"To Pull His Teeth or Not"?? Chronic Stomatitis/Gingivitis

Originally Posted by Momofmany

I think the most important thing to understand with any stomatitis cat is the underlying cause for the problem. IMHO, pulling teeth in many cases is simply treating the symptoms and not the cause. And while it might eliminate all pain, it is such a drastic measure for them. I couldn't imagine myself having my teeth pulled then not given dentures. Cats teeth, particularly their canines, are almost like hands to them.

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If I was in the kind of pain I witnessed my cat being in, dentures would be the last thing I would care about. I would be saying get these teeth out of my head! I understand where you're coming from but all the time that's spent trying to figure out the underlying cause is time that the cat is suffering.

Originally Posted by catcaregiver

If I was in the kind of pain I witnessed my cat being in, dentures would be the last thing I would care about. I would be saying get these

teeth out of my head! I understand where you're coming from but all the time that's spent trying to figure out the underlying cause is time that the cat is suffering.

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I absolutely understand where you are coming from. As I worked thru my Stumpy's problems, there were recommendations made by my vet that would have put him through more misery than relief. A brief sanity check on what was really going to serve him longer term good was the best thing we did.

Cat's hide their pain very well but there are sometimes clear giveaways, particularly when you are dealing with an alpha cat in a multi cat household. Stumpy not only quit playing, but gave up his alpha role after 9 years, then started to hide from us. The day he started to hide we made the appointment to do the full extraction. From what I've read, LF isn't there. As their caregivers, it is our obligation to them to make tough decisions, but only when it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Momofmany

I absolutely understand where you are coming from. As I worked thru my Stumpy's problems, there were recommendations made by my vet that would have put him through more misery than relief. A brief sanity check on what was really going to serve him longer term good was the best thing we did.

Cat's hide their pain very well but there are sometimes clear giveaways, particularly when you are dealing with an alpha cat in a multi cat household. Stumpy not only quit playing, but gave up his alpha role after 9 years, then started to hide from us. The day he started to hide we made the appointment to do the full extraction. From what I've read, LF isn't there. As their caregivers, it is our obligation to them to make tough decisions, but only when it makes sense.

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I didn't know my cat had a problem until I saw him cowering a few inches from his feed dish. He would cautiously reach over and pull one piece of kibble from the dish. He wanted to eat but he thought the dish was causing him pain and he was scared of it. It absolutely broke my heart when I realized what was going on. I started out having the back two upper and lower molars removed. That helped for a few months but the problem returned. After more trips to the Vet trying different antibiotics (in hindsight, a waste of time and money IMO) I had the rest of his back teeth removed. Again, this helped for a short time. More trips to the Vet and many more $$$ later, long story short he ended up getting squamous cell carcinoma in his pharynx and I will always wonder if the continued trauma is what caused it. I feel very guilty about it. I should have had all the back teeth removed the first time.

One sure sign that your cat is having mouth pain is that they salivate a lot.

In response to Catcaregiver "One sure sign that your cat is having mouth pain is that they salivate a lot." I have not noticed Littlefoot salavating.

I just got home from the vet and am surely now distressed more than ever.

I told her that we didn't want any teeth extracted and were going with a cleaning and a biopsy. I told her we would have his teeth cleaned ever 6 months if needed (at a cost of appx $400-$500 a visit) change his diet, brush his teeth, we were willing to do anything to prevent him loosing his teeth especially if he didn't have LPS.

She agreed to follow our wishes. She told me that it is very rare to see a cat with his symptoms that did not have lps and even if the biospy turns out negative Littlefoot will more than likely continue to have a cronic mouth problems. She wanted to reasure us that his mouth problems would no longer exist and he would be a much happier cat if we pulled his teeth.

She felt I really needed to understand what we were looking at long term treatment wise. That with all the facts we would be better apt to make the correct choices for him.

1. The biopsy today might not show a true result because he has been on steroids until a couple of days ago.

This one i didn't know and has me terrified I knew there was a risk ever time they have to use anistesia on a cat. What I didn't know is what that risk really is.

2. Vets use the same drugs they use when they uthinize cats. She explained they have to bring the cat near death to work on them, that is why it is so risky. OMG

I called my husband when I got home to explain what she had told me. He was like dumbfounded and sure I had gotten it wrong. My son confirmed what he had heard and understood.

OK this is not going to happen ever 6 months!!!!

On a really good note all his blood and urine tests they did two days ago came back normal.

The total of todays worry about my baby will be between $486 - $652. I know this sounds ridiculously high. But we believe he should be treated just like a real person and as such he gets every possible benefit that will see him through his surgery.

I hate crying and it seems the more I learn the more I cry. I will feel much better when I know he is out of surgery.

hugs Menou Lover

I don't know. My Twitch had her teeth pulled. She is happy as can be & doesn't know the difference. She bites the other cats & they all cringe like she has teeth when she chomps down.

Had I done dental cleanings, if they even would've helped, she would've gone through the same cycle of...teeth OK, teeth bugging me, teeth starting to really hurt, I can't eat my teeth hurt so bad.....is what my vet told me.

I know everyone has a different opinon, but if LF is going through pain after 4-6 months & needs another dental, how much fun is that for him?

I have to agree with White Cat Lover. Believe it or not, cats are extremely resilient and can adjust to most situations. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my friend had all his cat's teeth pulled and he adjusted just fine. He eats anything and everything, including the hard crunchy dry food. Also, he noticed a huge change in his overall demeanor. He was much more energetic, always wanting to play, etc... He said he was like a different cat! You need to think about LF's comfort and how much you want to put him thru with all the vet visits.

I love that name... "Littlefoot". Too cute

I think you need to listen to your Vet. We are all just a bunch of strangers who can't see your cat. We can give you suggestions based on our own experiences but again, we can't see your cat. What about taking LF to another Vet to get another opinion? By the time my cat had to be euthanized I had around $1500 in Vet visit after Vet visit and my Vet is reasonably priced. My cat did not have all of his teeth removed, just the ones behind his canines (in stages). Total removal would have been the next step and it would have cost another $1100-$1300. Stomatitis is not an inexpensive problem to treat. If I had to do it all over again I would have at least had all teeth behind the canines removed as the first step. If heaven forbid I have another cat that gets this, I will not put it through multiple procedures.

With euthanasia, they do give an overdose of anesthesia. However, keep in mind that the amount used for anesthesia is very small. Also, the very same anesthetics that are being used for our cats are also used for people, so these aren't poisons made just for our pets, and they can be used safely in the right amounts. People have the same risks when we have surgery, but we have to look at whether the benefit is greater than the risk. Most cats don't react poorly to anesthesia--the ones that do usually have underlying health issues like heart, liver, or kidney disease which is why blood work and exams are so important. Cats with heart, liver, or kidney disease can do just fine with anesthesia too, but it's a little more risky and extra precautions are usually taken.

If you do end up pulling Little Foot's teeth next time, I would suggest making sure your vet (or whatever vet you use) can do dental x-rays. These x-rays will ensure that no tooth fragments are left behind, as any remaining fragments can make the symptoms return (as someone else mentioned earlier). It may make it more expensive, but it would be worth it to prevent the need for additional surgeries and pain.

I called the vet at 2pm and was informed that Littlefoot made it through surgery ok whew I have been going crazy all day worrying.

I don't know much they will talk to my husband when he picks him up but important thing is he is alive and recoverying..

The biopsy will take a couple of days it has to go to a lab. But I am really going to work hard on his diet and dental care.

In the end we will do what we need to I thank you all for your presents you sent to us *hugs*

Oh the white twins went in this am for their yearly and are fine. Was fun trying to get three screaming cats into the vet office hahaha. She did not seem overly concerned with the overweight issue. Told me half the battle was won because I was a ware of it and knew it was not healthy.

hugs Menou Lover
will type more info when i get it

I'm happy to hear Littlefoot made it through his surgery. Glad your other kitties are fine too.

If you are going to start a dental regimen with Littlefoot (and your other cats) you may want to consider a chlorhexidine rinse such as http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p...ene-Rinse.aspx

YEA for Littlefoot

I know that I'm the one that is siding with caution with LF. All versions of stomatitis are not equal. Stomatitis is a generic term used for a lot of mouth inflamations. If LF really has LPS as the vet suspects, teeth extractions usually put the disease in remission, but there are additional treatments that may need to be used long term. LPS can reoccur even after teeth extractions and the suggestion is to avoid this as long as possible. Long term treatment involves pain management, even after the extractions.

Surgery for extractions on LPS cats is very extensive, as if the vet doesn't take the time to remove every last tooth fragment (and cat teeth roots are very slender and easy to lose during an extraction), the disease will come back.

That is why I suggest proof through a biopsy before the extractions are done. I am not against extractions, just offer the caution to understand what you are getting yourself into when you decide to do it. And if LF has LPS, then the extractions should be done through a dental specialist, not just a general vet. The ramifications of doing it wrong will only put him through more suffering.

Oh I am so happy he made it through the surgery OK!!!

The vet just called to let us know that the biopsy came back positive

The vet said is was a mild case, now my female vet said she was afraid it would not show up at all because of the antibiotics and steroids he has been on for a while now.

My husband is arguing with me ;( he said I read somewhere on this web sight there are differant forms of LPS. I don't recall reading that.

So I am asking anyone who knows anything about LPS are there differant forms of it? If so are some forms treatable?

I think my husband is just not wanting to face what might have to happen to Littlefoot in the future. I don't either but I sure as heck don'twant to make his life miserable because we don't have the nerve to pull his teeth.

ANYONE please help... hubby left the house angry and upset with me. He told me to come back and reread all the posts again.

hugs Menou Lover

Originally Posted by Menou Lover

The vet just called to let us know that the biopsy came back positive

The vet said is was a mild case, now my female vet said she was afraid it would not show up at all because of the antibiotics and steroids he has been on for a while now.

My husband is arguing with me ;( he said I read somewhere on this web sight there are differant forms of LPS. I don't recall reading that.

So I am asking anyone who knows anything about LPS are there differant forms of it? If so are some forms treatable?

I think my husband is just not wanting to face what might have to happen to Littlefoot in the future. I don't either but I sure as heck don'twant to make his life miserable because we don't have the nerve to pull his teeth.

ANYONE please help...

hubby left the house angry and upset with me. He told me to come back and reread all the posts again.

hugs Menou Lover

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I'm so sorry to hear this.
I don't know the post your husband is referring to but I did find this http://vmth.tamu.edu/hospservices/dentistry/LPS.shtml "There appears to be several forms of LPS and different treatments may work better in some than in others."

Best wishes to you and Littlefoot.

If you Google LPS there is quite a lot out there on it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...tic+Stomatitis

Here's a link to a dental vet with some good pictures too.

http://www.dentalvet.com/vets/cats/LPGS.htm

Our kitty Puddin (10.5 yrs old) had all her teeth with the exception of her 4 fangs extracted at the end of August. I do not regret it one bit - within a week she was feeling better than she ever has (we adopted her in Dec. 2006 - she was a very sick kitty). Her breath does not stink anymore, and she gives her self full body kitty baths every day. She never has bathed more than a token amount in the past (and we didn't know what her "normal" behavior was, since she was ill when we adopted her, and we have never known her w/healthy gums/teeth). She never had any eating issues - always had and has a healthy appetite. We didn't know anything was wrong until she started drooling a lot this summer, and hiding.

We did steroids/dex/antibiotics for a couple months - that did reduce the pain and inflamation (and stinky breath), but did not come close to 100%.

The only thing that has worked (so far...) is the extractions. She eats raw meat chunks (w/vitamins) with no problem, and would only eat soft canned food for about a week after surgery. She will not touch it now.

Our regular vet felt it would be a waste of our money to try cleaning her teeth alot - she said she would rather have us use that money to go towards extractions, that the cleaning would only make the teeth/gums look nice for a little while, but would not fix the problem.

We had her extractions done by a dental specialist - Puddin came home the same day (w/antibiotics and pain meds.). We had to have her off any medicine for a few weeks before - the dental vet wanted to see Puddin's mouth in a bad state.

One important thing to know is that the longer a kitty is on steriods/dex meds, the LESS chance you have of the extractions being effective. The dental specialist says this is a common thing. (She is talking years on the meds.)

Also, if the kitty has FIV, calcivirus, etc..., the chances of the extractions working goes down.

Her feeling is that for a healthy cat (w/no other immune illneses), there is a 70% chance of 100% cure, 25% chance of improvement, and 5% no change.

Sometimes a cat will do very good w/the extractions, but still have an occasional flare up and need meds, but not ALL the time.

I was told it might take as long as 5 - 6 months for her mouth to be totally healed, that is not an overnight thing. She might need meds every now and then until that point.

So far, her mouth is doing great - there is a lot of improvement!

Our dental vet goes over the radiographs and then checks each tooth as she is doing the surgery. Poor Puddin - even her small front teeth were bad. The only teeth she felt safe leaving in were the 4 fangs.

We did NOT want to have to take Puddin back and have her put under and go through the stress of surgery again.

I am so glad we did all the teeth (except for her fangs) - it is MAJOR surgery - not just pulling teeth. Kitty and dog teeth roots are very deep. They can't simply pull a tooth, they have to dig and cut to get them out.

It cost $900 for this surgery - this included the x-rays, and includes the follow up visits (as long as the vet doesn't have to do anything other than look at Pud's mouth on the follow up visits). The 1st follow up was end of September, and then there will be one in 3 months from them. The dental vet has clients come from as far as Kentucky (she is in Alpharetta, GA), so she gears things towards people who can't bring their kitties back and forth easily. The only thing we had to do ahead of time is have our regular vet send over Puddin's blood work. Took Puddin to the specialist (1 hr away from home) in the morning, she did the radiographs, and then went right to surgery. Puddin was able to come home same day.

She has had to change how she eats a bit - picking up food is different w/out her teeth. (I just make sure the pieces of meat are smaller (not "minced" small, but smaller than the size of a nickel.), and leave the mixture kind of sticky (just add a tiny bit of water to the vitamin/meat mix), so she can pick it up w/her tongue easier). She "chews" - gums the pieces of meat just fine. Even the harder meats like heart.

She is so much more active and happy and much more brave than she used to be. It is so neat to see her real purrsonality coming out (since she has had health issues since we adopted her - its all new).

Does anyone know what decision Menou Lover made for LF? Does he still have all his teeth and if so have they improved?

My wife and I are in the same boat with our 7 year old male bi-color.

You can click on their member name and then click "send a private message".

They haven't posted since Feb this year, but they may get the private message from you and reply.

Hope that helps. Sorry your guy is having trouble. Best of luck.

I had tried that earlier in the day before I posted. We're just impatient adn hoped someone might have had a link to a follow up post. Thanks