Grain Free bad for male cats? - Page 2

likely a bit of all of the above ... but mostly on the wrong % of bone for a cat with that issue

I'm really confused after reading this thread.

My cat had struvite crystals 5 years ago. Ironically, I think it was because I tried to switch him to canned from purina one - Iam's canned food, chicken flavor. He'd been eating that for about a month when he got the crystals.

After ~$1000 in vet bills, I did some reading, and discovered that people thought the grains in kibble would raise the urinary pH. Is this true, or is this 'old' incorrect information from 5 years ago? Rather than put my cat on expensive prescription food, doubly difficult since we had multiple cats, I started buying grain-free kibble. Started with Innova Evo, and eventually settled on TotW. He ate TotW for 3 years, and has never had any health problems in the past 5 years.

Recently, he turned up his nose at TotW (other cat was still eating it). I'm wondering if the last of the bag just went stale or something. He got really skinny, and I decided it was time to try some new grain-free kibble. Both my cats will eat Before Grain salmon and Indigo Moon solid gold. Former 36% protein; latter 46%. Now I'm scared that anything I try, with or without grain, will give him struvite crystals. Ack! Can someone clarify this for me?

I would love to move to canned but this is not financially possible for me (I have cut my living expenses as low as I can get them, and this year might be the first in awhile that I will actually not be drawing down on savings).

This thread is so full of misinformation, it makes my head hurt. And it shouldn't be this hard to feed our furry friends... we shouldn't have to be ace investigators or feline nutritionists just to go shopping for Fluffy's flippin' dinner!!

As obligate carnivores, a cat's natural diet is the whole bodies of prey animals and insects, so anyone claiming that a "high-protein" diet is detrimental to a cat's health doesn't know what they're talking about, plain and simple.

Kibble, on the other hand, is an entirely species-inappropriate food item for cats (just like it would be for birds of prey, sharks or snakes). I've never seen this claim that manufacturers add grains to kibble to raise PH and, by doing so, lower the chances of urinary tract issues, anywhere but here on TCS, but urinary tract issues are just one of the many problems kibble causes - with or without grains.

Since you aren't able to feed canned, Kat, my best recommendation for you would be to take a look at feline-nutrition.org, catinfo.org, or catnutrition.org to see if you can find something related to your specific question (especially the first one, the Feline Nutrition Education Society's site). All three of those sites have contact information in addition to their many articles, and I know that FNES and Cat Info do respond at least some of the time to information requests (not sure about Cat Nutrition).

Good luck!!

AC

OMG! I thought I was going insane with the problems my cat Lucas is going through and then i read all this....

Lucas has been having skin problems and I changed his food to grain free thinking it is the best for him and now I'm just too confused! I've read everywhere that grains are not supposed to be in a cat's diet, and here I'm reading they are good? I thought grains caused the urinary issues.

Lucas is doing so well with his food, I just can't think straight right now, I'm so scared of giving him something that will harm him.

I'm giving him grain free dry and also canned. If this is not good, what am I supposed to give him? This is crazyy

Please, Momto4kitties - ignore all of this misinformation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are correct; grains do NOT belong in a cat's diet. PERIOD.

Trying to find a cat food is already complicated enough, please do not let this craziness make it any worse for you. Kibble makes your cat dehydrated (among other things), and this increases the chance of urinary tract issues, however, adding grains is only going to cause more problems. TRULY!!

The solution is to avoid the processing that is the source of these issues and feed only canned (or raw if you can), preferably grain-, veggie-, fruit- and fish-free, but any canned is going to avoid the problems that come with kibble.

Feline-nutrition.org, Catinfo.org, Catnutrition.org, and, if you can get that far, Rawfedcats.org are awesome resources for honest, straightforward, detailed but easy to understand feline nutrition information. Also, the Feline Nutrition Education Society is on facebook as rawfedkitty.org (don't know why such an odd name, but they are not associated with rawfedcats.org) if you want to ask the experts some questions.

AC

I am sorry Auntie, but why do you call personal experience misinformation?
I am not saying and will not say grains are good for everything however, here is what I will say, based on what happened with Bugsy, for which I am still dealing with the consequences (as you are aware) almost a year later.
As far as UTI goes:
While Bugsy was on Dry Grain + Grain Free wet, he had no problems.
He was put into a 100% grain free diet: Developed an UTI.
Back on Dry with grains grain free wet: UTI free.

There are plenty of people with the same/similar experiences, and I think it is rather unfair to be called crazy, say that we are giving misinformation and such, when what we are doing here is posting our experiences.
Again, seems to me that this thread is being transformed into another - the only valid, good diet is raw. Fine, that is your opinion, and that's great. However, IMHO that does not discount what happened to Bugsy, Jamie (jcat's cat) or Sharky's cat, just to cite 3 cats on this thread alone.
Seems to me that the discussion here was the differences in food with grain and without grain as in wet/dry, and why.
My opinion FWIW.
Tammie, Lucas seems to have a problem with grains, so that's an entirely different thing... If my kitty had a problem with grain I would definitely try a grain free diet.... Or at least find a single grain I could feed, since he seems to not eat a whole wet diet.... On a 100% grain free, I am much more comfortable with wet only based on personal experience.

I don't discount the experiences, Carolina, not at all. I just disagree with the take-away from those experiences. Especially when that take-away causes more confusion in an already insanely - for some, even painfully - confusing topic. As a professional who dedicates a large portion of personal time to helping cat owners, I find that profoundly distressing. I hate seeing people struggle to find a decent food for their cats; it just shouldn't be this frustrating, difficult and drama-laden endeavor.

This thread questions a basic tenant of feline nutrition - that cats, as obligate carnivores, have no need of and shouldn't be fed any type of grain. If it were only kibble feeders reading and responding to it, I wouldn't have posted, but there are folks who feed canned who are panicking thinking that this basic tenant, which they trusted to be true and upon which they've based at least some of their cats' diet, is suddenly, maybe, not so true after all.

And that's the part I'm trying to address. I'm just trying to help clear some of that confusion away.

To whit - it isn't the lack of grain that's the problem, it's the kibble. The solution isn't to add a product that doesn't belong in the cat's diet, it's to switch to a more digestible and feline-appropriate product altogether; for most, that's canned.

And you're not crazy, Carolina, you're a good cat mom doing the best you can under some pretty doggone tight constrictions. But then, of course, you don't need me to tell you that!

AC

.............................

Actually, I meant just about the opposite, as in professional business environment (global defense company; I'm ex-military) 45 - 50 hour weeks. Although I was trying to indicate that the depth of my dismay was in part because my personal time was limited, the truth is I'd probably feel just as passionate about this topic if I was a free-lance writer with all the time in the world on my hands.

Unfortunately, canned food feeders are missing that point and are becoming concerned.

On all of these points, we are in full agreement.

<<<HUGS>>> I'm so sorry, Carolina.

I don't know if you've tried this, or if it's even on the table for you today, but Whole Life produces some freeze-dried meat treats and both the chicken and the cod are one hundred percent irresistible to all six of my cats. I sprinkle either of these lightly over those meats and organs they occasionally turn away from (kidney sometimes, for instance) and the cats always eat the foods (I think the act of licking the treat off the meat or organ causes them to forget they didn't want to eat it in the first place and once the sprinkles are all gone, they just keep on eating)... maybe they would be helpful to you, too?

I feel for you, Carolina. I know we are miles and miles apart, but if there is ever anything I can do for you or your kitties, please let me know.

AC

Hello my friends. I just did'n't know Carolina ond others have had bad experiences feeding grain free dry to their cats. I've read a lot and never read that online. I only found good things and good experiences. It is good to know you had that experience Carolina.

I just don't know what to do anymore. Lucas eats some canned, the Blue wilderness duck grain free. He is eating just a little every afternoon, but a little is better than nothing. I just wish I knew for sure that Lucas has a problem with grains, I'm just not sure.

I'm spending a lot of money in his food because I have to order it online, I can't travel 3 hours to Petsmart to get the food so I have to order online and the shipping is so expensive. I just want to maek sure I'm helping him, not harming him, Lucas doesn't need to have urinary problems along with the other problems he has.

Tammy

I'm going to join the few (or am I the only one) who has fed grain free dry + grain free wet to my boys for their whole lives and they haven't had problems (yet). They are 2,5-4 years old.
However my now already deceased Casper who I got when he was 1,5 years old had been eating grain dry + randomly grain free/not grain free wet foods before I got him and he had struvite crystals and UTI. He was treated for it and put on vet food and was fine after that until his death (which was unrelated to food/UTIs).

Is there a difference between neuters and studs with this 'no grain free' thing? Casper wasn't neutered, neither is Kuura. Utu and Tomu are.

Boy, now I am really confused. I had Woody on SD and wanted a better dry food for him so I switched him to TOTW. I thought I was doing the right thing. I mix it with Blue Buffalo because I already had a bag of it. I always thought grain free is better. Now what do I do? I was going to put him on Nutro Max but after reading posts on this site I decided on Blue and TOTW. So, since he is a male cat, should I go to a dry with grains, and if so, which brand. I want him on a good food and am going to try wet food again. I will probably try either TOTW or Blue Buffalo wet.

Ok just to be clear and repeat what's already been said, people have had issues with their cats if fed grain free dry only. So if fed some sort of wet diet (canned or raw) with or without the dry, people have seen little to no issue?

In my experience, like as a licensed Veterinarian Technician I have seen problems with male cats and a grain free diet. Again this is not from personal experience, but "professional" experience. If any of you want to know what "medical issues" I have seen in male cats just let me know.

The reason I have not seen it from personal experience I feel is two fold, the first is all my domestic cats (three) are female. The second is that my male cat is an F3 Savannah and he eats dry Evo and TOTW and I would assume has a different metabolism/metabolic needs then a pure domestic cat. He sure acts different then a "normal" domestic . But I do give him about twenty pieces (literally counted) of Purina dry food a day. Just to be on the safe side .

No, that's not the case... My cat was on Grain Free Dry and grain free wet when he had his UTI.

Grain dry + grain free wet = no problems so far.

Other cats on this thread had the same experience for what I can see....
The grain free dry seems to be the problem, even when fed wet.

Ah well then I guess I got confused somewhere in there lol.

BTW, my cats never had a problem with grain free wet.... If you choose to go grain free, I would say go wet only, otherwise I rather be on the safe side

Mine has been on grain free on and off for about 4 years now. On and off because we've had some financial hiccups where we resort back to grain. I'd love to feed raw but he doesn't want anything to do with it. My future cats will be fed raw though.

Ok, so if I decide to change my male cat's dry food from a grain free to one with grain, which one would be the best? I really don't want him to eat junk.

I will do that too and I will feed him wet also. Since my cat is eating blue Wilderness duck and he loves it, I was thinking changing it to Blue buffalo with grain to see how he does on it.

At least with Blue Buffalo, we know our kitties will be getting a good food, even with grain. I checked the bag of Blue Buffalo Indoor and it has, brown rice, barley and oats. It is good for urinary health and hairballs.

Hiya,
This is a pretty heated topic! I think it all comes down to what works for each cat. We all want to give a perfect diet and hope that we can avoid health issues in the long run but sometimes what works for one cat, will cause another to get a massive UTI. It really sucks and shouldn't be that hard.
As to Buckeye, I remember posting on your posts and know that you settled on TOTW which in my experience is a good food. I have a male and female cat. No UTI history so far but I make sure they get canned food twice a day even if it is the cheaper fancy feast or friskies. They get the moisture from it which is important. I also feed a mixture of grain free and grain inclusive food for that exact fear of uti with my male. I use a mix of TOTW, Blue Wilderness, BG, Acana ect with a grain inclusive. For that I use Blue Spa Select, Felidae, Natural Balance, Chicken Soup ect. One grain Free and One Grain in and so far no issues. I also have a Drinkwell cat Fountain and several water bowls around the house that they both drink from so I know they are getting moisture from other places too.
In my work experience as a vet tech for the past 12 years, some of the worst chronic UTI's weren't even from grain free foods. They were usually fed dry only and something low quality like Friskies, Purina Cat Chow ect. We also had a disproportinate amount of Orange tabbys be UTI cats. Probably because most orangies are male I guess.I have and orange and white tabby so that stays at the back of my mind.
Here is an interesting fact though. One of the worst UTI's we had was a 7 yo female Siamese. She would get them like clockwork every few months. It was terrible and what made it worse was that she was a lion in cat's clothing. She hated the vet and even bit her owner while there because she insisted on holding her for vaccines. She never did that again. YEah Selene, that was her name was ther worst chronic UTI cat. Even on Hills CD she would get stones. They never became life threatening as they didn't get big and could be managed but still. The worst acute case I've seen was a cute little 2 yo tabby male. He came in for not peeing for a day and a half (stupid owners). They actually thought he was sick for something else but we felt the softball sized bladder on palpation and knew he was blocked. When we put him under he had so much grit and stones blocking his urethra that we couldn't pass a catheter the usual way. We tried for about 2 hours of flushing to get a little farther and then get blocked again. We called the owner and they couldn't afford the stone surgery so elected for euthanasia unfortunately. On necropsy we found a huge stone stuck half way in the narrow part of the urethra. His bladder was filled with sand debris as well as several larger stones. I also remember that his diet was Friskies Seafood medley or something to that effect as the owner brought a bag of it with her because we were keeping him. Very sad.
I guess this shows that while females get UTI's too and can get really bad, the males are what become critical if not taken care of promptly. Both these cats were fed the crappy stuff. No cat so far that is a chronic UTI kitty has been grainfree that we've seen. Most of the owners here don't even know what grain free is.