Cat pooping outside litterbox- spite?

kait27 · Oct 27, 2013

6 month old neutered kitten had an issue with pooping on the floor outside of his litterbox about two months ago. We added a second litter box in the same room and the problem was taken care of, until very recently. The kitten is very food-driven, and tries to eat the dog food when we feed the dog. All along we've had to lock him in the cellar (finished family room with his bed, toys, food, water, etc, and a half-bath/laundry room with his litterboxes.) while the dog is eating so the dog gets all her food. We've recently begun noticing that when we close the cat downstairs, he craps on the floor (within 1-2 ft of his clean litterboxes). He's generally only down there about 15 minutes, and does it in that time. He sleeps in the basement as well, and never has had an issue over night- only when he knows he's being kept away from the dog food. We've even tried feeding him at the same time, but by the time you put his food down, close the door, come up stairs and put the dog food down, he's already wolfed all his food. (We know he's not starving, he's actually over weight.)

We tried moving his litter box to the spot where he kept pooping on the floor, and tonight, he pooped where the litterbox used to be. I always use a bleach spray to clean the tiled floor. (Fantastik or the like.)

Can cats actually poop out of spite on demand like that? I've heard of cats being upset and spraying, but very luckily all his peeing habits are fine. He's done it four or five times in a week now.

mani · Oct 28, 2013

I've never heard of a cat doing this out of spite.. but it seems that the fact that he's missing out on food and being put in a room is the reason he does it.

Have you tried feeding the dog in a private room instead of locking the cat away?

procat · Oct 28, 2013

Cats will poop outside the box for a variety of reasons, but I would not put spite on that list.

Have you changed litter brands lately? Scented litters or changes in texture will throw some cats off.

Are you changing the litter often enough? Some cat's don't like to poop in the box if it smells too much.

Think porta-potties... something you don't like to poop in, right?

Is the litter box big enough? The box should be 1.5 times the length of the cat.

Litter depth can be an issue too. 2-3 inches works for me, but some cats may like more/less.

Is the litter box in a quiet place away from sight? If not, give him some peace and quiet to do his thing.

Has the kitten been declawed? Declawing is very painful and may make some cats reluctant to use their paws to bury their business.

One other thing... and this just happened to me the other day:

I was walking into the room when our cat was going into the box. I startled her, she jumped and hit her face hard on the edge cover of the litter box. It hurt her enough to make me feel terrible and her to have to shake it off and rub her paws on her face.

Point is, it was a traumatic experience for her so she apparently decided it was time to poop outside the box for a couple of days, until the stupid human moved the litter box to a less stressful place. I doubt cats do things out of spite, but they will definitely do (or not do) things out of fear.

Just a few suggestions. Good luck!

kait27 · Oct 28, 2013

ProCat said:
Cats will poop outside the box for a variety of reasons, but I would not put spite on that list.

Have you changed litter brands lately? Scented litters or changes in texture will throw some cats off.

No, we've been using the same litter for several months,

Are you changing the litter often enough? Some cat's don't like to poop in the box if it smells too much.

Think porta-potties... something you don't like to poop in, right?

It has clumping litter and my husband scoops it every other day. There's hardly any poop in it at all because he does most of it on the floor.

Is the litter box big enough? The box should be 1.5 times the length of the cat.

Litter depth can be an issue too. 2-3 inches works for me, but some cats may like more/less.

It is a large covered box, I don't believe they come much bigger, and he is only 6 months old, so I doubt size is an issue.

Is the litter box in a quiet place away from sight? If not, give him some peace and quiet to do his thing.

In the cellar, in the laundry room. He craps on the floor next to the litterbox so the room itself is not the issue.

Has the kitten been declawed? Declawing is very painful and may make some cats reluctant to use their paws to bury their business.

No
He has never had a traumatic experience. I could come home from work tonight and find he crapped in the box. He chooses when he doesn't want to, and only does it when he is closed in the cellar when we feed the dog. Like I said in the OP, he had an issue with protesting having one box, we got two, and it immediately solved the problem for several months. When that was the issue, he would poop on the floor whenever he had to poop- overnight, during the day while we're at work, or in the evenings. Now, it is strictly limited to the 15 minute window when the dog is being fed.

kait27 · Oct 28, 2013

Also, I'd like to add, I've read that if the cat wants to go in a particular spot, put the box there. So I did that. Last night, he crapped in the spot where the box USED to be. (We're talking an area of maybe 6-8 sq ft, total.)

procat · Oct 28, 2013

Kait27 said:

I know (for a fact) that I'll be picking up poop from the floor if I don't scoop out the litterbox at least once every day... and I get about three weeks before I have do do a full change and clean. My cat usually uses the box 4-5 times a day, and if I can smell it, I know it's probably overpowering to her.

Anyway... have you tried locking the cat someplace other than the basement?

kait27 · Oct 28, 2013

He has crapped on the floor when the box has been cleaned very recently- less than 24 hours. He had taken to pooping in one, and peeing in the other, and when he's pooping on the floor, the poop litterbox stays clean.

We considered closing him in the basement, but only in the family room room, and closing the door to the laundry room where the litter boxes are. The only upstairs rooms that have doors are the bedrooms (he's only allowed in the master bedroom, the other doors stay shut for safety/heating reasons). I've seen him attack my shower curtain, so I'd rather not have angry cat in the bathroom.

The thing is, if he is absolutely going to crap on the floor, the laundry room tiled floor is ideal- it's also a half-bath so we just grab the poop with some TP and flush it, then I either use a clorox wipe or some Fantastic and wipe up the area.

That's also why it wouldn't be ideal to try to contain the dog to feed her- she's a traveling eater, and if I closed her in the bedroom, she'd take each piece of food onto the bed to eat. She's also terrified of bathrooms and has some separation fears.

di and bob · Oct 28, 2013

SOMETHING is wrong with the box or the litter, cats don't go on the floor because of meanness or spite. I'd change the litter a couple of times and then change the box. Some cats WILL NOT go in a covered box, get a tupperware clear one with taller sides this keeps the litter in, I've seen cats suddenly avoid a covered box after using it for months, I think they got ambushed or at least they thought they might get ambushed in something they couldn't see out of. I've got 3 different kinds of litterboxes and they definitely prefer the tall clear one. As for cleaning the litterbox, how do you explain going into a house and seeing an overflowing box that obviously hasn't been cleaned for weeks, but the poor cat keeps going in the box!? I always felt so sorry for the cat!

kait27 · Oct 28, 2013

The box has to be covered to keep the dog out. Simon (cat) uses both boxes for both purposes.

Let me give you another example of how I know it is ONLY when being locked up because the dog is eating: During the day while we're both at work, the dog stays at my mother's. (Dog & I both lived there prior to my getting married this year.) Once or twice a week, if I am running late from work, my mother will feed the dog. I'll pick her up, head home, and start supper. This is the time I would normally feed the dog and lock up the cat. Because the dog already ate, I leave them be and go about my business. No crap on the floor.

Once a week I take a craft class. I go right from work, leaving the dog at my mothers, where she gets fed. My husband gets his own supper, and the dog and I don't get home til about 9. No crap on the floor.

I guarantee if I feed the dog elsewhere tonight, there will be a normal cat poop in the iitter box because I didn't lock the cat up. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time believing me. He ONLY craps on the floor when he's closed in the basement when the dog is eating. He is EXTREMELY food motivated and will do ANYTHING to get something to eat, despite having a saggy-swingy-belly and being fed plenty twice a day. (We tried free feeding. See "saggy swingy belly.") He went for a well-kitten check at the vet 6 weeks ago and is healthy- including stool test.

I'm not sure what you mean about a house with an overflowing litterbox... Mine is never over flowing, only a day or two's worth of crap in it. But I suppose, as in humans, there are some cats who are neat-freaks and some cats who are happy to continue to live amongst their own crap?

procat · Oct 28, 2013

Kait27 said:
The box has to be covered to keep the dog out. Simon (cat) uses both boxes for both purposes.

Let me give you another example of how I know it is ONLY when being locked up because the dog is eating: During the day while we're both at work, the dog stays at my mother's. (Dog & I both lived there prior to my getting married this year.) Once or twice a week, if I am running late from work, my mother will feed the dog. I'll pick her up, head home, and start supper. This is the time I would normally feed the dog and lock up the cat. Because the dog already ate, I leave them be and go about my business. No crap on the floor.

Once a week I take a craft class. I go right from work, leaving the dog at my mothers, where she gets fed. My husband gets his own supper, and the dog and I don't get home til about 9. No crap on the floor.

I guarantee if I feed the dog elsewhere tonight, there will be a normal cat poop in the iitter box because I didn't lock the cat up. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time believing me. He ONLY craps on the floor when he's closed in the basement when the dog is eating. He is EXTREMELY food motivated and will do ANYTHING to get something to eat, despite having a saggy-swingy-belly and being fed plenty twice a day. (We tried free feeding. See "saggy swingy belly.") He went for a well-kitten check at the vet 6 weeks ago and is healthy- including stool test.

I'm not sure what you mean about a house with an overflowing litterbox... Mine is never over flowing, only a day or two's worth of crap in it. But I suppose, as in humans, there are some cats who are neat-freaks and some cats who are happy to continue to live amongst their own crap?

Think like a cat.

1. Cats tend to be "routine" creatures.

2. Cats don't like the smell of their own poop. (Technically, it's instinctual to hide it, but you know what I mean.)

You've established a routine of locking the cat up when you feed the dog. The cat poops on the floor, you come along and clean it up... smell and all!

... and Mr. Meowsalot didn't even have to get his feet dirty in the kitty litter.

That's why I asked if you've tried putting the cat in a different room. Break the routine.

kait27 · Oct 28, 2013

You think he craps on the floor because he wants it cleaned up quicker?

mani · Oct 28, 2013

Kait27 said:
You think he craps on the floor because he wants it cleaned up quicker?

I don't even think a cat would go that far . And I don't think cats worry about getting their feet dirty in the litter - it's in their nature to want to cover poo up.

But some cats won't poo in a box that has been used.

The logical thing is to feed the dog in a separate room.. I know that's not ideal, but it may be the way to approach it.. If the dog has finished in 15 minutes, could you stay in the room while he/she eats?

I do get it, though - that stops the issue but doesn't solve the problem.

Have you tried two cat litters? I know it's a stretch, but at a certain age my cat stopped weeing where she poo-ed. It took me ages to realise that she wanted a box for each. I know it's unlikely as Simon is doing this in such a deliberate manner, but it may just be the thing that tips the scales for him.

I honestly don't know what else to suggest, except a cat behaviourist..

And I've just realised that you've had two boxes... so there goes that theory!

procat · Oct 29, 2013

Kait27 said:
You think he craps on the floor because he wants it cleaned up quicker?

No... I was exaggerating a bit there.

My honest guess is that the situation is causing stress/anxiety and he's habitually acting out on that.

Is Simon a clingy kitten?

ritz · Oct 29, 2013

The only thing I can think of is to change the cleaner--I noticed you said you used "Fantastik".
Have you tried something specifically for cat pee/poop like Nature's Miracle This link is to the hard floor version; frankly, I don't know if there is a difference between the hard floor version and the regular version.

kait27 · Nov 11, 2013

No, I've used bleach based cleaners or Lysol wipes- they help to combat the odor and its a clean I am more comfortable with. He's still at it, but now more randomly. Not alway while being locked up. His litter boxes are very clean- scooped every day and when he's not pooping in them, one is barely touched! We tried replacing the litter in one box with unscented, didn't help. I've tried placing the box where he poops and found poop where the litterbox used to be! There is almost always some poop in the box at least every couple days, so he isn't exclusively crapping on the floor.

kait27 · Nov 11, 2013

ProCat said:
My honest guess is that the situation is causing stress/anxiety and he's habitually acting out on that.
Is Simon a clingy kitten?

No, he's not stressed or anxious and I wouldn't call him clingy. He's pretty normal. We work full time and he's happy to see us, but he'll go off on his own and sleep in other room by myself and what not.

MoochNNoodles · Nov 11, 2013

Kait27 said:
No, I've used bleach based cleaners or Lysol wipes- they help to combat the odor and its a clean I am more comfortable with. He's still at it, but now more randomly. Not alway while being locked up. His litter boxes are very clean- scooped every day and when he's not pooping in them, one is barely touched! We tried replacing the litter in one box with unscented, didn't help. I've tried placing the box where he poops and found poop where the litterbox used to be! There is almost always some poop in the box at least every couple days, so he isn't exclusively crapping on the floor.

I have heard that bleach based cleaners can attract some cats to spots because of the ammonia in them; which smells like urine to them and can attract them back to the same spot to go again.

snowkat · Nov 12, 2013

I've noticed my cat taking a poop in the shower after i dye my hair at home. he is attracted to the ammonia in the dye and i will have to use an enzyme cleaner to treat the area so he does not do it again. that could be a reason why he might be pooping in the spot outside the litter box.

another reason might be because he is marking his territory using his poop. i've had that happen to me while i was fostering a cat and my cat went crazy and started peeing and pooping on any place he could.
http://www.catexpert.co.uk/cats/fel...aying-in-the-house-or-even-pooing-on-the-bed/

cats usually don't poop where they eat so you could try feeding him in the place where the poops happen for a while.

hope that helps!

kait27 · Nov 12, 2013

MoochNNoodles said:
I have heard that bleach based cleaners can attract some cats to spots because of the ammonia in them; which smells like urine to them and can attract them back to the same spot to go again. :slant:

Ummm you know that there is no ammonia in bleach right? That's a deadly toxic combination. You might want to google that, it's kind of an important thing to know...

ondine · Nov 12, 2013

Let's start over. ProCat said something earlier that made sense:

I doubt cats do things out of spite, but they will definitely do (or not do) things out of fear.

You mentioned that the cat was food-motivated. Could it be that he's afraid that by being locked up, he won't get fed? After all, the dog is eating!

I may have missed it but have you tried feeding the cat just a bit of food while he's locked up? He may not go to his feeder (if there is one) because the dog's food seems to be what he's after. Maybe you can break one of the dog kibbles into pieces and give him that and see if that helps. It doesn't have to last forever, just long enough to help figure this out.

Good luck - and thank you for your patience!

Cat pooping outside litterbox- spite?

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