Wet vs Dry - The Epic Debate - Page 4  

Trust is a key issue with commercial foods, but that is just me. I need to know where the food is made, how it is purchased by the suppliers, how it is manufactured and how many tests it goes through before it hits the shelves. I also need to know that the company manufactures it's own product, wet and dry. There are no 2nd or 3rd parties involved. That is a HUGE thing with me. That horrific recall back in 2007 really had me going (as it did most everyone else) and that is how I wound up working for the company I work for.

I totally agree with you on the raw diet issue. I think it would take a great deal of knowledge in order to do it properly. Balancing would be one of the issues that would probably be my biggest concern if I were to switch to a raw diet. I don't know much about the commercial raw diet, although I am aware of it. I'm curious if people feed a completely commercial raw diet or supplement with their own raw ingredients...

One thing is certain, we all love our cats and want what is best for them. Brings me to another question I have for people feeding a mix of wet and dry but that is a different thread topic.

The four cats who looked to me for their care in early 2007 were eating Nutro. One is dead; thankfully, the other three pulled through with no apparent lasting damage.

No tests were done, as Ollie past away before the recall was announced, but as you can imagine, trust is also a huge issue for me... actually, a defining issue, and the lack of it is one of the reasons I don't feed commercial to my cats today.

Please believe me when I reiterate what has already been said so well by Saitenyo, GoingPostal and others - feeding a fresh, raw diet may be (often is) scary on the face of it, but is actually very easy to execute. There's nothing difficult in calculating 3% of a cat's weight and then multiplying that by 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% any other organ (this is the average composition of a feral cat's typical prey diet).

The only difficult part is in the commitment an owner needs to make to follow that diet plan - and that's simply a choice, not a strenuous mental challenge.

Everyone has the right to feed their cats what they choose, and to include their personal priorities and circumstances as part of the basis for their choice, but it's also an owner's obligation to learn about the care and needs of the animal(s) they adopt, so they can make informed, deliberate choices that include an understanding of potential consequences.

I believe this profoundly and it's why I don't engage in debates.... I'll answer questions until my fingers fall off, and then I'll get on the phone and answer more questions, but in the end, the choice of what to feed is always - and rightfully so- in the hands of the owner.

AC

I am so sorry you lost a cat and the others got sick. I truly am. That must have been really, really hard. I'm not sure if you are implying Nutro was the cause or not. I'm not promoting my product when I say that I have not heard of any deaths or illnesses due to Nutro. As far as I know, the only product that was recalled were the wet cat food pouches and the tinned wet cat food. Those were voluntary recalls from what I can recall. If you're really interested I'll be happy to research it and give you exact numbers etc. During that time, Nutro made all of their own kibble and most of their tinned wet food. I think the only product that a 2nd party had anything to do with were the pouches, which is why Nutro recalled them. I was so floored during that entire time. Weird isn't it... I could believe it if it happened to the food I ate, but was shocked as all get out when it happened to my beloved pet's food. Shows you where my priorities are

I hope I'm using the quotes correctly here:

I do believe you. I don't discount a raw diet at all. I'm surprised by some of the responses from people on both (actually all 3) sides of the feeding issue. I'm pleased as well. Shows me that there are a lot of people out there that really care for their babies and want what is best.

Your last paragraph says it all. Regardless of what people may say or think, I'm here to learn and answer questions if needed. People will feed what they feel comfortable with be it nutrition, budget, or whatever. It's nice chatting with you though.

M

You're very courteous, Mike. I want to reply to your questions, but we've gotten a bit off topic so I'm going to send you a pm.

TCS exists because of the love its members have for their kitties. We each have our own experiences, perspectives and opinions, but we all love our furbabies.

AC

Somewhere along the way, I think it was forgotten that cats are obligate carnivores.. The whole 'too much protein = bad' is so untrue it's not even funny.

Also, in dry food, the meat at the top of the ingredients is calculated Before dehydration, so they are actually much lower on the list.

(I'm not going to directly quote all the people I want to respond to because that would make my post way too ridiculously long.)

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=52
Saitento is right. Not all people (or cats) who eat junk are going to suffer from it. Genetics play a huge role in how a cat's body reacts in inadequate food. You may have a cat that is 'fine' for many many years, or you may have a cat that suffers right away. You have to determine if that risk is really worth it to you. If saving a few cents a day is worth the risk that your cat may become deathly sick from it.
I also do not have to portion control my cat now that he is on canned. And he is still safely losing half an ounce a day.

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=47
True, true and.. true.
Dry food leaves a yucky residue and unless you have a Lot of cats, that food is going to sit out in the open air and roll around in the cat drool until it is actually eaten by another cat. Gross.
Once again, obligate carnivores. You can't compare giving vegetable proteins to a cat like you can a human. Do you see any cats in the wild needing to have the PH of their pee tested? They eat Only meat and guess what? They thrive on it.
True again. Those veggies are added because (most) of us have been hard-wired to know that veggies are good and healthy (even if we don't eat them ourselves) so when we see them we go 'ohhh, this must be healthy!' even though cats don't eat or need fruits or vegetables.

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=17
Not true at all. If fed a diet high in carbs (say... Hills Prescription Diet) you can portion control allllll you want and the cat is still going to gain weight. Which is why you see so many stories of 'My cat is on diet food, but he's still gaining weight! What's going on? :B'
Also, there are these things called petsitters and food bowls with ice in them, so even if you are on vacation is no excuse to not feed wet.

#2 They don't have 'target PH levels'. As long as they are getting enough water (aka from wet food), their bladders stay nice and flushed out.
#3 No. They can't. They are strictly carnivores. And PALEASE don't get into the whole 'they aren't dying from it.' You may not 'die' from eating only McDonald's, but that doesn't mean it's even the slightest bit okay for you. People who feed vegetarian to cats need to unscrew their heads and put them back on the right way.
#4 And no, not all wet foods have peas or potatoes or rice in them. I can name to you many wet foods that have nothing but meat in them.

You can't just stop feeding yourself if you can't feed healthily because you would die. But there is a huge difference between feeding yourself, and feeding another being who can't feed themselves. It's no different than a baby. If you can't afford to feed your baby right, take them to the doctor and clothe them, well, you shouldn't have a baby. I'm not saying you have to feed them organic or anything, but if all you can afford to feed them is McDonald's and beans (or dry by-product food for cats), then you shouldn't have one.
Now, there IS a difference between rescuing a cat from death and only being able to feed them low quality dry and going out and Buying a cat and then saying you can only feed it low-quality dry. The first is understandable, the second is just irresponsible, IMHO.

Not irrelevant. Especially since you keep saying that cats need veggies in their diets because 'high protein will throw off their PH levels'.

Yes I do. He gets food whenever he wants. There is always something out for him, and when I feed him, I put down as much as he wants.

The food you feed is not 'special'. All dry food has bacteria, and all air carries some moisture with it, so unless your cats eat all that 10 lbs of food in a few days, it is still slowly rotting and getting stale inside that container.

Feral cats don't live that long because
A: They have lost some of the instincts their wild counterparts had.
B: FIV and FELv are rampant among feral cat colonies, causing many early deaths.
C: City rats and birds are much more infested with diseases as well, passing them on to the cats.
D: City life is hard, they have to watch out for cars and people who will shoot and poison them.

If you are going to compare to wild counterparts, at least do it properly.
Serval: 10 years
Caracal: 12 years
Jungle cat (Felis chaus): up to 20 years
Colocolo: 9-16 years
Geoffrey's Cat: 18 years

Are You not getting that there are wet foods that Don't have peas or potatoes in them? For every example I give you, you basically ignore it and ramble about something else. =/
'Veggies do bump urine PH, blahblah' - In Humans. Cats don't need their PH's bumped.

Wet food can be left out for a few hours and be Fine. Plus since you know nothing about my life, you wouldn't know that the majority of the time, I'm here all day. Food gets either refrigerated and then rehydrated for later, or dumped out and replaced with fresh food. What now Mister?

Cereal is a horrible example to compare to because.. *drum roll* it doesn't contain meat! Meat can not sit out for days and be just fine.

Because does matter.
Once again, you are completely ignoring the examples I gave you in favor of rambling. Why would I need studies to show how long these species live?? I looked up their lifespans which are supported by findings in, well, how long they live. What more do you need??

All 6 flavors of Before Grain, By Nature chicken, Evo, and several other brands are all grain, potato, pea, etc free. And you can get all of them besides By Nature at Petco.

*facepalm* Dish A is put out. Grim eats. Dish A is put in fridge. Dish B is put out. Dish B is put in fridge, Dish A is put out. Not that complicated.

Beef jerky is Quite different from kibble. Also 'shelf life' applies to air-tight sealed food.

The Evo wet foods do not, no. I made sure to look up the ingredients before I said anything, and Evo wet does Not contain any vegetables.
I also never said they wouldn't be. I have just been disagreeing/trying to prove wrong things you have said. .. ;P

I never said that either. I said they had to be sealed from air. Meaning bag clipped shut/rolled up/in a sealed plastic container, etc. Not sitting inside a dispenser. Which is not air-tight because as the food goes down, the container fills with air.

http://www.petfooddirect.com/product...anned-Cat-Food
http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1664
http://www.petfooddirect.com/product...anned-Cat-Food
http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1711

I was talking about the 95% kind. They are all free of any peas, carrots, potatoes, etc.

Also, come on. Guar gum? A veggie? It's a powder that barely resembles the seed it used to come from and only is there as a thickening agent. Be reasonable.

And no.. that's montif or whatever the fudge his name is. Please pay attention, it's not making you look very smart.

I'm closing this thread. If you 2 wish to continue your arguments, please do so by PM.