CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with

[pookie-poo]

Samson continued to have vomiting, nausea and lip smacking, even with the Pepcid. Once we switched to the Zantac, his nausea and vomiting were under control. Near the end, they returned, and we added Reglan to his Zantac, which really helped. You should really ask your vet if Pepcid is the right treatment for Boo. If she has ulcers, Pepcid alone won't be enough...you might need to add Carafate (sucralfate) to heal them. I think it's always wise to run a treatment option past your vet and get them on board. My guess, is that s/he'll okay it, as the benefits significantly outweigh any risks, and it is highly likely that you are, indeed, dealing with a stomach acid issue. Good luck!

 

[ronit]

Hello !

I had this posted in a thread i started but no one seems to be reading it because of the silly title.

Here are the details of her and her blood work
She is 16.5 , only symptom was sudden weight loss (200g in 10 days) she was thin but definetely not so thin

Goes to the litter as usual and always eats with apetite, also drinks water as usual.

Vet said that it should be an infection so she is in antibiotics now for 3 days, SYNULOX, and renal food: eukanuba wet foot, is the only available here, I ordered waltham but should be here next week... she does not like much dry food, so i dont even try. (vet said about renal food )

Can the antibiotics or the change in food cause her diahrrea? (she ate sheba and gournet wet food) i've heard that synulox causes diahrrea... but she never had before, all her life she has pooped hard stuff.

I called the vet in athens (i live in a greek island) and he said that sounds like an infection but it is very difficult to locate their sources and that he do not think that she has bad kidneys because the urea and the creatine are not so bad.

For what i've been reading the urea is high but the creatine not so high.

Well these are the numbers, I think I have now all the medical data (these were done by a human microbiologist as there is no equipment at the vet to do those tests

URINE - 106
CREATINE 2.1
SGOT 28
SGPT 60

WBC 32.0
RBC 6.6
HGB 11.5
HCT 32.9
MCV 50.1
MCH 17.5
MCHC 35
RDW 14.9
PLT 235

Neutrophils ( 1300 – 16000 )
Eosinophils (0 – 2300 )
Basophils ( 0 - 400 )
platelets ( 150 – 400 χιλ.) 137

So what do you think based on experience?

beside the weight loss and the current diahrrea (maybe the meds and new food) she is in great shape and I just want to make sure that is all in my mind.

Thanks again for your help.

Ronit

 

[pookie-poo]

I do have a lot of experience with CRF. I currently have 2 renal failure kitties. My soul-mate kitty, Spooky, had renal failure also. My parents lost their kitty to renal failure a little over a year ago, and my sister also lost a kitty to renal failure.

Based on my experience, what you have described in your post, and the bloodwork that you have posted....I think you are probably dealing with early stage renal insufficiency and probably some type of infection (urinary tract infections are usually the most common.) Yes, any type of antibiotic has the ability to cause diarrhea, as it will kill off normal intestinal flora as well as whatever microorganism it was prescribed to treat. You can try giving your kitty unflavored yogurt to help with the diarrhea. Most kitties find yogurt a very yummy treat.

I don't see that your vet has tested for hyperthyroid. If your kitty eats well, but still is losing weight, you should have her tested for that. I didn't see any results for "T4", which is the test for hyperthyroidism. I imagine that you will need to take Hija back for a recheck, once she is finished with the antibiotics. I would ask your vet to do this test, as it is something that commonly affects older kitties.

I will keep you and Hija in my prayers.

 

[ronit]

Pookie-poo - Thank you very much for your answer.
I dont know why she was not tested for hyperthyroidism... But I asked other vet in athens for his opinion, and he also dont think it is that. Now sadly I do not want to trouble her with blood tests again... at least for a while, we do not use tranquilizer and she gets a little upset of course.
The vet here is more of a rural vet and has learned experience throught the years about pets... they do not even have the small lab to make the tests, he sends them to the island's microbiologist. there is also not ultrasound nor a proper x-ray machine (just an old one)

I started adding a little of rice with a sparkle of chicken to the food to see if we can stop the diahrrea. But they advise (both vets) to keep on renal food / low protein. to avoid more deterioration in the kidneys. it is just a very very early stage of kidney failure, so i am glad we got that on time.
I will take her to the vet and weight her in one more week to see if we have gained a little of weight... beside that she is in perfect condition. If she has gained a little then I will just continue like that. I ordered waltham wet food for renal to see if it is better with her stomach, also in a couple of days i will fininsh the antibiotics so it should be better

Well...Thanks again !

Ronit

 

[ckblv]

My 15-year old cat was diagnosed with kidney disease 4 years ago.
She refuses all meds. It stresses her out to much to force them on her and I won't do it.

I put her on the special food from the vet, which she loves.

I put her on, Feline Transfer Factor to balance her immune system. I buy it on-line from: http://www.luckyvitamin.com/00000028526.html
I also put her on a Feline Cranberry-Papaya dietary supplement I buy on-line from: http://www.herbalremedies.com/acidop...tskittens.html

I maker her a little concoction every morning of: 1/4 can of Science Diet mature canned cat food, Turkey Savory bites and mix in her dose of Transfer Factor and then put 6 teaspoons of the Cranberry-Papaya supplement (which is liquid) on top. She loves it. Her appetite improved and she has gained weight and is holding at 12-14 pounds.

This regime has worked wonders for my precious baby. Good luck to all.

 

[luvmyhimmy]

I will be checking this site and link frequently. We too have just been diagnosed with polycystitic kidney disease. Started with "blood" pooling in the left eye, led to ophthalmologic visit, BP 260 to 280 and diagnosis of "hypertensive retinopathy", which led to chemistries which revealed BUN of 54, creatinine of 2.9. Amlodipine started at 1/4 of a 2.5 mg tablet, and referral to internal medicine at a local veterinary specialist. Abdominal ultrasound showing multiple anechoic lesions in both kidneys (as well as one small anechoic lesion in the liver). DX: Polycystic kidney disease and hypertensive retinopathy. Told common genetic abnormality in her breed (Himalayan). Happy to report her followup BP was 170.

I have loved my cat to "death" by letting her eat Fancy Feast, Sheba, and dry Iams. Hard to believe, at age 17, her diet can be contributing. Now told we have to wean to a kidney-sparing diet. She hates it, refuses to eat it. She will be 17 this month. SOOOO, do I let her live out her life happy with a good appetite, or persist she eats this supposedly life-prolonging food she refuses.

I spoke with a holistic pet store today. I will visit tomorrow and further discuss what we talked about today. The woman tells me that vets are so uninformed about nutrition. Actually the prescription kidney diet will kill them before their kidney disease does. She explained that it is not the protein or the phosphorus but rather the "poor" protein. I want to go with an open mind, but being a faithful follower of doing what my vet tells me to do, this is difficult. Not to mention he has followed her for her 17 years of life, so something is working wonderfully under his direction.

I know I sound completely frantic and jumping from topic to topic...I am just bewildered. I want what is best for my pet as long as it involves "quality" on her behalf. If she lives a year and still gobbling her awful junk food, what a life !!!! But to try heroic measures and her hating every minute of it for 2 more years of a miserable battle of deciding she needs to eat a diet she hates....she wins...no questions !!! I have been down that road 2 times in the past 1-1/2 years. Heroic measures buy little quality time at the pet's expense.

Soooo, with all that above, I already learned the prescription diet is not an alternative, so do I try this holistic diet and pray...or let the poor little 17 y/o eat what she wants for the duration of her life until this illness presents its ugly demise ????

 

[kluchetta]

Regarding her diet - my Tigger really loved her Fancy Feast as well. So much that she was eating it constantly. I finally thought that maybe she didn't love the food that much - maybe it wasn't filling her up. So I've been feeding her much better food (it's always hard finding one she will eat) and the past couple years I've been feeding Merrick, Wellness, Avoderm, Tiki Cat, etc.

The VERY FIRST time I fed her the better food, she curled right up and went to sleep - satisfied at last. Fancy Feast just wasn't satisfying her.

I would try your third option - not the vet recommended kidney diet (sorry), and not the addictive Fancy Feast, but another quality food that will satisfy her and not contribute to making her worse. (I hope I'm making sense, here.) I hope your sweetie does better - keep us updated.

 

[pookie-poo]

Find a high quality food that she will eat, which contains a lower DMA (dry matter analysis) percentage of phosphorus. The current thinking on the subject of CRF, is that low phosphorus is more important than low protein. If you can't find a food that she'll eat with a naturally lower phosphorus, then add a phosphorus binder to the food that she will eat!

Here's some important links for food and phosphorus binders. The renal foods tend to be around .5% DMA phosphorus or lower, so I try to keep below .7% DMA.

Canned food link: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm
Dry food link: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm
Phosphorus binder link: http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...es/binders.htm This is a good link that explains the protocol for adding phosphorus binders to food.

Good luck!

 

[luvmyhimmy]

Thank you bunches for your response. Tiki Cat was one that she suggested and hopefully I will come home tomorrow with bunches of varieties she will like. Wellness didn't work for us, dry anyway.

I especially loved learning that the Science Diet K/D and Eukanbua multi-stage renal diet IS NOT a life nor kidney-sparing alternative. She hates it !!! The woman I spoke to today said "Thank God" she won't eat it.

It is comforting to know that seems to be the concensus among well-educated CRF's on this site. I have to face this vet in 2 months for her follow up when I tell them I am not following their diet recommendations.

 

[kluchetta]

My understanding is that wet is preferred for CRF kitties. My cats eat some dry (Artemis - not the best, but not the worst), and quite a bit of wet, especially Tigger. She's 18.

 

[luvmyhimmy]

I posted last night about newly diagnosed CRF and questions about food. We got Tiki Cat today and so far, so very good, but its new and tomorrow may be a different story. Also bought a couple of cans of Solid God brand. Anybody hear of that.

The woman suggested Kidni biotic (drops 3 to 4 times a day). Any info on that product?

 

[kluchetta]

My cats rarely get tired of Tiki Cat, but it's kinda expensive. There are also flavors they like sometimes and sometimes dont. They really hate Felidae and one of the California Naturals. They also won't eat Wellness Salmon & Trout or Chicken and Lobster. But they like a lot of the other wellness ones. I use my PDA and buy a whole bunch of variety of cans and record what they like. They also all like Avoderm.

While these aren't all foods that are specifically kidney friendly, I'm sort of with the opinion that it's best for the cat to be eating, rather than not eating a food she hates.

Let us know what you find out about the drops.

 

[kittymonsters]

Well I got the bad news tonight. i just adore my kitty vet. He saw Zoe on Friday, put her little face between his hands and said " you are so cute" and kissed her on the nose.

Zoe is young, will be 13 in the end of July.

We did a full work up because in the last 3-4 months Zoe has dropped a tremendous amount of weight. She has gone from 12 pds to 8.9

I was really leaning towards her being hyperthyroid, as her bloodwork was great 9 months agos. Alas, it turns out to be be what is designated as Stage 3 renal failure according to the CRF.org sit in Pat's original post.
Most of her blood work is fantastic, best it has ever looked except for

BUN 47 (15 - 34 mg/dL) HIGH

CREATININE 3.1 (0.8 - 2.3 mg/dL) HIGH

PHOSPHORUS 3.3 (3.0 - 7.0) mg/dL thankfully this is low normal. I feed homemade food.

SODIUM 161 (147 - 156 mEq/L) HIGH I am not sure why this is high, maybe from the water softner?

SPECIFIC GRAVITY 1.020

It says no protein in her urine,but I doubt that.

She does have chronic cystitis and and it appears another bladder infection. Urine drawn by cycto, and has
BACTERIA MODERATE (9-40/HPF) HPFThe plan is to take Zoe in tomorrow for several days of IV fluids, then start her on enalapril and sub Q fluids at home. Vet said that after the IV fluids her Bun and Creat should decrease by half. If so , that indicates a pretty good long term prognosis with treatment. He had a CRF kitty that lived 8 years with SubQ and Enalapril.

If her numbers don't reduce with the IV fluids, the long term prognosis will be more guarded.

At the end of the week I will have more info. I am concerned about the enalapril, because Zoe does not do pills. NEVER. She used to be very good until the old vet gave her Baytril tablet that lodged in her throat and burned her esophogus. She stopped eating for five days. Now, forget getting anything down her. She is fine with shots. Vet said that we could do some transdermal gel for the enalapril Anyone ever tried this?

Once again i am SO grateful for the people and resources of TCS. I would be absolutely freaking out right now without you all.

Denise

 

[pookie-poo]

It sounds like you have a knowledgable vet, who is familiar with CRF treatments. That's a great plus! In the greater scheme of things, Zoe's numbers really don't look too bad! I'm wondering if her creatinine is elevated because of her UTI. My parents cat, Samson, lived for at least 4+ years with a creatinine of 3 to 3.8. You might be surprized by a lower creat, if you get the UTI cleared up. Did your vet discuss the possiblity of putting Zoe on Calcitriol? Cleo has been on it for several years now, and I feel it has helped keep her CRF under very good control. Here's a link with information about Calcitriol. http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...iol/index.html The links on the right of the page can explain hyperparathyroidism, and the use of Calcitriol in CRF, as well as the protocol. A diagnosis of CRF isn't an automatic death sentance anymore. Cleo has been perking along now for 7 1/2 years now, and is still doing great. If there's anything I can help you with, please don't hesitate to PM me. I will keep you and Zoe in my prayers!

 

[pat]

I agree with the above post..it sure does help to have a knowledgeable vet re crf to work with, and I second your looking into calcitriol - I've used it with every one of my crf kitties, with good results.

sending vibes for the uti to clear up and for a good response to iv fluids and meds.

 

[kittymonsters]

Pookie Poo Thank you so much for the link to the calcitriol information.
I didn't discuss this with my vet yet, but I printed out the articles and will discuss with him on Friday/Sat when I pick Zoe back up.

I didn't know about the UTI and upping her creatinine. She is getting antibiotics in her fluids so hopefully this one will clear up fast this time. Last one took 6 weeks.

You and Pat are both right, I am really lucky to have this vet. I drive two hours each way to see him, but he is the only "local" vet I trust with my animals.

He even likes my horse who tried to buck him off last week

. Still said he was a good boy.

Everything I have read through in the last 24 hours has given me hope. That fact that your kitties have done so well really helps me to believe that Zoe will be here for at least a few more years. She is good with injections, so I don't think the treatments will bother her.

I will give an update when she get home. Thank you for your knowledge, vibes and prayers. They mean the world and give great comfort.

 

[sharky]

Kandie at diagnoisis had a BUN of 56 and a CRE of 4.2 she lived for 4 plus yrs without many IV fluids

Glad you are in good hands with your vet

 

[white cat lover]

Bea is CRF kitty now, too.

Specific Gravity of her urine was 1024, after with holding water for 10 hours, it was still 1024.

Blood panel as soon as I can get her in. For now, she's on Hill's K/D with the chicken in it. Re-filling her water bowl several times a day, as she attacks any fountain I give her.

When I re-fill the bowl she eagerly drinks.

Reading through felinecrf.org as fast as I can. It's all so much to take in. I know she's having issues with constipation....I just didn't fully realize it. Will be asking me vet about that ASAP.

Oy my brain hurts!

 

[dawnofsierra]

Sierra's kidney levels have maintained WNL since we began a special homemade diet for her along with supplementation, including extra Potassium. She also takes Norvasc to control high blood pressure. I know just how scary this is and pray for perfect health for your little ones.

 

[pookie-poo]

Originally Posted by DawnofSierra

Sierra's kidney levels have maintained WNL since we began a special homemade diet for her along with supplementation, including extra Potassium. She also takes Norvasc to control high blood pressure. I know just how scary this is and pray for perfect health for your little ones.

Great news about Sierra! Keep up the good work!