Exactly. The OP asked for information here, but not in the store.
No one judged the OP, did they?
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Is it unhealthy??
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Lashing out? I am definitely not seeing this. I guess we read into things differently
It didn't come across to me that way, so I guess we read into things differently. I did not read "absolutely guarantee" or any variation thereof in this thread. I'm really not even sure why I'm seeing a certain level of defensiveness and lashing out here.You're taking my entire post like it was targeted at you, which it wasn't. I really don't understand. No one has berated you for feeding a small amount of dry. I used to do the same.
You expressed your thoughts and opinions and others have expressed there's. My purpose of mentioning all-dry was to express to the OP in general that that is usually the big concern that a lot of us agree on. I'm not even sure why I'm explaining myself.
Yes, my switch to no dry is recent. I am simply sharing my experience. Did this offend you, too? I'm glad you're kitties are doing well and especially that you got Max's constipation under control. Things changed pretty significantly when my kitties turned 13-14 years old. Old bodies can't handle things like they used to. A lot can change for a kitty in five years.
I wonder what the cause was, and if feeding canned helped.
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Do you really wonder/care, or are you trying to prove a point? My guess is the latter.
I asked a legitimate question. You claimed that your cats do not have IBS/IBD, that they are good drinkers, yet constipation was an issue. Why?
You have an interesting debate here about dry foods not being created equal and wet foods not being created equal, but neither are cats. I am always happy to read about elderly cats doing great on dry fod - but why don't we talk about the cause of that being the cat's body, and not the food? I mean, some cats are just healthier than others.
However, two of my cats don't hande well kibble. Sophie was free fed dry food for the first year of her life and she became so constipated she was pooping with blood. Harley had such a poor gi tract that he had constant diarrhea for months and no dry food worked. They are both doing great now on wet and raw. And then again, there's Amelie, who could probably thrive on whiskas and table scraps, as she is strong like that.
What I am saying is that we are all trying to do what is best for our cats, and trying to stay informed and weigh the pros and cons of each type of food are the first steps. But sometimes we should pay more attention to what our cats are trying to tell us.
However, two of my cats don't hande well kibble. Sophie was free fed dry food for the first year of her life and she became so constipated she was pooping with blood. Harley had such a poor gi tract that he had constant diarrhea for months and no dry food worked. They are both doing great now on wet and raw. And then again, there's Amelie, who could probably thrive on whiskas and table scraps, as she is strong like that.
What I am saying is that we are all trying to do what is best for our cats, and trying to stay informed and weigh the pros and cons of each type of food are the first steps. But sometimes we should pay more attention to what our cats are trying to tell us.
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That is precisely it, IrinaSak. Good points. No two cats are alike, and the requirements and tolerances for food will be different. We can debate dry versus wet versus raw until we are blue in the face, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to what a cat does well on. My little female Maggie would like nothing better than to eat NV Instinct Dry all day and probably be quite fine for some time, but I want her to have the benefits of meat. Cats need protein, preferable from wet canned or raw meat, and as we can't always be sure that there is adequate meat protein in dry food, its best to feed some wet canned or raw if this is well tolerated. This is one reason why I switched to feeding more wet canned. Plus, depending on the circumstances, wet canned is better for weight control.
Quite ironicly, Max used to do really well on Purina chow (this is what the shelter had him on), he was healthy and pooping everyday without fail. As I have always had the impression that Purina chow is a cheap form of kibble with not great ingredients, I thought we could do better for him and so I made the (slow) switch to a holistic food with more meat and no corn, wheat, but, this is where his problems with constipation began. He did well as far as pooping when he was on the Royal Canin High Fibre dry food that the vet insisted he be on, but the basis for this stuff is corn, wheat and soy, so basically back to square one. However, while his poops were great, he was always bloated and the food seemed to be going right through him. I could have left him on this, but I was not comfortable with the ingredients and in particular, the bloating, and knew we had to better. Today he gets the majority of wet canned, along with some probiotic and omega-3 support, but he also still gets a little bit of good quality dry. He is doing fine.
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To the original poster I think it completely depends on how well your cat does on the food you provide whether your reasons are purely like so many thinking of the nutritional basis or that you are simply going with what you can afford on a budget. Or a combination of the two like myself. My girl Lilly is a 13 month old domestic long haired tuxedo girl, Now when we adopted her from a family who constantly was allowing her dam to become pregnant (Lilly way 12-13 weeks at time of adoption and the mother was again heavily pregnant) she was fed on a type of kitten food vastly available in supermarkets here in the UK called KiteKat. Now I have never ever looked into what this food had in it and she was fed on both wet/dry. When we bought food for Lilly when we brought her home I couldn't find the brand in my nearest store (in hind sight I went to a pet store and this brand they did not stock). I didn't know how much better wet was at the time and I asked the assistant in the shop for a recommendation of what would be the closest in taste/texture to the kitekat and she recommended the stores own brand Advanced Nutrition (to make you aware the store was Pets at Home). Now I only bought a bag of dry kibble and left it at that I didn't buy any wet as it was all very over priced in that store. After a few months and Lilly subsequently breaking her leg we noticed she was a wee bit under weight (she'd always been a little on the skinny side disguised quite well by her vast amounts of fur). So we started buying in wet kitten food to (whiskas and felix) were the main brands again not the best but what we could afford at the time with a £700 vet bill to fix Lilly's leg. She started to put on a healthy weight at eating 3 pouches a day with kibble available around the clock. Lilly went off her kibble and eventually we started to feed her the wet exclusively (this got pricey).
Needless to say Lilly slowly went off the kibble she certainly prefers her wet over her dry food but fast forwarding to now where she is fully healed and a year old she is now on adult food. We couldn't afford to keep feeding her exclusive wet diet and in fairness she was picky about texture preferring either pate or big thick chunks she cant stand the smaller strips or chunks. So I now feed her supermarket bought wet single serve pate or chunk trays that I buy from Asda, Aldi or Lidl. These come in between 20p to 48p depending on the texture and store. Now she gets two of these trays morning and night and I have kibble sitting out all day never more than 15-20g approx. Though as shes going through a very active phase so I have been adding more of this than normal. I have been told in no uncertain circumstances that I am wrong by many a person both here on this site and indeed by people I know in my offline life. My brother feeds exclusive dry to his two cats whom are indoor/outdoor and they are both as fit as fiddles. Lilly also as well save her broken leg has never medically had anything wrong with her. My point is that you should simply follow your heart do some reading up on feline nutrition and ask other people what they feed and why but don't bend to people who tell you your way of doing it is wrong. Once you have an idea of what you want to feed and what you have to spend a month/week shop around for the very best foods that fit your budget. Then its just a matter of whether your cat likes the new food better than what you currently offer because at the end of the day you can provide the best possible food on the market but if the pet simply refuses to eat it then whats the point in buying it and wasting the money?
You have of course been offered some very good places to go and find information from but please make the decision based on you and your cat not the opinions of others.
Needless to say Lilly slowly went off the kibble she certainly prefers her wet over her dry food but fast forwarding to now where she is fully healed and a year old she is now on adult food. We couldn't afford to keep feeding her exclusive wet diet and in fairness she was picky about texture preferring either pate or big thick chunks she cant stand the smaller strips or chunks. So I now feed her supermarket bought wet single serve pate or chunk trays that I buy from Asda, Aldi or Lidl. These come in between 20p to 48p depending on the texture and store. Now she gets two of these trays morning and night and I have kibble sitting out all day never more than 15-20g approx. Though as shes going through a very active phase so I have been adding more of this than normal. I have been told in no uncertain circumstances that I am wrong by many a person both here on this site and indeed by people I know in my offline life. My brother feeds exclusive dry to his two cats whom are indoor/outdoor and they are both as fit as fiddles. Lilly also as well save her broken leg has never medically had anything wrong with her. My point is that you should simply follow your heart do some reading up on feline nutrition and ask other people what they feed and why but don't bend to people who tell you your way of doing it is wrong. Once you have an idea of what you want to feed and what you have to spend a month/week shop around for the very best foods that fit your budget. Then its just a matter of whether your cat likes the new food better than what you currently offer because at the end of the day you can provide the best possible food on the market but if the pet simply refuses to eat it then whats the point in buying it and wasting the money?
You have of course been offered some very good places to go and find information from but please make the decision based on you and your cat not the opinions of others.
That's possible, but I think most people were discussing the effects of dry kibble on a cat period.
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l can't find one single post that states that dry food is either evil or should be avoided at all costs.
The question was "ls dry food bad?"
Opinions ... go.
This is the point at which people give their DIFFERENT, INDIVIDUAL opinions.
l'm not sure why you're having a problem with me or anyone else having an opinion on dry food that differs from yours
The question was "ls dry food bad?"
Opinions ... go.
This is the point at which people give their DIFFERENT, INDIVIDUAL opinions.
l'm not sure why you're having a problem with me or anyone else having an opinion on dry food that differs from yours
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Quote:
Its called sarcasm Andrya .. I didn't see you or anyone else who has posted references from catinfo or elsewhere, say anything in support of dry food. So, it must be pretty bad according to your comments and the comments of some others. As for a difference of opinion, I don't have a problem with this, but people who feed raw don't tend to leave it at this. Why? Because they think their way is the only way.
l can't find one single post that states that dry food is either evil or should be avoided at all costs.
The question was "ls dry food bad?"
Opinions ... go.
This is the point at which people give their DIFFERENT, INDIVIDUAL opinions.
l'm not sure why you're having a problem with me or anyone else having an opinion on dry food that differs from yours
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Originally posted by peaches08 :
Just tracking back with some responses in blue
Yes a healthy intake of water helps to keep the bladder flushed. What has this got to do with dry food?
Dry food does not provide water.
Yes, dry food does not provide water. I have never said that it does? But by repeating the same references that Andrya posted, you are in effect saying that cats who consume dry food, must not be getting enough moisture. This may or may not be the case. Its your choice to subscribe to this thinking or theory, but I prefer to have an open mind and look at circumstances.
You are making the assumption that a cat who is consuming dry food, must automatically not be drinking water.
I did not make the assumption that cats fed dry kibble must automatically not be drinking water. I simply pointed out that cats in general do not have a strong thirst drive.
You don't come right out in saying, but your comments imply that cats who consume dry food must be water-depleted as cats in general do not have a strong thirst drive. Not necessarily the case.
All of my cats were very strong water drinkers when on an all-dry diet.
My cats were strong drinkers as well. Their urine went from sticky and dark on kibble, to not sticky and more straw colored on canned. The urine balls increased in size and decreased odor on raw. They still drink water...?
Well, between your cats and my cats, that's a few cats. I am willing to bet there are others out there.
They now get the majority of wet canned but still get a bit of dry.
Why do you feed canned now?
To provide my cats with more protein?
A common cause of UTIs is stress which has nothing to do with diet, or lack or water. While PH is an important tool for monitoring acidity of urine, it is not a guarantee that a cat does or doesn't have crystals. Furthermore, crystals can happen in any PH, but are favored in an alkaline urine.
I thought the common cause of UTI's was E coli? I also thought some crystals form regardless of pH...in any case both of these conditions can be greatly helped by WATER. Which dry kibble lacks.
Sometimes bacteria is found in conjunction with crystals, sometimes not, especially in the case of idiopathic cystitis. The cause of UTIs can be stress and in some cases diet. The result can be bacteria such as E Coli. Indicators of the possibility of the presence of crystals, is an alkaline urine so PH is a indication of a possible condition, not a cause.
This thread started out asking the question whether dry food is bad. In some cases, some of it is. In some circumstances it is acceptable. It just depends on what and how much.
I'd much rather most cats get Meow Mix dry kibble than starve to death. However, one of the things I see advised often is to rotate canned foods...wonder why we don't advise that about dry? Something about digestive issues?
I don't necessarily subscribe to the need to rotate proteins to the extent that some holistic vets suggest. This makes the assumption that all cats are prone to developing allergies, which is the basis for this advice. As cats don't like change in their environment, including changes in their food, I prefer to stick to a small rotation.
Just tracking back with some responses in blue
Yes a healthy intake of water helps to keep the bladder flushed. What has this got to do with dry food?
Dry food does not provide water.
Yes, dry food does not provide water. I have never said that it does? But by repeating the same references that Andrya posted, you are in effect saying that cats who consume dry food, must not be getting enough moisture. This may or may not be the case. Its your choice to subscribe to this thinking or theory, but I prefer to have an open mind and look at circumstances.
You are making the assumption that a cat who is consuming dry food, must automatically not be drinking water.
I did not make the assumption that cats fed dry kibble must automatically not be drinking water. I simply pointed out that cats in general do not have a strong thirst drive.
You don't come right out in saying, but your comments imply that cats who consume dry food must be water-depleted as cats in general do not have a strong thirst drive. Not necessarily the case.
All of my cats were very strong water drinkers when on an all-dry diet.
My cats were strong drinkers as well. Their urine went from sticky and dark on kibble, to not sticky and more straw colored on canned. The urine balls increased in size and decreased odor on raw. They still drink water...?
Well, between your cats and my cats, that's a few cats. I am willing to bet there are others out there.
They now get the majority of wet canned but still get a bit of dry.
Why do you feed canned now?
To provide my cats with more protein?
A common cause of UTIs is stress which has nothing to do with diet, or lack or water. While PH is an important tool for monitoring acidity of urine, it is not a guarantee that a cat does or doesn't have crystals. Furthermore, crystals can happen in any PH, but are favored in an alkaline urine.
I thought the common cause of UTI's was E coli? I also thought some crystals form regardless of pH...in any case both of these conditions can be greatly helped by WATER. Which dry kibble lacks.
Sometimes bacteria is found in conjunction with crystals, sometimes not, especially in the case of idiopathic cystitis. The cause of UTIs can be stress and in some cases diet. The result can be bacteria such as E Coli. Indicators of the possibility of the presence of crystals, is an alkaline urine so PH is a indication of a possible condition, not a cause.
This thread started out asking the question whether dry food is bad. In some cases, some of it is. In some circumstances it is acceptable. It just depends on what and how much.
I'd much rather most cats get Meow Mix dry kibble than starve to death. However, one of the things I see advised often is to rotate canned foods...wonder why we don't advise that about dry? Something about digestive issues?
I don't necessarily subscribe to the need to rotate proteins to the extent that some holistic vets suggest. This makes the assumption that all cats are prone to developing allergies, which is the basis for this advice. As cats don't like change in their environment, including changes in their food, I prefer to stick to a small rotation.
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Is a daily Snickers bar bad? For some it may not be. But in general, we do not advise to eat a Snickers daily for optimum human health. As Andrya said, the OP's question was "Is it bad?" and people answered with various reasons for and against it.OP did ask if dry is bad but the replies seem to revolve around the horrors of an all dry diet which isn't the case here...Unless OP buys wet food to eat themselves?
What does bacteria have to do with crystals? Or idiopathic cystitis? And IIRC, Max was put on canned due to dehydration/constipation caused by dry kibble. Not lack of protein.
Cats are desert animals that drink generally when they are already in a mild state of dehydration. This is a fact. Even humans tend to already be in a very mild state of dehydration by the time they get thirsty.
I have a cat with chronic cystitis. Now, I've had cystitis myself and it's awful. Plus the main treatment for it is to drink tons of water. She always did drink "enough" water but I guess it wasn't enough to keep her bladder flushed. I can't even give her a little kibble for a treat or she starts squatting everywhere. On canned/homecooked she does fine. So she must be consuming more water now, or something. I guess I don't have any scientific reasons but it works for her, LOL.
I think it's said that a cat needs to drink something like 1 cup of water just to "rehydrate" the kibble they eat, so they need to drink more than that to be properly hydrated. And that's a lot of water for a little kitty.
I think it's said that a cat needs to drink something like 1 cup of water just to "rehydrate" the kibble they eat, so they need to drink more than that to be properly hydrated. And that's a lot of water for a little kitty.
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Who's we? Are you are vet? Do you have a degree in nutrition? Some dry food is questionable, but equating all dry food to a snickers bar suggests that your knowledge of dry is limited to some things you have read. Training to become a nurse doesn't qualify you to call yourself an expert here, sorry. If this is your opinion, fine, let's just leave it at this.
Nothing necessarily. What was your point in saying the cause of UTIs is E Coli?
Who's 'Max' are you referring to? My Max? Really? You are going to tell me why my cat is on canned? Wow. Arrogance really knows no bounds. So if you think you know the reason, why did you ask earlier? Because you have a point to make. Its too bad you can't be more honest about this.
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No, I do not have a degree in nutrition. Do you? My degrees are in biology, chemistry, and nursing. However, I say "we" as a general statement.
I was referring to your thread about Max's IBD/IBS/constipation: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/270597/slippery-elm-bark-wet-food-managing-constipation. Hopefully he's still doing well with the plan you have going for him.
I do not feel that I have been dishonest.
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