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Furry Mice
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It is bad healthwise, but I believe it's important to do something. I think it's better to do so without getting too worked up (again, healthwise
) but I know that it's very difficult to do.
Donna, I agree that this is a different culture and that's why I wouldn't try to convince them not to eat cats and dogs. I think that the theological arguments that Debby brought up cannot apply to a different culture that doesn't share the belief in the same God.
However, I do think it's legitimate to try and intervene to stop them from being so cruel to animals. There are many abhorrent practices in this world that I will not tolerate and give up on trying to change them just because they are of a different culture. Women oppression in Afganistan, genocides in Africa and slavery in South America and elsewhere are just some examples. I feel we should be make ourselves heard about these issues. As I said, I personally do my best to avoid buying any Chinese products. To drive the point home I felt I needed to let the Chinese representatives know that I'm doing so. I think that if enough people do this, then the Chinese government will have to act.
Just my 2 cents...
Donna, I agree that this is a different culture and that's why I wouldn't try to convince them not to eat cats and dogs. I think that the theological arguments that Debby brought up cannot apply to a different culture that doesn't share the belief in the same God.
However, I do think it's legitimate to try and intervene to stop them from being so cruel to animals. There are many abhorrent practices in this world that I will not tolerate and give up on trying to change them just because they are of a different culture. Women oppression in Afganistan, genocides in Africa and slavery in South America and elsewhere are just some examples. I feel we should be make ourselves heard about these issues. As I said, I personally do my best to avoid buying any Chinese products. To drive the point home I felt I needed to let the Chinese representatives know that I'm doing so. I think that if enough people do this, then the Chinese government will have to act.
Just my 2 cents...
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I don't buy them after the experience I had years ago. I worked for a major store chain and worked in the warehouse where all day all we did was stick prices on merchandise. I had only worked there a short while when we were told that there was new merchandise coming down the line and we were given a pair of gloves to wear? When I asked my supervisor, she said the mice (toys for cats) come in infested with parasites so the shipment is flash frozen to kill the fleas or whatever is on them. The gloves were to handle the mice who had to be scraped off because though the bugs were dead, they were still attached. These mice were the ones who stood on their hind legs and hold a kernel of corn. So every time I see a furry mouse in a package, it stays right on the shelf in the market. No thanks! Also somewhere I have an article about a humane shelter who sold the euthanized animals out the back door so that stuffed animals could have real fur. I just stay away from furry things all together unless they move, and breathe and meow.....
I have always bought those furry mice with the rattley things inside by the dozen. My cats are CRAZY about them....I don`t feel the need to jump on the bandwagon and write letters....although I respect the conviction and determination of anyone who does...but my cats will have to deal with a substitute, because I will not buy another one. I have seen them made out of another material that is not furry, but still rattles. I guess I will try that to see if they like it.
Thank you Anne and Hissy ...
...I really appreciate your confirmation of support as do the gazillions of precious babies that are savegedly murdered for thier precious skins each day. God forbid this should ever reach the states. Then and only then will we get a rise out of some people....geeeee...how sad!
Oh and thanks Donna & Tiggytoes for your contribution in not purchasing those friggen things!
I pray my words are heard...
Love &,
...I really appreciate your confirmation of support as do the gazillions of precious babies that are savegedly murdered for thier precious skins each day. God forbid this should ever reach the states. Then and only then will we get a rise out of some people....geeeee...how sad!
Love &,
Anne....you are right...my religious beleifs about God and how he feels about eating meat, of any kind, certainly aren't relevant to someone who beleives in a different God, or in no God at all. I hope I didn't offend anyone...sometimes I get a bit carried away with letting people know how I feel about (my) God.
And Catarina.... I have something to say...but I wasn't sure if I should say it or not...because I love you dearly...
you are like the big sis I never had, and always wished I did....but could I say something here...without offending you or judging you at all?
I feel that when you are truley close to a person (as we are) you can each air your views without hurting or offending each other...and I in turn will welcome your opinions on this....
But I have to say....(but hopefully not at the risk of losing your friendship).....
You say it totally upsets you and turns you off that people eat anything but fish or poultry....(like cows, pigs, sheep...etc)
I DO eat these things...and LOVE them...my question to you is....
(remember I love you...) how can you eat a bird or a fish, and consider that "okay" but not a cow? Is a chickens life worth less than a cow's? I don't think so...but yet you deem that okay. I feel that eating a chicken or a fish is no different from eating a cow..or a pig. I will stick to my guns here....some animals were put on this earth for companionship, and some for food. I hope I don't offend anyone...everyone has the right to their own beleifs and principles...I am just trying to explain mine.
Catarina.... I pray to God I have not offended you by stating how I feel....it would hurt me so bad to lose your friendship.
And Catarina.... I have something to say...but I wasn't sure if I should say it or not...because I love you dearly...
I feel that when you are truley close to a person (as we are) you can each air your views without hurting or offending each other...and I in turn will welcome your opinions on this....
But I have to say....(but hopefully not at the risk of losing your friendship).....
You say it totally upsets you and turns you off that people eat anything but fish or poultry....(like cows, pigs, sheep...etc)
I DO eat these things...and LOVE them...my question to you is....
(remember I love you...) how can you eat a bird or a fish, and consider that "okay" but not a cow? Is a chickens life worth less than a cow's? I don't think so...but yet you deem that okay. I feel that eating a chicken or a fish is no different from eating a cow..or a pig. I will stick to my guns here....some animals were put on this earth for companionship, and some for food. I hope I don't offend anyone...everyone has the right to their own beleifs and principles...I am just trying to explain mine.
Catarina.... I pray to God I have not offended you by stating how I feel....it would hurt me so bad to lose your friendship.
Dearest Deb... :angel2:
How can I be angry or upset in any way with you, especially when you're telling me your feelings? Thank you for being honest and up front with me...I appreciate it. Yes, that did sound and it was biased wasn't it. I guess I have to look at that myself and have been justifying in my own mind that I have to have some form of protein and I'd rather it come from poultry or fish rather than a cow or other four hoofed animal. I choose this simply because of the fat content. It's low and it's much healthier.
I still stand firm on my ground about it though. I guess in my heart since I've seen the gruesome torture these animals are inflicted with; why should I advocate it by eating it. To me, the killing of a fish or foul is less excruciating to my mind. Whatever it is...as long as I'm not stooping to eating cats or dogs...which leads you to probably say "who am I to say who is to eat what"...well, I have my opinion and beliefs just like anyone else and have the backbone to stand up to it. God have mercy on the soul I "see" begin to eat a cat, dog, big cat, or any other endangered species... I pass judgement and jury on them that day. It all revolves around the fact that life is filled with suffering. Too bad about the misfortune of others that aren't provided with being among the fit. This is how the world keeps a watch on its population. Those that live in deserts...well, good luck...same with third world countries. Sorry, it may sound cruel, but I didn't create the situations on earth and certainly am powerless to change it. Even in nature, it's about survival of the fittest. The weak will die and the strongest prevail. I'm sure you think I'm harsh, I am I suppose, but again, I'm not trying to clean up what I said earlier...these are my own beliefs. Have you ever seen a slaughterhouse? I have...trust me, it's somewhere I'd rather not wish my biggest adversary to see. Yes, I've seen chickens killed too...Fish as well, the inhumanity, while it appears to be less cruel to me, the outcome remains the same...death. I do value that chicken/fish's life. I thank the Lord and I thank that creature for sparing its life for me so I may eat. No, I'm not into fishing either. I wouldn't have the heart to kill it! I know...I know double standard in a way isn't it! I don't want to kill it; it's just that I know it's in the store and I can buy it...I have my own eccentricities too!
There's plenty of food in this world, I don't think by becoming a glutton is a way of life. To eat what your body needs is what I would believe what God intended. I don't condemn people for eating beef...it's my choice not to; that's all I'm saying. Our resources are so plentiful...look at the shape of the world today. Those of who do wish to indulge in a never-ending struggle, look at them. Not only are they obese, but their will to live is dangerously low! How prevalent obesity is in the masses! Which is another different whacked out avenue in this labyrinth we call society! Pitiful souls that have no desire to believe that there is more to life than chewing! Do you think they think about where their food comes from and what animals may suffer? I didn't want to get so long winded about this; however, I guess it's all a matter of perspective and perhaps to me, I am a bit more eccentric/whacko when it comes to many of our four legged creatures than some may say they are. ...I don't care...I love who I am and I'll stick to what I believe in regarding cats, dogs, cows, sheep, pigs, deer, elk, and whatever else that turns my stomach inside out when it comes to saying bonne repas! I better quit while I've dug a big enough hole that I may not get out of...Sorry for my brutal honesty. I am quite sure that I meant no harm and certainly will cherish your friendship as always.
Love ,
How can I be angry or upset in any way with you, especially when you're telling me your feelings? Thank you for being honest and up front with me...I appreciate it. Yes, that did sound and it was biased wasn't it. I guess I have to look at that myself and have been justifying in my own mind that I have to have some form of protein and I'd rather it come from poultry or fish rather than a cow or other four hoofed animal. I choose this simply because of the fat content. It's low and it's much healthier.
There's plenty of food in this world, I don't think by becoming a glutton is a way of life. To eat what your body needs is what I would believe what God intended. I don't condemn people for eating beef...it's my choice not to; that's all I'm saying. Our resources are so plentiful...look at the shape of the world today. Those of who do wish to indulge in a never-ending struggle, look at them. Not only are they obese, but their will to live is dangerously low! How prevalent obesity is in the masses! Which is another different whacked out avenue in this labyrinth we call society! Pitiful souls that have no desire to believe that there is more to life than chewing! Do you think they think about where their food comes from and what animals may suffer? I didn't want to get so long winded about this; however, I guess it's all a matter of perspective and perhaps to me, I am a bit more eccentric/whacko when it comes to many of our four legged creatures than some may say they are. ...I don't care...I love who I am and I'll stick to what I believe in regarding cats, dogs, cows, sheep, pigs, deer, elk, and whatever else that turns my stomach inside out when it comes to saying bonne repas! I better quit while I've dug a big enough hole that I may not get out of...Sorry for my brutal honesty. I am quite sure that I meant no harm and certainly will cherish your friendship as always.
Love ,
Yo Cat,
Listen up Hon. Food addiction, just as alcoholism, drugs and smoking are all diseases. The big difference here is your body NEEDS food for energy. And people with weight problems are forced to face their addiction 3 times a day every day of their lives in order to survive. Once you quit smoking, drinking or doing drugs, it just doesn't stare at you in the face like food does. I hate the word obese because it is such a label and so judgmental. I happen to be overweight and took offense at your remark about how obese people are pitiful souls who don't think about what they're chewing. As a matter of fact, I am chewing on a cookie right now and thinking about how good it is. How dare you say that people with weight problems have a dangerously low will to live. Do you happend to have a degree in psychology that you can make that kind of judgment??
And don't you think that the fish or chicken you eat every day cry out in pain as they are caught or slaughtered? How about the alfalfa sprouts, broccoli spears or mushrooms? They're LIVING plants before you pluck them and stuff them in your mouth.
What your whole shpeal about overweight people and how or what they eat has anything to do with little furry mice my cats play with is beyond me.
And I don't consider this flaming anyone either, I am simply stating that I am highly offended by your one sided, prejudicial statements on the eating habits and psyche of people with food addictions.
Donna
Listen up Hon. Food addiction, just as alcoholism, drugs and smoking are all diseases. The big difference here is your body NEEDS food for energy. And people with weight problems are forced to face their addiction 3 times a day every day of their lives in order to survive. Once you quit smoking, drinking or doing drugs, it just doesn't stare at you in the face like food does. I hate the word obese because it is such a label and so judgmental. I happen to be overweight and took offense at your remark about how obese people are pitiful souls who don't think about what they're chewing. As a matter of fact, I am chewing on a cookie right now and thinking about how good it is. How dare you say that people with weight problems have a dangerously low will to live. Do you happend to have a degree in psychology that you can make that kind of judgment??
And don't you think that the fish or chicken you eat every day cry out in pain as they are caught or slaughtered? How about the alfalfa sprouts, broccoli spears or mushrooms? They're LIVING plants before you pluck them and stuff them in your mouth.
What your whole shpeal about overweight people and how or what they eat has anything to do with little furry mice my cats play with is beyond me.
And I don't consider this flaming anyone either, I am simply stating that I am highly offended by your one sided, prejudicial statements on the eating habits and psyche of people with food addictions.
Donna
Cat...
"Those of who do wish to indulge in a never-ending struggle, look at them."
By them.. exactly who are you referring to? You seem to be referring to those who are over weight, but I think maybe you also should consider those who are in the other side of the spectrum, Bulimic and anorexic individuals who also indulge in the never ending struggle.
"Not only are they obese, but their will to live is dangerously low!"
Interesting philosophy, I suppose now we should camp out at fast food places and offer suicide counseling
"How prevalent obesity is in the masses!"
Yes, it is, but I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated that just those who wish to indulge or not.
"Pitiful souls" .....
That's a scary thought, if you really believe that
..... "that have no desire to believe that there is more to life than chewing!"
Do you really think that the people you have so neatly categorized in your post are actually like this? You really ought to get out more.
"Do you think they think about where their food comes from and what animals may suffer?"
I think that in general, most (and I could be off on the amount) people, overweight or not, don't think about that.
Nor do they spend a lot of time contemplating the conditions of the kitchens in their favorite restaurants.
I think what bothers me most about your post is the fact that you simply weren't aware of the people that you might offend by that little snippet, or that you were aware, and you simply didn't care.
I'm not quite sure which is worse. I do realize that, however thoughtless your post was, it is, your opinion.
Indeed I may have from time to time posted something that may have been read in a way in which I did not mean to convey, but for the life of me, after re-reading your post, there's no other conclusions I can draw.
Ken
"Those of who do wish to indulge in a never-ending struggle, look at them."
By them.. exactly who are you referring to? You seem to be referring to those who are over weight, but I think maybe you also should consider those who are in the other side of the spectrum, Bulimic and anorexic individuals who also indulge in the never ending struggle.
"Not only are they obese, but their will to live is dangerously low!"
Interesting philosophy, I suppose now we should camp out at fast food places and offer suicide counseling
"How prevalent obesity is in the masses!"
Yes, it is, but I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated that just those who wish to indulge or not.
"Pitiful souls" .....
That's a scary thought, if you really believe that
..... "that have no desire to believe that there is more to life than chewing!"
Do you really think that the people you have so neatly categorized in your post are actually like this? You really ought to get out more.
"Do you think they think about where their food comes from and what animals may suffer?"
I think that in general, most (and I could be off on the amount) people, overweight or not, don't think about that.
Nor do they spend a lot of time contemplating the conditions of the kitchens in their favorite restaurants.
I think what bothers me most about your post is the fact that you simply weren't aware of the people that you might offend by that little snippet, or that you were aware, and you simply didn't care.
I'm not quite sure which is worse. I do realize that, however thoughtless your post was, it is, your opinion.
Indeed I may have from time to time posted something that may have been read in a way in which I did not mean to convey, but for the life of me, after re-reading your post, there's no other conclusions I can draw.
Ken
Dear Donna and Ken,
After reading my post over again, there were a few things in there that I didn't need to say...it's no wonder you weren't any harsher on me. I am truly sorry. I can't believe a couple of things I wrote myself. How thoughtless and usually I am not. So...with that I'll close and if you want to slam me some more...go ahead...I deserve it.
Food addiction like any addicition is a terrible disease and I'm not judging anyone for any addiction/disease. I was harsh on people regardless and I'm truly sorry for what I said. I can't say anything more...I can barely forgive myself knowing I offended you so terribly and also knowing I posted something so quickly without giving a second thought to read it again before posting such cruel thoughts. Please forgive me.
Most Sincerely,
Catarina
After reading my post over again, there were a few things in there that I didn't need to say...it's no wonder you weren't any harsher on me. I am truly sorry. I can't believe a couple of things I wrote myself. How thoughtless and usually I am not. So...with that I'll close and if you want to slam me some more...go ahead...I deserve it.
Food addiction like any addicition is a terrible disease and I'm not judging anyone for any addiction/disease. I was harsh on people regardless and I'm truly sorry for what I said. I can't say anything more...I can barely forgive myself knowing I offended you so terribly and also knowing I posted something so quickly without giving a second thought to read it again before posting such cruel thoughts. Please forgive me.
Most Sincerely,
Catarina
Catarina, I just wanted to add that I too was at first offended by your post (as you know, I'm one of these overweight people...), but I didn't react at first because I know you for the angel that you are and I knew that you never meant no offence to anyone. I knew that you would never deliberately hurt anyone's feelings.
So, while I do appreciate the points that Ken and Donna made, I want to say that I do not share the tone. I think that we all should be a bit more careful about each other's feelings. It's sometimes too easy to let your emotions and opinions run wild on the keyboard, but we must always remember that there is a human being on the other side of the monitor. What's more if she/he is a member of the forums, they're probably not altogether bad people (they are cat lovers at least
).
I am trying my hardest to keep this place friendly. This definitely does not mean that people should not express their opinions! Just that we should try and express these opinions in the friendliest and least hostile way, so that everyone can feel at home here. I may be naive, but I do belive we can keep that spirit going.
So, while I do appreciate the points that Ken and Donna made, I want to say that I do not share the tone. I think that we all should be a bit more careful about each other's feelings. It's sometimes too easy to let your emotions and opinions run wild on the keyboard, but we must always remember that there is a human being on the other side of the monitor. What's more if she/he is a member of the forums, they're probably not altogether bad people (they are cat lovers at least
I am trying my hardest to keep this place friendly. This definitely does not mean that people should not express their opinions! Just that we should try and express these opinions in the friendliest and least hostile way, so that everyone can feel at home here. I may be naive, but I do belive we can keep that spirit going.
Dear Anne, :angel2:
Thank you and how precious you are for being more than kind, I am sitting here in tears as I meant not to hurt anyone here certainly not you, or Donna. People I know that care about me and have been so good to me. I am so sorry and it is beyond belief the pain that I feel for this discord. To try to explain what I think I was thinking will only bring up more controversy. I did, however; unknowingly target someone and it was a hit. There were judgmental statements I had made and is a true injustice on any human being. I had no right to say that. My Lord, my hands did run wild and I have no idea why I would say such things. I am running this over and over again in my mind as to what I was thinking. My only hope and I do pray now that I will be forgiven and trusted once again as a good person. I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am....this is quite an upset to me too.
I suppose now you will probably want to let this move on. This is a most precious site, with caring, positive people and deserves only the best of thoughts especially among it's members. However, if anyone needs to vent out on me, trust me I would definitely understand. My apologies are offered to every member here on this site for such a thoughtless posting. I am terribly sorry....I truly am...
Most Sincerely,
Catarina
Thank you and how precious you are for being more than kind, I am sitting here in tears as I meant not to hurt anyone here certainly not you, or Donna. People I know that care about me and have been so good to me. I am so sorry and it is beyond belief the pain that I feel for this discord. To try to explain what I think I was thinking will only bring up more controversy. I did, however; unknowingly target someone and it was a hit. There were judgmental statements I had made and is a true injustice on any human being. I had no right to say that. My Lord, my hands did run wild and I have no idea why I would say such things. I am running this over and over again in my mind as to what I was thinking. My only hope and I do pray now that I will be forgiven and trusted once again as a good person. I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am....this is quite an upset to me too.
I suppose now you will probably want to let this move on. This is a most precious site, with caring, positive people and deserves only the best of thoughts especially among it's members. However, if anyone needs to vent out on me, trust me I would definitely understand. My apologies are offered to every member here on this site for such a thoughtless posting. I am terribly sorry....I truly am...
Most Sincerely,
Catarina
Catarina....you had as much right as anyone to state your opinions...you just accidentally offended a couple people...I know you didn't mean to...but we do have to read our posts, and make sure that if it seems we are making a judgement, we expalin it.
We ALL have a right to state our opinions here...as long as we are careful not to step on someone's toes..which can be hard, I know...and I may someday be apologizing for doing just that...but the best thing about this site is...we can agree to disagree, and still love each other.
I was getting ready to make a post here, about how I have seen chickens butchered, and how they first cut there heads off, then they wait awhile, as the nervous system of the chicken is still alive, and the bird will run around, flapping it's wings, headless, for awhile before finally dying.
So Catarina...much as I love you, and your beleifs are your own...it is no better in my opinion to eat beef than fowl.
I love you Catarina!
We ALL have a right to state our opinions here...as long as we are careful not to step on someone's toes..which can be hard, I know...and I may someday be apologizing for doing just that...but the best thing about this site is...we can agree to disagree, and still love each other.
I was getting ready to make a post here, about how I have seen chickens butchered, and how they first cut there heads off, then they wait awhile, as the nervous system of the chicken is still alive, and the bird will run around, flapping it's wings, headless, for awhile before finally dying.
So Catarina...much as I love you, and your beleifs are your own...it is no better in my opinion to eat beef than fowl.
I love you Catarina!
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I too was first offended by your post because I have always had a weight problem my entire life. BUT I read it over and my thinking was you let your passion carry you away in one direction and you didn't re-read your post before you hit submit. I thought maybe you had a personal issue going on with someone you care about, and they are hurting themselves by not caring for their health, and that is why you posted that.
That said, please don't be so hard on yourself. All of us have said something wrong and one time or another, some have gotten jumped on, some gently reprimanded, but this board is a learning experience for sure and one of the most positive boards on the net. You have never intentionally hurt anyone on this board, so I just blew it off as you were having a bad day and your triggers were worn.
Take care, and remember, if you ask God to forgive you, it is important that you forgive yourself as well.
That said, please don't be so hard on yourself. All of us have said something wrong and one time or another, some have gotten jumped on, some gently reprimanded, but this board is a learning experience for sure and one of the most positive boards on the net. You have never intentionally hurt anyone on this board, so I just blew it off as you were having a bad day and your triggers were worn.
Take care, and remember, if you ask God to forgive you, it is important that you forgive yourself as well.
talk about 2 bad days meeting each other....I battle food daily, and was not having a good day either, so when I read the post. I was deeply offended, and didn't feel like I could enunciate the depth of my feelings and hurt, so I didn't even bother posting. And I didn't think it would matter anway. I agree that we all sometimes post things that unintentionally hurt feelings, but I think a little common sense can go along way. Anne started a thread about wanting to lose weight, and many members here posted on it about their own struggles with food, and trying to keep the pounds off. Knowing that I was pretty shocked to be referred to as a pitiful soul with a dangerously low will to live.
We all have bad days, the people posting, and the people reading the posts. I respect hissy & annes take on the post, and their ability to disregard it as cat having a bad day, but I was in a bad place as well and wasn't able to shake it off as easily.
I wasn't even going to post about how my feelings had been hurt by the remarks, but since everyone has been weighing in on what they thought & how they percieved it, I felt safe enough to put myself out there & how I felt.
I'm glad we can all talk about these things in a civilized manner.
We all have bad days, the people posting, and the people reading the posts. I respect hissy & annes take on the post, and their ability to disregard it as cat having a bad day, but I was in a bad place as well and wasn't able to shake it off as easily.
I wasn't even going to post about how my feelings had been hurt by the remarks, but since everyone has been weighing in on what they thought & how they percieved it, I felt safe enough to put myself out there & how I felt.
I'm glad we can all talk about these things in a civilized manner.
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Whether it was an intentional play on words or not, your comment about "everyone weighing in" got me giggling. If I weighed in for real, well, you would all feel sorry for my horses having to pull all this weight!
Anyway, it wasn't all that easy to dismiss, my feelings were hurt, but there are other pressing issues in my life I need to be more concerned with....
I am so sorry that anyone's feelings got hurt here...mine were too, actually, in another thread...and I for a minute thought about never coming back....I felt as though the kindness I had showed to this person, meant nothing...but...then I realized how much you all men to me, and how we all say things sometimes, that we either don't mean, or don't realize how they sound.
