Help! Charlie is FIV+

Sweets and I are keeping paws and fingers crossed today for your little boy

Marina

He's such a good boy, our Charlie Brown tabby! No complaints being poked and prodded, having blood taken - for both the Western Blot (FIV confirmation) and regular full blood work.

I did ask about being able to hear him breathing sometimes. He isn't congested and has no signs of anything in his lungs, no sign of asthma, so the conclusion is that most likely he had a respiratory illness as a kitten that damaged his turbinates. Nothing that affects anything other than him sounding a little "nasaly" at times.

BTW, before we went, I was able to clip his claws in two go-rounds with a few treats (one full paw each time) - he didn't get bitey or hissy.

The vet has worked with him from the very beginning, and is amazed at his transformation. He is just a love bug sweetie now!

We'll get blood work results tomorrow; FIV confirmation in 5-7 days, so before Jul 4 weekend.

We did discuss the option of removing his canine teeth if necessary (depending upon how intros go) vs putting him back outside... she is going to ask on whatever vet forum, and will get back to us on that (I was asking about actual statistical probability of passing FIV to Tuxedo specifically because of his compromised immune system) if we have the canines removed, but she's had a number of people do it before, and definitely does and has recommended it over killing him or putting him back out.

FIV kitties tend to have a lot of problems with their teeth over time - many end up toothless. No reason to pull them all before they need to be (though he'll need annual dentals at a minimum) - the canines are the only real threat. The disease is passed via deep tissue wounds only.

We'll see. Hopefully it won't come to that - but we're in such a small space with a kitty with a compromised immune system - so it's nice to know it's probably an option if we need to consider it.

I am smiling now, picturing Charlie Brown little ham at the vets . It's amazing how neutering changed him. I am curious if he got to see other kitties there while you were waiting and how he reacted if at all...

Our Sammy has always been a heavy breather and a snorer (he snores as if he plays music, it's hilarious). We had him scoped when he had a dental and his left nasal passage it's much narrower than his right one. He also has herpes so I wonder if these two are connected.

It makes sense that kitties with FIV have teeth problems since their bodies can not fight infections...

Yes, it's comforting to know about this option. Give him some love from us please
Marina

I don't know about the nasal passage and herpes... when we rescued Flowerbelle she had herpes invade so badly we ended up having to have one of her eyes removed, and she was very young (we fought for months to save it, but in the end having it removed - well - we wish we'd made the decision sooner. Boy was she happy and her energy went through the roof!). But even though having been so young with herpes so bad, she isn't nasal at all - doesn't snore or anything. In fact, she's never had a flare up (knock wood).

But THANK YOU for bringing that up - because that's something else I need to ask about! We know she's carrying the virus - so what does that mean - if anything - to Charlie?

Hmm..that is a good point. Ask your vet about putting Charlie on daily l-lysine. Even if he doesn't have herpes, the l-lysine helps support and strengthen the immune system.

I'd never heard about removing the canines of FIV cats, to help them find loving inside homes. Very interesting!

I actually asked about removing all his teeth in order to avoid murdering him. The vet was the one that said the only teeth we needed to worry about were the canines. Makes sense though given that the disease is only transmitted via deep penetrating bite wounds (apparently must be deep tissue).

And we use an L-lysine supplement with all the kitties anyway. I guess I ought to go ahead and start him on it. Didn't even occur to me - I'll probably alternate with his probiotic.

Anyway, three things.

First:

Any time I've brought his brush over here, they sniff it for like a second, then want brushes. So I let the hair accumulate in the brush, and tonight grabbed a wad of it to bring just the hair over here.

Shelly sniffed it thoroughly, shoved his nose in it, then headbumped it and rubbed his cheek on it.

Ming Loy sniffed it and looked upset it wasn't food.

Tuxedo sniffed it for a few seconds, and headbumped it.

Flowerbelle once again looked at me with that "like I care?" look.

Billy sniffed it like Shel, shoved his nose in it, then rubbed his cheek on it.

I can't find Spooky, she must be under the bed. (Our bed isn't open on the sides - it's a platform that lifts up for storage space. We don't store anything under there other than cat beds - we cut holes in all three sides so they can get in and out of there).

Lazlo sniffed it for a few seconds then ignored it and me. He's the one I'm most worried about.

Second:

I brought another thoroughly "soaked" Charlie-scented mat over earlier this afternoon. Rather than taking it around to everyone, I just set it on the couch. The only ones I've seen "interact" with it have been Shel, Bill, and Laz.

Billy was on his way to the back of the couch, hopped up on it, noticed it, sniffed for a sec, then went on his way.

Shelly was tossing a water jug ring around, flung it up there, jumped to grab it - and noticed the smell. He stopped to inspect it for a good while, then lay down and rolled around on it.

Lazlo was chasing a mouse he'd tossed over there after dinner, and stopped like he'd run into a brick wall. He stayed tail-up, but thoroughly inspected it. I ran to grab treats and a brush, and I put down a couple of treats, and then brushed him, and told him how much fun it's gonna be to have Charlie over here. I also did the usual - Charlie is homeless like he was, and I don't need him to like Charlie, I just need him to be OK with Charlie sharing this space.

Finally....

I went over for a bit of the evening - and Charlie has a wound on the back of his ear that he did not have earlier! It is a bare spot that is red with some blood, but not bloody, if that makes sense. I would think it looked rubbed raw - but it has a very straight edge! It is about 1/4" square. I've got the camera for when I go back over there - but I cannot figure out where or how it happened!

It never occured to me to ask the vet what to do if he gets an injury - which I need to know in case one of our cats scratches him or something...

At least she's gonna call with his blood work results tomorrow, so I'll be able to ask. I'm glad she cares as much as she does, or I'd feel like a real PIA with all the questions.

But what's bothering me the most is - how did it happen?????????????????

The wound: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

I love your description of their reactions You have got some little comedians overthere

Lazlo's reaction does not surprise me though. Have you tried to put Charlie's scent on his head? Maybe repeat this experiment a few times a day (more than 3 or 4) just for Lazlo and follow with a session of attention and luvin just for him. Also the same for Charlie.

A big hug to you because I know you are worried about Charlie's wound, I replied on the other thread about it!

Marina

Yeah, we've really been focusing on Lazlo. He never had much of a problem with new intros until Billy (but the last number of intros were all female). And for all I know, it's that Billy is SO submissive, Lazlo decided it was just fun to push him around.

Tuxie, Flowerbelle, and Shelly have never had a problem with new intros - the only reason we worry about Tuxie is because when he feels well, he's a fast-moving nut, and he gets aggressive sometimes - not to be mean, but when he doesn't want a kitty near him, he doesn't want a kitty near him. Of course - we also find him curled up with Shel, Flowerbelle, and Ming Loy - but he can just as easily change his mind and wake up and bop them to get out of there.

Spooky... always had a problem with new intros - but they were all female. Billy (the latest) she had no issue with, so we don't know what to expect. Took her a year to get over Ming Loy.

And Ming Loy was 2nd to last... she hissed at Bill for a few days, then seemed just fine, so who knows. We worry a little bit about her, because she's got CH, so is very floppy, and uses the cats as support to stay standing up if they're there. Took them a while to get used to it, so that's gonna be interesting.

Billy - he was the last one brought inside. But he was a feral that was insanely cat friendly - to the point where he's willing to constantly get bopped by Lazlo, as 1 1/2 years later, he still tries to headbump him several times a day.

...and I really thank everyone again for all your support and encouragement. As you can tell, we completely obssess.

How many days before Charlie's move? I dunno if I would call it obsession.....I center my cats' lives around mine. They ARE my life. Is there any other way?

Originally Posted by otto

How many days before Charlie's move? I dunno if I would call it obsession.....I center my cats' lives around mine. They ARE my life. Is there any other way?

Click to expand...

We probably start bringing him over here to isolated areas without the other kitties this afternoon or this weekend. Gary's not quite ready, so we'll see.

And yes, our lives completely revolve around all the kitties. This FIV+ positive thing is just new for us, and we were so set on never bringing another cat over here, so it's just a little extra obsession.

Like Otto said, there is no other way. Our kitties are our life and we are theirs. No obsession, just a deep deep love for them...

This weekend is a big weekend for you!
Marina

Charlie's blood work is normal! She said that sometimes with FIV kitties they've got a low white cell count - but that is NOT the case with our Charlie Brown! If she didn't know he had FIV, she'd say he was a really, healthy, normal kitty! Well - in fact - he is a really healthy, normal kitty - he just happens to carry the FIV virus.

She thinks what we did with his ear is fine - as was pointed out, he had no issues with the surgery, recovery, or ear tip healing, so a small problem like this - just clean it - she's interested in info on the CellerateRX, and just keep an eye on it.

We don't need to worry about if he gets scratched by our cats - just keep an eye on anything - and he was vaccinated against the herpes virus and its effective, so no worries re: Flowerbelle carrying it. Wouldn't hurt to put him on L-lysine as we have all the other cats on it, and it does help boost the immune system.

We have an appointment to take him to Tuxedo's vet on Wednesday next week. Gives us time to get his file copied and sent over there - may even have the Western Blot results by then. Ming Loy's gonna go for her annual too. Charlie will have a travel companion (separate carriers though LOL).

And Marina, I think you asked how he reacted to other kitties at the vet - there weren't any this visit. The last visit there were a bunch meowing in crates while we were waiting - he just looked around. He really doesn't do much but hunker down when he's in the crate. This last time there was a very large, very scared doggie in the waiting room. Charlie seemed very interested in him, actually, and not scared at all. I think if we had 7 dogs, not cats, it might be an easier intro.

thanks for the happy update! you said five days for the other test? (the FIV one)

Excellent news, now we have to wait for the other results

So Tuxi's vet is specialising in autoimmune diseases? I forgot why you are taking Charlie there too.

How cute about the big doggie

Marina

While I love the local vet - this is where we got involved with rescue, and they've done a LOT for us and the ferals and those we needed to get fostered and adopted out, and I don't want to detract from how great they've been to us and our cats. But the vet that owns the place almost let Flowerbelle die because he never did a full fecal, and sent her home with us full of lung worm. She had a cough, and Gary wanted a second opinion, so we went to an e-vet, and it was one of those "everything happens for a reason" kind of things.

The "2nd opinion vet" is FABULOUS. Stan just happened to be on duty during the e-vet hours we showed up. And he just has an instinct for animals. It was our first appointment with him ever, we told him Flowerbelle's rescue story - he used one of those little thingies to get a small poop sample from her - and came running into the room and said, you are NOT going to believe this! Gary went to look at the slide - the vet had never seen a sample so packed with parasites, ever. They hadn't had a case of lung worm I think during his practice there (which was at that time like 15 years or something) - it took them a while to figure out what parasite it was. But she was drowning from the lung worm, and basically had one or two days to live. !!!!!

Now we're seeing a different vet (she's been there 5 or 6 years, so she started working there while we didn't live down this way) at the local vet, and she seems incredibly knowledgeable and thorough... but we just have that level of "comfortability" (if that's a word) with Tuxie's vet... because when Tuxie got sick, we went to the local vet here first. His reaction was FeLV or something and started him on chemo without KNOWING - and that made the problem Tuxie had MUCH worse. The only reason we ran there was because it is 10 min vs. 45, and Stan (Tuxie's FABULOUS vet) was on vacation. Tuxie seemed to get worse, not improve, so as soon as Stan was back, we flew over there. Tuxie had a mysterious disease - and Stan sent us to a specialist, he had bone marrow aspirations and such to figure out what type of anemia he had - but no one could figure out WHY he was so anemic. They tested him for everything they could think of.

Stan called feline blood experts all over the country and put a LOT of work into our little boy. Tuxie needed to go on Epogen and Nupogen for a while, he was having weekly hematocrits, he needed a blood transfusion at one point - and Stan fought with us for four years to save Tuxie's life. There were ups and downs, but he knows our cats REALLY well at this point, because Tuxie had to go in daily for so many months, we decided to move into a house so we could be closer to his vet, quite frankly. So we moved into a house, and we were just 10 minutes from the great vet then.

Four years later, Gary got really ill, so we moved back into the RV because he was unable to help me take care of the house and property - so we're back where we were (the only RV park in Northern NJ open through the winter). So we're back to TNRing at the local vet - but we still take Tuxie and our kitties for their annuals and stuff to Stan.

So Charlie's been seen by this wonderful vet at the local place - she really is great, and clearly has a soft touch, knows what she's doing, and looooves animals. But we want Tuxie's vet to give him the once over, because he just catches things other people don't. And after seeing Charlie, he'll feel much more comfortable talking to us about Charlie & Tuxie together, and our options. And we'd like a 2nd opinion on how safe Tuxie would be re: not removing Charlie's canines vs removing his canines &etc.

I trust our "new" vet at the (now) local vet with Charlie's life. I trust Stan with Tuxie's life. That's probably the best way to sum it up.

For anyone interested that doesn't make it over that way, I posted two short videos of him playing. http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=217844

You have had some very sickly kitties for sure. I know lunworm is rare in cats and to deal with such infestation yet...She is a lucky little girl!

Tuxie is very lucky too, chemo kills blood cells and he was very anemic to begin with.

I understand why you want to take Charlie to Stan; given his sense of intuition and his approach to diagnosis, he is one great vet. Do you have to see him at the ehospital or does he have his own practice also?

Marina

Yes, other than our first two rescues (Lazlo and Shelly - both of whom ended up having extensive UTI problems), they all had special needs - health, mental, or physical, that's how we ended up with so many. We kept the hard-to-adopt kitties. At the time - we were going to have two cats. Who knew we'd end up getting so extensively involved in rescue and TNR?

As to the vet practices - Stan and the group of vets manage a normal vet practice during the day and on Saturday. At nights and on Sunday, it's just the systems that switch, and the doctors of the regular vet practice have a schedule for who works nights and the Sundays.

Here's who they are: http://www.newtonvet.com/ I think one of Stan's case studies published is, in fact, Tuxedo. We'll have to ask him.

In fact, they helped us so much for the years we worked with all of them, we threw them a huge party - rented a well known place up that way, catered and all. That was before Gary got sick and we used to earn actual money.

This is the close vet practice: http://www.blairstownanimalhospital.com/ Charlie's great Doc is Dr. Summers, though we love Dr. Clegg (still call her by her maiden name though ).

But we know ALL the local vet practices around here, and have used them all at various points.

Intro updates:

Brought over Charlie poop and pee to put in the litter boxes over here last night. Figured we should start getting them used to finding his smell there. I did carry the baggies around and let everyone smell them before I put them in the boxes. Didn't seem to be any issue.

Gonna bring Charlie over here this afternoon. Let him explore up front alone first.