Is it unhealthy??

[mservant]

What @AutumnRose74  is saying in her most recent post here is supported by articles here on TCS as well, with regard to the toxins in fish which are higher on the food chain.  There is also a significant concern feeding only food not specifically prepared for cats due to the lack of specific proteins such as taurine that cats need in high levels to remain healthy and prevent liver damage.  This is a similar issue to using some of the supplementary cat foods which were discussed earlier in this thread.  Many of the scary looking additives are the ones cats need.  

Reading a good range of information from different sources may seem like hard work and confusing but it does start to help with selecting the kind of cat food you want and can afford to feed once you get used to the common words used.  I'm not that good with arithmetic and following precise recipes so for me any home food preparation would not a great option even Mouse was able to eat non prescription food.  As it is he turns his nose up to any home cooked treats I offer him any way - seems my cooking is not to his liking! 

 

 

[marc999]

So, after reading through this discussion, I've decided to eat my bags of Orijen cat food rather than feed it to my cat.

It's not bad, could use a little salt and maybe some hot sauce, but not bad.

 

[pinkdagger]

lol! For some reason, I always assumed pet foods tended to the saltier side (to humans). It smells that way to me.

Orijen is a good food though - I have no problem supplementing some high quality kibble into my cats' diets as a treat. It certainly won't kill them. Kismet goes nuts when she sees me pick up the Kong to load it up with some kibble. She's spent after a 5-10 pieces, but even that makes her a happy kitty, and it sure beats filling it with junky treats like Temptations or what have you.

 

[mrsfpmister]

I understand your struggle! I did quite a bit of digging to find a balance of what was availble in my area, what I could afford, and what diet is the best long term option.
I originally fed mine a dry food diet with free feeding (scheduled times but I didn't take it from him if he didn't eat right away). He was a rescue and since he was severely under weight, I was also advised to offer wet food to help his digestion and encourage weight gain.
Problem was, my cat is a wet food addict! For a long time he would only eat dry food is there was a little mixed into his wet food! But at his healthy size, it was about 1.5 cans a day, and it was expensive :/ plus, I had heard about tooth issues and his... Bathroom habits were a little strong.
We switched to only dry again, but after having many problems with "food boredom" and other issues, I did some research and talked to my vet. We aimed to find a gentle diet that wasn't filled with crap fillers.
He hates lamb and duck, so it limits choices, but currently he eats .5 can of wet food and 3/4 cup dry (I mix some in and some is feely offered) a day. We feed him Science Diet now, and he seems to really enjoy it (and I think the different flavors of wet food keep him interested). His weight has fluctuated a little, but he is in his healthy range (14 low max of 15lbs). I am very lucky that aside from regulating his wet food (he would eat as many cans of wet as he could get!) he regulates his own dry food consumption, and seems to enjoy drinking water aside from just from food sources.

There is a lot of debate, so no one is "right" but there are some guide lines that many try to follow, while still making the best choice for them and their pets.

Also, I have noted many put down the "cheap" brands (we all know the names), and sometimes people have to accept that sudden or long-term money issues often come to play for owners who purchase these products...
I got scolded once for feeding a feral group (in my old hometown) Friskies as I was "trying to kill them". No, I was 15, trying to help a big group (I counted 16 regulars) so I bought a BIG bag of what I could afford, especially because I couldn't feed them individually or every day same time, so I was mass feeding and hoping everyone was getting enough. Luckily a rescue group came in and re-homed who they could, while spaying and regularly feeding the others.

Also, my kitty rarely gets treats, but his favorite are a soft "semi" moist green blend, and the soft centered crunchy outside cheap bag. I know the cheaper brand is pretty junk foody, but even my vet said if that's what he loves (and is a rare treat) then it is fine to let him have it for fun.

 

[autumnrose74]

Science Diet dry does have "crap fillers" though, and their claim that "chicken is the #1 ingredient" is negated by the the fact that, on a dry matter basis, it in fact falls down the list behind junk like wheat gluten, corn gluten meal and powdered cellulose. Both their dry and wet foods are way too high in carb content to be considered healthy.

They have very questionable business practices. A GOOD product sells itself. It doesn't require company reps going into vet schools and filling the students' heads with marketing gibberish passing as nutrition informations for cats and dogs, thus resulting in newly certified vets eager to be pimps for Hill's. They also assign someone the task of posting pre-written comments on Amazon reviews that give their products the lowest ratings. If you read long enough, you'll see that they use the same comments over and over again, so their comments don't specifically address the points in the review.

I would NEVER feed any Hill's products to my cat. Their "Ideal Balance" line is too little, too late and is their attempt to try to win back all of the pet owners who used to feed their foods before they knew any better.

 

[mrsfpmister]

But like I stated, there are many options and opinions out there. We all try to do what we believe is best for our pets, and we all have to balance what is availble in their area, price, etc as well.
I know that Science Hill is not liked by many pet owners, but so far my cat and I agree that this is the best nutrition (balanced with wet, healthy treats and play time!) he will eat & that also leaves money for vet bills, people food, and rent lol All the pesky things I wish didn't matter.
There are a few other brands availble in my area that I know are considered "too shelf" over Hill products (I've heard Blue Buffalo is very good). Many like feeding raw or homemade.

 

[autumnrose74]

^^^ Unfortunately, it is not an "opinion" that Hill's foods are unhealthy. Read what Drs. Lisa Pierson, Jean Hofve and Karen Becker et. al. have to say about species appropriate vs. non species appropriate feline diet and food ingredients, and then read the ingredients list of any Science Diet food, and then ask yourself if your cat is really going to thrive eating foods not properly formulated for obligate carnivores.

Domestication has not changed the necessity of feeding foods that take a cat's biology and nutritional needs into account.

 

[AbbysMom]

@Shatha
 I tend to agree with others replying to you here, as most dry foods are small and I believe research evidence indicates cats do not crunch on most dried foods but swallow it whole.  It does also tend to have high carbohydrate levels which might not be best for a cat's dietary needs.

 However I feed my cat an almost entirely dry diet which is prescription only and I am lucky that he loves to drink water.  If I deviate from this prescription diet for a day or more the consequences are immediately evident on my cat's teeth with yellow tartar and plaque build up, and red gum lines as a result of his health condition.  The reaction is the same whether it is alternative dry food or wet that he is fed.  I try to supplement his main diet with 'treat' foods such as sardine, freeze dried white fish snacks, and chicken although the intake of alternative foods can not be as high as I would like due to the reduction in effectiveness of the dental food.  I had detailed discussions with my vet to go over the relative risks to my cat's health current and long term based on the different methods of feeding and managing his oral health and he would be at far higher risk of serious illness and pain if I did not follow the prescription diet and daily enzyme tooth brushing  and fed  either raw or other commercially available foods.  

My cat is not obese and he has not yet developed any health  issues related to his diet, but his oral health is controlled well and not required veterinary attention for the past 2 years although his underlying health issues mean he remains at risk and his gums will often show some redness.  He is in excellent overall health and is not over weight (although I like to teaze him about being tuby when he sleeps a lot).

I suggest you take the information you have available to you, consider it in relation to your own resources and your own cat's health needs and then agree with your vet which option is best.

I understand this completely. Abby has food allergies and is on a prescription diet as well, Royal Canin. She gets both wet and dry and when she first was switched to it she refused to eat for a long time. It took a lot to finally get her switched over and eating it. If she gets a regular type treat that isn't considered limited ingredients, she will immediate start scratching herself bloody. She gets freeze-dried duck hearts as a treat. While this may not be considered an "ideal" diet to some, it is what works for Abby and that is what I am sticking to for now.

 

[ldg]

But like I stated, there are many options and opinions out there. We all try to do what we believe is best for our pets, and we all have to balance what is availble in their area, price, etc as well.
I know that Science Hill is not liked by many pet owners, but so far my cat and I agree that this is the best nutrition (balanced with wet, healthy treats and play time!) he will eat & that also leaves money for vet bills, people food, and rent lol All the pesky things I wish didn't matter.
There are a few other brands availble in my area that I know are considered "too shelf" over Hill products (I've heard Blue Buffalo is very good). Many like feeding raw or homemade.

While there are many options and opinions, and we all have to balance what is available vs what we can afford, in the end, cats are obligate carnivores. Someone really shouldn't need nutrition studies to understand that feeding them a diet that has the appropriate macronutrient content (being the one that mimics their evolutionary diet), with animal-based ingredients, is going to be best for their long term health.

As to the "what they will eat..." if someone adopted a 10 year old child that had only ever eaten dry cereal, would the adoptive parents say "that's all he'll eat." ? No. You get creative about introducing healthier foods. :dk:

Someone had to kill their kitty yesterday due to having diabetes and subsequent organ failure. They fed the prescription (dry) diet and used insulin under the care of their vet. In the end, the food they fed created the problem, and the "prescription" food they fed (which is a trademark, BTW, not a medical designation) did not help the problem. The food was toxic to this cat. IMO, that is not food.

I had three of my boys block, several repeatedly. I followed my vet's advice, and put all my cats on prescription c/d dry food. Cats, after all, hunt and naturally eat many small meals. 10 years later, the vet still recommends c/d, but only the wet food. The knowledge base has changed, and my cats are paying the price for having eaten grain-laden high carb dry food because I believed my vet knew what he was talking about when it came to nutrition.

 

[autumnrose74]

^^^Excellent post. I was lucky in that Dr. Pierson's website was only the second (behind cats.about.com) that I read when I was first looking into what getting and caring for a cat would entail. IMO this is research that all first-time owners, and even people who have owned cats before, should do. It is a lot easier to deal with issues when they come up if you have a game plan for them before they happen. Such as ... what food to feed. I started Shelly on the dry she had been fed at the Humane Society but, once I found that she does eat canned, the dry food was tossed out. When I can afford the Tasin grinder without making a serious dent in my finances, I am going to see if she will eat raw, preferably the Pierson diet. 

BTW, Mrs FP Mister, if you haven't read Dr. Lisa Pierson's website, I would suggest that you read it. She has nothing good to say about Science Diet, and besides being a vet with over 30 years in the profession, she has dealt with diet/health issues with one of her own cats, which is how that website came to be in the first place. The only food she will use is c/d, and then only pending a re-evaluation of the cat.

 

[peaches08]

 
When I can afford the Tasin grinder without making a serious dent in my finances, I am going to see if she will eat raw, preferably the Pierson diet. 

Why wait?  You can buy the supplements, make eggshell powder, and simply cut the meat into strips for now.  A blender or food processor will take care of the liver.  You can also just feed a day's worth of meals (2 meals if fed twice a day, 3 meals if 3 times a day) without balancing it.  Water packed sardines can be fed as a light snack now as well.

 

[ldg]

^^^Excellent post. I was lucky in that Dr. Pierson's website was only the second (behind cats.about.com) that I read when I was first looking into what getting and caring for a cat would entail.

When we started rescuing cats (2001), and brought the first feral rescues inside (2002), NONE of these websites existed. The Internet was just becoming a useful tool. Dr. P didn't start feeding her homemade food until 2004.

 

[roguethecat]

When I can afford the Tasin grinder without making a serious dent in my finances, I am going to see if she will eat raw, preferably the Pierson diet. 

actually, you don't need one. Far better to have the cats chew by themselves (see here).

When I started Rascal on raw, he didn't have the jaw muscles to eat a simple dried chicken heart treat that the Rogue inhales in seconds - now, I'm proud to say Rascal is able to chew again.

 

 

[pushylady]

This thread is now closed. The OP's original question has been thoroughly answered, and this conversation has veered off topic into a raw feeding promotion. As a reminder to our members, the proper forum for any discussion of raw feeding is Raw & Home-cooked Cat Food.