Redirected cat aggression in my two males

I hope everything went well last night.  I am glad Vinny is home and seems to be doing well.  Keep us posted.

Last night went well as far as Vinny being friendly and trusting of us. The only thing that is hard right now is that he has to be shut in a room for a few days and he doesn't understand. He wants out! He scratched at the door and cried all night. But he went to the bathroom a couple times, drank a lot of water, took his meds fine mushed into his food this AM. He ate very well, so that lead me to believe he's getting back to being comfy in our home. My boyfriend was worried that he hadn't peed this morning, but Vinny only in the afternoon yesterday and the vet tech said not to be surprised if he didn't go much in the first few days, but just keep the box clean so you can tell if he went at all. He seems to only want to use his regular litterbox and not the extra one I bought him, but whatever, as long as he isn't holding it.

I've decided the dosage of anxiety med was too high for him. I think it made him more restless than anything. If I need to use it again, I'm going to half the pill. He was trying to walk around, jump on the cat tree and jump on the bed on those things and kept kind of crumpling to the ground if he missed. It was funny/pitiful and I was concerned he'd hurt himself trying to jump onto the cat tree which is why higher than the bed, so it lead me to the conclusion that one whole pill is just too much for him, even if it is a low dose. He didn't end up sleeping much (and neither did I, ugh, I feel awful today), because he was very concerned with why the heck he was not allowed out the bedroom door.

I'm hoping he'll get some sleep while we're gone to work today. Leo was left in the guest room with NPR going. Vinny was left in the master bedroom with the tv on PBS so I think that should help them become very smart and cultured while we're gone :lol3:

I'll update everyone tonight if anything goes down, but the plan tonight is for me to bathe them both in the waterless shampoo and maybe comb them both with their brushes and lay a ball of fur in their rooms of each other's scent. Then on Wednesday, I might do the wipe down thing with a towel for each other them. Just a test. I don't think they will be ready to "eat" near each other behind a closed door until at least Thursday, but we'll see. It might be Friday.

Sounds like a great start!!  I don't know what kind or strength of anxiety meds you got, but I was giving Jake only 1/4 of a pill (about 2.5 mg acepromazine) at a time, just enough to 'take the edge off'.  It really didn't take much.  

It seems you've got a handle on it all.  Funny about getting Leo and Vinny cultured and smart while you're at work.  My cats aren't nearly as sophisticated, they watch 'I Love Lucy' reruns.     

Keeping my fingers crossed that all keeps going well !!    

I hope all is going well with Vinny and Leo.  Update when you get a chance!

Hi all,

Vinny's doing ok. I say ok because he's peeing (I'm checking in the morning and evening and I'm cleaning the litter box so I can see where the pee clumps are), and he's being friendly to us. We have not yet re-introduced him to Leo face to face yet because I just wanted Vinny to have a good weeks worth of antibiotics in his system before I introduce another stressor to him. 

We did get the diffusers, I guess I won't know until they meet face to face if that's working totally. 

The calming treats really did nothing,  but they are both pretty calm separated so I'm not worried about that.

I have the Jackson Galaxy Spirit Essence UR Fine for Vinny. We just started putting them on his dry food and dropping them on his fur last night.  I also have the stress one too.

Now I'm concerned a little about his pooping. It's be about a day since I noticed poop. I'm keeping tabs on that. I have given him more water in his wet food which he happily ate so I'm hoping that'll help, including the theraputic scoop of probiotics I put in his food. But I'm prepared to call the vet in the AM if I don't see a poop tonight when I get home from work. Constipation, I have been reading, can be either a stressor that leads to more URI issues or a complication of URI issues and since that's pretty much a bad thing either way you go, I want to check in on it. 

In the interim, if I sleep with Leo I've been dumping my night clothes in Vinny's room. And vice versa for Vinny. And I've been rubbing them each down with a clean dish rag and then switching it to the other cat and making them smell them and rub them with each other's scents. They aren't getting upset and hissing, but I used to come home smelling like other cats all the time after a book club meeting or animal sitting for friends and they never freaked out either so I'm not sure if that'll make a difference. But at least if it's scents they recognize when they do meet each other, I hope it will make a difference. I just can't tell right now since we've been waiting to get Vinny a week into his antibiotics. If I don't see a poop and have to take him to the vet again, I'm going to delay that more.

But otherwise, Vinny's personality is back to normal. So that's good. Leo's getting used to being in the other room too, so he's less pissed about it.

Now, I do have a question: since Vincent hasn't been out in the living room area yet, I was thinking maybe I'd need him to explore that area by himself with us before re-introducing him to Leo again so he feels confident in that part of the house again. Is that a good idea or doesn't matter? 

It sounds like everything is going well; hopefully he will get back to a normal pooping routine soon!   I think your idea of letting Vinny out into the living room on his own first is a good one, just to make sure he remembers everything and like you said, feels comfortable there.

How is Leo doing being shut in the other room?

Well, we let Vinny out. He did good except Leo stuck his paw under the door and kind of scared him, but he didn't hiss or anything just wanted to get away from the door. So I don't consider it bad. I only made him hang out for about 20 minutes and then he followed me back into the bedroom and I gave him a treat. Oh and he did poop finally. I'll push it a little more tomorrow.

Do we think that introducing them in a crate would be better than out in a room? I have two crates they could sit in.

It sounds like all is going really well.  You could definitely use the crates for introductions.  You could start with them both in crates, then let one out to sniff around.  If it gets too intense, cover the crate with the cat inside on 3 sides.  If all goes well, allow one cat out to sniff around and then switch.  If there is any hissing or growling, you might want to stop.

Glad to hear Vinny is doing well and feeling better.  Hopefully all will go smoothly this weekend.

I've been allowing Vincent to roam supervised in the living room. However this AM he ventured over to where Leo's room is. Once at Leo's door, he growled and then walked away. I didn't want him to feel afraid so I let him go back to the bedroom where he jumped on the bed and was chilled out, he was never aggressive toward me during this do perhaps this was normal non-recognition behavior for him after not having seen Leo in over a week. I've been transferring scents through clothes, pillows and towels but I don't think it's enough after hearing him growl. Maybe I should start something more dramatic, like a feeding behind a bedroom door.

It kind of made me sad to hear him growl but I guess I shouldn't have expected more. He is still healing and on antibiotics. I'm holding off on the crate intros until we see if the food thing goes ok.

Whitney723 said:

I've been allowing Vincent to roam supervised in the living room. However this AM he ventured over to where Leo's room is. Once at Leo's door, he growled and then walked away. I didn't want him to feel afraid so I let him go back to the bedroom where he jumped on the bed and was chilled out, he was never aggressive toward me during this do perhaps this was normal non-recognition behavior for him after not having seen Leo in over a week. I've been transferring scents through clothes, pillows and towels but I don't think it's enough after hearing him growl. Maybe I should start something more dramatic, like a feeding behind a bedroom door.

It kind of made me sad to hear him growl but I guess I shouldn't have expected more. He is still healing and on antibiotics. I'm holding off on the crate intros until we see if the food thing goes ok.

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Vinny probably still doesn't feel 100%.  The hissing may not mean that much--I have two siblings who are very close but sometimes act like they hate each other, hissing and swiping.  But 95% of the time, they are friends.  

I have 2 siblings and believe me, redirected aggression is real and in my 2 cats can last more than 24hrs after a vet visit. I live in a high rise building, so they do not see any other animals, but after a stressful event like a vet, my boy will attack, growl and hiss at my girl like he has never seen her before and she is his worst enemy.

Pretty much everything I have tried has not helped, except good old time. I usually just let them out and he instantly attcks her and run her into a corner and starts hissing like a mad man. she smells like a vet, and so does he, and he's mad over it.

I tried sprays, and vanilla behind ears, rubbing blankets, etc - nothing! Only thing that helps is feeding them together, giving it time and letting them be together.

Over next 12 hours, he will keep hissing and hissing, and then he will start licking her again as she calms down and stops thinking he wants to eat her :lol3: just like old time! One lick, one hiss, one lick, one hiss, it's adorable. She just bewildered, sitting there, looking at me, wth? She always calm and quiet, doesn't bother a soul. As she grooms herself, he grooms himself and they start to groom each other, vet smell goes away and they are best buddies again. They do everything together

Bathing them may not be a bad idea, but I think a re - intro and allowing them to be together and transfer scents is best. Eating together, using same litter boxes, grooming, sleeping together, that's the stuff.

I have used waterless shampoo on both cats the day after Vincent got home from the vet. I think the aggression was two fold: either Leo picked on Vinny because he "smelled" sick or one of them saw another animal out our front door side windows or their own reflection and it was redirected aggression. All I know is I heard the most blood curdling scream and once I separated them and got vinny behind a closed door, Leo kept running up to the front door. This happened once before with no fight between the cats, both were very upset by something near the front door the first time. But no fight. This time, there was a fight and because Vincent was freaking out at us and Leo we took him to the vet and he was diagnosed with a bladder infection and his bladder was so full. We also did blood work which came back fine.

They've been separated while vinnys still on antibiotics because I don't want him to get too stressed. I have the spirit essences too which I've been putting on Vinny only once or twice a day. I think I need to increase to in food too although I already have a pro biotic and a cranberry extract holistic powder I'm mixing in it, but what's a few drops?

I've got bully remedy for Leo but I might really need the peacemaker so I might buy that one.

We let Leo explore the living room and id like to let vinny out after a few hours to smell the scents (after I've sprayed the stress stuff around a little) but I'll decide after while if that's ok.

UPDATE: This morning we let Vinny venture out again. Leo was out in the living room yesterday night. We could tell Vinny was hesitant, but he came out ok. He continues to not want to go near Leo's door. My boyfriend coaxed him toward the door with treats, and he took them, but later this afternoon we tried his wet food and he got too distracted by Leo eating behind the door and wouldn't eat. Maybe just too fast for him.  Anyway, he did get scared and growled a little, then ran off. He hid beneath a chair, but I lifted the chair up and he came out, and I was able to pick him up without him getting upset with me and put him back in the bedroom. He was not aggressive toward me or my boyfriend the entire time, but he did display a lot of fear. No Halloween cat attitude, but still not really at a place where he's comfortable going near Leo's door. I  might try feeding Vinny behind his door and feeding Leo on the other side of it.  

In the meantime, we're continuing to allow them to roam the living room during structured times separately.  I've been brushing them both and plopping a ball of their hair in each other's spaces. Leo seems to be fine, it's just Vinny who is fearful. That's probably because of Leo picking on him.  I'm using the spirit essences more regularly, so I'm just backing off on the food thing for right now and letting Vinny get used to smelling Leo at least in a shared space for now. I don't want him to be afraid, but I doubt pushing things too much if he's afraid to even eat a meal at this point close to Leo's door is probably not a good idea. I feel like Vinny's been traumatized or something, I know that sounds silly, but I really do think he's afraid he'll get his butt kicked again or something.

You can still probably feed them on either side of the door, just move the food bowls back.  You may need to start with them 6ft or more from the door on either side.  Keep moving back until the growling/hissing stops.  Once they are ok with a certain spot, every few days move the bowls closer.  Some cats do just fine with the bowls super close but others need to start a far distance back. 

Keep swapping scents.  You can also take a wash cloth and rub it all over Vinny then place that washcloth under Leo's food bowl.  Do the same by wiping Leo down and putting the wash cloth under Vinny's food bowl.  You can do this either away from the door or in conjunction with the door feedings.

It's been 2 weeks and vinnys just now getting more comfortable in the house. He's been coming closer to Leo's door but not quite to it. I've been giving him treats when he does. However we had a minor set back today and it's partially due to my fault. I was doing laundry and I let him out to have the run of the living room while I had our laundry room open and he likes to jump up on the dryer to watch me. Well I scooped him up and carried him over to put lint from the lint trap into the garbage can which is in the kitchen. I have a great room so the kitchen and living room is all open, so I had to walk in front of the short hallway that Leo's door is in front of. I was carrying vinny and he heard Leo meow and then hissed and growled (I didn't even stop in front of the hallway I was just passing by it) and he jumped down and ran back into the bedroom and onto the bed.

Do you think this is a minor or major set back? He didn't act aggressive to me and his fur didn't spike up, especially once he was back in his safe place. I just feel bad that it happened when I was carrying him which is normally something he enjoys. This is a normal part of our routine and he usually is quite fine. I think it's possible he felt trapped by me holding him after smelling or hearing Leo in that moment. Normally when he hears Leo he isn't upset by it. Leo's even been meowing and playing outside his door and he's not acted upset.

I can't get Leo to eat outside vinnys door. He's too curious about why the door is closed and just won't focus on food. Right now vinny won't get close to Leo's door so I guess my best bet is to try feeding him in sight of but away from Leo's door.

Has anyone else's cats taken this long to reintroduce? I am trying to be patient but I'm worried I'm not speeding thing up fast enough but then this little set back happens and I feel like I was trying too hard.

Do you have a dog cage or large cat carrier you could use?  Since the cats seems stressed with the doors closed, you might try either a large dog cage or large cat carrier that you place one cat inside and cover it on 3 sides with a sheet.  I usually just leave the front door area uncovered.  Let the other cat out and allow them to sniff.  If possible reward with treats.  If there is hissing or growling, stop the interaction and try again.  If you don't have a cage or large carrier, you could try the screen door trick that I suggested before.  It will give them some face to face time.  You could place one cat in a room, attach the screen door and allow the cats to do their thing and see what happens. 

Reintroductions can take a very long time.  Have you tried any flower essences or calming treats?

I have a medium sized cat carrier. I was thinking of putting Leo inside it and letting Vincent be the one who sniffs him out because I didn't want to enclose vinny since he's the nervous one. I wanted to be able to give him the opportunity to run back into the bedroom for his safety place and not have Leo chase him so he could see hey I'm safe, the cats not going for me. I kind of feel like if he gains some confidence with that then maybe he won't act so nervous around Leo and Leo might not have a reason to run after him.

I have been scent swapping multiple ways. Swapping blankets they've slept on to their rooms, a wash cloth I've rubbed each down with I've placed under the opposite cat's food bowl and toys and scratching units. I've not swapped their rooms because I'm afraid vinny might freak out in Leo's room. I've also got a grooming glove that I've used on both cats and taken balls of their fur that's come off onto the glove to put in their rooms. Vincent reacts by rubbing friendly scent marking with his face on everything and he continues to eat fine even with the washcloth with Leo's scent under his bowl that I run on Leo and place under his bowl daily. Leo's even played with a fishing pole toy outside Vincent's door and he's watched under the crack and seemed excited like he wanted to be out playing too.

I bought the spirit essence line from Jackson galaxy, I've been using UR Fine and Stress Spray on Vincent and Bully Remedy on Leo. I just haven't been able to tell if they are really working because I have put the cats back together yet. The feliway a have seemed to work some, Leo's stopped spraying. I did clean his room with natures miracle including everything at "pee" spray level (baseboards, door frame, window seat) and i think that was good.

I'm thinking of buying a couple more of the spirit essences, peacemaker in particular.

Is there anything else I should try? Swapping rooms (even though that makes me nervous) or even litter boxes and food bowls?

Two weeks is not that long for this kind of thing.  There will be steps forward and steps back so please don't feel bad when there are little hiccups along the way.  You're really making an enormous effort here and you certainly aren't doing anything wrong!  

@ShadowsRescue  had a good idea about the crate introductions.  I don't know about swapping litter boxes.  Just a thought here--what if Vinny got scared or upset about Leo's litter box and then starts having problems using a litter box in general because he associates it with something 'scary'?  Especially since he's just getting healthy again after peeing issues.  

Instead of swapping rooms completely just allow Vinny to go into Leo's room for a bit.  If he uses the litter box in there, just clean it right away.  Then allow Leo into Vinny's room.  Just let them be there for a short time.  You might try to play with them while in the others room.  Offer treat reward too. 

I have tried the Peacemaker from Spirit essences and didn't find it helped much.  I do find that the Composure liquid Max works the best.  Vinny seems like he would benefit the most, but when I used it on my two I started with them both using it and then weaned the less aggressive cat off.  There also are the calming collars.

You are working so hard, but these things take time and lots and lots and lots of patience.  There will be set backs and spats along the way.  Just keep progressing forward and try really hard to keep yourself calm.  The cats will pick up on your angst and nervousness and wonder what is wrong.  Maybe you should have your boyfriend try and help out.  Sometimes a neutral person can have a greater impact.  I sometimes have my DH step in and work with the cats as I get very emotional.  He is very level headed and calm.  They usually settle down quickly for him!

Thank you for all the ideas! A little progress has been made this afternoon to make me think the little set back yesterday wasn't as big a deal as I though.

This afternoon I took a strip of old fleece that they both enjoyed playing with an stuck it under the door in vinnys room. Then we let Leo out. My bf played with Leo and every time he came near the door I would give vinny a treat so he had to dip his head down and see under the door. I know he knew Leo was there and he heard the bell on the toy and really got excited to play.

Next my bf got Leo to notice the strip of fleece and he started batting at it, pulling at it made vinny notice so he started batting at the piece of his side of the door. They started playing with the ends together, even sticking paws under the door. We just made sure they weren't staring each other down but they didn't seem to be. We tried to not hover but step in and give treats for positive reinforcement. There were no hissing, no growling just little purr like chirps from them which is typical of their play pre fight.

Then we just left them alone and we both noticed they were choosing to sit at the door next to each other but behind the door to each other without playing. Vinnys eyes were doing his little relaxed sleepy winks which I think is positive.

So I think we are doing ok after all. I may try to allow vinny and Leo in each other's rooms when my bf is playing video games in our media room. He can take the non roaming cat in there. It's a pretty neutral space that both cats only have access to when we are in there with them.