Grain Free bad for male cats?

Nekochan said:

My cats need to be on grain free due to food allergies, and several of them refuse to eat canned food so they are only on dry food. I do offer canned food and am trying to get them to eat it but as I said they refuse... So far none of them have had any UTI or related type of issues and they've been on grain free foods nearly their whole lives, they are 4 years old. 
Any suggestions, besides trying to get them to eat canned which I have been doing already?

Click to expand...

BryanV21 said:

do they like drinking from running faucets, as many cats do? If so, then you could try a fountain instead of a water bowl. Or you could get free samples of Honest Kitchen Prowl, which is a dehydrated food that must be mixed with warm water before serving. 

Click to expand...

LDG said:

Grain-free foods are NOT bad for male cats.
It has been the experience of some people that their crystal-prone kitties had problems - some with grains, some with grain-free foods. But the issue isn't the lack of grain - the issue is the MAGNESIUM content and the genetic proclivity of each individual cat. I haven't seen this discussed anywhere in this thread, but it is the MINERAL content of the food that is the issue and its impact on urine pH.
Many grain-free foods contain fish - and this is a problem for many cats with crystal problems. So the ingredient issue for some cats may have nothing to do with the fact that a food is grain-free, but that it has fish in it. !!!
Of course, genetics and tendencies also play a role in what happens.   

Click to expand...

SevenWonders said:

Some of you might remember my "Peas? Potato Starch? Fish Meal? Yikes!" thread from this past March where I was trying to make an educated decision on which Grain Free Dry to use to supplement my Kitties diet. After a lot of careful consideration, I went with Innova Prime, because I felt that peas were the lesser evil
among the three ingredients I was concerned with.

Well, after a few years on Blue Buffalo Dry (with Barley and Brown Rice) followed by a few years on Blue Wilderness Dry (Grain Free) without a single health issue (they ate Blue Buffalo canned food about once per week during those years) I decided to do my best for my Kitties and switch them to 100% Grain free.

After 3 months on the Grain Free plan,
(Daily cans of GF Wellness, Evo 95% or By Nature 95%, plus snacks of GF Dry)
one of my boys (Boo, 5 y/o) developed a severe Urinary Tract issue.  :doh3:

Fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time and noticed that the poor little guy could only squeeze out about 3 drips of pee, so I immediately gave him his favorite canned food loaded with a lot of warm water, then went out and bought some GNC Ultra Mega Urinary Tract Support Gel (mainly DL-Methionine and Cranberry Extract) and dosed him several times and it began to clear up late that night, and got better and better over the next 2 days.

I assumed that it had to be due to the Innova Prime, so I mixed the rest of it in with the Ferals' Dry food,
and bought Evo Turkey & Chicken Dry to replace it. Fortunately, there have been no problems since that time.

However, I feel like this must be more complicated than just Minerals and Fish -
both the Blue Buffalo and Evo contain Fish Meal, while the Innova Prime does not.
Am I missing something?

As for those of us who (for various reasons) "must" supplement our Kitties' diets with some dry food,
are we better off to use Innova Cat & Kitten or Blue Buffalo which contain Brown Rice and Barley as opposed to Grain Free Dry?  :dk:

Click to expand...

Kattiekitty said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckeye204 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, so if I decide to change my male cat's dry food from a grain free to one with grain, which one would be the best? I really don't want him to eat junk.

Hiya,

This is a pretty heated topic! I think it all comes down to what works for each cat. We all want to give a perfect diet and hope that we can avoid health issues in the long run but sometimes what works for one cat, will cause another to get a massive UTI. It really sucks and shouldn't be that hard.

As to Buckeye, I remember posting on your posts and know that you settled on TOTW which in my experience is a good food. I have a male and female cat. No UTI history so far but I make sure they get canned food twice a day even if it is the cheaper fancy feast or friskies. They get the moisture from it which is important. I also feed a mixture of grain free and grain inclusive food for that exact fear of uti with my male. I use a mix of TOTW, Blue Wilderness, BG, Acana ect with a grain inclusive. For that I use Blue Spa Select, Felidae, Natural Balance, Chicken Soup ect. One grain Free and One Grain in and so far no issues. I also have a Drinkwell cat Fountain and several water bowls around the house that they both drink from so I know they are getting moisture from other places too.

In my work experience as a vet tech for the past 12 years, some of the worst chronic UTI's weren't even from grain free foods. They were usually fed dry only and something low quality like Friskies, Purina Cat Chow ect. We also had a disproportinate amount of Orange tabbys be UTI cats. Probably because most orangies are male I guess.I have and orange and white tabby so that stays at the back of my mind.

Here is an interesting fact though. One of the worst UTI's we had was a 7 yo female Siamese. She would get them like clockwork every few months. It was terrible and what made it worse was that she was a lion in cat's clothing. She hated the vet and even bit her owner while there because she insisted on holding her for vaccines

. She never did that again. YEah Selene, that was her name was ther worst chronic UTI cat. Even on Hills CD she would get stones. They never became life threatening as they didn't get big and could be managed but still. The worst acute case I've seen was a cute little 2 yo tabby male. He came in for not peeing for a day and a half

(stupid owners). They actually thought he was sick for something else but we felt the softball sized bladder on palpation and knew he was blocked. When we put him under he had so much grit and stones blocking his urethra that we couldn't pass a catheter the usual way. We tried for about 2 hours of flushing to get a little farther and then get blocked again. We called the owner and they couldn't afford the stone surgery so elected for euthanasia unfortunately. On necropsy we found a huge stone stuck half way in the narrow part of the urethra. His bladder was filled with sand debris as well as several larger stones. I also remember that his diet was Friskies Seafood medley or something to that effect as the owner brought a bag of it with her because we were keeping him. Very sad.

I guess this shows that while females get UTI's too and can get really bad, the males are what become critical if not taken care of promptly. Both these cats were fed the crappy stuff. No cat so far that is a chronic UTI kitty has been grainfree that we've seen. Most of the owners here don't even know what grain free is.

Click to expand...

bluebo said:

Was the cat on friskies wet or dry?? Just curious...

Click to expand...

Willowy said:

Since they said the owner brought a BAG of the food, I'm guessing dry.

Click to expand...

lapislazuli said:

My other cat Nemo also developed UTI a few days ago, bloody pee and all. I now have them both on Royal Canin S/O and have completely stopped the grain free(for now). Also supplementing with can food + apple cider vinegar mixed with water every few days. They're both peeing fine now.

found out about apple cider vinegar as a UTI remedy here http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/acv_for_cats.html

Click to expand...

otto said:

Feeding the SO and adding vinegar is over kill, and you are likely to mess up the pH balance of their urine terribly. The SO is designed to keep the urine at a healthy 6.5 PH. (it is full of junk, but it does work.)Adding an acidifier will bring the pH too low causing oxalate stones to form.
Feed a canned diet. If a urine acidifier is still needed after putting the cats on canned food, then use it. But you will have to have their urine tested at leasrt once every three months if using an acidifier, to prevent oxalate.
I would not advise feeding dry corn laden SO for very long. It will ruin their digestion. If you want to stick with the SO, please feed the canned only. The dry SO, any dry, is bad news.

Click to expand...

LDG said:

And my Uncle lived to be 101, and he drank, smoke, and ate bacon and eggs daily and heaps of fried foods his entire life. Again, many kitties have lived long, healthy lives on kibble. But this doesn't mean it's GOOD for cats. It means they lived long healthy lives despite the food.

Click to expand...

Night Wing said:

Fast forward to the present. I tried feeding him some canned wet Natural Instinct Chicken grain free food. He liked it for about two weeks and then all of a sudden, he wouldn't touch it. Switched to the canned wet Blue Buffalo Wild Delights Chicken and he liked that.....for about two weeks and then wouldn't touch it anymore. Since he's now 15 years old, I don't try to get him to like canned wet food since I don't want to put any undo stress on him. Tried raw food again and he still won't touch it. Just sniffs at it and then walks away.

My take on cat food. Long story short. He's never had a UTI infection. No loss of hair issues. No itching problems. No bowl problems. This past July his blood workup was great for his kidneys, liver and anything else the vet did. Conclusion, every cat is different when it comes to food.

Oh, for those who say my male Manx cat is an oddity, my wife's female LynxPoint Siamese lived for 19 1/2 years.....all on dry grain free kibble. She, like my male cat, never liked raw or canned wet food either.

Click to expand...

SevenWonders said:

Some of you might remember my "Peas? Potato Starch? Fish Meal? Yikes!" thread from this past March
where I was trying to make an educated decision on which Grain Free Dry to use to supplement my Kitties diet.
After a lot of careful consideration, I went with Innova Prime, because I felt that peas were the lesser evil
among the three ingredients I was concerned with.

Well, after a few years on Blue Buffalo Dry (with Barley and Brown Rice) followed by a few years on Blue Wilderness Dry (Grain Free) without a single health issue (they ate Blue Buffalo canned food about once per week during those years) I decided to do my best for my Kitties and switch them to 100% Grain free.

After 3 months on the Grain Free plan,
(Daily cans of GF Wellness, Evo 95% or By Nature 95%, plus snacks of GF Dry)
one of my boys (Boo, 5 y/o) developed a severe Urinary Tract issue.  :doh3:

Fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time and noticed that the poor little guy could only squeeze out about 3 drips of pee, so I immediately gave him his favorite canned food loaded with a lot of warm water, then went out and bought some GNC Ultra Mega Urinary Tract Support Gel (mainly DL-Methionine and Cranberry Extract) and dosed him several times and it began to clear up late that night, and got better and better over the next 2 days.

I assumed that it had to be due to the Innova Prime, so I mixed the rest of it in with the Ferals' Dry food,
and bought Evo Turkey & Chicken Dry to replace it. Fortunately, there have been no problems since that time.

However, I feel like this must be more complicated than just Minerals and Fish -
both the Blue Buffalo and Evo contain Fish Meal, while the Innova Prime does not.
Am I missing something?

As for those of us who (for various reasons) "must" supplement our Kitties' diets with some dry food,
are we better off to use Innova Cat & Kitten or Blue Buffalo which contain Brown Rice and Barley as opposed to Grain Free Dry?  :dk:

Click to expand...

Minka said:

The problem is there is no way to know whether it is a coincidence or not. But I like to think of it this way: male wild/feral cats don't have problems with urinary infections, so why would domestic cats (still obligate carnivores) need grain in their diets?

Click to expand...

NutroMike said:

Minka said:

The problem is there is no way to know whether it is a coincidence or not. But I like to think of it this way: male wild/feral cats don't have problems with urinary infections, so why would domestic cats (still obligate carnivores) need grain in their diets?

Click to expand...

Interesting statement.  Do you have any cites where "male wild/feral cats don't have problems with urinary infections"?  Is this a known fact from some type of research or conjecture from sources.  I don't see how it's possible to "know" this information without some type of very controlled environment.  I would be really interested in reading this data if you have time to post the link.

Click to expand...

Minka said:

Wild animals don't get the kind of diseases that domestics do. Wild animals die of injuries or heart failure, not diabetes, cancer and the other kinds of ailments common in housepets. There was a study on feral cats I read not too long ago that talked about the incidence of all these types of disease as well as the makeup of their diet. I'll have to poke around and see if I can find it....

Click to expand...

strange_wings said:

With the exception of Sherman, my house cats are eating NB duck and pea and TOTW - with 2/3rds of their daily food as wet.

What options are there for oatmeal? It's the only grain I haven't tried on Sho. Corn, wheat, barley, and rice get vomited back up. And what is there for a non fish, no chicken, and no turkey food? Tomas get extremely watery diarrhea from chicken and turkey. Siri also seems to have a sensitive stomach, but I haven't figured out what causes it - shes vomited grain foods (corn) and TOTW. So far no one (beside Sherman) has had a problem with crystals.

And just to add, Sho is 8. The NB has 30% protein, which is what I see most foods that are marked as senior foods at (with a few being higher than that).

Click to expand...

Kattiekitty said:

I have worked at various veterinary clinics as a technician ... I would tell owners with male cats to be careful with grain frees because of UTI issues.

Click to expand...