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Kitten 3 months old, terror to adult

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I brought a new kitten into the house about 1 month ago.. She has her own room. We started to let her out a week ago and she got the lay of the land, including our 13 year old female, Angel, who lost her room mate in January.
Now, the kitten keeps attacking Angel. Angel is not a fighter..but she does his at the kitten and runs away... the kitten chases her. I feel bad for Angel. She had a nice quite house... sleeps with us, watch tv, and relaxes. Now she is constantly hissing at the attacking kitten.
Did I make a mistake getting a kitten...
Any way of changing this behavior.. or will it go away...
As long as the kitten is not attacking Angel, Angel does not care where the kitten goes... Angel just wants to be left alone. Please help.... we are ready to take the kitten back to the shelter.
post #2 of 25
This is probably very frustrating to Angel, but the kitten is simply trying to play, Angel is obviously not in the mood so she is saying "back off, leave me alone" by hissing. This is good in the sense that if Angel was extremely annoyed or feeling attacked, she could literally attack or defend herself. As it is it sounds like the standard kitten chasing the older dominant cat to play, and Angel running and hissing telling the kitten to back off. If possible, set up a secure safety zone for Angel, some where the kitten has minimal access. Definitely cut in when it looks like she is being stressed, play with the kitten to distract from Angel and tire out. At the same time allow Angel to see that you are trying to help her out in this way and you see how the kitten is pestering her. In the long run, it will all smooth out, it just takes time.........
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thank you Cheylink, I think you are 100% correct. I just do not want Angel to have a heart attack over this. This house is her domain along with the bed, and she has to learn to share. Your points are well taken. We do play alot with the kitten and Angel does watch over. Many times, like when Angel is drinking from running water in the bath sink, and the kitten is on the oppicite side of the sink... as long as Angel knows the kitten will not attack, she continues her drinking. She sees my hand in the way of any attack.
We live in the Northeast,, and Angel waits all winter to go into the sun room and relax in the sun. She has been out there and sometimes the kitten attacks, and sometimes they will lay down within 3 feet of each other.
Both while we are home have run of the house, and in the last 4 or 5 days, we have let them have full run of the house while we are at work. Yesterday the when Abby, the kitten, ran at Angel, Angel threw Abby on her back and let her have it... Angel is not a fighter.. more noise than fight. At night we attempted to let both stay out, but my we would not sleep.. they both fight for bed space. Abby still has her own bedroom complete with room service, fouton, litterbox, toys, food, water, window. We ever put a screen over the door to the hall,, but that did not work... see kept climbing it to the ceiling.
I think it is as much stress on us, as it is on Angel. Also we have two of the feliways running in the house to try to help.
We really appreciate the support.... we do want to keep her .. she is soooo cute. One other thing we do not understand.... when she in in her own bedroom,,, she trys to nurse on the rug.. she grabs onto a strand of rug and pushes with her paws and sucks.... she has not been injesting rug. Just think it is strange. Only does this in her room.
post #4 of 25
The rug sucking is probably due to leaving mom/siblings too early. Sometimes they grow out of the habit, many times they don't. It would have been better to adopt an older cat that is more laid back rather then a young kitten full of play.

Is there any chance you can adopt another kitten about the same age - that way they could play together and Angel can have more quiet time?
post #5 of 25
Hey there,

You are doing some great things to try to get your cats to co-exist, congrats! Abby really is only 'playing' so maybe if you start using that word instead of 'attacking' the whole aura will de-stress. Did Angel 'know about' or get introduced slowly to Abby?

I know you had Abby for about a month, but how did you handle your introductions? Did you swap rooms for a while? Like, put Angel in Abby's room so she can explore the scents while Abby explored Angels scents in the rest of the house.

It doesn't really sound like an introduction thing but it may have a bit to do with it. Angel is just letting the kitten know what is ok to do in her house. When Abby crosses the line, Angel will let her know and then Abby will know her limits. Abby is just a tiny kitten and is trying to play, Angel just wants to hang out with the kitten.......

As a fortune teller (not really ) I predict that 90% of the time Abby will be a pester to Angel as a rule, 5% of the time they will sleep in the same room, maybe together, and the other 5% percent.......Angel will partake in the playing.

It's hard for everyone - including the cats, to know the energy levels of everyone in the house. And the larger the age difference between the cats, I think the harder it is.

Stoli (1 yr) had the house to himself for about 4 months before we got another kitten. Today is Stoli's Gotcha Day and Wednesday is Luxor's 1 year birthday. . . .They both rumble and tumble all evening and sometimes we have to break them up. When they aren't playing with each other, they just hang. I don't think Stoli particuarly LOVES Luxor but I think they scheme together.

I think your situation is completely normal and try to not baby your Angel, it's hard. She has to set the limits with the kitten. Angel may just be letting you do the hard work when she really has to actually let Abby know what's ok.

Keep up the good work.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
The rug sucking is probably due to leaving mom/siblings too early. Sometimes they grow out of the habit, many times they don't. It would have been better to adopt an older cat that is more laid back rather then a young kitten full of play.

Is there any chance you can adopt another kitten about the same age - that way they could play together and Angel can have more quiet time?
that is a really good idea. - you may freak out and say oh my god i can't do another kitten.....but really if your place will allow it, three is ok! - Angel will be allowed to play when she wants but the kittens can play together instead of bugging Angel!
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
OK.. we are hanging in... The into was done very slowly.. about three weeks of first Abby in her own room with the door closed. Then she had run of the upstairs when Angel was downstairs. This let Abby put her sent all over the place, and Abby smell Angel. Then we put a screen door on the bedroom and they smelled and looked at each other.. this was ok... Abby could not touch Angel. Then Angel saw Abby running around upstairs whereas we put a screen at the top of the stairs. That was OK. Then we let Abby downstairs with us playing in the tv room,,, Angel looked in and that was OK.. It was just when Abby wanted to go at Angel is when the trouble started.
Yes, we can get another kitten and was going to do that in the beginning. But what are the chances the two kittens would gang up on Angel... There is a saying...if you dig one hole and that does not work.. you try digging another hold.... and then all you have is two holes.... One thing I am sorry about... I used a water squirt gun and hit Abby in the rear to try to keep her away from Angel.. but it hurt me to do that...... there must be other ways.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldfarmCats View Post
OK.. we are hanging in... The into was done very slowly.. about three weeks of first Abby in her own room with the door closed. Then she had run of the upstairs when Angel was downstairs. This let Abby put her sent all over the place, and Abby smell Angel. Then we put a screen door on the bedroom and they smelled and looked at each other.. this was ok... Abby could not touch Angel. Then Angel saw Abby running around upstairs whereas we put a screen at the top of the stairs. That was OK. Then we let Abby downstairs with us playing in the tv room,,, Angel looked in and that was OK.. It was just when Abby wanted to go at Angel is when the trouble started.
Yes, we can get another kitten and was going to do that in the beginning. But what are the chances the two kittens would gang up on Angel... There is a saying...if you dig one hole and that does not work.. you try digging another hold.... and then all you have is two holes.... One thing I am sorry about... I used a water squirt gun and hit Abby in the rear to try to keep her away from Angel.. but it hurt me to do that...... there must be other ways.
yeah don't use a water gun. it could get in their ears and cause and infection and they could fear you.

i doubt the kittens would want to gang up on Angel as a rule. I don't have three cats but i've not seen many pictures on this site where people who have more than two cats all laying together. i think they take turns.
post #9 of 25
Does Angel have health issues that preclude her from tussling with the kitten? If not, is is perfectly okay to let them work things out between themselves. Angel will be the one who teaches Abby what it means to be a cat.

Seb is 11 years and Daphne is 4 months. They get along great. From some of the sounds they make while playing you would think WWIII had started. But it really is just play. Before Daphne came along all Seb did all day was eat and sleep. I thought he as turning into an old man. Now with Daphne, he is so much more active (although not as active as she is) and he has something to think about. He watches her to make sure she isn't doing something she shouldn't.

He also has a high shelf he can escape to that she cannot reach quite yet.

Ideally, I would have loved to get another kitten for Daphne but I couldn't. i never imagined Seb would get along so well with the little one.

Not sure if this helps your situtation or not. Angel may be stronger than you think. She knows all about what it is like to be a cat and I have no doubt she will teach Abby what her limitations are.

The suckling is a form of self-comfort, usually displayed in those who were not fully weaned. Some stop eventually, others continue for years. I had one girl who did it her entire life. The paw action is kneading. They knead and suckle as if they were still with mom.

Edit: I agree, the baby isn't attacking. She is playing. Kittens are hard-wired for lots and lots of playing. It is how they learn If you watch programs on wild cats, you will see the kits play-attack one another and mom. They are practicing their hunting skills and social skills.
post #10 of 25
I don't think 2 kittens would really gang up on Angel...they will be too busy playing with each other
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I don't think 2 kittens would really gang up on Angel...they will be too busy playing with each other
I agree with GK

I think that getting another kitten would solve some of the problem because all the kitten is trying to do now is play with Angel! Also every one has given you such great advice
post #12 of 25
I agree with everybody else.
All Angel is doing is letting Abby know that there are limits. The mom would do the same! When the kitten gets a little older, if it "attacks" her in play-fighting, she will do the same as she would with another cat, growl and hiss and swat. She'll start treating it like a regular cat... atleast that's what our outdoor cats do. If you leave them be, they will sort it out I am sure. There is plenty of space, and find a shelf that Angel can get to that Abby can't maybe. As long as they aren't serious fighting, they'll work it out. But if you want to, just get a third kitten. If you have one, I can see how you may be reluctant to get a second. But if you already have 2, 3 doesn't really make a difference. They don't eat much, not a problem. Don't use much litter, if you compare 2 cats to 3 of them. And if the kittens "gang up" on Angel, she will tell them to back off. They'll see she's no fun, and thus become playmates and Angel can have her peace.
Good luck!
post #13 of 25
I agree that getting another kitten may be the answer as there aren't many 13 year olds who can cope with having a lively kitten around. Jaffa was almost 9 when I got Mosi and he's always been a lively cat, but even then things have been a bit fraught at times as Mosi wants to play a lot and Jaffa doesn't want to all the time. Hissing is normal and is Angel's way of telling your kitten to back off but whatever you decide to do keep a close eye on them as your kitten may start to assert herself more as she gets older and that may stress out Angel more than the current situation. When you introduce a kitten to an older cat the relationship constantly evolves as the kitten grows up. Most cats are quite tolerant of young kittens but may become less so as they get older.
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
It seems at night, Abby is more agressive towards Angel. Yes, I am affraid that Abby is trying to become the domant cat. My wife keeps telling me, she is a baby and just playing. When she becomes too much at night when we are all trying to watch TV, including Angel, Abby gets crazy. So we put her in her bedroom to cool down. Really does not do any good when we let her out a couple of hours later. We want Angel to stay domant. She deserves it. She was here first, and been with us now 14 years. She just had a birthday. She sleeps with us every night unless Abby is out. Angel has earned her right in the bed. Abby too can stay in the bed, if she would agree to not bother Angel.
I appreciate everyones thoughts and support. We are thinking of a second kitten, but not sure Angel could handle it. Angel is the first pet I have had in my life and I have a certain connection with her. She went through a learning curve with us when she was a kitten too. Back then, we did not know any better and kept her in the cellar as a kitten until she was 7 months old at nights. We are so sorry we did that... and now we want to take care of her.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldfarmCats View Post
It seems at night, Abby is more agressive towards Angel. Yes, I am affraid that Abby is trying to become the domant cat. My wife keeps telling me, she is a baby and just playing. When she becomes too much at night when we are all trying to watch TV, including Angel, Abby gets crazy. So we put her in her bedroom to cool down. Really does not do any good when we let her out a couple of hours later. We want Angel to stay domant. She deserves it. She was here first, and been with us now 14 years. She just had a birthday. She sleeps with us every night unless Abby is out. Angel has earned her right in the bed. Abby too can stay in the bed, if she would agree to not bother Angel.
I appreciate everyones thoughts and support. We are thinking of a second kitten, but not sure Angel could handle it. Angel is the first pet I have had in my life and I have a certain connection with her. She went through a learning curve with us when she was a kitten too. Back then, we did not know any better and kept her in the cellar as a kitten until she was 7 months old at nights. We are so sorry we did that... and now we want to take care of her.

Firstly, putting Abby in time out is ok to cool down if she's getting aggressive but by the time 2 hours finishes she's forgotten why she's there. Try a shorter amount of time; but don't forget, she's just a kitten - sometimes it's difficult to see the difference between playing and aggression.

And secondly, no matter how hard you try you CANNOT reason with a cat. You can not dictate what nature sets. If abby is trying to be dominant cat you can't stop her It's in her nature. It sounds as if you have the perfect living scenario in your head but are frustrated that it isn't working out like that; and blaming everything on your new kitten.

If you don't feel that you can treat both your cats equally I suggest rehoming Abby so she can be the playful kitty mother nature made her to be. I try every day to treat my kitties equally and it's hard because I too have a connection with Stoli, but Luxor is a living breathing cat too. I can't forget about him......

Rehome Abby and when Angel's had a good long life with you and decides to play over the rainbow bridge, then think about another cat.

ALL of you deserve it.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldfarmCats View Post
Yes, we can get another kitten and was going to do that in the beginning. But what are the chances the two kittens would gang up on Angel... There is a saying...if you dig one hole and that does not work.. you try digging another hold.... and then all you have is two holes.... One thing I am sorry about... I used a water squirt gun and hit Abby in the rear to try to keep her away from Angel.. but it hurt me to do that...... there must be other ways.
When you say Angel lost her roommate, do you mean kitty? Where they close as well as closer in age? There may be a bit of depression from loss and then being chased around by a kitten only to remind you of your age and not in the mood....well I know how I would feel, just a bit bitter! I have to say that another kitten could really push her over the edge if she is depressed. Two kittens running around in her home, possibly sometimes ganging up on her, may just end up causing both of you more stress! Just a thought to ponder about........
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Angel was the first kitten. At a year old we got another kitten.. Angel did not like that back then either. Over time they tolorated each other. The other one was also a female, Mittens. Mittens passed in January when I could not save her from the kidney illness. She was just about 13. This killed me and my wife to put her down. We do miss the love of two companions, but this is just a little tougher than we thought. We are sure Abby will calm down after a while.... just wish she would be a little easier on Angel. We have thought of rehoming her..... but want to give it as much time as we can. I am getting a little attached to this little squirt.
post #18 of 25
it sounds like you are really really giving it a good go. i think you'll be able to make it work with a little time and patience. and really angel isn't going to be mad at you - she's just going to be annoyed with the little one for a while. the little ones are cute aren't they!
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldfarmCats View Post
Angel was the first kitten. At a year old we got another kitten.. Angel did not like that back then either. Over time they tolorated each other. The other one was also a female, Mittens. Mittens passed in January when I could not save her from the kidney illness. She was just about 13. This killed me and my wife to put her down. We do miss the love of two companions, but this is just a little tougher than we thought. We are sure Abby will calm down after a while.... just wish she would be a little easier on Angel. We have thought of rehoming her..... but want to give it as much time as we can. I am getting a little attached to this little squirt.
It will take some time and parenting, but it will smooth out eventually. Angel just needs some time and protection from you. The kitten will eventually calm down or be taught a lesson! Just keep stepping in when it seems Angel is stressed out, she will love you for that.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Abby tonight, she was like attacking me. She was in her room and I layed down with her... then she starting biting my legs, toes and hands and arms. She was uncontrolable. I do not know what set it off.. This has not happened before. My hands and arms are cut. She bit so hard she broke the skin. I finally left the room and told my wife, thats it.. she is outa here.
I do not know if she is playing or attacking. She had bit before,, but it was light. And in the past, used her feet to push away wiht no claws. But tonight it was all out.. teath, front and rear claws.
What did I say? I do not even know how to stop her because I know my strenght is much more than hers and I do not want to hurt her. I am starting to think she is a crazed cat. She got me good...............
post #21 of 25
It seems Abby is a hardcore play kitty.......this is manageable, but does take patience and firmness to show her what is going to far. This is probably what Angel is feeling, it's just to much! But you must remember she is a kitten and has no other guidance and parenting other then you and Angel. Obviously Angel wants nothing to do with it, so it is up to you. If you do decide it is to much, try to find her a home through you if you can, she is only being a kitten and obviously feels so comfortable in her new home that she is testing her limits with everyone. I am sure your last post was frustration, but it would be horrible to think of her in the shelter......... Maia is an extremely aggressive player.........When she was a kitten she never scratched or bit to hard, but I always prepare for it as they grow up. I started playing with her paws and trimming her claws at 3-4 months, just getting her use to it (of course she still protests!). I have heard a lot of positive things about Soft Paws, never tried myself but thats just me . I will admit I have been known for having scratches on my hands since often I instigate the rough play . When it gets extremely out of hand, no regard towards inflicting pain, my little trick is the "kitty hold" or the "claw".......
post #22 of 25
yeah, you'll definitely have to train her and she is TOTALLY trainable at this age. so don't worry about that....but you'll need to make sure you don't send mixed signals. like don't play with her at all with your hands or your feet. and if she attacks you, don't try to pull away - go limp and she'll think you're 'dead' and stop attacking.
post #23 of 25
IMO I'd really urge you to go adopt another kitten for the little one to rough house with. They are unlikely to gang up on the older cat - too busy chasing each other.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renovia View Post
yeah, you'll definitely have to train her and she is TOTALLY trainable at this age. so don't worry about that....but you'll need to make sure you don't send mixed signals. like don't play with her at all with your hands or your feet. and if she attacks you, don't try to pull away - go limp and she'll think you're 'dead' and stop attacking.
If she does attack your hands or feet out of no where, let out a "hey" or "owwww" firmly and let her know that hurts or is not ok! Walk away from her and let her be a crazy cat in her own world, when she tries to drag you or Angel into that world, tell her "calm down" over and over firmly, this is something I have to do with Maia often .......love her!
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
IMO I'd really urge you to go adopt another kitten for the little one to rough house with. They are unlikely to gang up on the older cat - too busy chasing each other.
My biggest fear in this instance would be Angel feeling completely shut out. Two kittens is double duty parenting, even if they end up focusing on each other, it will apply to everything! One bites a cord, the other follows, one jumps on the stove, scratches something, eats or claws furniture, and less likely to listen to you since they have each other........just IMO.......
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