's no different than people eating breakfast, lunch and dinner.... You just take one days worth of food, split it in the number of meals you want, and serve only that portion at each time.

For example: My cat, Cadbury, eats 5.5 ounces of homemade raw a day, split in 3. For breakfast he gets 2 ounces, lunch-1.5 ounces, dinner-2 ounces. It stays out at max 30 minutes (usually only 1-5 minutes though). If he finishes, his bowl is cleaned and ready for his next meal. If not, and it is a day someone is home all day, it goes back in the fridge for an hour or so and he gets another chance at it in case he just wasn't ready the first time. If he doesn't eat it then, he waits til his next meal. I do not leave out food overnight.

siamiam2 · Aug 22, 2015

My day is reversed Columbine so? I do things a bit different. Also though, Annabel eats what she wants when she wants. I'm home all day. I have absolutely no clue why when windows have screens in them they're tight enough to fit the window, flies are still possible. I do keep the temp. moderated, as I said I need room temp at all times, but there's still no explanation. I'm puzzled.

siamiam2 · Aug 22, 2015

Grizzly? Neighbor friend or for seems in ? from that one. Would they hit him?? Swat? That depends on the person and I can't judge. It must be hard for you trying to juggle all of this and a stomach flu. It is nice so many care about your mother and perhaps the people you live around might be considered a mixed bag? But kindly overall

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

@siamiam2 just to clarify: Grizzly DOES eat whenever he wants, because there's actually always food in the bowl. Just not "unlimited" quantity of it during the whole day. I just increase the quantity whenever it's time to feed him a proper meal. And that's cause he is on a transitional period.. When he's used to eating on meals, instead of "free-feeding", then I won't leave food out - only during the night. Also, the food that is available out, is dry food.. In case I didn't make it clear: he doesn't eat less... He eats as much as he ate before.

Now it's 07:40 in the morning here and I had a very good night's sleep.. He ate his last meal for the day, last night at 23:00 and by 00:30 he was sleeping like a baby.. I went to bed later, but still managed to sleep peacefully without him interrupting me. He ate some dry food (I checked the bowl once I woke up) during the night and went back to sleep. Cause he was still sleeping when I got up. So, I'm guessing, this "scheduled feeding" must be working somehow.

Now he just devoured a hard boiled egg yolk, then some wet food.. along with some dry food as well.. He's eaten like a little pig for breakfast

Of course until his next meal, he will have a treat or two.. Like a bit of turkey. For the time being he's groomed himself and has already started his "Cirque du Soleil" tricks around the house..

@KKoerner you cook raw for Cadbury? Would you like to share?

kkoerner · Aug 22, 2015

Oh...I just started feeding him raw not too long ago. This is the first week that it's all he got.I was feeding him a mix of wet and dry food. I bought some frozen raw to see if he liked it...then I decided to make some once he had been eating some of that mixed into his wet food.

So far I've only made one batch of food and I didn't want to commit myself too much in case it didn't work out for him, so I just bought a pre-mix supplement meant for boneless meat and some chicken thighs. So it was just the supplement mix, egg yolk, chicken thigh meat and some skin, and water. He has been finishing it all now and eating just that so I think we are good to go!

I may try other meats later and eventually get a grinder that can grind bone so I can either mix my own supplements or use a premix meant for bone in meat. For now though, I'm going to keep using boneless for a while and can use my grinder attachment for my kitchenaid stand mixer. I'm still figuring it all out LOL

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

@KKoerner Nice going there! I was looking into it when Grizzly was growing up.. About cooking raw, grinding and such.. But I was - and still am - scared I might mess it up and don't manage to provide him with the proper nutrients he needs.

How about the chicken thigh meat? I mean, how do you clean it, so that it contains no bacteria or salmonella etc?

Here in Greece I have seen B.A.R.F. food like the one from Nature's Menu.. Is it something like that, when you say pre-mix supplement? Or is it the additional nutrients you enrich the meat with? Like taurine, vit E etc?

siamiam2 · Aug 22, 2015

It is absolutely amazing how agile cats are. Sometimes like a gymnast. Añnabel puts her hind legs up and I could swear she's gonna do a routine on the pimmel horse. I never mind being woken up by her. To me its a taste of humanity I so long for. To need and be appreciated for it when I respond to the need.

kkoerner · Aug 22, 2015

I just rinsed the meat off, but have read that you can partially bake it to kill surface bacteria. Check out the nutrition/homemade food forum here! It has a lot of information! Salmonella isn't too much of a concern for cats because of the way their digestive system works and I make sure I clean up his eating area and bowl each time as well as not letting the food sit out. I read they pass Salmonella more in their poop when they've been eating raw but I'm obviously not eating his poop and washing hands after scooping takes care of that. :-D

The pre-mix supplement is vitamins and minerals needed to make the plain meat a complete diet. Since it is for boneless meat, it has calcium and then yes, things like taurine, and different vitamins, omega 3, etc. I mix it all up and freeze it in portions and just take out what he will eat in a couple of days.

It can be scary (my husband is still not totally sold on it) but it all kinda comes down to proper meat handling and sanitation as far as the bacteria issue is concerned and then following a well established recipe for a balanced diet.

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

siamiam2 said:
It is absolutely amazing how agile cats are. Sometimes like a gymnast. Añnabel puts her hind legs up and I could swear she's gonna do a routine on the pimmel horse. I never mind being woken up by her. To me its a taste of humanity I so long for. To need and be appreciated for it when I respond to the need.

I don't mind waking up when Grizzly needs to cuddle or something. But when he bites my toes and I am like sprang out of bed in the middle of my sleep..? well.. Not so happy at that point! Especially now that, after all what's happened with my mom, I've been stressed, exhausted, strang out and really need a good nights sleep to cope with the following day.. and the following after that and so on

So funny what you wrote about pommel horse! LOL exactly that!! I couldn't have described it better!! HAHAHAH! Grizzly does that too sometimes in order to clean his "private areas"

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

KKoerner said:
I just rinsed the meat off, but have read that you can partially bake it to kill surface bacteria. Check out the nutrition/homemade food forum here! It has a lot of information! Salmonella isn't too much of a concern for cats because of the way their digestive system works and I make sure I clean up his eating area and bowl each time as well as not letting the food sit out. I read they pass Salmonella more in their poop when they've been eating raw but I'm obviously not eating his poop and washing hands after scooping takes care of that. :-D

The pre-mix supplement is vitamins and minerals needed to make the plain meat a complete diet. Since it is for boneless meat, it has calcium and then yes, things like taurine, and different vitamins, omega 3, etc. I mix it all up and freeze it in portions and just take out what he will eat in a couple of days.

It can be scary (my husband is still not totally sold on it) but it all kinda comes down to proper meat handling and sanitation as far as the bacteria issue is concerned and then following a well established recipe for a balanced diet.

@KKoerner I'll check the forum about homemade food - I hadn't seen it actually..

When I asked about salmonella, I was more concerned about Cadbury.. LOL I am not saying I don't give a damn about you, of course! Haha!

But I am a bit concerned about what happens to kitties if they consume meat with salmonella and other bacteria as well. Rinsing the meat, doesn't seem "enough" though.. I am not judging! I am just wondering if you could do what I do, when I store meat in the freezer. I rinse it in hot water and then I put the meat in a large bowl filled with hot water and white vinegar. The 2nd really helps to kill any kind of bacteria. Also, deep freezing helps to kill bacteria as well. Salmonella too.

Make sure to wash thoroughly with bleach (am I saying this correctly?) any surface you use, right after you're done cutting and generally handling the raw meat. Any kind of raw meat is a potential carrier of salmonella and bacteria, no matter how good the breeder is. Accidents happen. Also the people who transport the meats from the breeder to the shops are not always to be trusted.. So, rinsing it with hot water and then leaving it for about 20 mins in hot water and white vinegar does a good job. The white vinegar doesn't need to be in a large quantity.. For example fill the bowl with the hot water and then pour some vinegar.. Give it a stir and you're done for the next 20 mins or so. I also do that with greens, vegetables etc before I prepare them for a salad. In general? White Vinegar RULES

kkoerner · Aug 22, 2015

GrizzlySapien said:
I don't mind waking up when Grizzly needs to cuddle or something. But when he bites my toes and I am like sprang out of bed in the middle of my sleep..? well.. Not so happy at that point! Especially now that, after all what's happened with my mom, I've been stressed, exhausted, strang out and really need a good nights sleep to cope with the following day.. and the following after that and so on ara3:

So funny what you wrote about pommel horse! LOL exactly that!! I couldn't have described it better!! HAHAHAH! Grizzly does that too sometimes in order to clean his "private areas" :lol3:

Cadbury will bite my toes too if I either don't have socks on or they aren't under a sheet/blanket. He will also attack the blanket if it moves...and sometimes that's my feet. He does it cause he wants to play. He hasn't been doing it lately and it's been hot so I haven't been wearing socks or hiding my feet! LOL I think I accidently pushed him off the bed last time with my feet and he got the hint. Or...he is waiting for when I least suspect it and now that I said he hasn't been doing it...tonight may be the night.... I'm gonna bite his toes while he sleeps! LOL (no...not really...yuck!)

siamiam2 · Aug 22, 2015

And still they say that cats are the cleanest animals on the planet. Now we know why. They don't have to wash their hands! Lol ( laughing out loud). [emoji]128518[/emoji] I wouldn't want a dog, can't cuddle them.

grizzlysapien · Aug 22, 2015

KKoerner said:
Cadbury will bite my toes too if I either don't have socks on or they aren't under a sheet/blanket. He will also attack the blanket if it moves...and sometimes that's my feet. He does it cause he wants to play. He hasn't been doing it lately and it's been hot so I haven't been wearing socks or hiding my feet! LOL I think I accidently pushed him off the bed last time with my feet and he got the hint. Or...he is waiting for when I least suspect it and now that I said he hasn't been doing it...tonight may be the night.... I'm gonna bite his toes while he sleeps! LOL (no...not really...yuck!)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

I really laughed outloud on that one!

Grizzly bites my toes through the sheet as well! Cause I move them and he thinks he HAS to attack them! It's like "Oh, a little alien is about to emerge! Let's kill it!"

The thing is that Grizzly started doing so after the whole thing with my mom.. Maybe it was time for him to start doing it? I don't know.. Because as he grows up, he introduces me to a whole world of new tricks and habbits! It's good to know that his "polite twin" does that too.. I thought that Grizzly was being the "genuinely evil twin". Phew! (except.. he is.. haha!)

It'll be easier during the winter with the quilts and stuff.. We won't feel a thing! LOL

I have accidentally pushed him off the bed too.. Oh, I felt horrible! I got up and tried to bring him back to bed asking him to forgive me (yeah, I really did that..) but he kept going away..

And what you say here:

KKoerner said:
Or...he is waiting for when I least suspect it and now that I said he hasn't been doing it...tonight may be the night.... I'm gonna bite his toes while he sleeps! LOL (no...not really...yuck!)

It happens ALL THE TIME.. What is that?? Whenever I'm like "oh today he was so good, blah blah blah" he'll go and do EXACTLY what I fear he might do..

Yeah, I've given serious thought on biting HIS toes for a change.. I do admit to that. I am talking SERIOUS thought! But yeah.. yuck.. They've stepped into their litter sand for cryin' out loud..

kkoerner · Aug 22, 2015

LOL I do clean the area I cut the meat up on!

Salmonella is a "risk" whether you feed dry or raw. But, it's more of a risk to people than cats. Cats digestive systems are designed to carry things through it must faster than ours does, and Salmonella is commonly found in their systems regardless of diet.

Here is the raw feeding resources page. It has information about much more than just bacteria/salmonella concerns!

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264154/raw-feeding-resources

My cat literally slashed my mother - Please Help :(

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