Preparing for kittens =D

Yup, I am on the kitten count down, some of you may remember earlier in the summer my cat Emry got pregnant and had a miscarriage at about 5 weeks, the vet put her on anti-biotics, and didn't want to spay her until she recovered, I asked how much spaying her would be and when he told me I was literally like O3O, because it was honestly an amount that, at that moment I could not afford.

So I started looking into low cost spay and nuetering, which there is only one place in this area and it is harder than heck to get a spot (they only take 50 cats at a time, so you have to make an appointment months in advance)

then a few weeks ago I broke my ankle, and was on strict order from the doctor to not walk much because if the way it was broken, so I was relying on family members to help care for the cats. All three cats spend a great deal of time outside, so I hadn't really seen them for about 2 weeks, I was finally given the all clear to walk freely last week, and that's when I noticed that Emry was looking rather round.

I estimate that she is at this point inbetween 6-7 weeks along, as she has only gotten bigger over the last week, and has started looking rather uncomfortable. I'd say she's going to have 2-3 kittens as well. As well as her nipples feel like they are filling in.

I have several spots set up for her to birth in, through out the house, though I have a feeling she'll have them on the back porch (which is screened in) and she gets 5-6 small meals a day which she eats rather graciously.

Just to let everybody know, as I said I DID intend to get her spayed because of the miscarriage, however am STILL waiting to get on the list.

I am also on VERY limited funds at the moment, paying a 9,000$ doctors bill, because I do not have insuance, and as well as still paying off the 500$ vet bill added to the fact that I have no worked in over a year, and cannot currently work because I've atleast 4 more weeks for my ankle to heal enough for me to be able to do my little odd jobs, money is very very tight, so spaying her via the vet or humane society was not am option because the vets refuse to help you out, and the local humane society has been known to put cats brought in to be spayed up for adoption.

just wanted to put that out there before someone got on my case.

So here's to hoping for happy, healthy kittens, and a happy, healthy and good momma Emry.

I will keep those who want to be, updated.

We are waiting for further reports, as things do proceed!

Good luck with the cats, the healing - and finding job!    *vibes*

The best way to stop an unspayed cat getting pregnant is to keep her indoors, of course she's pregnant again the poor girl

Spaying is far cheaper than raising a litter

missymotus said:

Spaying is far cheaper than raising a litter

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Yeah, it is very costly to be poor.  I know this from my own experience, so I do understand Gibbly.  

missymotus said:

The best way to stop an unspayed cat getting pregnant is to keep her indoors, of course she's pregnant again the poor girl
Spaying is far cheaper than raising a litter

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I am well aware of this, but relying on family to care for the cats, and telling them NOT to let cats out, they didn't exactly listen u_u besides that, Emry is a caller when she is in heat, atleast every other heat cycle besides the last one which she may have called then too, I do not know, compared to her sister Paint, who is a silent heat cat.

typically I would agree, but at this point honestly, caring for a litter of kittens will be alot cheaper than paying the cost of the vets to have her spayed.

rest assured that the kittens will recieve their shots and all before going to their new homes, which I do not plan on doing until they are 3-4 months old as I do not believe in re-homing kittens at 5-6 weeks, because at that age they are a novelity and the there is the uber "cute" factor and they become expendable, and, ya know 5 and 6 weeks is WAY too young to pull kittens from their mother/littermates.

I wouldn't call myself "poor" in the image of being poor, I make enough money to feed the cats, walmart usually has good prices on large boxes of 32 cans of canned catfood (friskies, yuck x_x ) I like to buy them Evo or TOTW but atleast the friskies I get doesn't have corn in it, and my cousin's husbans knows a butcher, so I usually get meat for  RAW pretty cheap too, but yeah as far as it goes, I go without so my cats can has lol, but it's not fun.

I will update when something exciting happens xD, and I will hope I can scrounge up a camera before the birth too o3o

Gibbly said:

typically I would agree, but at this point honestly, caring for a litter of kittens will be alot cheaper than paying the cost of the vets to have her spayed.

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I fostered a cat with 5 kittens this time last year.  The amount of food they ate and litter they went through plus the cost of worming meds for the kittens cost me a lot more than having a non-pregnant cat spayed would have, and I didn't have any problems.  She delivered fine, none of the kittens were ill.

Well, it looks like the kittens have dropped,atleast I hope that's what's happened u_u she's not as round as she was yesterday, she's still active and has her appitite, she's also been wanting to go outside lately, which I havn't been letting her do, obviously.

if she has dropped when should she start nesting? it's been forever since I've had alitter of indoor kittens

Someone put my mind at ease, if she were having another miscarriage she'd get sick again, yeah?  the last time she got horrible sick, and didn't eat for nearly a week before hand.

I'm just so worried u_u

*kittenvibeskittvibeskittenvibes x3x*

If you had got her spayed you wouldn't be worrying, and every time she goes out (is let out) when she isn't pregnant she will probably come back pregnant.  This is the case even if she is feeding kittens - left to their own devices cats will quite often get pregnant when their kittens are 2-3 weeks old.

If you can screw your courage to get her spayed you will be doing both her and yourself a big favour.  I'm sure there is someone here who can help you find somewhere that's safe for her.

Are you seriously suggesting that I get her spayed WHILE she is pregnant? I don't think so. I do not believe in abortion, no matter what the species, and that is basically what it is.

you're basically  saying that ALL cats get pregnant while raising a litter, which is simply NOT true, I've been around cats/raised cats for well over 15 years and have NEVER had a cat get pregnant while raising a litter.

you can judge the way I care for my cats until the cows come home for all I care, but the simple fact is you don't see me going around bashing "breeders" who breed cats like persians who have so many problems it's not funny, or bengals who are banned in several states.

I had seriously wanted to get through this without having an argument, but I guess some people are not capable of simply accepting that "purebred" cats, are not the only cats that should be allowed to reproduce.

I will ask again, since it looks like she's dropped, when should she lose her appitite/start nesting?

I said nothing about when to spay her - you are jumping to conclusions. 

And cats can and do come into season when nursing small kittens - I've seen one with a 3-week old kitten in full call.  Had she got out she would have become pregnant again, and you also know from your own experience that cats don't always have a simple straightforward pregnancy.

To answer your question:  personally I've never noticed kittens dropping but maybe I'm unobservant.  However, kittens come when they come.  Not all females lose their appetite, not all of them nest.  If you know the date of mating then it's possible to know if they are dangerously overdue - more than 70 days - and seek vetinary help.  But when you don't know all you can do is sit and wait.  One mating is enough to get a cat pregnant, and that takes seconds.

OrientalSlave said:

And cats can and do come into season when nursing small kittens - I've seen one with a 3-week old kitten in full call.  

To answer your question:  personally I've never noticed kittens dropping but maybe I'm unobservant. 

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My girls always come back into call at 3-5 weeks after kittens, sometimes sooner. 

I do notice my girls drop, and other little signs, but not all cats read the manual   The appetite loss usually coincides with the bubs dropping. Have you not noticed that over the 15 years of having kittens?

Ladies, ladies, ladies,

We have had this discussion before and not gotten anywhere so there is no need to re-hash. Gibbly- as it happens on forums and in life we have a difference of opinion on some things (and on this particular topic I do agree with OS and MM that queens can and do come back into heat while nursing). However, you are entitled to your opinion and while we don't agree on everything, of course I am sending you good vibes that Emry has a healthy litter. I understand you are in a hard situation and had the best of intentions. The focus now is not on what could have/would have/should have happened but on making sure you have all the tools you need so you can help Emry have these babies!

I would think if she was mis-carrying she would show signs of being ill since that is what happened before. Unfortunately not all queens exhibit the same signs prior to labor; not all drop and not all nest. Do you have a nest box set up for her and have her confined to a limited area? That is best so she can get used to her nest and comfortable with her surroundings. Other than that, if she is not seemingly sick all you can do is wait it out. Some queens do not eat a day or two prior to delivery but if it's more than that I would be concerned. I think you know Emry pretty well- if it feels like something is wrong then I would listen to your gut and call the vet for advice. 

Here's wishing you and Emry the best of luck for a safe delivery and healthy kittens! Please keep us posted. 

missymotus said:

My girls always come back into call at 3-5 weeks after kittens, sometimes sooner. 

I do notice my girls drop, and other little signs, but not all cats read the manual 

 The appetite loss usually coincides with the bubs dropping. Have you not noticed that over the 15 years of having kittens?

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I have said it several times and I will say it again, I have not had a litter of strictly indoor kittens in about 6 years, I have had cats/kittens for 15 years, most of which have been free-roaming, working farm cats who did their own thing, they'd get pregnant, go off, have kittens, come back not pregnant, kittens would come toddling along behind momma 5-7 weeks later, where i would tame(and re-home some of ) what I could, those that were not tamed were given a permanent place on the farm.

 yes I agree that every cat is different, but saying that ALL queens DO go into heat while nursing a litter is simply not true(maybe things are different for indoor cats), never in those 15 years had I EVER had a cat go into heat and get pregnant while nursing a litter, and even if they DID go into a silent heat, mating was the last thing on their minds, as they would rather enthusiastically tell any tom or female or even our 160 pound rottwieler mix off if they were too close to their kittens.

I also agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, but I do not appreciate being bashed/basically being called a horrible person because one of my cats is having kittens, personally I think spaying/nuetering is a pointless, risky persuit that is not needed because it CAN be controlled (I.E keeping queens inside while in heat, same with dogs, or keeping males tied when outside ect.)

but I would and will spay any one of my cats if I thought there was a medical reason.

I have several little spots set up for the birth (not that she'll use any xD) but as far as confining her goes, we have no "small" rooms in which to do so, added to the fact that she spazzes when she's locked up, once the kittens are born (I am Pretty positive she'll have them on the screened in back porch) in which after a couple days after the birth they will be moved, as it does get cold here at night.

Err...  Your female got out....  When in call they are veritable Houdinis. 

And while you are welcome to think that spaying is pointless and risky, all the evidence is that there far bigger health risks associating with a female not being neutered - larger (and potentially a lot more expensive) than those of being neutered.  The most obvious ones are pymetra and breast cancer. 

If she is outdoor and keeps having kittens those are less likely, instead she runs the risks of pregnancy and delivery.  I guess Darwinism keeps those to a minimum. 

I know a lot of dog people are turning against spay/neuter. And while I do see some risks in neutering male dogs, and I know that female dogs can be contained while heat with proper effort, really with cats it's entirely different. A female cat is basically always in heat until bred, and can get pregnant even when not in heat if the tom takes her by force (induced ovulation), so if she gets out at all she WILL get pregnant. And if she's prevented from getting pregnant, the rate of reproductive disease seems quite high, higher than in dogs (and 25% of unspayed dogs will get pyo at some point, so that's high enough already!). And of course tomcats are rarely agreeable housepets. I wouldn't consider keeping a cat intact, though I might with a dog.

Maybe you can share your technique for finding good homes for kittens . Those of us who rescue find it extremely difficult due to oversupply. I can't give them away most of the time . Which is, of course, why I have so many cats. . .:lol3:

Cats are stimulated ovulators anyway, all feline species are, they go into heat but they do not release eggs, the first couple matings is what causes the females body to release the ready eggs (more over the surge of hormones caused by the spines of the males penis digging into the walls of the females vagina, this is also why cats scream when they are mating), and why mating is not a very pretty, love induced thing xD..but I'm sure everybody here knows that O3O cats also mate on average of 100 times per hour or some such number, where they get the energy, I'll never know u_u

anyway..moving on from that burst of wierdness

dogs are a completely different story to me, I do not own a dog, but am planning to get one within the next year(if things with my money situation pan out), if I get a female she would more than likely be spayed because female dogs bleed when they are in heat, and as much as I've always wanted a litter of puppies, it's much harder in this area to re-home pups than it is kittens, because there are always people looking for farm cats or warehouses looking for natural rodent control, infact one of my bottle babies from a few years ago is currently living at the local jail, doing his best along with a couple other cats to keep the mice at bay.

As I've said, I have had cats die as a result of being spayed, one of which was a bottle baby who I went through hell and back just to keep alive, and so I was quite fond of her, she was tiny, so I got her spayed at a year old, she died several weeks later due to a severe infection, the pain she went through with that was far worse than having kittens ever would have been, because when the vet told me it was best just to put her down after over three weeks of strong anti-biotics. I swore to never again risk that with one of my cats, tom or queen, if I wouldn't nueter myself, I wouldn't nueter my cat.

IF and only if something medical were to come up and they need be, then yes there would be no question I would spay/nueter my cat to save their lives.

the biggest issue I'm having with Emry now is trying to keep her in the house -3- in the spring I wouldn't have cared if she had them outside, but it gets far too cold at night, and she's anywhere from a few days to 2 weeks later if she's about 6 weeks now, which I'm not entirely sure

Gibbly said:

I also agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, but I do not appreciate being bashed/basically being called a horrible person because one of my cats is having kittens, personally I think spaying/nuetering is a pointless, risky persuit that is not needed because it CAN be controlled (I.E keeping queens inside while in heat, same with dogs, or keeping males tied when outside ect.)

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Please remember Gibbly that the this forum is a pro spay/neuter site. While you can have this belief, know you will encounter opposition to it just based on the nature of the forum. 

" This is a pro-spay-and-neuter website. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. If you take care of a feral colony, please make sure to do so responsibly by practicing TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) protocols within the colony. Read More Here."

However, as mentioned, the issue is not how the kittens came to exist but how to help you care for them now. You may continue to advance your individual school of thought and are seemingly firm in that view, but just use this as a basis to understand why many are countering you. 

It must be nice to live somewhere with a demand for kittens (although I wonder what others in your area might say). Here the farmers kill them by the dozens because there are far too many.

Also, in your bit about cats being induced ovulators, it makes it sound like you think cats can't get pregnant the first time. They can. . .sperm can live in the body for 3 days so the eggs have time to drop and be fertilized. Many people have young cats who scoot out for 10 minutes and come back pregnant.

Willowy said:

It must be nice to live somewhere with a demand for kittens (although I wonder what others in your area might say). Here the farmers kill them by the dozens because there are far too many.
Also, in your bit about cats being induced ovulators, it makes it sound like you think cats can't get pregnant the first time. They can. . .sperm can live in the body for 3 days so the eggs have time to drop and be fertilized. Many people have young cats who scoot out for 10 minutes and come back pregnant.

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Personally I really don't care what others in my area say, my business is my business and no one elses, that's the way I see it, I don't bother them, they don't bother me and all three of my cats are stranger fearful, and won't approach someone they don't know.

Alot of people around here don't have pet cats, mostly dogs, but there is a huge  beef cattle farm not far off who are always needing cats, as well as other places.

exactly, and in 10 minutes a cat can mate about 2 or 3 times, but I never said it can't be done in just one mating, but it's unusual.

at anyrate, as I said I will update when something exciting happens, right now just alot of eating, and laying around, and being grouchy o3o

If any of your kittens (or their kittens and so on--any cat who exists because of you) end up on the streets or in shelters where other people have to spend their time and money to deal with them, you've made it their business. Your choices don't just affect you. And that's why many of us can't see the birth of kittens as a joyous event--we know it frequently leads to the death of those kittens or other cats who don't find homes because of those kittens. Just so you know where we're coming from.