cat ethics: whether or not to relocate a fixed feral

This is true, what @Norachan  said about his cries, they are the cries of unfamiliarity and will get less and less.

There is always a transitional period but if you focus on the picture as a whole, there will never be a better outdoor place like your safe/warm, caring home.

That life is extremely hard on a cat, so given a chance to adapt, he will soon get a taste of how life is supposed to feel for a kitty

He is a lucky guy for sure!

SUPER JOB!!!!!!!!!! And, this is definitely a kitty already TNRd too. I saw the perfect V-notch in your earlier picture. I don't like the V-notch because it is much harder to see at a distance whether or not a feral cat is TNRd. Anyway, this makes things MUCH easier that he is already done. :nod: It is great that he went to easily into the trap too. :bigthumb: Don't worry about who did the TNR or where he "should" be. With feral cats, they WILL wander and relocate according to social dynamics, territorial fighting, etc. He is where he is now because he is meant to be there. :nod: IF you want to notify the organization of this boy and that you have so kindly taken him in then I would do so. He should be microchipped with all of the information. That way the org. can notify the caretaker, IF there was still one. Sadly, sometimes there are none. They are just all trapped, fixed, and released back to where they were found to fend for themselves. The ultimate goal of TNR is hopefully to have a caretaker of the cats, but this is always not a possibility or reality. The important part of TNR is to stop more kittens being born and to help decrease the feral cat population.

I have always had success with this litter additive. It is not catnip and really, a feral cat will have no interest in catnip at this point in time. He is hyper-vigilant to every little thing right not and will blow right past any good effects of the catnip. Try this and use almost the whole bottle in the Dr. Elsey's Precious Cat. Also, you can bring in some dirt and add that in the mix.

Please check out this article on helpful tips and advice on socializing a feral cat: http://www.catnipchronicles.com/may2012/laurie.htm

Make sure he has many, many cubbies and hidey holes in the room to help settle him in. Feliway is great. AND you can even get Spirit Essences from Jackson Galaxy and dribble around the room, rub into his bed, etc. etc. They REALLY work and I am having extremely excellent success right now using them. Specifically this one http://www.spiritessences.com/product-p/feral-flower-formula.htm

Geronimo is VERY lucky to have found you. He is a beautiful boy and if you have TONS and TONS of patience and no expectations - progress will come. It always does. The beginning stages and initial couple of weeks are really tough. Try to stay positive and calm at all times. Hey - Rescue Remedy is always helpful for the caretaker to use on themselves!!!

I don't have any advice to add, all the bases have been covered already. I just wanted to say THANK YOU for caring. :rub: I'm sure the GORGEOUS Geronimo will be happier in his new location. :heart2:

Actually - on second thought - I do have one suggestion. I just relocated six cats, and I expected them to move out of the place that contained their confinement cages into the shelters ASAP. That didn't happen - they made the place that contained their cages home base. Given you have to move him from the bedroom to outside - basically another territory move - I think making him a shelter that will move outside with him is a good idea. He may not use it in the room as he's chosen his simple box. But if you put a clean towel (no scent or softeners used on it) you can donate to him for the purpose, when you go to let him out, you can take that towel that smells like him, and put it in the shelter that's been in the room (so it is at least familiar). Assuming you're not releasing him outside on a rainy day, you can even consider putting the litter box he's been using next to it for a day or two. Cats are SO scent oriented, this *may* help.

Also, do you use any kind of call when you put food out for the outside cats? Do you have a set time you do it? Making that same call inside (or establishing one, if you don't have one) and feeding at a set time or set times will also help that transition from inside to outside.

I believe you asked in your original entry if your actions were ethical. My reaction is only in response to that part of inquiry. The question I believe is two fold- What about his caregiver? What is best for him as a feral? Who has claim to him and is security for him more important than freedom? Everyone answers through a perspective based on their personal experiences and what they consider ideal. Is inside always better? Caring is tricky sometimes.

pocho said:

I believe you asked in your original entry if your actions were ethical. My reaction is only in response to that part of inquiry. The question I believe is two fold- What about his caregiver? What is best for him as a feral? Who has claim to him and is security for him more important than freedom? Everyone answers through a perspective based on their personal experiences and what they consider ideal. Is inside always better? Caring is tricky sometimes.

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I agree to a point! As feral caregivers, yes, we would always like to know what happened to one of our "missing" ferals from the colony BUT we also know we have NO control over their safety or whereabouts. It would be a blessing and a gift to get a call from the ORG. with notification/update on a feral cat from your colony that has been taken in by a kind soul. Usually, that never happens but as a caretaker we will always welcome the kindness and love as we want more than anything for a feral cat to have a permanent home - indoor is best if at all possible for a socialized feral, IMO. AND, to know what happened to our missing feral. Most times the missing ones are not so fortunate. Wanted to add in as I mentioned in my earlier post that some (a good percentage) of TNRd feral cats are trapped and sterilized in large groups (colonies) and returned to their territory without any caretaker so if one finds an ear tipped feral cat most times there is no caretaker missing them. I don't think anyone should not worry about contacting a caretaker or trying the organization. This is a feral caretaker's dream come true to have someone willing to take in any feral cat. Most organizations are just too overwhelmed with just trying to get cats TNRd to really be concerned. Of course, as I said earlier, the OP can surely contact the org. by checking info. on the microchip if willing.

pocho said:

I believe you asked in your original entry if your actions were ethical. My reaction is only in response to that part of inquiry. The question I believe is two fold- What about his caregiver? What is best for him as a feral? Who has claim to him and is security for him more important than freedom? Everyone answers through a perspective based on their personal experiences and what they consider ideal. Is inside always better? Caring is tricky sometimes.

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My understanding is that the room is being used for the location transition. He is not being moved inside, and will still have his freedom. He will be living in a more secure area with food, shelter and care.

And how on earth would one find a specific cat's colony?

Exactly, unless of course the caregiver actually came to where the cat hung out to feed, they would likely continue leaving food for some time despite the cat missing, just in case he came back.

Then a note can be left for them, telling them the cat is safe and will be cared for.

Otherwise, everything else about this is wonderful, I would be extremely happy to have any of my cats who I have TNR'd and care for now on my regular route in town, to have the opportunity to be safe and cared for rather than living outside of office bldgs with no shelter other than bushes, etc. 

That's no life.

I agree that, if he did have a caretaker, he/she might be worried or at least wondering where kitty went, but he very well may not have, since there was not a sign of food or other ferals around where he was.

Usually a feral cat will not wander far at all from it's feeding spot, which he will consider like a home base.

This guy was alone, and had no food left other than the OP, which is why he decided to bring him home for acclimating.

I consider him a true hero with a very kind, generous heart.

@roguethecat  you are making this one little cat's life so much better by bringing him home

So what was meant then about whether it was ethical? if it wasn't about the possible owner or the cats preferences? What was the worry or hesitation based on? I am sure it was more than is it ethical to help a cat? Lol

I can't speak for Roguethecat, but we recently moved, and which feral cats to bring and which to leave in place was a real quandry for me. Obviously my recent experience informs my understanding of the question, but I took it to mean is Geronimo better off in the territory he knows, or is it better for him to relocate him and hope he'll integrate into an existing colony.

Obviously roguethecat is doing this right, but relocating a feral cat can effectively be a form of abandonment when inserted into a new territory.

I consider him a true hero with a very kind, generous heart.

@roguethecat  you are making this one little cat's life so much better by bringing him home

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 I'm telling him that. He now actually talks to me, from his post in front of the window (which is cracked open to the yard where he'll escape to when he's ready). I cleaned most of his messes with odormute last night - love the stuff, so far. It did leave most of the floor wet of course, so Geronimo finally decided to give the litterbox a try.

He's very unlikely to have a microchip. Around here, they usually just microchip the socialized ones up for adoption. I did send his picture out to my TNR contact who agreed that there are better ways to mark a fixed cat.

This is the San Francisco Bay Area with balmy climate, cats multiplying like crazy and shelters overflowing with unwanted ones (I myself found the Rogue inside my car's engine when he was just 4 weeks old, although I'll never say he was unwanted). 

Ah so we're neighbors! I am about 1/2 hour from San Francisco

roguethecat said:

He's very unlikely to have a microchip. Around here, they usually just microchip the socialized ones up for adoption. I did send his picture out to my TNR contact who agreed that there are better ways to mark a fixed cat.
This is the San Francisco Bay Area with balmy climate, cats multiplying like crazy and shelters overflowing with unwanted ones (I myself found the Rogue inside my car's engine when he was just 4 weeks old, although I'll never say he was unwanted). 

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The orgs. in my area chip all feral TNRd cats. It is for their own protection and identification stating they are part of a TNRd colony and if they end up in a shelter they will not be euthanized and the org will be contacted. The V-notch ear tip, IMO, is useless and extremely hard to identify from a distance. Many feral cats will get into fights and their ears are slashed so there are sometimes I can't tell if the cat has a damaged ear on top of a V-notch. The straight across tip is much preferred.

I hope the SF area is big on TNR and keep on going with it regardless of chipping or not. The whole point of TNR is to slow the feral cat population and to save unwanted/homeless innocent kittens from being born.

Keep up the great work with Geronimo and a BIG thank you for doing so.

LDG said:

I can't speak for Roguethecat,

. Obviously my recent experience informs my understanding of the question, but I took it to mean is Geronimo better off in the territory he knows, or is it better for him to relocate him and hope he'll integrate into an existing colony.

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Yup. My understanding too in regards to the thread title including the word "ethical". It meant - relocation ethical. Not indoor or outdoor ethics. Completely different subject. :nod:

Yes I guess so. Is taking the risk of potentially harming an animal in attempts to help it ethical? That was what she was worried about. I think the consensus here is it is worth the risk and not necessarily unethical. It's not unethical for you because you sound capable of following the task through and have a good heart for him. If you sounded like a person completely inept I think the thread would sound differently [emoji]9786[/emoji] including quotes from Alley Cats about only relocating if no other options exist. I relocating some of my ferals now due to ridiculously dangerous situations. I know others will take their places and it will solve nothing. Actually I was thinking of writing ACA to beg them to take over and make things right because it is impossible catch 22 here.

catwoman707 said:

 
Ah so we're neighbors! I am about 1/2 hour from San Francisco

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I knew that

Feralvr said:

Yup. My understanding too in regards to the thread title including the word "ethical". It meant - relocation ethical. Not indoor or outdoor ethics. Completely different subject.

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yup. sorry for any misunderstandings (I'm not a native English speaker, sometimes it shows).

Feralvr said:

 The V-notch ear tip, IMO, is useless and extremely hard to identify from a distance. Many feral cats will get into fights and their ears are slashed so there are sometimes I can't tell if the cat has a damaged ear on top of a V-notch. The straight across tip is much preferred.

I hope the SF area is big on TNR and keep on going with it regardless of chipping or not. The whole point of TNR is to slow the feral cat population and to save unwanted/homeless innocent kittens from being born.

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Definitely! That's why I was running around with a 30x zoom camera from all possible angles.

There are lots of TNR groups around, doing what they can.

roguethecat said:

Feralvr said:

 The V-notch ear tip, IMO, is useless and extremely hard to identify from a distance. Many feral cats will get into fights and their ears are slashed so there are sometimes I can't tell if the cat has a damaged ear on top of a V-notch. The straight across tip is much preferred.


I hope the SF area is big on TNR and keep on going with it regardless of chipping or not. The whole point of TNR is to slow the feral cat population and to save unwanted/homeless innocent kittens from being born.

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Definitely! That's why I was running around with a 30x zoom camera from all possible angles.
There are lots of TNR groups around, doing what they can.:rub:

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:lol3: Been there as well running around with binoculars!!! Ooooooo great use of the 30x zoom camera!! SUPER to hear about all of the TNR efforts in your area.

roguethecat- So glad he seems to be adapting. I love his name!

 I also live in the SF bay area and I know that you are doing the right thing. For one thing the chances are the group that tnr'd him are stretched so thin and if he was released into a business district it's a good bet they are not keeping track. They trap/neuter and reale AND move on. I understand the area and I know how many ferals there are ( of course, not down to the precise number).

Just on a side note, if Geronimo does have further litter box problems try the Cat Attract. I see that it is recommended even for kittens so I really doubt there is catnip in it. Kittens under 6 months aren't attracted to catnip. At least that is the conventional wisdom

Maureen Bradley said:

 
 I also live in the SF bay area and I know that you are doing the right thing. For one thing the chances are the group that tnr'd him are stretched so thin and if he was released into a business district it's a good bet they are not keeping track. They trap/neuter and reale AND move on. I understand the area and I know how many ferals there are ( of course, not down to the precise number).

Just on a side note, if Geronimo does have further litter box problems try the Cat Attract. I see that it is recommended even for kittens so I really doubt there is catnip in it. Kittens under 6 months aren't attracted to catnip. At least that is the conventional wisdom

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 yay! soon we can open a local chapter!

Geronimo has figured the box out. He even vomited into the box  , poor thing. He vomited twice now, once after eating Friskies pate and then after eating Taste of the Wild. His poop looks entirely normal, so he probably doesn't have any internal issues, but is stressed out from being in a strange place. He pees surprisingly little, and doesn't touch his water bowl.

Feliway diffuser is no good because his window is open. I keep telling him he's all right and will get out soon. 

He does have a towel, intended for him to sit on on his perch in front of the window, but he chooses to throw it down and sit on the desk instead (I place it back with a treat on, and he'll dart out of hiding and get the treat). He also disliked an old blanket (ok, not old, but stolen from an airplane. I love those tiny blankets you get on long-distance flights, perfect for covering a cat trap).  

roguethecat said:

 

 yay! soon we can open a local chapter!

Geronimo has figured the box out. He even vomited into the box 

, poor thing. He vomited twice now, once after eating Friskies pate and then after eating Taste of the Wild. His poop looks entirely normal, so he probably doesn't have any internal issues, but is stressed out from being in a strange place. He pees surprisingly little, and doesn't touch his water bowl.

Feliway diffuser is no good because his window is open. I keep telling him he's all right and will get out soon. 

He does have a towel, intended for him to sit on on his perch in front of the window, but he chooses to throw it down and sit on the desk instead (I place it back with a treat on, and he'll dart out of hiding and get the treat). He also disliked an old blanket (ok, not old, but stolen from an airplane. I love those tiny blankets you get on long-distance flights, perfect for covering a cat trap).

 

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Heeh, I love those airplane blankies too

I had faith he would use the box soon enough so that's a very good thing!

Usually when a cat isn't drinking enough so they're not peeing so much, it's longer in between pees, rather than a small amt, so this is something that really needs to be watched.

How big is his pee ball compared to a golf ball?

catwoman707 said:

Usually when a cat isn't drinking enough so they're not peeing so much, it's longer in between pees, rather than a small amt, so this is something that really needs to be watched.

How big is his pee ball compared to a golf ball?

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...he was peeing all right, just not everything made it into the box 

now that the room smells to his liking  he makes decent pee sizes into his box, and I'll have another go with the odormute.