At home euthanasia vs. vet's office

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wasabipea

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I'm so glad you're getting some relatively good time to spend with your baby.  Such good news that she's eating better and hanging out with you more.  I know you are enjoying every minute you can with her.  What happened with the subq fluids--did you start doing it at home or are you taking her in for it?

Travis is calming down.  He still yowls during the night sometimes which he never did before.  I think he wakes up and wonders where Molly is.  Even though there are plenty of cat beds to use, those two always shared one.  But the other day I spied him and Hannah (Molly's sister) curled up sleeping next to each other.  Not snuggled up together like Travis and Molly used to do, but Hannah's always been very stand offish so to see her sleeping that close to him at all was a minor miracle and looked very sweet--maybe they're keeping each other company.  
Yay! Curled up and sleeping next to each other is a start :)  I do wish Roni had another feline friend to keep her company, but that just didn't work out.

Roni has been sleeping with me occasionallysince Len passed, which she never really did. Len was the "sleep with mommy" cat. Roni was meowing during the other night, but not the yowls that were immediately after he was euthanized.

I'm ashamed to admit, I still have to take her in for fluids. I just can't do it :(  Probably if I had an extra set of hands, but just me... I'm scared of not getting a good enough grip and poking her muscle or thru the skin or myself or all of the above.

Her kidney numbers are good now, in the normal range - but I think the extra fluids help her feel better with the (possibile/probable) cancer. Hey, since Molly had thin skin like Roni... did you notice a "crinkling" sound 2-3 days after giving fluids (in the area that the fluids are administered, the shoulder area)? When I pet her there, and I try to keep a light touch in that area in case she is sore), it sounds almost like there is crinkly plastic under her skin. It doesn't seem to bother her one way or the other - but it's freaky! Do you have any idea what causes that? I keep on forgetting to ask the vet, and since it only lasts a couple of days, the crinkling is gone by the time she's back there.
 
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wasabipea

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I, too, am glad to hear you are having some good days together.  
I can certainly relate to making adjustments for a sick cat as you have done with the sofa. There comes a point when the best thing we can do is let it go, continue to show our love, and tell them it'll be okay. 
Thank you :)

That's what I'm trying to do, and on her bad days I try to tell her it's ok if she wants to go, she's such a little fighter - the little thing has fought for so long.

I'm happy she's making for some lap time again, she was very reclusive and not wanting to be touched or botherered for a while. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I'm seeing it as a good sign.

Day by day
 and the guessing game of "which food is going to grab your attention today?" game is always fun for all - lol.
 

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Yay! Curled up and sleeping next to each other is a start :)  I do wish Roni had another feline friend to keep her company, but that just didn't work out.

Roni has been sleeping with me occasionallysince Len passed, which she never really did. Len was the "sleep with mommy" cat. Roni was meowing during the other night, but not the yowls that were immediately after he was euthanized.

I'm ashamed to admit, I still have to take her in for fluids. I just can't do it :(  Probably if I had an extra set of hands, but just me... I'm scared of not getting a good enough grip and poking her muscle or thru the skin or myself or all of the above.

Her kidney numbers are good now, in the normal range - but I think the extra fluids help her feel better with the (possibile/probable) cancer. Hey, since Molly had thin skin like Roni... did you notice a "crinkling" sound 2-3 days after giving fluids (in the area that the fluids are administered, the shoulder area)? When I pet her there, and I try to keep a light touch in that area in case she is sore), it sounds almost like there is crinkly plastic under her skin. It doesn't seem to bother her one way or the other - but it's freaky! Do you have any idea what causes that? I keep on forgetting to ask the vet, and since it only lasts a couple of days, the crinkling is gone by the time she's back there.
Oh, I'm sorry-- I didn't want to make you feel bad asking about the fluids!  
  I was just wondering how it was going.  The main thing is she's getting them and they're making her feel better.  That is odd about the crinkling sound!  I can't say I noticed it with Molly.  
 

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I have had many cats put down with 2 shots-sedating and the final one and 2 young kittens who were done by heartstick.  ONLY thing I ever had happen was the vet missed the 2nd shot and it bubbled up but cat was already so sick and had a 1st sedating shot.  The cat made no fuss at all and the vet ran and got another ASAP.  Oddly I noticed it before the vet from my angle. Some were sicker then others but none ever fought much except the baby kitten who was a feral who had been run over at some point in the night and then my husband backed over him leaving for work.  That poor little one.  I never had any done at home.
 

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Her kidney numbers are good now, in the normal range - but I think the extra fluids help her feel better with the (possibile/probable) cancer. Hey, since Molly had thin skin like Roni... did you notice a "crinkling" sound 2-3 days after giving fluids (in the area that the fluids are administered, the shoulder area)? When I pet her there, and I try to keep a light touch in that area in case she is sore), it sounds almost like there is crinkly plastic under her skin. It doesn't seem to bother her one way or the other - but it's freaky! Do you have any idea what causes that? I keep on forgetting to ask the vet, and since it only lasts a couple of days, the crinkling is gone by the time she's back there.
The extra fluids have made a difference with my cat as well. I get the occasional crinkling feeling (not sound). I'm pretty sure it's an air bubble.

Glad you both are enjoying lap time.
 
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wasabipea

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Cocheezie, I was thinking it was air bubbles as well - I'll have to remember to ask the vet tech tonight when I take her in. I'll admit, the crinkling is unnerving.

We're actually having a good spell these days, her spirit is up and she's eating cat food and being loving again, hanging with me, lap time, purrs and sports bright eyes. Il'll take it is long as I can.

Oh betsygee, I know you weren't trying to make me feel bad, no worries - but I am disappointed in myself - I really wanted to be able to do it for her. But a lifelong fear of needles combined with lots of other things... Some things I can do. Some things I just can't. I have to accept it. But since she tolerates the trip well and it's not high stress, I'm just letting the pros handle it. In the long run I think it's easier on her. or at least a "wash".

catsallaround - so sad that you saw a euthanasia go bad. At least the first kitty was already sedated, so she probably wasn't aware. The poor little feral, well the big picture is that she is out of her pain, the most important part. From what I'm learning from others and hearing tales, it seems that euthanasias rarely go bad - then can and sometimes go very bad. I'm still leaning towards taking my chances and having the vet come to my house - and I hate to bring in money into it, but it will run me in the vicinity of $500, that's including disposing of her via private cremation (my yard to to small for burials.). I guess the reason I want it done at home is that she "knows" vet visits are for fluids, wham - bam - back home again. To take her there to end her life just seems like I'm tricking her, if that makes any sense. But the bills are adding up.

I guess I'mm wait another month or so, depending on her condition and get another blood panel done to see how quickly the white cells are building. I'd love to see them back to normal, just to watch my vet eat her words again. You'd think she would at least say hi when she sees me in the waiting room and give a brief inquiry "how's Cleo?" (that's her "real" name, but he nickname is Roni, and that's what she answers to).
 

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Keep in mind it was not normal but the cat did not suffer from that as he was so out.  The kitten that was the best way to go and it really was not bad just he was fighting from being held in first place.  That would not be done in most cases it was just due to size and dehydration they felt it would be the fastest and least stressful.  It sounded bad when they said it but really was no different far as how cat passed.

If you are open to group cremation you could look at local shelters fees.  One near me will do it for 25 for up to 25lbs.  I know the money sucks.  I currently have one cat sick who looks on way out who is being treated and not responding as only so far I can go.  

You may look into a tech visit either from the clinic or just in general who has refferences.  My friend does that-goes out and gives fluids, insulin, vet prescribed meds and clips nails.
 
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wasabipea

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Keep in mind it was not normal but the cat did not suffer from that as he was so out.  The kitten that was the best way to go and it really was not bad just he was fighting from being held in first place.  That would not be done in most cases it was just due to size and dehydration they felt it would be the fastest and least stressful.  It sounded bad when they said it but really was no different far as how cat passed.

If you are open to group cremation you could look at local shelters fees.  One near me will do it for 25 for up to 25lbs.  I know the money sucks.  I currently have one cat sick who looks on way out who is being treated and not responding as only so far I can go.

You may look into a tech visit either from the clinic or just in general who has refferences.  My friend does that-goes out and gives fluids, insulin, vet prescribed meds and clips nails.
I've thought of an at home fluids person. My vet charges me $20 per visit for approx 200ccs if I use their stuff. If I bring my own it's either $8 or $12 - I can't recall.

There is a vet that does at home services (the full monty, including euthanization) but she is far away and books up way in advance.  I'm sure her costs would be high. There is a woman that I have used to "cat-sit" if I have to business travel and she used to work as a vet tech, she may do it but the cost would likely be the same. The stress on the cat less of course. but then I wonder - she associated vets with getting fluids, and home with nice, home things. Do I want to stress her in the comfort of her home on a regular basis? She is a nervous kitty to begin with. I'll call my pet sitter and see what she charges, maybe she can even come by and walk me thru it a few times at home and I can get the hang of it there. Good idea, thanks - I hadn't considered that.

I hate it when money becomes an issue when you want to do the "right" things. I have thought of the group cremation, but want her ashes back - and her paw print. I can't find Len's paw print (he was my boy that was put down a couple of months ago). I know I tucked it "somewhere safe" where it wouldn't get broken, so I'm not freaking out yet... but I have to give the house the "real" search. I want to know where it is.

I can see a feral kitten being tough to put down calmly, just for the fact that ferals are, well... feral. I'm so sorrry to hear of your sick kitty and money getting in the way of furthering treatment. Do you mind if I ask what he/she was diagnised with?

I have a similar situation where the vets are speculating based solely on bloodwork / cell count (and symptoms, which haven't been that bad lately) that she has stomach/intestinal cancer. The least invasive way to closely confirm is an ultrasound to the tune of $550, but at 18 yrs, I wouldn't treat her anyway at this stage. But I "want" to know, even though in the long run it would just be a waste of money. I hear that stomach/intestinal cancer is somewhat rare in cats and I already lost one to that years ago. Odd that the chances happened again. Some of the physical symptoms were coinciding with grieving the loss of her companion cat, so they overlapped and I was taking them with a grain of salt knowing other issues were present.
 

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I understand about the home being safe/vet for the yucky things.  I so know what you mean by wanting to know even if you would not treat.  I have done BW on a sick cat I knew had no shot just cause I needed to know what it would show and also from having so many others if there was a way to prevent it.

Still look into shelters as some will do private too. I know one near me the cost is about double for euth with group vs euth with private.  But the private is what the regular vet charges for euth with group.  

My one cat has no diagnoses but justt treating for what it could be-infection or inflamation.  He seems more up today but still having vision issues.  And besides a cage there is no place to put him so I worry long term if he can not get it back he will get beat up for walking into the wrong cat.  Trying to stay calm and keep at his medicine.  I know nothing more I can do within budget.

I now am very comfortable with fluids but at start it was scary.  One of the first cats I gave fluids to was a baby kitten who was about 1 lb.  Oh my was I nervous.  I poked myself more with her then all the others combinded.  Trick I use is a cardboard box that has high sides to make it a bit secluded so cat does not tend to want to get up and wander off.

My main advice would be if you think cat is getting up just kink the hose or turn the thing off BEFORE otherwise kitty gets upset at being wet:) And if you poke yourself remember your hands are NOTHING like the area that get the fluids.  

I just had to give fluids to my favorite cat(shhh...I know)  when he was not eating due to sugar being to high and he actually purred and layed down on his own while doing his blinky eyes that he does when he is enjoying something.  I KNOW the first second he felt them he was upset as they HAVE to feel strange but within a few seconds he realized it was help.
 
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wasabipea

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I understand about the home being safe/vet for the yucky things.  I so know what you mean by wanting to know even if you would not treat.  I have done BW on a sick cat I knew had no shot just cause I needed to know what it would show and also from having so many others if there was a way to prevent it.

Still look into shelters as some will do private too. I know one near me the cost is about double for euth with group vs euth with private.  But the private is what the regular vet charges for euth with group.

My one cat has no diagnoses but justt treating for what it could be-infection or inflamation.  He seems more up today but still having vision issues.  And besides a cage there is no place to put him so I worry long term if he can not get it back he will get beat up for walking into the wrong cat.  Trying to stay calm and keep at his medicine.  I know nothing more I can do within budget.

I now am very comfortable with fluids but at start it was scary.  One of the first cats I gave fluids to was a baby kitten who was about 1 lb.  Oh my was I nervous.  I poked myself more with her then all the others combinded.  Trick I use is a cardboard box that has high sides to make it a bit secluded so cat does not tend to want to get up and wander off.

My main advice would be if you think cat is getting up just kink the hose or turn the thing off BEFORE otherwise kitty gets upset at being wet:) And if you poke yourself remember your hands are NOTHING like the area that get the fluids.

I just had to give fluids to my favorite cat(shhh...I know)  when he was not eating due to sugar being to high and he actually purred and layed down on his own while doing his blinky eyes that he does when he is enjoying something.  I KNOW the first second he felt them he was upset as they HAVE to feel strange but within a few seconds he realized it was help.
I've never heard of vision being affected by infection, my girlcat had battled a number of infections but none has ever affected her vision that I can recall, sometimes when she has a stubborn infections and had to go in for daily fluids, her balance id affected, but I attribute that to the fluids and her being so small (7.5 lbs). It really does suck when money does get in the way of treatment, such a helpless feeling. The vet has no ideas? Maybe it is an inner ear infection (just a guess of course) - could be throwing off her balance and vision?

I can't imagine having to adsminister fluids to a 1 lb kitten! Do you recall what guage needle you used? Seems most of the folks I've talked to on this site that do fluids at home use a 20 or 22 gauge needle which is smaler than the 18 that they use at my vets office, and they tried to teacj me with. It just looked so big I thought "how can this not be hurting her?" but she doesn't even flinch.

I'm starting to think that she knows the fluids help and if I were to start doing them at home, she's d cooperate since she has been down that road so many times. and I was thinking of putting her in a box with edges, as you suggested. I was even thinking of putting a heat lamp over it to warm the area and make it nicey nice. She's pretty smart for a cat, and if she connected the "fluids at home = no car ride" then she might be ok. It's just my squeamishness I have to get over. Funny you mention that blinky eye thing when they are content - My cat does that too.

I will look into shelters for the private cremation when the time comes. At the moment, except for litter box issues, you wouldn't even know she is sick. she's acting more or less like her old self.

Good luck with your sick kittie, so sorry money is standing in the way of her care. It seems so unfair. Will be sending healing vibes your way.
 
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wasabipea

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Excuse the back to back posts, but this was a totally different topic... the "crinkling" post-fluids - I asked the vet tech last night, he said he'd never heard of such a thing. when she was in the back getting juiced up, he asked the vet, she said she never heard of such a thing.


What?? It sounds like cellophane under her skin, happens all the time. Maybe when she comes back from her fluid administration shots, I'll try to rub the area more to "work in" the fluid. I can't imagine, the only thing I was guessing was air bubbles, but the tech said that no air really gets in there with the fluid, so he doubted that. It's the strangest thing. Even though it doesn't seem to bother her, it freaks me right out, it's so strange.

Guess I'm off to do some research.
 

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I've seen the occasional air bubble pass through the line even though there was no air bubble in the line when the needle went in. I check the line every time while the fluids are warming up.
 
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wasabipea

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I've Seen quite a bit about air bubbles and crinkling skin with sub q.
Also saw something about Some type of infection I've never heard of causing pockets filled with gas under the skin.
Her white cell count is high and she had two injections of Convenia antibiotic. That is why they gave her the stomach cancer diagnosis, because of a high white cells among other things.
I have to look more into this infection thatI was reading about and possibly mention something about it to my vet, maybe bring in a printout or something. Supposedly it responds well to Baytril. But maybe it's just me being paranoid, yet I feel like she's so over treating Roni and myself. I honestly get the feeling that she thinks I'm nuts for not putting her down by now.

There aren't too many vets in the area that are affordable, I really wish she hadn't made that bone headed statement a long time ago that changed my view of her.

It just seems that it if it is air bubbles in the line causing this, it's an awfully high percentage of the time that it happens.
 

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If it's gas gangrene you're thinking about, there's a distinct rotting smell associated with it.  I'm betting there's air in the line.
 
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wasabipea

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It wasn't gangrene, I'd remember that. I'll have to poke around online and get the name again. It was something I'd never heard of.

Funny because since I mentioned the crinking to the tech, who mentioned it to the vet, suddenly she's not crinking. they take her in the back room to do the fluids, so a lot of times I'm not with her so I don't see the lines, but I'm fairly sure they squirt some saline out before injecting her. Let me dig up the name of this thing I briefly saw. I didn't have the time to look too far into it, but the one vet will give me the internal eyeroll if I mention it, I'm sure. The other one, older and more professional - treats the clients as well as the animals, would take me seriously. Back in a few.

Edited to add: OK Peaches, yes you were right - the gas would be of the gangrene variety. If it was a gangrene gas under the surface of her skin, do you think I'd still notice the odor if the only break in the skin was from the needle? I do put my head very close to her body on a daily basis, and she smells like nothing but cat.

This is what I found, granted, it's from wikipedia but I didn't have a lot of time to search. Would giving fluids quailfy as a "surgical procedure"? If it were air in the lines, I could see it happening once in a while, but this is so common it happens almost every time she gets fluids. And I have a hard time believing the vet never heard of such a thing.

"In soft tissues, crepitus can be produced when gas is introduced into an area where it normally is not present.

The term can also be used when describing the sounds produced by lung conditions such as interstitial lung disease—these are also referred to as "rales". Crepitus is often loud enough to be heard by the human ear, although a stethoscope may be needed to detect instances caused by respiratory diseases.

In times of poor surgical practice, post-surgical complications involved anaerobic infection by Clostridium perfringens strains, which can cause gas gangrene in tissues, also giving rise to crepitus.

Subcutaneous crepitus (or surgical emphysema) is a crackling sound resulting from subcutaneous emphysema, or air trapped in the subcutaneous tissues."

I guess this wouldn't apply. I'm very discouraged that I don't feel comfortable with my vet to discuss this with her.
 
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My Wheezie and my Pooper have both had the crinkly cellophane noise. In both instances, it was caused by a small pocket of air trapped just under the skin. It goes away after a couple hours or maybe a day and is harmless, according to my vet. Wheezie got hers from a Sub q fluid administration and Pooper from an injury.
 
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wasabipea

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My Wheezie and my Pooper have both had the crinkly cellophane noise. In both instances, it was caused by a small pocket of air trapped just under the skin. It goes away after a couple hours or maybe a day and is harmless, according to my vet. Wheezie got hers from a Sub q fluid administration and Pooper from an injury.
When Wheezie got hers from fluids, did it happen frequently? I'm leaning towards it being harmless, since the cat has zero reaction when I pet her and she crinkles - but it's such a common occurance. and let's face it... it's weird, yes?
 

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Yeah, it really freaked me out! It sounds so weird. Wheezie only got it the one time and it didn't seem to bother her at all. She got the fluids at an ER vet and I took her into my regular vet the following morning because of the crinkly sound. She said not to worry, it happens sometimes. I worried anyway. :) (but she was fine)
 
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wasabipea

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It happens all the time with my cat, and I get her fluids done at the vets office!

But it doesn't seem to bother her, and they must have been more careful the other day after I mentioned it to them, because she wasn't crinkling last night.

I have to talk to them about the amount she's getting, it may be too much for a 7 lb cat. I notice the night she gets it done, before she has absorbed it all - it throws her balance off since the fluid seems to settle in her leg. And then the next day she sounds like an Easter basket. Bizarre, for sure.
 

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It wasn't gangrene, I'd remember that. I'll have to poke around online and get the name again. It was something I'd never heard of.

Funny because since I mentioned the crinking to the tech, who mentioned it to the vet, suddenly she's not crinking. they take her in the back room to do the fluids, so a lot of times I'm not with her so I don't see the lines, but I'm fairly sure they squirt some saline out before injecting her. Let me dig up the name of this thing I briefly saw. I didn't have the time to look too far into it, but the one vet will give me the internal eyeroll if I mention it, I'm sure. The other one, older and more professional - treats the clients as well as the animals, would take me seriously. Back in a few.

Edited to add: OK Peaches, yes you were right - the gas would be of the gangrene variety. If it was a gangrene gas under the surface of her skin, do you think I'd still notice the odor if the only break in the skin was from the needle? I do put my head very close to her body on a daily basis, and she smells like nothing but cat.

This is what I found, granted, it's from wikipedia but I didn't have a lot of time to search. Would giving fluids quailfy as a "surgical procedure"? If it were air in the lines, I could see it happening once in a while, but this is so common it happens almost every time she gets fluids. And I have a hard time believing the vet never heard of such a thing.

"In soft tissues, crepitus can be produced when gas is introduced into an area where it normally is not present.

The term can also be used when describing the sounds produced by lung conditions such as interstitial lung disease—these are also referred to as "rales". Crepitus is often loud enough to be heard by the human ear, although a stethoscope may be needed to detect instances caused by respiratory diseases.

In times of poor surgical practice, post-surgical complications involved anaerobic infection by Clostridium perfringens strains, which can cause gas gangrene in tissues, also giving rise to crepitus.

Subcutaneous crepitus (or surgical emphysema) is a crackling sound resulting from subcutaneous emphysema, or air trapped in the subcutaneous tissues."

I guess this wouldn't apply. I'm very discouraged that I don't feel comfortable with my vet to discuss this with her.
The smell of gas gangrene will just about knock a buzzard off a gut wagon, it's THAT bad.  You'd see oozing, a sore beginning to open...you'd know! 
  Subcutaneous emphysema, that's what you're hearing.  It's from gas in the line being deposited underneath the skin, and your kitty is a little compromised, so she's probably not absorbing the gas quite like a healthy kitty will.  In your case it is harmless for the most part.
 
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