CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with

Originally Posted by mariaeugenia

Hi everyone, just found this site. My cat, Avy, was just diagnosed with PKD about 3 weeks ago at age 10.

I have been researching this disease for several weeks now and would like to ask the following question:

What is the reason for waiting to administer phosphorus binder until it reaches the number 6? Would it hurt to administer them before then?

The vet had prescribed low phosphoprous foods but she is a very picky eater and has not responded well to them.

Thanks

MariaEugenia

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Hi MariaEugenia,

I am sorry to hear your kitty was diagnosed with PKD - I too have a kitty with this. If your kitties phos level is low normal I wouldn't want to be adding a binder, they do need a certain level of this. If it's high normal and you are not able to get your kitty to eat the lower phos foods, you would want to consider adding a binder to counter the effect of them eating a higher phos food.

Welcome to TheCatSite MariaEugenia.

I don't have any experience with phosphorous binders but Pat in the above post offered some excellent feedback for you.

I will keep Avy in my thoughts.

Originally Posted by xocats

Welcome to TheCatSite MariaEugenia.

I don't have any experience with phosphorous binders but Pat in the above post offered some excellent feedback for you.

I will keep Avy in my thoughts.

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Thanks to both of you. The reason I was asking the question is because she is not eating the low phosphourous foods. She is very picky. We are having some problems with her now, not eating anything and have been to the vets twice in the past 24 hours. Awaiting for some blood test results now.


ME

There are some helpful sites "linked" in some of the posts in this thread.
You might want to scan through this whole thread and see what you can find.

Be sure to post Avy's labs when you get them back.

More vibes for Avy on the way.

I have a 20 year old cat that has crf, hypertension, arthritis, and hyperthyroidism. Ever since he got a uti and was put on zenequin he will not eat purina nf, eukanuba multistage renal, kd, gd, or royal canin lp 21. Does anyone know of another type of canned renal food? The vet said that a canned renal would be best followed by a senior food. What he currently wants to eat is authority adult traditional loaf. Since he has crf he needs a low phosphorus/low protein food. Does anyone know how much phosphorus and protein are in this product? Before the uti he would enhale 2 cans of kd a day. he is not on the zenequin at the moment but still wants to switch foods basically every few days. The majority of the foods he likes are organic (e.g. by nature organics) foods that have a ton of phosphorus.

Originally Posted by sabrina_lane03

I have a 20 year old cat that has crf, hypertension, arthritis, and hyperthyroidism. Ever since he got a uti and was put on zenequin he will not eat purina nf, eukanuba multistage renal, kd, gd, or royal canin lp 21. Does anyone know of another type of canned renal food? The vet said that a canned renal would be best followed by a senior food. What he currently wants to eat is authority adult traditional loaf. Since he has crf he needs a low phosphorus/low protein food. Does anyone know how much phosphorus and protein are in this product? Before the uti he would enhale 2 cans of kd a day. he is not on the zenequin at the moment but still wants to switch foods basically every few days. The majority of the foods he likes are organic (e.g. by nature organics) foods that have a ton of phosphorus.

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I will send you a pm ...
If you read the first few pages you likely will find a great link Pat often refers to with phos counts..

I posted this message at Yahoo's CRF group but didn't get any replies so I decided to post the question here. My cat has arthritis that is progressing so I am trying to find something to give him. Everything that he has suggested one person at yahoo's group said is bad. She has not yet responded to a post about this item so I am asking the people here. The prior things the vet suggested were goldenseal ans gdp. The current item is liquid health's k-9 glucosamine. I know that K-9 glucosamine is for dogs but my vet said that it can be given to cats. Does anyone here have an opinion on giving this item to a cat? Here are the ingredients and the link to the item:

maganese, glucosamine hcl, chondroitin hcl, opiMSM, water, aloa vera,
vegtable glycerin, citric acid, potassium sorbate, and sodium benzoate.

http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/prodI...r.php?prodID=6

Originally Posted by sabrina_lane03

I posted this message at Yahoo's CRF group but didn't get any replies so I decided to post the question here. My cat has arthritis that is progressing so I am trying to find something to give him. Everything that he has suggested one person at yahoo's group said is bad. She has not yet responded to a post about this item so I am asking the people here. The prior things the vet suggested were goldenseal ans gdp. The current item is liquid health's k-9 glucosamine. I know that K-9 glucosamine is for dogs but my vet said that it can be given to cats. Does anyone here have an opinion on giving this item to a cat? Here are the ingredients and the link to the item:

maganese, glucosamine hcl, chondroitin hcl, opiMSM, water, aloa vera,
vegtable glycerin can cause blood sugar issues, citric acid, potassium sorbate, and sodium benzoate.that is a preservative that should not be given to cats or dogs

http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/prodI...r.php?prodID=6

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try this site...

www.trixsyn.com

Hi,
My cat (Gracie) was diagnosed with renal failure over a week ago. Her Creatine levels were 15 when I brought her in. I didn't recognize some of her symptoms like bad breath. I've been buying tartar treats for her for a couple of months now. Anyways the vet kept for 5 days giving her fluids. Her creatine level only dropped to 6, but she was eating a lot and seemed to be feeling better. I got to bring her home and they gave me some food she loved that was a renal diet. As soon as I got her home she would not eat or drink. I tried to feed her with a syrienge for a couple of days but she could rarely keep it down. So I took her back to the vet. They kept her over night and put more fluids in her. When I picked her up the vet said she ate (same food I've been trying to feed her). This time when she came home she started drinking water immediately, but still will not eat. It has been a couple of days now and I have tried numerous tricks but nothing works. The vet doesn't expect her to live long and said just try to make her as happy as possible and to bring her back as soon as she gets worse so he can put her to sleep. I am torn over what I should do. I love her so much and she seems happy but at the same time I know that she is really sick. Quite a few people have told me I should put her to sleep, but I'm not sure if I should quite yet. She is still walking around the house and sleeping most of the day and purring when I pet her, but she is most definitely weak (not playing). Her weight has dropped a pound or two which doesn't seem bad except she only weighed 5 or 6 pounds before. Please give me your advice.

Welcome to TheCatSite.

I am so sorry to hear that Gracie has been diagnosed with renal failure.

I offer my caring support at this challenging time.
Hopefully, more knowledgeable members will offer their feedback to you today.

I suggest that you read this whole thread. There are some important links to CRF sites that could be useful to you.

How old is Gracie?
Do you know what might have caused her kidneys to begin failing?

Gracie

Hi, I am sorry to hear about your cat's diagnosis. With all due respect to your vet, I wasn't sure if what you were saying is due to your cats lab results and other issues, he doesn't expect her to live, or if you meant he feels this diagnosis means nothing much to be done.

That is not the case necessarily! I've had more than one kitty live a decent life for several years with this.

Please go to the www.felinecrf.org site, and read the messages at the top of page one of this thread.

Consider joining the yahoo support list whose address I will pm you. You need to find out why she's not eating...does she have mouth ulcers? Is she having nausea and vomitting (did your vet put her on an stomach acid reducer? Nausea and vomitting is common in kitties with crf and depresses their appetite...there is a section on the felinecrf site that addresses possible causes and how to treat this.

Cats do not eat once hungry enough...if they don't eat for a long enough period they simply become anorexic/lose appetite and will not eat. It can take just the right food and/or hand-feeding to get them eating again (trust me, that issue I've dealt with a LOT).

If you do join the support list, be prepared to list the lab results - bun, creatinine, hemaglobin (hgb) and hematocrit (hct), phosphorous, potassium and calcium levels.

The most important thing to do at this point, from what I'm reading, is to get her eating. Next would be to ask about doing sub-q fluids at home (no, it's not as bad it sounds...it can become a 5-10 minute procedure once a day).

Trust your gut...if your cat is showing a spirit to live, it's not time, and there are things to do. If the numbers are off the wall and your cat does not respond to anything you can do, and shows no will to live, then you may want to consider releasing her.

I know this is a such a difficult time, and wish you all the best in making your decisions,

XOCATS - Gracie is around 10 years old. At the animal hospital there is 2 vets. One thinks Gracie may have drank something that may have caused her kidneys to shut down and the other thinks it may have been occuring over time.

PAT&ALIX - Gracie has mouth ulcers, is nauseated and vomiting. The vet didn't give her an acid reducer because she eats just fine while she is there. I have tried heating it up, hand feeding her, blending it into a liquid, and feeding her with a syrienge (which she can't keep it down for more than an hour or so). I asked the vet about sub-Q fluids at the first visit and they said that I would need to give her treatments every couple of days, but when I brought her back he thought she wasn't going to make it much longer and recommended instead of giving her treatments rather make her as happy as possible her last few days. They really expected her to do a lot better after the first (5 day) visit. They were so optimistic and even kept her in ICU overnight for free due to my limited finances and to their optimism that she would pull through. When I picked her up after bringing her back so soon the second time and them treating her overnight again, their attitude was more like its time to come to terms with the situation just keep loving her and praying for her.

I agree with the thought that if I could just get her to eat, she might pull through. That is why I tried giving her food with a syrienge. At the same time if she is going to pass away in a couple days, I don't want her last days spent with me forcing food down her and her throwing up and not being happy. She seems so happy just being here. She sleeps with me every night and now she is laying in the window. And she also drank quiet a bit of water this morning.

I read all 20 pages of this topic and have a question. Ya'll are giving your cats pepcid. Is that prescribed by the doctor or over the counter? I will try the catnip today, though she has never cared for it as much as my other cat.

In the US it is OTC ...

Originally Posted by amiemgm

I read all 20 pages of this topic and have a question. Ya'll are giving your cats pepcid. Is that prescribed by the doctor or over the counter? I will try the catnip today, though she has never cared for it as much as my other cat.

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Yes, it is just over the counter here, but I gave it per the advice/doseage recommended by my vet. Another option is slippery elm bark powder made into a syrup (recipe is on the www.felinecrf.org site, under holistic treatments).

I am so sorry...I can understand not wanting to make Grace uncomfortable if it isn't going to lead to her improving...I do think the felinecrf site would also be informative for you.

plain baby food (no onions added) meat - turkey or chicken or beef is an easy on the sore mouth food that some cats will eat when way off their appetite. If she's drinking, you can also try offering a simple chicken broth (homemade, unseasoned, just broth from boiling some fresh chicken in water).

I had a Tonk with CRF for 8 years. Had to give him HBP meds. My thing was mostly food so I spent a lot of time reading the labels for potassium levels. Just a hint but if you go to friskies.com, they sent me a list of the levels that are not on the labels and I had a REALLY good list of foods. He would NOT eat the renal diet, haha. There is somewhere on the web where there is a GREAT list, if I find it I will give it to you. The other thing I made sure to do was water, more water and more water! The fountains are great but I spoiled him and would leave wide mouthed glasses of water al lover so he felt he was 'getting away with it'

Originally Posted by RKayne

I had a Tonk with CRF for 8 years. Had to give him HBP meds. My thing was mostly food so I spent a lot of time reading the labels for potassium levels. Just a hint but if you go to friskies.com, they sent me a list of the levels that are not on the labels and I had a REALLY good list of foods. He would NOT eat the renal diet, haha. There is somewhere on the web where there is a GREAT list, if I find it I will give it to you. The other thing I made sure to do was water, more water and more water! The fountains are great but I spoiled him and would leave wide mouthed glasses of water al lover so he felt he was 'getting away with it'

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8 years is a great length of time (not enough, but surely better than what many expect when they first hear this diagnosis).

I had a Cat with Crf. She was Pts at age 11. She is the one I wrote a Poem about. She had Sub Q's,Procrit Shots and Winstrol Shots. We did everything Posible for her. I just lost Stormy to Accute Renal Failure. She didnt reay have any signs of it. She drooled sometimes and hated being picked up and would throw up sometimes. The Vet asked if we had any recalled food but ours wasnt on the list. The kitten food was but Sasha never had any so I was lucky. I had Meeko tested to see if her Kidneys were ok after Stormy was Pts and they are. They ate the same food. They also said she could have been borb with messed up Kidneys. I never gave up on Stripe but when she went in a Coma tehre was nothing they could do. I loss Patches to Crf too. I guess tahts what I get for saving Ferals. Stripe and Patches were Ferals I saved. Stomy was Cocos girl and was only 5. Coco is almost 16 now. Tht was Cocos only litter.

Hello!
I have finally gotten back to the site as I have been pretty busy at work lately and I have a question about my crf cat boo. last night in the middle of the night I was awoken by her making what almost seemed to be a coughing noise. kind of like she was going to vomit but without the gagging face she used to make when she would have a hairball or something of that nature. Nothing at all came up and she seemed completely back to normal after this incident but it still scared me. Does anyone know if this is yet another crf symptom or if it could be something different?

To catch anyone up who is interested by the way, boo was diagnosed with crf in novemeber, I take her to the vet to have her kidney panel done every three months per the vets request, she eats exclusively purina nf wet food, with some dry food for inbetween grazing time, she has constant access to fresh running water. She is due into the vet in three weeks but if this is a serious situation I most certainly can bring her in sooner.

Thanks everyone!!!

CRF cats can be prone to having an acid stomach, which can cause a gagging sound. It can also eventually cause problems with mouth and throat ulcers. Another sign or symptom of stomach acid problems can be a "lip smacking" noise that a cat will make. If Boo continues to have episodes of coughing or begins lip smacking, or excessive salivating/swallowing, I would recommend getting her to the vet to have her mouth checked out (you can also check it periodically to look for ulcers, if she lets you.) Many people on the CRF-Support site recommend 1/4 of a 10 mg PEPCID (famotadine) pill, either once a day or every 12 hours, for cats who have stomach acid issues. Don't use Pepcid Complete, as it contains other ingredients that Boo doesn't need. My parent's CRF Angel, Samson, couldn't tolerate Pepcid, and we used ZANTAC (ranitidine) for his stomach ulcers. Zantac and Tagamet are not as safe to use with cats, usually because it's too easy to overdose. Zantac is hard to accurately dose (1/10 to 1/8 of an asprin sized pill....hard to cut into such small pieces!) and TAGAMET (cimetadine), I believe, can cause reactions with some blood pressure medications used with CRF cats, as well as rebound.

While I don't think this is an immediate emergency....I would certainly mention it to Boo's vet when you go back in three weeks. If she continues to do this, I would definitely consider trying to move her appointment up a little.

~~Hugs to you and Boo!~~

Thanks pookie-poo! Before I knew boo had CRF she would make what I would call her "gaggy face" sometimes, where her eyes would bulge and she would gag for no apparent reason, at the time i thought it was a hairball. After reading about CRF I realized that was probably from stomach acid. Once i changed her diet exclusively to the NF food I have not noticed her making the gaggy face anymore but I did not realize that this coughing noise could also be a symptom of the same problem (stomach acid). I have not noticed her smacking her lips but I will get some pepcid, at only one quarter of the pill i should be able to get her to swallow it without her doing to much damage to me! How do I know if she cant tolerate like your parents cat? can it hurt her? of note, she is not on any blood pressure medication...