A quick answer is NO. I also do not believe in puttting a collar on a cat or putting a microchip in its body. I want my cats to be just the way they were born. My cats are NEVER allowed outside so my cats are just the way they were born.
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Do you believe in De-clawing?
- Thread starter just1cat
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Found some research references:
Yeon SC, Flanders JA, Scarlett JM, et al. Attitudes of owners regarding tendonectomy and onychectomy in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;218:43-47.
Summary: Retrospective phone follow-up of teaching hospital clients, DVM student surgeons. 39/98 owners whose cats underwent elective onychectomy or tendonectomy were contacted two months to five years (median 11.5 months) after surgery. 17 (44%) of declawed cats returned to normal within three days, 35 (90%) within two weeks. 31 (80%) had more than one medical complication. 13 (33%) developed at least one behavior problem. 6(15.4%) would not use the litter box and 7 (17.9%) had an increase in biting habits or intensity. 34(87%) owners had a positive attitude and 2 (5.1%) had a negative attitude towards declawing.
And this:
Patronek, GJ, Glickman LT, Beck AM, et al. Risk factors for relinquishment of cats to an animal shelter. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996;209:582–588
Summary: Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a random digit dial survey of cat owners. Prevalence of declawing was 45%(476/1056) in the owned cat population. In the univariate analysis, declawed cats were at decreased risk of relinquishment compared to non-declawed cats (OR=0.63; 95% CI 0.45-0.87). After adjustment in a multivariate model, declawed cats were at an increased risk of relinquishment (OR=1.89;1.00-3.58); this reversal made the effect of declawing difficult to interpret. Among 218 cats relinquished to a shelter, more (44/84; 52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (39/134; 29.1%) were reported by owners to have inappropriate elimination (p=0.022).
More:
Landsberg GM. Cat owners’ attitudes toward declawing. Anthrozoos 1991;4:192-197.
Summary: Retrospective mail survey of veterinarians. 320/400 returned questionnaires. 196/250 (78.4%) did not advocate declawing and only did it on request. 104/221(47%) veterinarians' recollections indicated no problems, 55 (24.9%) reported nail regrowth, and 22 (9.9%) reported additional long term problems.
....and there are efforts in the U.S. to ban declawing - some of them successful.
From http://www.thecattherapist.com/dont_declaw.htm
But the body of anti-declaw evidence out there is growing. While studies may show that inappropriate biting and peeing are "equivalent" in the non-declaw and declawed cat populations, surveys of shelters indicate that there is a higher incidence of surrender to shelters of declawed cats for behavioral reasons, and this apparently was confirmed by research published in the October 2001 issue of JAVMA.
Laurie
Also,
Yeon SC, Flanders JA, Scarlett JM, et al. Attitudes of owners regarding tendonectomy and onychectomy in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;218:43-47.
Summary: Retrospective phone follow-up of teaching hospital clients, DVM student surgeons. 39/98 owners whose cats underwent elective onychectomy or tendonectomy were contacted two months to five years (median 11.5 months) after surgery. 17 (44%) of declawed cats returned to normal within three days, 35 (90%) within two weeks. 31 (80%) had more than one medical complication. 13 (33%) developed at least one behavior problem. 6(15.4%) would not use the litter box and 7 (17.9%) had an increase in biting habits or intensity. 34(87%) owners had a positive attitude and 2 (5.1%) had a negative attitude towards declawing.
And this:
Patronek, GJ, Glickman LT, Beck AM, et al. Risk factors for relinquishment of cats to an animal shelter. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1996;209:582–588
Summary: Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a random digit dial survey of cat owners. Prevalence of declawing was 45%(476/1056) in the owned cat population. In the univariate analysis, declawed cats were at decreased risk of relinquishment compared to non-declawed cats (OR=0.63; 95% CI 0.45-0.87). After adjustment in a multivariate model, declawed cats were at an increased risk of relinquishment (OR=1.89;1.00-3.58); this reversal made the effect of declawing difficult to interpret. Among 218 cats relinquished to a shelter, more (44/84; 52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (39/134; 29.1%) were reported by owners to have inappropriate elimination (p=0.022).
More:
Landsberg GM. Cat owners’ attitudes toward declawing. Anthrozoos 1991;4:192-197.
Summary: Retrospective mail survey of veterinarians. 320/400 returned questionnaires. 196/250 (78.4%) did not advocate declawing and only did it on request. 104/221(47%) veterinarians' recollections indicated no problems, 55 (24.9%) reported nail regrowth, and 22 (9.9%) reported additional long term problems.
....and there are efforts in the U.S. to ban declawing - some of them successful.
From http://www.thecattherapist.com/dont_declaw.htm
Also, declawing is now illegal in Norfolk, VA. From the same site:
I am not aware of and could not find any long term studies done on declawing and whether or not there is actually an increased prevalence of pain in relation to arthritis in, let's say, 14 year-old or more declawed cats than the general population.
But the body of anti-declaw evidence out there is growing. While studies may show that inappropriate biting and peeing are "equivalent" in the non-declaw and declawed cat populations, surveys of shelters indicate that there is a higher incidence of surrender to shelters of declawed cats for behavioral reasons, and this apparently was confirmed by research published in the October 2001 issue of JAVMA.
Laurie
The primary difference is in pain experienced after the declaw.
Laurie
Thank you, Laurie, for taking the time to look up those EXCELLENT study reviews.
Some people have said that they would rather see the cat declawed then lose it's home...but some of these studies reflect that if a declawed cat develops problems post operation, then they are right back to possibly loosing their homes, but now they have even more behavorial problems. How wins in this situation? My whole philosophy on the topic is, if you can't handle that a cat may use its claws inappropriately on occasion, then either A. don't get a cat or B. adopt an already declawed one.
I remember a few years ago adopting a pair of adorable little kittens that were flown out from California, they could find no one to take them as they were leukemia positive, and upon them arriving in my home, being horrified because I thought they were declawed. I thought this because they were scratching on a chair but weren't doing any damage so I held their paws and squeezed and didn't feel any claws- turns out someone has just clipped their claws really well- so no one can tell me that clipping claws doesn't work if it's done properly
Some people have said that they would rather see the cat declawed then lose it's home...but some of these studies reflect that if a declawed cat develops problems post operation, then they are right back to possibly loosing their homes, but now they have even more behavorial problems. How wins in this situation? My whole philosophy on the topic is, if you can't handle that a cat may use its claws inappropriately on occasion, then either A. don't get a cat or B. adopt an already declawed one.
I remember a few years ago adopting a pair of adorable little kittens that were flown out from California, they could find no one to take them as they were leukemia positive, and upon them arriving in my home, being horrified because I thought they were declawed. I thought this because they were scratching on a chair but weren't doing any damage so I held their paws and squeezed and didn't feel any claws- turns out someone has just clipped their claws really well- so no one can tell me that clipping claws doesn't work if it's done properly
Excellent point. Especially given shelter response that there is a higher euthanization rate among declawed cats.
Laurie
My first cat was declawed by her previous owners before we adopted her. She was a great cat, never had any problems with her feet and was able to hold her own against the dogs and anything else even without claws. She would also "sharpen her claws" on furniture even though she didn't HAVE any claws- she'd grab an edge of say a chair's upholstery and latch on with her toes and pull really hard, or paw at the sides of a couch, etc...she did that a lot and it didn't bother her that there was nothing actually there to sharpen. Since she was not damaging the furniture we allowed her to continue.
That said, I would definitely not get a cat declawed. I just don't see the point of having them go through surgery and possibly causing problems when there are so many alternatives. Our current cat has all her claws. Once in a while she will dig at the carpet but most of the time she leaves the furniture alone. We also have two kittens in the house right now and all we did was leave out scratching pads for them and they never bother the furniture. If they did there are many ways to discourage it that are not so drastic as surgery.
I don't believe in doing surgery on animals unless it is medically necessary. I don't even like docking or cropping in dogs.
That said, I would definitely not get a cat declawed. I just don't see the point of having them go through surgery and possibly causing problems when there are so many alternatives. Our current cat has all her claws. Once in a while she will dig at the carpet but most of the time she leaves the furniture alone. We also have two kittens in the house right now and all we did was leave out scratching pads for them and they never bother the furniture. If they did there are many ways to discourage it that are not so drastic as surgery.
I don't believe in doing surgery on animals unless it is medically necessary. I don't even like docking or cropping in dogs.
I am not as against it as some other posters here.
I've seen cats who had it done and they are doing fine.
I did not do it to my cats even though the vet did offer declaw/neuter discount.
My cats aren't scratching any furniture anyway. They are only scratching on their posts.
One of the cats does scratch himself though.
With his back paws. He is a self-mutilator. If I thought that declawing him would help with his scratching, I would do it.
I've seen cats who had it done and they are doing fine.
I did not do it to my cats even though the vet did offer declaw/neuter discount.
My cats aren't scratching any furniture anyway. They are only scratching on their posts.
One of the cats does scratch himself though.
With his back paws. He is a self-mutilator. If I thought that declawing him would help with his scratching, I would do it.
I'm so glad you haven't done this to your kitties, though many who did didn't understand what they were doing, which is really the saddest part.Originally Posted by jenniferd
I am not as against it as some other posters here.
I've seen cats who had it done and they are doing fine.
I did not do it to my cats even though the vet did offer declaw/neuter discount.
My cats aren't scratching any furniture anyway. They are only scratching on their posts.
One of the cats does scratch himself though.
With his back paws. He is a self-mutilator. If I thought that declawing him would help with his scratching, I would do it.
I just felt it important to respond to your comment that you've seen cats who were declawed and they're fine, so you're not as opposed to is as many people here.
No one here is arguing that there is always a problem every time. Most of us know plenty of declawed kitties that are doing fine. The issues, I believe, are
1) That there is the probability that there will be short term problems and a lot of pain for kitty,
2) That there is the possibility that there will be long term issues or problems, and
3) That the fundamental underlying issue is that morally we find it wrong to remove the ends of cats' toes because of our need to have unscratched furniture....
....that it is wrong to risk the probability and possibility that our kitties will suffer for the sake of vanity and inconvenience.
Laurie
Your first statement here reveals where your heart is. YOU apparantly feel that only a "bad owner" wants to declaw their cat. If that is truly your sentiment in this matter, then shouldn't your conscience prevail and obligate you to turn away owners who insist on declawing their cats?
I think it should.
The oath you took may put societies needs in the forefront, but we individuals who present our cats to you for health care, expect you to put the needs and welfare of our cats as your number one priority. We are paying you to do the very best thing for our cats.
I don't believe I said you were going to be (or are) a bad Vet. If it came across that way, I apologize. I have much respect for the work that Vets do.
The Vet we trust the most does not declaw, unless there is a health related need. I respect him a great deal for that, but he is also extremely competant in all other areas and.....*he listens*! He admits he doesn't know everything. He researches when approached with new thoughts, ideas and questions. He's pro-active and open to new protocols.
As breeders, my wife and I are well versed in feline health issues and often we will approach our Vet with new concepts and treatment protocols. He never dismisses them as rubbish, just because he's not heard of them before. He considers us a valuable resource of information and uses us as another tool in his arsenal to help cats. I trust him implicitly in the care of all our cats, from top show cats to altered pets.
Throughout this thread you have been presented with "hardcore facts" in regards to declawing issues. I don't think I need to come up with more links and quotes. Many of the people from this site who have responded negatively to declawing have many years of experience dealing with cats who have been declawed and subsequently do have behavior issues. We don't always need a scientific study done by a group of individuals with PHD credentials preceding their names to legitimize a post surgery condition.
Consider this fact alone, which has already been stated many times. In a vast number of countries declawing is illegal. Why is it not illegal throughout the USA?
The U.K. and Australia are forward thinking enough to realize this is mutilation, why aren't we? If it were illegal here, YOU wouldn't be put in the position of going against your conscience to honor your oath to put societies needs first.
Besides, society doesn't need declawed cats, only bad owners do. Right?
I hope you'll choose to educate your clients first and if they resist your teachings then send them on their way.
At this point I dont know if anyone is going to win this argument! Everyone feels strongly about their own beliefs.... I personally will never do it again to another one of my animals! It was a big mistake in my case! The pain for the cat was overwhelming! That said, Ill keep reading this thread to see if anyone gets ahead in the issue! So far, almost everyone is against except for medical purposes so we'll have to see how it turns out!
I would never ever ever de-claw any of my cats. I'm learning to be a vet tech and when I get into the field, I think I will refuse to participate in any of these surgeries (that is if my clinic does them).
I just wanted to make a few more comments...
One: I am so very much against declawing, as I mentioned, I just felt it merited being repeated
Two: In regards to vets that refuse a declaw (I'm talking typical surgeries, not hypothetical "in the cat's best interest" for whatever reason issues). IF there was a vet any where in my general vacinity that refused to declaw. I would spend the extra money and time to travel to them. Unfortunetely there isn't, I've looked. But in a heartbeat, I would give loyalty to such a vet that stood by these "morals" that I so strongly believe in.
Three: Although we know this is a anti-declaw site, I appreciate such a thread, although it is rather obvious how the majority outcome would be
. If such an active current thread is viewed by a newcomer and dissuades them from making the choice to declaw, it's worth it's weight in gold.
Good Night all!
One: I am so very much against declawing, as I mentioned, I just felt it merited being repeated
Two: In regards to vets that refuse a declaw (I'm talking typical surgeries, not hypothetical "in the cat's best interest" for whatever reason issues). IF there was a vet any where in my general vacinity that refused to declaw. I would spend the extra money and time to travel to them. Unfortunetely there isn't, I've looked. But in a heartbeat, I would give loyalty to such a vet that stood by these "morals" that I so strongly believe in.
Three: Although we know this is a anti-declaw site, I appreciate such a thread, although it is rather obvious how the majority outcome would be
Good Night all!
Well, then let me add in my 2 cents. I was one of those persons who put more weight in the experiences of people I knew in real life vs. what I read online. Declawing is the norm in the community where I live and I checked with everyone in my circle before making the decision--across the board they said no problems with the exception of one who said her cat had litter box trouble for a week after. Nothing personal against anyone, but I have a host of friends with declawed cats who are absolutely lovely animals so it's easy to think of people waging an online crusade as being over the top. My brother in fact has one of the nicest cats I know: he's also declawed, independent, hunter, indoor/outdoor/come and go cat living in the mountains where you sure would think he wouldn't survive long.Originally Posted by Kelicat
IThree: Although we know this is a anti-declaw site, I appreciate such a thread, although it is rather obvious how the majority outcome would be. If such an active current thread is viewed by a newcomer and dissuades them from making the choice to declaw, it's worth it's weight in gold.
My cat was tearing up everything including my legs and hands, the wallpaper, drywall, and doors. But beyond that he was a very feisty male and I was somewhat concerned for my kids and their friends who are always in and out of here. So I scheduled the procedure--dropped him off early Tuesday morning and at my vet's they typically keep them until Friday morning because they feel they heal better when confined for several days.
The next day I get a call saying he wasn't doing well and that the vet thought he might do better at home. He was hissing and growling (which he does anyway when I take him in to any vet) but he was also lunging at the cage door and they couldn't get near him. No pain meds 24 hours after surgery. He must have been downright feral in there because the vet on call asked if he ever let me hold him and followed me in. I didn't know what to expect and told my daughter to stand back, plus I had a thick blanket to transfer him into the pet taxi if needed. The vet tech went in first and Pippin went into high gear and lunged for the door. I followed and as soon as I spoke his name he started mewing and pawing at the door for me. The vet stood watching at the window and said he'd never seen anything like it.
I was just sick, sick, SICK. I took my wild boy home and got pain meds into him right away. He hobbled around to check out his places and then I sat down on the sofa because I knew whereever I'd go, he'd go. He started licking himself obsessively--pain but also because he'd messed on himself and it was matted in his fur and he hates that. Spent much of the next few days on the sofa to keep him down. The pain must have started subsiding around day 3 because he became more active. Licking started subsiding around 1 1/2 weeks. At 2 weeks post-op I was calling the vet because the pain was still there. At 4 weeks post-op I was calling the vet because the pain was still there (he was faltering at what were previously easy leaps and collapsed going up the stairs).
It was a horrible, horrible ordeal and I will never do this to a cat again. What not one single friend I'd checked with had mentioned is that the claw removal doesn't just stop the cat from scratching--it totally changes the paws. Before my cat had loved grasping around things with his front claws and when he'd grasp my arm now there's no strength to it. He became bored and listless because most of his play involved climbing, leaping, and grasping. And what made me absolutely sick is watching how he had to learn to walk differently--I've had him since he was two weeks old and knew his movements inside and out. His gait changed completely because of the claw/toe removal. Thankfully there have been no long term behavior changes except he thinks he can't jump onto the washer when I'm in the room because I had to help him post op (he can do it just fine when I'm not around). I don't think he's in pain but I'll never know for sure. He's a big cat and I'm worried about long term complications. In the end, he's turned out to be fine with kids and their friends, but we have to watch him carefully around adults. He hisses at my friends, the appliance repairman, grandma...
How much of this did the vet tell me about beforehand? None of it--I got the standard form to sign off for possible complications, etc. When I took him back in at 4 weeks, only then did I hear that bigger cats like mine usually need pain/inflammation meds for longer periods. I was angry because if that's the case then I should have heard about it beforehand to watch for those complications and should have had the meds sent home with me to begin with, especially since he didn't have the confinement period they recommend.
I will never, ever do this to a cat again and hope sharing this will sway anyone reading this who's on the fence.
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I am the original poster, and I would like to say my spouse and I adopted a 1 1/2 year old female and pick her up today. She is NOT declawed and we have decided NOT to declaw her. We have aleady picked up a scratching post and plan to teach her the correct way to sharpen her claws. We will see how it goes and hopefully it won't be a problem. Look for my posts asking for advice if its not working out well
I'm still somewhat nuetral on the issue, but I do agree its not best for the cat. I've seen alot of cats who made out perfectly from a declaw and I feel its easier on them as babies and done during a spay or nueter. Their weight and age I feel play a huge roll in the pain and healing process.
I appreciate the knowledge and information everyone has shared and because of it, I made the decision not to declaw our new cat.
Thank you
I'm still somewhat nuetral on the issue, but I do agree its not best for the cat. I've seen alot of cats who made out perfectly from a declaw and I feel its easier on them as babies and done during a spay or nueter. Their weight and age I feel play a huge roll in the pain and healing process.
I appreciate the knowledge and information everyone has shared and because of it, I made the decision not to declaw our new cat.
Thank you
I didn't read the entire thread as I've heard all of the arguments before. I look at it this way. The pain they go through has to be similar to the pain you would experience with a broken bone. I've had those and they are excrutiating. Why would anyone purposefully break the bones and cause that degree of pain in someone they love?
So your child won't stop drawing on the wall. Would you amputate their hands? No, you would teach your child to draw elsewhere.
So your child won't stop drawing on the wall. Would you amputate their hands? No, you would teach your child to draw elsewhere.
Pippen, thank you for sharing your heart-breaking story, I hope your poor boy will be okay.
That story is a perfect example of what COULD hapen, I'm not going to argue that many cats make it through the surgery just fine, but there is always the possibility that they might not- how horrible would it be that that one cat might be yours? Not worth the risk IMO.
Just1cat, thank you also for making the decision to keep your kitties' toes. Especially at the age of 1.5, the risks associated with this surgery are magnified, while I would much prefer that the procedure is never done, doing it on an adult is much worse.
That story is a perfect example of what COULD hapen, I'm not going to argue that many cats make it through the surgery just fine, but there is always the possibility that they might not- how horrible would it be that that one cat might be yours? Not worth the risk IMO.
Just1cat, thank you also for making the decision to keep your kitties' toes. Especially at the age of 1.5, the risks associated with this surgery are magnified, while I would much prefer that the procedure is never done, doing it on an adult is much worse.
Pippen, thank you so much for sharing your difficult story. Best wishes to you and your family..
I absolutely do not believe in de-clawing.
I think it's cruel & inhuman. It would be like pulling the fingernails out of a human..
My cats are all indoor furbabies, but if by any chance one of them happened to get out, they'd have their claws for defense. I'd much rather have clawed up furniture, than to subject my furbabies to something that is not only cruel, but unecessary as well.
The ONLY time I would ever allow one of my cats to get de-clawed would be if it was a medical emergency.
~KK~
My cats are all indoor furbabies, but if by any chance one of them happened to get out, they'd have their claws for defense. I'd much rather have clawed up furniture, than to subject my furbabies to something that is not only cruel, but unecessary as well.
The ONLY time I would ever allow one of my cats to get de-clawed would be if it was a medical emergency.
~KK~
Thank you for posting my thoughts exactly!
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