or Connect
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Can I show my Bengal as a HHP?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Can I show my Bengal as a HHP?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I bought Simba as a "Pet", and not a show cat or breeder cat. He's neutered, and is a pet. However, I was wondering if I could show him in a HHP class, or would I have to get permission from the breeder to do that?
post #2 of 27
depends what the contract said ... some say no to hhp on pets ... others say that is okay... my thing is the judges from what I hear dont place purebreeds in HHP classes
post #3 of 27
I would check with your breeder. But at the ACFA show this weekend there were some obvious pedigreed cats in the HHP class. The first judge even made a comment about several cats that looked like recognized breeds and that even though they may fall short of being competitive in the pedigreed classes because of some 'fault' like a non-recognized color or kinked tail they might do great in the HHP class. In fact, there were two marbled tabbies in the HHP class and the judge said he thought they probably were bengals, but that it didn't matter for HHPs. There was even a birman that he said would probably do well in the pedigree class if it weren't for the fact that she only had three legs. Ultimately, it depends on the judges. I would go for it if your breeder is OK with it. Its a lot of fun (if your kitty likes it, that is) .
post #4 of 27
I'd ask the breeder first. In Nancy's contracts she has pet oci's are not to be shown. But since Charlie's more show quality, she revised our pet contract to say we could show him if we choose.

So contact your breeder before you put him in a show.

CFA is the only one that frowns on the pedigrees in the HHP class. ACFA and TICA obviously have many pedigrees competing in the HHP because they have faults that would count against them in the championship class
post #5 of 27
Someone would show a three legged cat? Would that be a huge deduction, or not so much?
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
Someone would show a three legged cat? Would that be a huge deduction, or not so much?
I am tempted to say in humour that the deduction would be about 1/4

Sorry I have no idea about the proper answer to that question but am stifling my laughter. For HHP I don't think it's so important as long as the cat is in good condition though.

But this raises a serious point for us, because our oriental kitten is pet quality as it looks as if his face is going to be a bit too rounded, but his breeder was saying to us that if we wanted to take him along to a show that would be great as an experience for us and to just do it for fun. So I know if I want to show him she has OK'd it
post #7 of 27
In the HHP class, the points go to the healthiest, cleanest, most alert cat. That three legged birman was a LOT more responsive to the judges toys/attentions than most of the other cats being shown. She would never be able to compete in the alter/championship pedigreed classes though.

Epona, is your breeder saying its ok to show as a HHP or as a pedigree in the alter class?
post #8 of 27
I'm curious, why would a breeder include in a contract that you can't show the cat as in household pet class?
I can understand why they might not want the cat shown in regular or in alter class if the cat has faults for the breed and/or was sold as a pet only, because they don't want that cat being a representative of what their cattery can produce or because it was a "pet only" contract, but I don't understand why they would not allow them to be show in HHP?
post #9 of 27
I also want to put Frankie my abby in hhp but I have not seen anything close to me that AFCA or TICA has shows at.

I live in rural Nebraska
post #10 of 27
Showing a pedigreed cat in HHp is fine - and GK is right, most CFA judges that have judged here will not place a pedigree cat highly. There is one exception to this 'rule' here in Malaysia though - his name is Oro and he's a beautiful Oriental with a slight kink in his tail. This particular cat always places highly in our HHP rings simply because he's a great big suck up! He always kisses the judges, rolls over the judging table and presents his belly to the judges, and is an overall sweetheart with them! He's about 4 years old now and started his show career at 4 months. Judges like him simply because he looks well loved, has a beautiful coat and is generally an all round great show cat!
post #11 of 27
My thinking is probably a bit old school, but I believe that HHP class should be reserved for non-pedigreed cats.
Breed cats with papers and pedigrees should only be shown in kitten/alter or championship classes. If a breeder of a pedigreed cat has decided a cat should not be shown, there is a reason for it.
I.E. the cat doesn't meet enough of the breed standards or has specific faults. This doesn't diminish the cats worth as a beloved pet, but showing that cat would reflect badly on the cattery it came from, because the judges and people at the show would assume the breeder felt it is a show quality cat, when it clearly isn't.
I hope this makes sense to those who are wondering.
post #12 of 27
Also Hope, even if your breeder is OK with it, you can't show a bengal as a HHP in CFA.

Even in ACFA and TICA, more than any other breed, bengals (championship quality or not) should be VERY well behaved in the ring. So if I had a bengal that reacted the way Duke did this weekend, that would be VERY bad for bengals. If you are in any way unsure about his reaction, I would think long and hard before showing him even as a HHP.

That said, if everything checks out, I hope you have fun!
post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
In the HHP class, the points go to the healthiest, cleanest, most alert cat. That three legged birman was a LOT more responsive to the judges toys/attentions than most of the other cats being shown. She would never be able to compete in the alter/championship pedigreed classes though.

Epona, is your breeder saying its ok to show as a HHP or as a pedigree in the alter class?
I think that is really neat that something like that could be overcome and wouldn't disqualify them automatically.
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
Maybe they wouldn't have to know he was a Bengal. I could just call him a brown spotted tabby. I don't think Simba is show qaulity. His ears are too large for the Bengal standard, although he has a great face and eyes. I also don't think he has a lot of difference with his spots and his back colour, I don't remember what that is called. Oh wait a minute....Contrast. When I purchased Simba I didn't pay for breeder rights, I only paid for pet rights. Actually I'm not one to actually show a cat. I just thought it might be fun, just once. I seriously doubt Simba would be a good candidate, because he's never done it, and he's almost 4 years old. He's not tempermental, but he's not that friendly with strangers, he's really a very shy little Bengal, except with me, where he's a real holy terror. He's so full of mischief that I'm sure he wouldn't do well at all.
post #15 of 27
Come on now, you know a good judge would be able to tell it was a bengal even if you put brown tabby If they can't, then they shouldn't be a judge

I think I'd still contact the breeder first.

Someone asked about why a breeder didn't want their pet quality shown at all. Well its a reflection on their cattery. I'm not sure how to explain it. But it could be like saying "if you wanted to show, why not just by a show cat and show in alter - then make it a pet later".

I think that Charlie's breeder changed the contact for me to show for 2 reasons: (1) Charlie did turn out better as he got a little older (difference of 3-4 months) and (2) she knew I had been active in showing cats, had grands, etc.

She knew the we might be interested up the road. I think that if we hadn't mentioned it before, Charlie would just be a pretty pet.

When selling my rexes (which most were showable, not just a pet), I'd tell people who were on the fence with showing, "if you change your mind about showing and want to show, you'll have a cat that is worthy - rather then the opposite and have a pet quality that can't be shown". Many of my show kittens were living as pets, but the people had a quality cat that could be shown in the alter class if they changed their mind.

Maybe its a thing of pet is pet, show is show. If you want to show a mixed breed or a purebred looking cat you rescued from a shelter - that's different then going out and buying a pet quality cat from a breeder and then show it. I'd rather show mixed breeds in the HHP class then a purebred - they do better

If I wanted to do that, I'd probably go back to the breeder or another breeder and say "I want a good quality cat that can be shown in the alter class".
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Maybe its a thing of pet is pet, show is show. If you want to show a mixed breed or a purebred looking cat you rescued from a shelter - that's different then going out and buying a pet quality cat from a breeder and then show it. I'd rather show mixed breeds in the HHP class then a purebred - they do better

If I wanted to do that, I'd probably go back to the breeder or another breeder and say "I want a good quality cat that can be shown in the alter class".
I have to agree with this!
post #17 of 27
Cool that all makes sense!

Our Oriental is going to be a pet, hence we chose the one out of the litter that we thought was cutest and sweetest, rather than picking the 'showiest' one (the others in the litter all look to have good show potential, and there's a chance that ours will grow into his looks as it were!) I can't see us ever showing anything regularly, what with neither of us able to drive and allergy issues from being around large numbers of cats for long!

Nate has an occassional moment where he thinks he wants to show Radar in HHP, but I have to remind him that if that boy cannot behave for 2 minutes on the sofa at home there is no way he's cut out for the showring! Uh-uh no way am I taking him to a show, I can imagine it making headline news when he wrecks the place and we are sent home in disgrace for having a badly behaved destructicat! It is a shame though, because he is a beautifully athletic and friendly boy with striking markings and big green eyes, I am sure if he wasn't such a livewire he would do well.

In general terms I think I would be much more interested in showing HHPs, just because it's about condition and character and 'awwwww' appeal rather than how many mm apart the ears are iyswim
post #18 of 27
Maybe they should come up with a new catagory like the agility thing, for cats like Radar, 8-bit, Bo, Rocket, Simba and others. The "How fast can the cat destroy a room" event. If nothing else it would be interesting. Let's see... a room with a roll of paper towels, a roll of toilet paper, some cardboard boxes, some shelving with breakable knick-knaks......
post #19 of 27
LOL - would be even better - put a litter of kittens in the room to destroy
post #20 of 27
If you're showing the cat as a pet in HHP though I don't understand how it would reflect on the cattery if you got the cat from a cattery? I mean I understand if you showed the cat in the alter class or regular class and it was not show-quality it might look bad for the cattery but if it's a pet cat and showing as a pet I just don't get what the cattery has to do with it...do you even put the cat's cattery down on the form if it's showing in HHP?
post #21 of 27
Some judges can recognize catteries. Its more of why buy a pet purebred and turn around and show it? If you want to show a pedigree buy a show quality one and show in alter class.

Or adopt out of the shelter. Its hard to explain, but IMO its just not a good thing to show a known pedigreed cat in the HHP. You don't have to put down the cattery name.
post #22 of 27
Oh darn...guess I can't show my brother's Maine Coon kitten after all... I wanted to show him in HHP because I just thought it would be fun to try it, and a good experience for the kitten to help be sure he is used to handling and being in different places (I'd also like to do pet therapy with him.) I am not really interested in getting into the whole "show cat" circle with competing against other purebred cats for the best of the breed and racking up points and grands and all that, I just wanted to do some fun pet-type less competitive showing with the kitten, maybe a couple of times or a few times a year or something like that. I am pretty sure my adult DSH cat would not do well in a show or enjoy it, but since the kitten could start from an early age I figured it might be possible to socialize him and get him used to the whole cat show environment.

My brother was not looking for a "Show cat" when he chose, he was just looking for a good ethical breeder and a certain color/type which is hard to find. I had asked him to wait for a show-quality kitten it might have been another year or more to wait (we've already been searching for over a year for just the color/type/gender and we ended up going with the opposite gender since we could never find a female available.)
post #23 of 27
To use Hope's Simba as an example: If he were entered in HHP in a TICA show, there would be no mistaking that he is a bengal. The judges would know it and most likely spectators and exhibitors who are familiar with bengals would instantly recognize that he's a bengal. He doesn't remotely look like a cross either, so then the questions would begin. Is he pedigreed? registered? Where'd he come from? Why isn't he being shown in alter class?

Believe me, cat show people are nosey and extreme gossips.

These questions and the answers will leave people wondering why he isn't being shown with the rest of the pedigree'd cats. Alot of them will draw their own conclusions and those usually won't favor the cattery he came from.

If Simba should be shown at all, is something Hope could discuss with the breeder she purchased him from. If the breeder gave permission Hope could enter him in Alter class.

I certainly agree with GK, that if you want to show a pedigree'd cat, buy one with that in mind and tell your breeder in advance that you intend show. Most breeders want their best kittens in the showhall for all to see how their program is doing, so a great pet kitten will get the nod of approval from a breeder to be shown.
post #24 of 27
Not saying you can't do it, but if you choose to show a pedigree in HHP, check with the breeder first - if its ok with them to show in HHP, feel free to do it.

I'm just saying that if the breeder doesn't want it shown (for whatever reason), then abide by it

I never questioned Charlie's breeder why she put that pets can't be shown. I had no intention of showing him. Only cause she says he's good enough are we putting him in a few shows. What if anything he does as far as quality/wins will depend on if we show him as an altered cat after 8 months old.

He's really more of our pet - just has good quality to him But I would only show him as a pedigee in the alter class; wouldn't put him in as a HHP. If I wanted to show in HHP, I'd put in a nice mixed breed that I felt had show potential.

Besides, some HHP people kinda resent the pedigreed cats in the HHP class - cause they are too fancy looking...believe me, I've heard it MANY times over the years!
post #25 of 27
I guess I'll just have to forget about showing... It sounded like it might be fun to do but I know I cannot show him in the regular show classes since he is a "pet quality" and we did not pay for a show kitten... I thought it'd be fun to do the household pet showing but we can't have more than two cats and we already have our older DSH and now the new kitten (or we WILL have him when we can finally pick him up), so we can't go buy an actual show cat or another "mixed breed" and at any rate I just wanted to do it for fun and maybe a few ribbons, not actually seriously compete to win titles and stuff with cat bred for show. Ah well...guess I should have looked into the whole household pet thing more before I helped choose the kitten...I thought it would be ok when I found out they allow purebreds in HHP but apparently it's frowned upon so I guess I'll just have to wait until our DSH is no longer with us and try to find a kitten/cat that might enjoy showing .
post #26 of 27
No Neko, please reread some of my posts. IF the breeder of your maine coon says its ok to show him in HHP, then try it. Just saying that some HHP people don't like it, some judges don't care.

I was trying to say that to take him and show him without letting the breeder know, is wrong. And read the contract - it may not even mention one way or the other. MY contract said pets can't be shown. But that doesn't mean all breeders have that in the contract.

When you get your kitty, ask the breeder how he/she feels about putting your kitty in the show and go from there.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
Maybe they should come up with a new catagory like the agility thing, for cats like Radar, 8-bit, Bo, Rocket, Simba and others. The "How fast can the cat destroy a room" event. If nothing else it would be interesting. Let's see... a room with a roll of paper towels, a roll of toilet paper, some cardboard boxes, some shelving with breakable knick-knaks......
Oh absoultely! When Radar is good, he is very very good, but when he is bad he is horrid. I have this mental image of him getting overstimulated and clamping onto a judge's arm sort of like a police dog training scene, then leaping off and pouncing on people's feet and other cats before fleeing the scene and ambushing innocent passers by

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Besides, some HHP people kinda resent the pedigreed cats in the HHP class - cause they are too fancy looking...believe me, I've heard it MANY times over the years!
I can completely understand that, I can see now that I have had it explained that HHP is for 'moggies' and I know if I put Radar into an HHP class (just imagine he was sedated or something LOL!) I would be really quite annoyed if he was up against pedigree cats that didn't quite meet the breed standard for their own classes. I understand that totally
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Showing and Ethical Breeding
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Cat Breeds, Breeding and Showing › Showing and Ethical Breeding › Can I show my Bengal as a HHP?