New to raw feeding and have questions!

Uh oh.....

Kitty had a bit of diarrhea tonight.

I hope it is just the Offal that she ate yesterday. Today all she ate was NV Chicken and a little NV Rabbit. She is on a two week antibiotic injection though, so I don't know if that is what is causing the problem.

Of course being still new to the raw feeding thing, sometimes the whole fear of salmonella and e-coli and parasites do cross my mind. I really hope that the latter is unlikely because that is the last thing I need right now.

I get worried because the Carnivora is not HPP but it is a great quality food, and Kitty loves it. I will continue to feed it to her because I like that it is whole prey. Do you guys think it is either the combination of the Offal and antibiotics? If a kitty does have diarrhea after eating a new meat, does it usually pass right away, or does it take a few days? I hope things go back to normal in the next day or two.....

It's probably the new protein, and the antibiotics..... Just make sure to give her the proteins she is used to eating already, and keep her on a good probiotics. Take a step back and re-introduce the offal slowly....
A "diarrhea" because of a new protein should get better really quickly (a day or so). If it is because of the antibiotics it can take a bit longer, since this is a long acting one.....
I always got a one day soft stool when introducing new proteins to Bugsy too quickly, but no biggie at all....

Carolina said:

It's probably the new protein, and the antibiotics..... Just make sure to give her the proteins she is used to eating already, and keep her on a good probiotics. Take a step back and re-introduce the offal slowly....
A "diarrhea" because of a new protein should get better really quickly (a day or so). If it is because of the antibiotics it can take a bit longer, since this is a long acting one.....
I always got a one day soft stool when introducing new proteins to Bugsy too quickly, but no biggie at all....

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Thank-you Carolina,

I might have started the Offal to quick. Last night she passed a much larger than her normal stool and it was quite soft but still formed. Then today I fed her her usual diet of NV brand raw, and tonight she passed a somewhat soft and partial runny stool.

I figure I will start over with just feeding the NV and Carnivora chicken and the NV lamb since she had no issues with that. Maybe it could also be the fact that the Offal is beef. I hear some cats can't handle beef to well, so maybe I will just wait till the stool resolves and she is off the antibiotics to try it again. I really hope the stool resolves in a day or two, as I'd hate to have gone a step backwards on the poop o' meter!

So far aside of this set back, things have been going very well. I just hope that we can go back to our wonderful raw diet poops!

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the antibiotics are not causing the GI upset, and I even bumped her probiotics up from her usual 4 billion CFU to 6 Billion CFU today. I only have the 2 billion CFU capsules right now and she has been getting 2 of those a day since starting the raw diet. But I suppose it can't hurt to give her an extra one now that she is on the antibiotic. Once we are out of the probiotics she is on I will move onto the 10 billion CFU.

Poor kitty, the last thing she needs it a poopy butt, she can't groom all that well with that bubble around her neck!

Momma comes running behind to give kitty a nice hair cut after a yucky poop. I am looking forward to seeing better results soon....

Ok, so I have a new weird thing to report....

Last night kitty started to drink water, something I never see her do. This morning I woke up to hear her in the litter box. I went to check things out and she and noticed a tiny piece of somewhat soft stool in the pan. Then she went back and sat at her water bowl. She had a drink, then followed me for breakfast. Her appetite was normal, she ate all of her meal. Then 5 mins went by and she was back at her water bowl looking at it. Then, she went and sat in her litter box.

I am not sure if this is at all a normal thing for a cat, but it certainly is not normal for her. She still seems happy and alert but all this thirst makes me wonder what is going on. Any ideas?? Could it be the antibiotics? Or is she ill? I will be contacting the vet to be on the safe side.....

The drinking and hovering over the water bowl does not sound normal. I'm glad you are calling the vet.

Kitty

otto said:

The drinking and hovering over the water bowl does not sound normal. I'm glad you are calling the vet.

Kitty

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Thank-you for the

It always seems like if it's not one thing it is another for me and Kitty.

I did get in touch with the vet though, and I explained the symptoms (thirst/soft stool) and also informed her that I did try to introduce the offal, but since yesterday she has not had any offal. Anyway, the vet said that the symptoms could likely be related to the antibiotic she is on.

She said if this behavior continues after the next 2 days to bring her down for a check-up.

I poked around a bit and asked what antibiotic injection was given, and I was told it was Clavaseptin (Clavamox).... I guess that explains the diarrhea/soft stools. I did not know that the antibiotic could make her so thirsty though.

I couldn't find any links with any information about this drug that had thirst as a side affect, but of course diarrhea is on the list. So I suppose I will watch and wait for the next 2 days, I sure hope it will pass. She seems happy, alert, playful when tempted and still has a healthy appetite. The thirst thing though made me very concerned. Now that I have talked to the vet I feel a little better, but I sure hope that it is only the medication causing the issue and not something else...

If anyone has any information on this drug, I would love to read up on it. I can't seem to find anything useful at the moment.

Well, diarrhea is dehydrating so I could see how it could increase thirst. But I understand your worry. Excessive thirst and water bowl hovering is never something we want to see in a cat.

Could you add a little water to her meals? See if that halts the drinking cycle. If she is still water bowl hovering after adding water to her meals, then I would be really concerned.

We got the pathologist report.

Well it turns out that Kitty did in fact have squamous cell carcinoma.

The vet said that she took a good portion away at the back of her ear, but at the front, she was cutting it close. She said that further surgery would require the muscle being cut out and that is not something I am going to do to my cat. She also agrees that quality is more important than quantity.

She said that there is around a 50/50 chance that it may or may not return. So fingers crossed that it won't, but we will just take things one step at a time.

I also again addressed the water drinking issue with her, and she said sometimes (20%) of cats do have the thirst side effect. She also said that Kitty may have this issue till the medication wears off by the 14th which is 8 days from now. She said if the thirst thing does not get better then she will investigate the cause after the drug is done its course. She also said the meds could likely be causing the diarrhea, which is something I already knew.

I did mention that I was a little paranoid about salmonella and what not and she also said if that were the case then the cat would be vomiting having explosive diarrhea and be drinking a lot. Of course that does not seem to be going on as she is only going to the box 1x a day so far and no vomit is present. I just have a cat that seems a bit more on the thirsty side.

So I suppose the news was good and bad, but not a shock as I already suspected the worse. I am very glad that we took care of it as best we could though, and I really hope for the better half of the 50/50 to be cancer free. At least now I know and I can be prepared for the future should it ever return. The good news though is at least for now Kitty is cancer free that we know of, on the outside anyway. Hope that she is good on the inside too, but again we just take things day by day.

Awww --not the news you wanted, but at least it's not all bad.  It's so good you took her in so she has a better chance now . I send her a hug!     Will keep   for the better 50!

Oh shoot - I did not want this news!!!!! :rub: I agree with Krysta - she is one very lucky kitty, and you're an angel! :heart2:

I'll keep up the vibes that the surgery did the trick, and her cancer will NOT return!!!! But WOW - I am so glad you've got her on raw! That is the best diet for her for sure. It's called "the cancer fighting diet." There are no studies or scientific "proof," only logical theories based in some kind of science, but some have linked cancer in cats and dogs to high levels of carbs in the diet (not as the cause, if I recall correctly, but as "feeding" the cancer). So hopefully this will go a long way to keeping her cancer-free!

Kitty has recovered form her diarrhea incident, it only seemed to last a few days and went back to normal.

I was worried because she was only passing mucus and a streak of blood. That is new for her the blood thing so I was kind of concerned. It only happened one time, but then it resolved by the next day. She finally had a normal poop this morning.

She was quite playful last night, running around like a crazy lady and following me around to the kitchen for a snack.

She even got comfortable on my bed after I made it up and looked quite content.

She hasn't slept in the bed since we moved in, so it was nice to snuggle with her last night.

I picked her up some NV duck bites while I was out yesterday. She really seemed to like it. I did only give her a little so I didn't upset her belly though.

This morning she was hungry like she always is first thing, but I noticed she seemed a little "off" I figure this could be because of the meds she is on maybe. Or that she has issues I can't see on the outside that makes her feel yucky sometimes.

She ate her breakfast then pretty much went to bed. I always let her sleep it off, and she usually comes around. Hopefully she will feel better later.

On another note, the vet was in contact with the octologist (not sure how to spell that), she informed me that the specialist told her that as much as she has a clean area of cancer free tissue right now, the vet was cutting it real close and that it would have been more ideal to have cut away more of the tissue. That would have meant cutting away her eye and all.

The specialist said that because it was so close to the infected tissue that there is a good chance of relapse. She said she sees it happen sometimes 3 months to 3 years after removal of the damaged tissue in cases like Kitty's. So I had to ask what are my options for Kitty in the event that this does relapse, the vet said that chemotherapy drugs in this case is not effective, and chemotherapy radiation is not really suggested because of the upset it can cause to her GI and burns to her face. But there is a cream that is being used that has a 60% chance to shrink and remove any new growth, and I am willing to try that if we have another relapse.

I hope things will get better, Kitty is actually my first cat and it has been quite the experience! I am glad I took her in though as much as she is costing me a small fortune, she is worth it!

I have learned quite a lot from Kitty, and I am so glad that we met on that cold winter day a few years ago. It was like fate brought us together. Fate knew I needed her and she needed me.

I will update again soon.

LDG said:

Oh shoot - I did not want this news!!!!!

I agree with Krysta - she is one very lucky kitty, and you're an angel!

I'll keep up the vibes that the surgery did the trick, and her cancer will NOT return!!!!

But WOW - I am so glad you've got her on raw! That is the best diet for her for sure. It's called "the cancer fighting diet." There are no studies or scientific "proof," only logical theories based in some kind of science, but some have linked cancer in cats d dogs to high levels of carbs in the diet (not as the cause, if I recall correctly, but as "feeding" the cancer). So hopefully this will go a long way to keeping her cancer-free!

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I know!!!

I agree she is one lucky Kitty.

My vet said if it wasn't for us taking her in she would likely be gone by now. So I am glad she has a nice home and a better life than what she had before, however long or short it is.

I sure hope that the raw diet will help against cancer, I am unsure if she has other cancers, but if she does I hope that eating healthy will give her a better chance at keeping things at bay.

Krysta said:

Awww --not the news you wanted, but at least it's not all bad.  It's so good you took her in so she has a better chance now . I send her a hug! 

   Will keep 

 for the better 50!

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Thank you Krysta, I sure hope her chances are better.

I often wonder if her "cancer" goes deeper than just her ear. She sometimes has off days where she just isn't her usual self. The only thing I can do is just do my best to provide her with a quality of life. She at least has a warm loving home, yummy healthy food now and humans who love her dearly regardless the outcome.

That's great news that they didn't find anything. Now we will just have to pray that nothing comes back. Starting her on raw, may have been a blessing in disguise in more ways than one!

Let's hope it is!  That's nice that she is back up on the bed with you. I'm sure the snuggle time did her some good as well.

Prayers for your baby for continued healing!!!

Glad the diarrhea incident is over with! Poor thing probably is still recovering from surgery, and the meds may make her feel a little off. But YAY that she's adjusting to your new home! :rub:

Good afternoon everyone!

It's been a little while since I have posted, I have been busy setting up the new place and have had little time lately to post.

I wanted to stop by and let you all know that Kitty had her stitches removed the other day and she is looking great.

At the vets office we made sure to take photos of both her ears, to monitor any changes. For now Kitty is cancer free, but there is a possibility that the issue may return.

I really hope that we are lucky enough to have this all behind us, and it does not come back. There are other things we can try though if it does return, but for now we can be happy that it is over at the moment.

The little collar she was wearing while she had the stitches in was a wonderful alternative to the cone, but after a week of wearing it I noticed that she seemed to be very itchy around her neck. I took off the collar only to see that she had massive hairballs that seemed quite tight!

I removed them all to Kitty's relief, but thought it would be good to let anyone know that if they want to try this type of collar to be sure to give things a check every few days, maybe even giving the fur a nice brushing to prevent hairballs. Lesson learned!

She is doing great! Still has a healthy appetite and I have recently introduced her to duck! She loves it. She has gone from really liking the Carnivora Chicken, to not so thrilled with it though, so I have been giving it a little less than I was before. I still need her to eat that!

I have also cut back her prednisolone from 1 5mg tablet every other day to half a tablet every other day, and so far so good.

I really hope that I can take her off completely soon.

The recent poop report is well.... perfect! All nice perfect little poops! I did find one poo that was a little odd though one day while cleaning the litter pan. It was poo shaped but consisted of all fur.

Not sure if that is normal, but she obviously passed it with no issues. That was a first though for her so far on this diet. She does eat mostly NV raw food, but I have been giving her some Carnivora Offal again in her diet to offset the bone to meat ratio with no problems. She really seems to like the offal, so this is great.

Last night I gave her a little sardine in water for a snack, she was really bugging me for a treat so I caved.

Afterwards, I noticed she was at her water bowl having a drink. She does not usually drink water but she was only there for the drink that one time that I noticed. Maybe it is a new habit? She was drinking quite a lot before while she was on the meds for her ear, but it seemed to slow down. I have been adding some water to her raw to give her more just in case. I am not sure if her drinking water should be any cause for concern,

but it seems to only be sometimes and not at it constantly. Should I be concerned with this?

Anyway, the good news is she seems back to normal, playing and cuddling and just enjoying her life and her new place. There is lots of room for her to run around and that is just what she does! She also seems to enjoy hanging out with mamma on the balcony taking in the evening fresh air.

Summer is going to be nice, of course after sunset to avoid any issues, but at least she can still enjoy the sights and sounds and of course the fresh air!

That's wonderful news! Glad to hear all is going well.

Thanks for the happy update!

Sardines are really really salty, that may be why she drank afterward, even though she normally doesn't.

Unfortunately after reducing Kitty's Prednisolone, it seems that she is back to passing mucus.

She was doing really well too, 6 days passed and I thought all was well but today It was back to mucus, and she is also gassy.

Poor thing even snubbed her dinner, I offered her some offal instead and she ate a little of that. I gave her the other half of her pred pill that was supposed to be tomorrows pill along with a tylosin in hopes to relieve her belly upset. I offered her half of the left overs of her dinner and she did eat that too after a few hours, but the poor girl just seems a bit on the down side. Hope she feels better in the next few days. Looks like kitty will always be on the pred. This is the second time I have tried to reduce the meds and twice it has been a fail. At least we know what works.

At least the raw diet is not causing any upset, I know that now after seeing how much it has helped her in the long run.

How frustrating. Are you giving her a probiotic every day?

otto said:

How frustrating. Are you giving her a probiotic every day?

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Yes she gets probiotic everyday, she has been getting some ever since I started her on the raw diet. I think that the last time we had a day or 2 of the mucus passing she was on the medication for her ear. But I still gave the probiotic and the issue passed after a couple of days.

It seems that she may need to be on the meds life long.

The raw feeding has helped get her bowel movements under control,at least producing solid well formed poops as oppose to soft unformed ones.

Since beginning the RAW diet I have seen a huge difference in her overall health. The IBD (if that's really what it is...) seems like it can not be cured for her with diet alone. But The raw diet has made it so she can live a much better life. That is all I can really ask for I suppose. So I guess keeping her on a steady regime is what is best for little Kitty.

On a positive note,

she has been getting a pretty good variety in her diet now. She gets NV Chicken, Duck, Lamb and Beef. Also a little beef offal from Carnivora. She seems to like it all, with the exception of her upset tummy tonight. I am glad she is doing well with all the flavors as I want to keep her interested and happy with her meals. She is no longer too interested in the Carnivora Chicken for some reason... not sure why she changed her mind with that brand.

She is usually not a very fussy eater at all, but she seems to be becoming a bit of a fuss now that she is getting spoiled with all this REAL food!

Well, IBD can be a really difficult problem.

BUT I do have an idea for you that might be worth a try. When Chumley had his major diarrhea for 7 months, pred was not an option for him because he's FIV+.

The holistic vet we finally found had us use a mixture of aloe vera juice and slippery elm bark powder. The local health food store carried both. The brand of aloe vera juice I bought (also available in Canada) is George's. It is not organic - but organic aloe vera juice is bitter. George's has no taste. The combination is very anti-inflammatory. The dose is 1/4 teaspoon of aloe vera juice mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of SEB. Mix it up, let it gel, and mix it in the food. We were to give this to Chumley twice a day, which we did. It really, really helped him.

And I don't remember - are you giving her a salmon oil or krill oil supplement? Because those are also very anti-inflammatory. Either one - use 500mg daily.

I'd try the aloe vera juice/SEB combo 2x a day for a couple of weeks, and then try the pred weaning again. If she still has the mucous problem, then pred it is. But it's worth a try!