IBD cats or food allergy need food advice

Hi

The back story is this: London my male cat 2 years ago was very overweight & was having issues with his poop, so I changed his diet from Friskas (I know terrible) to Wellness and Almo Chicken, where he dropped alot of weight. He had been doing okay with Wellness Chicken for awhile than he started to poop around the house, it became a daily issue so finally I brought in the vet.

The vet examined him and took some blood and nothing for a hyperthyroid etc...But gave him a round of steroids and antibotics because he was showing small traces of blood in his poop. After a round of the meds, I honestly so difference in his loose stools or the pooping around the house issue. I also did not see a difference in his stool which was just flat basically and very light in colour.  I was adding a probiotic but that was only making him go more than 2x a time so I stopped giving it to him (he is very sensitve to any food changes)

He was on the vet prescribed food Medi Cal Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Food, currently I have been blending in the Nature Variety Duck Formula. His stool the first couple days was forming a bit but now back to loose or soft stool, when he flares up he tends to do the pooping around the house. I am slowly managing the pooping because now he just meows at me when he has to go, not ideal I know but it works.

However, now this is what is happening he goes to use the litter box on his own in the am. I don't even know he went but at night it is this big production meaning he constantly meows for food at night or pooping.I am trying to keep the blending process at a small pace and I end up feeing a bunch of small meals throughout the day.

I realize there is a bit of behavioural issues in there as well but my main concern really is the loose stools. The vet is throwing a whole bunch of ideas at me including more steroids which cannot be the only option.

Does anyone else have any ideas on how to combat this?

I'm a little confused as to what exactly he's eating right now.  Natures Variety Duck (is this one of the "Limited" varieties?), blended with Royal Canin Hypoallergenic?  Are they both canned, or is one canned and one kibble, or are they both kibble?  And with the Wellness Chicken, even though he started to poop around the house (perhaps behavioral?), did the poop remain solid? 

I honestly don't understand how giving him a probiotic could be BAD for him.  What kind of probiotic were you giving him?  Many of us here use probiotics for our cats, and I've never heard of anyone having any adverse reactions...quite the opposite!  I'm just wondering how many probiotic strains were in what you were giving him...for instance, I believe FortiFlora only has ONE strain.

Once we have these answers, it'll be easier to try to help you and London, although it seems you DO have a little behavioral issue on your hands (although we probably all do, in one way or another ,  I know I certainly do with my little furries )

Hello to person who's cat may have IBD or food allergies.

Both cause very similar signs in cats so it is difficult to know right off the start. I would recommend that you go to a Holistic vet in your area. Look up at the American Holistic vets website.

I am a specialist in Alternative Vet Med and behavior. Usually behavior does not cause diarrhea all over the house. Long term bowel problems can cause cats behavior to change and they need to be retrained to use the litter box. But don't start until after the cause of the diarrhea has been solved.

For true allergies to food I use either Purina's HA or Science diet's Z/D, both contain hydrolized soy proteins and have no supplements made from meat sources. Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Food has some proteins from meat from the mineral, vitamin mixture added to the foods. I start with one of these diets just to narrow the diagnosis to food responsive diarrhea (new name for allergy to food). There is a benefit of this same diet to cats with IBD but takes a week or two. True allergies improve in 1-2 days. Then allow the cat to stay on the diet for at least 3 weeks so that the GI can heal and quiet down the irritation. The next step is to find which proteins, fats and carbs the cat can eat without a reaction. Commercial foods constantly change the sources of their materials and foreigh proteins not listed on the label are common. So Evo or Wellness do not work for allergies. For IBD both Evo or Wellness have been helpful,  however over 9 months ago the company that makes these foods was bought by Pillsburry and I've noticed a slow change of ingredients to lower quality. With cats as sich as your I use homemade food. Not as hard as it sounds and not expensive. But you must use a balanced recipe. It is all too common that cats develop disease from homemade recipe not are  miscalculated. This happened last year to Blue Buffalo brand when they overdosed their cat food with Vit D and made many cats ill and some died. Again start with a Holistic vet  who has had some excellent success indicating they know nutrition as well as GI disease. Unfortunately their is no one simple answer to chronic Gut disease in our pets. So many causes of GI diseases in cats is why one treatment works for one but not the next cat.

Best of luck.

The food I recommend to prevent disease is made by an online catalog; Drsfostersmith.com.  I do not get anything for recommending their food.

Was the probiotic you were using Flortiflora? In some kitties, it can have the opposite reaction, and make problems worse. A number of us use a human probiotic (an acidophilus + bifidus supplement by Natural Factors with 10 billion CFU - live colony forming units, NOT the fermentation products found in most pet probtioics). This will not cause increased pooping.

I think you posted in the raw forum - are you feeding the canned duck or the raw duck?

If your kitty has IBD and/or allergies, I'd seriously consider a raw diet if you can afford it. Nature's Variety is not overly expensive to use, and inside of a couple of weeks you'd know if it's helping or not..... There wouldn't be a lot for your vet to complain about. It's a commercial product that meets AAFCO nutritional guidelines, and is a sterile product, as it is treated with high pressure processing (a type of pasteurization) - so no risk of bacteria. :dk:

i can attest that Fortiflora does make things worse for my kitty. She had a great poop yesterday-gave her a tiny bit of fortiflora and 12 hours later-pudding. So I guess it depends on the cat?

OD of a probiotic can cause the runs, at least initially. Learned that one the hard way. Used Bene-Bac, only half what the directions said to give. I cut back and the diarrhea went away.
 

Hi

London has had examines, blood work and fecal exam, vaccines and nothing is coming up.

Originally, he was on the chicken wellness canned, he was pooping out of litter box, the stools were soft. It is interesting to read that the company was bought out only 9 months ago, and my cat was starting to poop on occasion outside the litter box starting in the summmer time. I thought that something had happen to the company but I wasn't sure because it was out of the blue

I believe I was OD my cat on the probiotic formula as well, now I am putting a smidge in his am feeding.

Is Science Diet the same as Hills? The vet food was never working for him so I am wondering if I should buy another vet food as they are filled with fillers.

I am overwhelmed with all the possiblities of food allergies and what to look for and various raw food companies I should try etc...                                                                                                                                 

It is part behavioral now as in the process of re-training him to use the litter box he knows he will get food. So now he goes even a smidge of a poop because he wants food, this is a very smart cat I have.

where did you hear that wellness was bought 9 months ago or so?

The information that EVO and Wellness are owned by Pillsbury are incorrect. Pillsbury is a brand of General Mills corporation, which hasn't made pet food since the 1960s.

EVO is produced by Natura, which was bought by Proctor & Gamble in May 2010: http://news.pg.com/press-release/pg-corporate-announcements/pg-acquires-natura-pet-products

Berwind, an investment company, has owned Wellness since 2008. http://www.examiner.com/article/wellpet-unveils-20-million-dog-food-processing-plant-expansion

And yes, Science Diet is the consumer brand produced by Hill's. It's Hill's Science Diet. It is owned by Colgate-Palmolive Corporation.

Okay

I am now using Plant Enzymes and Probiotics powder, very small amount daily. The fortiflora I know is just crap and decided to stop using it altogether.

It is combo of a spoiled cat & behavioral and a little IBD rolled into one.

To combat the pooping by my room (which only started because I brought in a mobile vet who took some blood from him in my room which he did not like at all) i put a litter box by my room. I have 2 cats who majority of the time tolerate each other but not necessarily like each other, so his own litter box may or may not help in this issue. He is also a chronic meower, he meows for food, he meows for attention, he meows cuz he has to poop, he has to pee and to combat that I have resorted to locking him in the litter room for 2-5 minutes (so far, once I do that he is quiet afterwards)

Yesterday, he was left with my dad for roughly 5 hours or so, my dad said not even a meow or a stir he actually didn't know where they were. Which told me one thing, behavioural lol

He doesn't poop all over the house, in fact the only time it does happen is when he gets a flare up (has to go more than once at a time). So that is a good thing.

They are both on canned & since I put them on the Royal canin vet food I never noticed a difference other than he was hungry all the time. I have been steadily weaning them off the Vet food onto nature Variety Duck Formula Canned, it was a litter hairy at first. Lots of adjusting in the last few days but I am decreasing RC and watching and waiting and for the most part it seems to agree with him better than the vet food did. 

Once I get them on the vet formula I am going to introduce the raw bits again.

I'm so glad things are going better! And that sounds like a good plan.

Added a couple raw nature variety nibbles to his food today, we will see what happens.

I was having some similar problems with my Bella.  She had runny stool after we brought her home from humane society in mid-October, and was scratching incessantly.  We tried several things, including the vet prescribed Royal Canin HP for two months.  Her IBS did not improve, but the scratching subsided.  Last week, after two months on the RC HP and doing a lot of research, I decided to try Blue Buffalo Basics Turkey and Potato.  Within 2 days she was makin' logs!  I've taken her off of the HP and returned it to my vet for a refund.  Bella has seem to overcome the diarrhea issue with this new food - SO great!  However there may be some other allergens for my girl in this changed diet, as she has been scratching a lot again, which is often a reaction to a food allergy.  I'm going to continue with this Blue Buffalo for up to two weeks (it's been one now), then try something similar to see if the skin issues stop.

The RC HP's main protein is soy - NO MEAT.  Soy is one of the things, along with wheat & corn, that cats are often allergic to (Beef and Fish also fall into that category).  Actually, I really think that she is allergic to chicken too, as that's what we were feeding her prior to the RC HP.   Hope this helps!

So on Day 3 raw nibbles in the am.

They are both off the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Food officially yeah! and Only eating the Nature Variety Duck Formula Canned.

The frequency of poops have decreased for both of them. She still has hard little poopettes, his is in between loose and soft (but he is using litter more and more, thank god)

One step at a time towards raw

He had his 2nd negative reaction in 2 weeks, dripping poop and throw up a couple of times. It has happened when I added more raw nibbles to his food, anymore than 2 and it seems to cause a reaction in him.

The Nature Variety Raw Nibbles, I heard has a high bone content, so I am looking for an alternative brand

Well, in another thread you mentioned he was having solid stools ( http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249931/new-to-raw-feeding-and-have-questions/150#post_3299426 ) - at what amount of raw was he OK, and how much was added that made him have diarrhea? And how long had he been eating the raw nibbles? Which protein are you using for the nibbles - duck? And that's the same protein as the canned food you're feeding him?

Carolina has a kitty that simply could not tolerate ground bone, period. She found a raw food, Rad Cat, that uses bone meal, not ground bone. This worked wonders for her bone-intolerant kitty AND her IBD kitty, Bugsy. You might want to look into a local distributor of Rad Cat, or consider ordering some from http://www.onlynaturalpet.com if you can't find a local distributor. They do not have duck, just chicken, lamb, and turkey. But FYI, Carolina's Bugsy was intolerant of chicken in a canned food, but did just fine with Rad Cat. This is often the case. http://www.radfood.com/products

When it comes to IBD and raw, the problem can be the bone, not that the food isn't cooked/highly processed.

London gets literally 2 raw Duck NV little nibbles blended into his NV canned duck formula in the am. Yesterday I added 2.5 nibbles (such a tiny amount more) and it was not pleasant, it was dripping out of him everywhere and he threw up a couple of times as well.

It is strange because since the last similiar flare up (last tuesday) he was fine with the 2 raw nibbles only in the am. But once I try to increase it to more it doesn't go over well with him. The stools were hard little nuggets (maybe that is too much for him)

The interesting part is that between last tuesday and yesterday he still got 2 raw nibbles in the am and he was doing really well, so I am puzzled as to the flare up! Either the additional .5 nibble didn't agree with him or he got into something he shouldn't have (both are very likely)

Today I just gave him NV canned formula (no raw nibbles) and he had 2 normal soft to medium stools with smidges of blood in it. But they were formed stools which has been a huge improvement for him.

I am not ruling out raw but maybe something with a lower bone content, rad cat does not look like its available in Canada. I need to be able to access the food on a regular basis because I have 2 so they go thru food quite quickly. Any suggestions would be helpful....

thank you

I'm so sorry, I forgot you were in Canada. Honestly, it might be best if you make your own raw, without bones. You can use eggshells as the source of calcium to see if the amount of bone has been the problem... though with that small amount of food, it's not likely there's enough of it to be the source of the issue.

Is he on prednisone?

You might not be aware - but hard little nuggets IS normal poop, especially when on raw. Kitty is supposed to have to push a little to pass stool (this helps keep their anal glands happy). If he's in and out of the box trying to go, that's different. But people with IBD kitties are especially not used to what normal poop and pooping is like.

No  I am not putting him back on steroids, as I found it to be completely ineffective. As well as the Vet prescribed food that I paid a small fortune for.

It has been trial and error with him, as always.

He is a hunter and tends to go threw garbage, picks up whatever crumbies are on the ground, munches on plants if he can. So also thinking maybe just maybe he got into something that he shouldn't have. I did pull the nibbles from yesterdays feeding just to see what will happen, pretty much nothing happened, literally lol.

Will try the nibbles again maybe just one or two.

Well I know that plant problem. :lol3: Our Sheldon goes crazy for anything green, so we simply have no plants in the house anymore - ever. :lol3:

It does sound like maybe he got into something...

I hope you saw my comments about what normal stool looks like, because it sounds like he was actually on track for a little while there. :nod:

Continued vibes for London.