Diet and care for emaciated stray Queen. Suggestions please (pics)

[savethekitty]

Hello everyone, 

My queen is just so skinny that I was thinking about supplements on top of having increased her food to 4+ times a day (canned adult cat food "all you can eat").  See this thread for more of her story.

I currently have lactoferrin capsules and L-lysine gel that I am giving the FIV stray living at my door and I could add these to the mother's food if it would help her get stronger. She is pure bones when you touch her. It really is pitiful. 

I read about giving her kitten cat food instead of adult food. Also about calcium, before I go on a buying spree and getting something that may cause more harm, I wanted to ask you guys. 

Thanks in advance. 

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• savethekitty
• Aug 24, 2016

 

[jennyr]

Poor girl! She is very thin. Definitely switch her to kitten food and give her as much as she can eat. Make sure she has several meals a day and something to snack on at night. She also needs kitten formula -replacement milk obtainable form good groceries and pharmacies or vets as this will build up her calcium and help her milk production. She might like greek style yoghurt or fresh soft cheese.
She is a pretty cat.

 

[savethekitty]

Hi, thanks for replying. 

I will be buying the Fancy Feast gourmet Kitten canned food and the Purina One Smart Blend Healthy kitten formula dry food. Is that a good choice?

I have some powder formula Petlac Kitten milk replacement powder that I bought a few weeks back. Should I just mix this and give her instead of water? 

 

[Kat0121]

Wow. She is so pretty! I wholeheartedly agree that she should be drinking KMR . PetAg is a really good brand and widely available at the big box pet stores and Wal Mart if you are in the US. GNC makes a good one too. Yes, give her kitten food and give her as much as she wants. She really needs it. You can supplement also with plain cooked chicken or turkey and I'd also add a homemade no sodium broth to her food. It's super easy and cheap to make. You also get a large amount of meat for her (or you) to eat. This is how I make it:

Take 1 whole chicken and put it in a slow cooker. Ad  cold filtered water to cover the chicken. Cover and let cook on low overnight (you can also use a stock pot if you don't have a slow cooker). I let mine cook at least 8 hours up to 12. The broth in the pot is a dark, rich yellow. I shred the meat, skin and natural fat and feed that as a snack/treat/topper and the broth gets frozen in ice cube trays. Then I put the cubes in freezer bags and they can be warmed and added to food. My cats love this!! The meat is put into small freezer bags and can also be warmed for future use. The warm broth is very nutritious and will entice her to eat as will the chicken. 

 

[Kat0121]

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• savethekitty
• Aug 21, 2016

The father (in theory is living at my door as a stray with FIV). This is all speculation, but I have not seen any other black/white cats in this condo. Here is the picture of the possible dad. 

IMG_20160814_151743.jpg

• savethekitty
• Aug 14, 2016

Oh look at them! They are so cute and she is such a good momma!!  That middle picture could bring the devil himself to his knees. That's the most precious thing ever! 

 

Those foods are fine. She should love the FF kitten food. My cats still love the turkey kind. They get it now and then as a treat or when they are being extra fussy. 

 

[StefanZ]

Yeah.  An alternative to kmr is goats milk.  Raw is best, but bottled or powdered full fat is OK too.  full fat here meant 3%, no diet variation.  goats milk is also a little cheapier than kmr.

A little mild cheese.   A little full fat, mild, flavorless youghurt - best here these of turkish or grecian style, they are fatter than the westerner type yougurt.

All these are nourishing, and good calcium sources.

You can crush the shell of a boiled egg into fine powder, and sprinkle some of this powder over her food, alike salt.   One egg is thus enough for a months, so you dont need much.   This is almost pure calcium.

Raw egg youlk to mix with something, for example this goat milk, is excellent. Much nourishmena and good fats.

dont give raw egg white, but cooked egg white is excellent.

If you have problems with salomonella in eggs in your place, you can scramble or boil these eggs.

Some nice vitamine paste is useful too...

Momma is slender by nature I think, but on the photo we see she is clearly emaciated too...  So its alarming.

 

[savethekitty]

 
Momma is slender by nature I think, but on the photo we see she is clearly emaciated too...  So its alarming.

Everyone I have shown pictures of her thinks she is way too thin. When I pass my hand over he back I can only feel her bony spine. 

She is alert but slow, cautious and able to assert herself hissing at my 14lb male when he wanted to say hi. She played a little inside a box I had put leafy catnip in and she was loving it, but then she goes and lays down to rest. Takes care of her babies well and she is eating a lot and many times. 

So I don't know what to think. I think she is doing ok for a cat that just came inside and is suspicious of her new surroundings, I hope since I'm no expert. 

In any case, I am willing to take her to a vet asap if necessary. What do you all think?

I bought the Fancy Feast kitten cans and she has already eaten 2 in the last 5hrs! I kid you not, but they are 3oz. 

Also getting ready to start buying real chicken breast. I will be cooking for this lady, despite being a vegan for the past 3 yrs, there will be meat again in my fridge....all for the cats.

 

[Sarthur2]

You've been given great advice by Jenny and Kat. The Fancy Feast and the boiled chicken and broth will do her wonders. You just need to keep feeding often. It will take her awhile to stabilize her metabolism and gain weight after starving for so long. She does look emaciated.

She needs the calcium from yogurt or kitten formula, or egg shells, as Stefan said, so when you can, add that to her diet as well. The supplements you mentioned sound beneficial.

It sounds to me like she is doing great for being in a new environment! I think she was once a house cat. After fending for herself, she must feel safe inside with her kittens and as much food as she wants/needs. Pregnant and lacatating cats need enormous amounts of food even when they are healthy!

Thank you again for rescuing this family! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[StefanZ]

 
Everyone I have shown pictures of her thinks she is way too thin. When I pass my hand over he back I can only feel her bony spine. 

She is alert but slow, cautious and able to assert herself hissing at my 14lb male when he wanted to say hi. She played a little inside a box I had put leafy catnip in and she was loving it, but then she goes and lays down to rest. Takes care of her babies well and she is eating a lot and many times. 

So I don't know what to think. I think she is doing ok for a cat that just came inside and is suspicious of her new surroundings, I hope since I'm no expert. 

In any case, I am willing to take her to a vet asap if necessary. What do you all think?

I bought the Fancy Feast kitten cans and she has already eaten 2 in the last 5hrs! I kid you not, but they are 3oz. 

Also getting ready to start buying real chicken breast. I will be cooking for this lady, despite being a vegan for the past 3 yrs, there will be meat again in my fridge....all for the cats.

She seems more emaciated now than at the first pics you had a couple of weeks ago.  I suppose its the growing kittens taking their toll.  They DO eat more and more as they are growing...

But so a pronounced emaciation is dangerous by itself.   Cats - and humans, have been known to collapse by sheer exhaustion although good rescuer care.  So its really Red Alert here!.

So you must act vigilant and  vigorously.   If she were found today on the street, I would say, small portions but often.   too much food too quickly to a starved into being directly emaciated is more dangerous than yet another day of non eating.   But here she HAD access to lotsa of food, although perhaps not optimal in all aspects.

So, proceed along the lines suggested above.

Also, begin to wean the kittens!   1. To lessen down the burden on her.  2.   Safeguarding,  IF she collapses...

Get home some clear pedialyte for babies,  AND OR  gears to make your own emergency fluids:  glucose sugar / honey,  minerale water containing  different salts...

Seeing a vet?  Its probably not necessary, if we truly believe the reason is the growing kittens and perhaps not 100% optimal food (food for adults instead of food for kittens and nursing moms).  Which you are now going to work with vigorously.  That said, its surely wise to visit a good vet.  He MAY find some other reason too.  Also, he has surely some recommendations him too, if nothing else so for some suitable vitamine paste.   Vets do have usually something up the sleeve.   So, not an ER vet, but sooner some wise one who has the time to check up, and experience to give good advices.

Last,  my Missus and Government, she is a vegetarian since 40 years,  and no fish nor eggs either since 25 years.  Yet she never has problems with helping our cats with meat.  If they must have such a food, so they must have such a food, and she is their momma, no?

An act of love as good and true as any, no?

 

[jennyr]

Oh just looking at those kittens and how large they are compared to her! I agree about starting to takie them from her. Get a kitten bottle or needleless syringe (which I find easier for kittens) and feed them once or twice a day with 10cc of kitten formula to give momma a bit of a rest. They will still nurse from her but it will help her gain a bit of weight. Vitamin/calorie paste is a good idea - I use Nutrical that you can get from a vet or from online pharmacies. You just rub it on her gums. AND as you asked, I would add formula to her water, or give her chicken broth. MAke sure she does not get dehydrated - that is very possible in her situation. Check by taking the scruff of the neck, holding it up for a few seconds and letting go. If it falls back into place at once she is OK, if it stays up then she needs more fluids urgently, either by mouth or by injection under the skin, and a vet is essential to show you how to do that at home. But she is obviously a very good mother and I hope you can manage to bring her and all the kittens safely through this.

 

[Willowy]

Oh, look at those fine fat kittens! She must be a good mama, but it really does deplete their own body in favor of the babies. After they're weaned she should put on weight a lot easier. But for now, yes, she's just too skinny, and she can't keep up that level of kitten feeding in her condition.

I agree with giving her KMR or goat's milk. That should have enough calcium. Bone broth too. If it's too expensive to give her so much Fancy Feast, it would be OK to give her 1 or 2 cans of FF and one large can of Friskies per day. Friskies is labeled for "all life stages" so it's fine for nursing cats and little kittens (FF kitten is better though). Cooked chicken would be great too. Just any calories you can get into her! And of course she needs to stay hydrated.

Also try to get the kittens to eat solids as soon as their teeth pop through, and offer a dish of KMR for them to drink from. They may not take it at first but make sure they're given the opportunity. Anything that helps to take a little strain off poor mama will help!

 

[savethekitty]

Thank you everyone for your support. 

I weighed her and she is at 7.2lbs after having a can of Fancy Feast. I thought she would weigh less for some reason. 

Ok, here is what I already bought. 

1) KMR Powder formula 

2) Pedyalite

3) GNC high calorie Booster Cat gel (with vitamins as well)

4) Whiskas Cat Milk (just to try a ready milk it is for kittens and adult cats)

5) Chicken in cans (not sure if this would have too much sodium, but I also bought chicken breast that I will be cooking)

6) Fancy Feast and Purina One kitten kibble

7) Have given her a little bit of Lactoferrin and Llysine Gel mixed in her Fancy feast (half capsule content for lactoferrin and a drop of Llysine Gel)

My question is, should I give her the KMR poder formula instead of water. I mean have a bowl with that formula available for her at all times. 

Should I alternate the Pedyalite and the KMR. Like Pedyalite in the morning and KMR at night for example?

Should the cooked chicken replace the Fancy Feast and Kibble for a few days or again I should do all of them at different times?

Thanks again!

 

[jennyr]

Everything there is good except the Whiskas cat milk. It is made to give as a treat, not as nutrition, and has very little actual nutriment. Save it till they are older and then you can give them a little sometimes as a treat. For now, stick to the formula. And for the moment, the FF kitten food is richer for momma than Friskies, which is meant for healthy cats of normal weight. She needs something a little extra. I agree about momma's weight - I would have thought she weighed less. But you and she are doing just fine looking after everyone.

 

[catwoman707]

I would not replace her water with KMR, I would offer her a dish of KMR milk once or twice a day.

Personally I tend to think she is skinny due to lack of good nutrition during pregnancy and now with her kids so big they are sucking her body of everything it is producing to get her recovered from motherhood.

Cats all appear sucked up and look like crap after having kittens, and takes a couple months to recover, and with your help and care, she will be just fine soon enough.

 

[savethekitty]

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• savethekitty
• Aug 25, 2016

 

[Willowy]

Haha, yes, they're definitely big enough now to start on solids. You can mix the canned food with KMR to make a mush for them. They'll still nurse, right up until she makes them stop, but the more solids they eat the less she has to provide. Let them have as much as they want. You'll have to start litterbox training once they eat solid food. And, oh, they're going to eat you out of house and home! :lol3: You'll think they're horses not baby kittens, lol.

Pedialyte tastes funny. . .I've never seen a cat drink it by choice. You can mix a bit with canned food or make the KMR with it instead of water. But it's unlikely anybody will drink it plain. Keep offering the dish of KMR and a dish of water. Maybe the kittens will drink the KMR.

 

[StefanZ]

 
Thank you everyone for your support. 

I weighed her and she is at 7.2lbs after having a can of Fancy Feast. I thought she would weigh less for some reason. 
 
4) Whiskas Cat Milk (just to try a ready milk it is for kittens and adult cats)

You can try and get goats milk, if you want some ready made milk.  Goats milk although thrice as costly as regular cow milk, is cheaper than Whiskas cat treat milk  (but much better, and OK for cats) and probably cheaper than the KMR.

Mild natural Youghurt is another option, especielly the turkish and graecian variations, whom contain more fat.

That said, this here product isnt that bad as long we know its essentially a treat, and if it would be her preferred drinking source, it would be OK.

Yes, cats eating mainly wet food dont drink so much.  But her lactacing, she must drink more than usual, its necessary for producing the milk if nothing else.

A water fountain is useful to get reluctant drinkers to drink more water.  Otherwise, the trick is to have several different plates with fluids, including one with somewhat stale (sic!) water.   There are also tricks to entice. For example, having a little tuna sauce in the water, or a little cream in the water.  Just to give the flavor...

It may be so you will need to forcefeed her water / pedialyte.  One holds, one forcefeeds.  If you  manage it to look as a sort of game you are playing with her for fun, it would be best.  You want this to be a friendly nice routine, not a fight.

Re the weight - 7lb is respectable, many females are less if petite.  But we dont really know how much she weighted before.  If she was well muscled - it could be quite some weight, and yet give slender impression.    Now the muscle mass has been used.

One thing more.  Fats. 

Earlier you gave her food labelled for adults.   The main difference between the adult type and kitten / for active cats, is fat.   Kitten food contains about twice the amount of fat as for "adults".

So its pinpointed - she lacks fats, not only high quality proteins as chicken breasts, but really mostly fat...  And calcium of course.

The yolk / yellow of eggs, does contains lotsa of nourishing fats.  Easiest to blend it with something else.  But if you must boil it, it is still useful.

Boiled, you can use the white too - its almost pure proteins -  in Swedish, an old synonyme for proteins is   the white of eggs...

-" does her URINE contains the white of eggs?  Oh may, that isnt good..."

Some ideas and suggestions to choose from!

 

[Alicia88]

 
Wow. She is so pretty! I wholeheartedly agree that she should be drinking KMR . PetAg is a really good brand and widely available at the big box pet stores and Wal Mart if you are in the US. GNC makes a good one too. Yes, give her kitten food and give her as much as she wants. She really needs it. You can supplement also with plain cooked chicken or turkey and I'd also add a homemade no sodium broth to her food. It's super easy and cheap to make. You also get a large amount of meat for her (or you) to eat. This is how I make it:

Take 1 whole chicken and put it in a slow cooker. Ad  cold filtered water to cover the chicken. Cover and let cook on low overnight (you can also use a stock pot if you don't have a slow cooker). I let mine cook at least 8 hours up to 12. The broth in the pot is a dark, rich yellow. I shred the meat, skin and natural fat and feed that as a snack/treat/topper and the broth gets frozen in ice cube trays. Then I put the cubes in freezer bags and they can be warmed and added to food. My cats love this!! The meat is put into small freezer bags and can also be warmed for future use. The warm broth is very nutritious and will entice her to eat as will the chicken. 

I have so much trouble getting my boys to drink water, it's ridiculous.  I think I'm going to get a chicken and do this and give them a bowl of it every day.  That should help, right?  I mean, they don't appear dehydrated or anything (I don't think), but they barely drink any water.  They refuse to drink it unless their bowl has been freshly washed and filled.  If it has been more than 10 minutes since I've washed their bowl, they won't drink it.  So I clean it several times a day and they'll drink a bit each time.  It just doesn't seem like it's enough.

 

[Alicia88]

 
Oh look at them! They are so cute and she is such a good momma!!  That middle picture could bring the devil himself to his knees. That's the most precious thing ever! 

 

Those foods are fine. She should love the FF kitten food. My cats still love the turkey kind. They get it now and then as a treat or when they are being extra fussy. 

She is absolutely gorgeous.  Those eyes are captivating; it's hard to look away.  So, I don't know much about FIV.  Will the queen have it if the FIV cat is the father?  Will the kittens have it, too?

 

[StefanZ]

 
She is absolutely gorgeous.  Those eyes are captivating; it's hard to look away.  So, I don't know much about FIV.  Will the queen have it if the FIV cat is the father?  Will the kittens have it,

That question was answered earlier.  FIV isnt that highly contaGIOUS, its only through open blood wounds, in practice deep bites.   So its only if he bite her into blood during the mating as there is some danger of contaminating with FIV.

And that strong bites arent that common.   Some friendly males even hardly bite and held her at all, if he courted and she layed down by herself.

So, there is some danger, greater than nil, but not so high either.  The money bet is she and the kittens should be OK.