Digestive Enzymes

I'm getting down to the last servings of digestive enzymes in my bottle. I'm not sure if they're doing any good and wondered if other members had brands that they felt delivered results? I'm using Dr. Goodpet with the main goal of reducing constipation.

Is your kitty still having constipation issues?

Yes. I'm giving her Miralax and we've just started B12 and a supplement that contains l-carnitine, COQ10, and l-taurine. Her gut is slow, we are trying to increase metabolism through the COQ10 and l-carnitine.

This may seem weird, and I don't understand it. But Spooky had constipation issues ever since we started raw. I assume it's that she's very sensitive to the amount of calcium in the diet, but I tried adding fiber (pumpkin) for a while, and that did help. But she hates it. So I kept looking for other ways to help - and did use miralax for a while.

When Ming Loy developed pancreatitis back in June, I started adding Prozyme Original digestive enzymes for everyone. Spooky was eating mostly canned at the time, but I started making more of her food raw, and she didn't reject it. Within a week or so, she was back to 100% raw - and I was using no fiber. Since putting her on the Prozyme digestive enzymes, she has not had any problems with constipation. :dk:

Take a look at the ingredients - see if there's a difference?

Also, when you say increase her metabolism... is it "just" metabolism or is motility potentially a part of the problem? You might want to chat with your vet about choline. Well - specifically acetylcholine. Egg yolks are the food highest in choline (as is beef liver): acetylcholine is a component of that. In the peripheral nervous system, acetylcholine activates muscles, and is a major neurotransmitter in the autonomic nervous system (the enteric nervous system is one of the main divisions of the autonomic nervous system). Feeding egg yolks increases gastric motility - which is why many of us use them to prevent hairballs.

LDG said:

This may seem weird, and I don't understand it. But Spooky had constipation issues ever since we started raw. I assume it's that she's very sensitive to the amount of calcium in the diet, but I tried adding fiber (pumpkin) for a while, and that did help. But she hates it. So I kept looking for other ways to help - and did use miralax for a while.

When Ming Loy developed pancreatitis back in June, I started adding Prozyme Original digestive enzymes for everyone. Spooky was eating mostly canned at the time, but I started making more of her food raw, and she didn't reject it. Within a week or so, she was back to 100% raw - and I was using no fiber. Since putting her on the Prozyme digestive enzymes, she has not had any problems with constipation.

Take a look at the ingredients - see if there's a difference?

Also, when you say increase her metabolism... is it "just" metabolism or is motility potentially a part of the problem? You might want to chat with your vet about choline. Well - specifically acetylcholine. Egg yolks are the food highest in choline (as is beef liver): acetylcholine is a component of that. In the peripheral nervous system, acetylcholine activates muscles, and is a major neurotransmitter in the autonomic nervous system (the enteric nervous system is one of the main divisions of the autonomic nervous system). Feeding egg yolks increases gastric motility - which is why many of us use them to prevent hairballs.

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I think that metabolism and motility might be involved. Her ultrasound report did say there was diminished motility. But she also gains weight extremely easily.

I had heard about choline and tried to feed some eggs before, but Poppy did not like them. Is the beef liver a comparable source? She does like liver, and since I'm going to see if she's allergic to chicken I was thinking of buying her some beef liver to eat instead of the chicken liver she currently has. I know that cisapride's mechanism has something to do with acetylcholine.

I'll check out the Prozymes. I've been thinking about the digestive enzymes. Lately Poppy's stool has a greenish shade, which likely means nutrient malabsorption, so that would indicate the current brand isn't doing a very good job.

Thanks, Laurie!

Has she been tested for pancreatic insufficiency? The prescription digestive enzymes are different than non-scrip.

And is she receiving B-12 shots?

As to the egg, have you tried mixing 1/4 yolk at a time into her wet food? Most of my cats hate it (boiled, scrambled, or raw), so I hide 1/4 of a yolk at a time in a meal.

No pancreas tests, unless they come out as part of a complete blood test.

She just started B12, got her second injection yesterday.

Haven't mixed the egg into the meals. I had been doing hard boiled, but then had to coat it in Fortiflora. I want to stop feeding her chicken at mid-month, though, to see if there's an allergy. Interesting that most of yours hate eggs. How much egg are you giving per week to each cat?

They each get one yolk a week. It's fed in 1/4 yolk increments, 4x a week. Every other week or so, I offer them 1/2 a yolk in a bowl, mixed with water and topped with whatever favorite thing. Some eat all of it, some eat most of it, Lazlo will usually take a few licks of it and he's done. :lol3:

The test for pancreatic insufficiency is a separate test, not part of normal blood work. It's rather rare, but does happen.

See what happens with the B-12, check if there's a difference in the digestive enzymes you were using, and consider trying Prozyme. Mercola also has one - but it takes a fair amount of it, and my cats hated it. Prozyme takes VERY little.

If those don't solve the green poop issue, I'd be talking to the vet about the pancreatic insufficiency test.

Thanks, LDG!

I took a look at the pancreatic insufficiency symptoms, they don't sound like Poppy at all. Weight loss, no. She's gained a half pound over the last year. Hungry all the time, no. We're having mild appetite problems. Hoping the B12 helps out a lot. It sounds like it addresses a lot of Poppy's issues. Right before she went to the vet last she had one bowel movement in 24 hours, an improvement after spending the past couple months having 2-day movements. After the vet visit and the B12 and supplements she's been picking up the pace a little, every 1.5 days for a bowel movement on average with an occasional 1-day or 2-day movement. Yesterday she got her second injection and we think she went in 24 hours (I was at work and husband was not paying attention, did not look in box when he heard her scratching )  Poop still green, though.

Yeah, weight gain is not a symptom! :lol3:

Well, I hope the B-12 keeps improving things, because something is off there.

Reading about this pancreatic insufficiency test is helpful for me to know, too, as I figured perhaps Sebastian should get this test done (just in case). But he doesn't seem to have any of the symptoms either.

Hmm....green poo.    I think you've been trying some different things with Poppy, correct? Are you keeping a journal? Perhaps something new is not quite agreeing with her. 

GoHolistic said:

 
Reading about this pancreatic insufficiency test is helpful for me to know, too, as I figured perhaps Sebastian should get this test done (just in case). But he doesn't seem to have any of the symptoms either.

Hmm....green poo. 

  I think you've been trying some different things with Poppy, correct? Are you keeping a journal? Perhaps something new is not quite agreeing with her. 

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Yes, I've been trying different things, so hopefully the green poo just means her digestive system isn't what it used to be and can't adapt as quickly. Next week I'm feeding her food with carrageenan, so there'll be much more variety to choose from and maybe I can find more food that she likes. The problem now is that she doesn't like a lot of the new food and I end up experimenting to see if she'll eat X or Y.

Raintyger, I just found this looking for something else. Thought I'd post it, just because with EPI, weight loss can be a symptom, but doesn't have to be.

http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/digestive/c_ct_exocrine_pancreatic_insufficiency#.UlnrtBDOQrk

It describes the tests for it.

How's she doing?

Thanks for thinking of Poppy, LDG!

Well, it still seems like Poppy doesn't have symptoms of pancreas disease other than malabsorption. Constipation instead of diarrhea, no weight loss (although I see not necessarily present per article), and no coprophagia. Stool volume I don't know since I don't know how much other cats on a canned diet produce. Poppy does go in towards the end of the month to discuss results of B12 injections, so if the green poo isn't gone, I'll bring it up.

I'm crossing my fingers, knocking on wood, etc., because Poppy seems to be doing somewhat better. She's been licking my face at 2 or 3 a.m., hoping I'll get out of bed and feed her breakfast or a snack. She's also come and sat with me in my moon chair hoping for a snack. After the first B12 injection she's kept up a bowel movement schedule of every 1-1.5 days, whereas previously it was 1.5-2 days.

That's good that she doesn't have any of the other symptoms. And I'm glad to hear she's doing better! 

Update:

I had a little scare the other day. Poppy, for the first time this month, did not go and it was 2.5 days since the last bowel movement. When I got home I started preparing dinner. I gave her some vitamins wrapped up in a pill pocket and started preparing her cat food. Then she vomitted! About 1 tsp. stomach juice, colored like the vitamin. I called the vet, 20 minutes before closing. They said to only feed her a little bit if she was hungry, but bring her in the next morning.

The next morning she finally had a bowel movement before her vet visit. I kept the appointment anyway as I had something scheduled on Sun. to discuss the results of the meds/supplements she is currently on. Since there was fresh poop, I took that as a sample. Vet said that she was not backed up, and her colon felt "not bad." He said he was OK with the color of the stool, too (although he did not say anything like it "fine.").

I also brought samples of the digestive enzymes I had been using and some that I switched to recently. He advised me on which one to use and dosing (instructions on the bottle are confusing). Poppy had another bowel movement this a.m., and I am wondering in a separate thread if the digestive enzymes are working.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/266807/digestive-enzymes-how-fast-do-results-show

So hopefully the 3-day movement was a fluke, maybe due to feeding her a higher carb food by accident (see my thread on Merrick Duck Pate), and the B12 and supplements are helping. Assuming nothing bad happens, I go see the vet again in 3 months for another ultrasound.

Oh no! We don't need a scare! There's already too many scares going on around here! 

In my experience, cats can vomit if there are backed up just from being uncomfortable or crampy, so let's hope that's all it was.      Also, if Poppy drank a little less water during that time period, that may have set things back a bit. Or, like you said, it could have been the higher carb food. 

Tons of for Poppy! And lots of    for you! 

Hopefully links are allowed on this forum

http://shop.mercola.com/catalog/digestive-enzymes,90,0.htm

http://www.enzymediane.com/

http://www.jefferspet.com/davis-multizymes/camid/PET/cp/0040857/cn/110191/

http://www.herbsmithinc.com/Home/Canine/Microflora/default.asp

I never liked Prozyme because they contain lactose. If you choose that one make sure its the one without it. My dog has done wonders on Dr Goodpet I am very happy using the dog one on him. When picking one you have to remember some are plant based some are animal based.

I always used Prozyme and my cats do really well with it. In fact, Lucky used to be quite urpy and throw up from time to time, and by making sure all meals have Prozyme seem to have stopped her from throwing up. It's been quote a while since she vomited. I use the original formula.
I had done some research a while back, and remember reading that plant based enzymes work better than animal based enzymes. Remember: the cats are not using/metabolizing the enzymes - the enzymes are digesting the food itself... So the fact that they are obligate carnivores are not an issue here. :nod:

Enzyme deficiency is an issue within the pancreas. It only makes complete sense to use animal based enzymes for carnivores and plant based for herbivores. I only use plant based because its all I could find locally.