Started them on raw tonight :D

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ldg

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WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT!!!!!! Here ya go Sally :scratch: :flail: I need/want those little cuties too :lol3: ... pinch, smidgen and drop..... how adorable are those and SO CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the info. :hugs::hugs::hugs:
Aren't they cute? :lol3:
 
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Annoying, right? :rolleyes: And only myself to be mad at about it. :lol3:

3/4/12 Sunday Late night Meal

Fresh chicken. 11 oz of chicken turned into not quite 8 ounces when dethawed (because of the ice/water run-off and fat). I had a small "leftover" package of 1.8oz of pork in the fridge, so just didn't prepare a bowl for Spooky. :( I'm going to have to dethaw two packages of chicken at time, I think. :(

Shel got pork & chicken.
Billy got pork & S&C chicken.
Ming Loy got chicken & S&C chicken.
Everyone else got just chicken.
Spooky got Wellness chicken & herring.
Tuxie left 2 small pieces; Lazlo left 2 small pieces.
Spooky ate 1.4oz of Wellness.

I think Spooky's daily intake added up to 3.5oz, plus a good amount of sardine. :nod:


3/5/12 AM Meal

For some reason, I had HT Pork & Duck dethawing when it should have been NM Lamb. :flail:
I gave Spooky 1 oz of just pork;
I gave Sheldon 1.5 oz of just pork.
Everyone else got pork & duck mix.
Tuxie ate about half of his
Lazlo ate almost none of his!
Shel ate ALL of his
.....and.... drumroll please.... Spooky ate ALL of hers! :D

I gave Lazlo some WL chicken and WL lamb.

I'm sick and pretty out of it, and didn't catch Bill going after other's food several times this morning. I didn't see him throw up, but I know it was him: the vomit had two chunks of WL lamb in it. Lazlo didn't finish eating the WL stuff I put out for him, and I saw Bill there finishing it. :rolleyes: Given the amount of food and the WL lamb, there's no other option but for the vomit to be Bill's. I think he threw up just because he ate too much and too fast, because that cat has a cast iron stomach. :lol3:

I'm too out of it to reliably figure the FT frankenprey for just Shel & Tux, so they'll have to suffer through ground meals in the morning for another day or two.
 
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carolina

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Yep - that's one thing I learned with FP..... I always put extra because of all the water you lose on defrosting.... Even with meat from supermarket, which I rinse and wipe it "dry" with a paper towel, I still lose a considerable amount with thawing/warming. So I always add a good margin for that....
I trimmed the fat before packing so I am not having the issue with it.... Although I am thinking I will have to do some extra trimming with the turkey hearts.... but I did put enough extra for that....
feeding ground was definitely easier on that level :nod:
 

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Aw, Laurie, hope you feel better soon.  Your babies need you! 

And thanks for showing me those cute little measuring spoons.  Since I'm on the hunt for some kitchen scales (yep, so your thread for those too), I'll probably got both at Amazon and get free shipping!  I'm thinking I need those tiny spoons for their Prozyme.
 

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:clap::clap: For Spooky !!!!!!!!!!! See, there IS hope. I am SOOOOOOO sad you are sick, sweetie :heart3: :hugs: :heart2: I hope you get over this quickly.... and I hope the furbabies are treating you well and eating well to make you proud and happy, feeling better :cross: Sounds like a pretty good day overall except for Billy's :barf: Little piggy - knew momma wasn't watching and he knew it :lol3: AND I am sure Shel and Tux will understand that they need to eat the ground meats for another day or so.... they love you and won't mind one little bit :D :clap: :rub: GET WELL VERY SOON :lovegrin: :balloon: :lovegrin2:
 
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Hi! :wavey: Thanks for the get better thoughts. :hugs: It's taking longer than I'd hoped. But I am feeling better than I was! So on the upswing here! :bigthumb:

OK. Yesterday - was supposed to be a meal of turkey heart, then a meal of turkey thigh meat. I just combined the two, and made both meals 50/50 turkey thigh and heart. :nod: I probably shouldn't have worried, but after Bugsy's experience.... :eek: Everything went fine! Everyone ate all of it. :clap: Except Spooky, who ate none of it. :rolleyes: I'm not helping my kitties lose weight by feeding them her leftovers. :anon: I have to start just putting what she won't eat directly into the feral food dish. :lol3:

Spooky seems to be at least back on track as far as coming for meals, going to her eating spot, and eating good amounts. She's being VERY picky about raw, but eating some here and there. :nod:

3/6/12 Tuesday AM Meal
NM Lamb.
It was NOT fun getting Sheldon, Tuxie, OR Lazlo to eat. Laz usually is OK with ground lamb stuff... I had to add water to his to make it thinner, and that helped, but I could NOT get any of them to finish. UGH. They've been pestering me for food. I did give them some WL treats mid-day, but am otherwise making them wait for dinner, which I need to go get warming up. :lol3:

Today dinner is fresh chicken - and beef kidney again. Everyone was fine with it but Shel. So I'm going to give everyone the correct amount except Shel. I'm going to give him his meal in parts - a little chicken first, half the kidney next, then the rest of the chicken. We'll see if this helps him keep it down. :cross:

************************************************

I've only been adding calcium to one of the two FP meals a day. The first time, I only added about half of what is theoretically needed. I've since been adding about the right amount for THAT meal (which is still supposedly 1/2 of what they need, because I'm only doing it at the one meal). There have been almost no poops for two days now.... I'm not sure what to think. I don't know if this is the move to FP reducing poop quantity further, or if they're getting constipated again. :rolleyes: :cross:
 

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Good to see you here hun.... Not having you around is worrisome.... :hugs:
I think the lack of poop is not constipation, just a change of diet.... I remember AC saying that it is very common for cats on raw - and I am sure she is more familiar with Frankerprey than ground, to poop every couple of days or so - even on the third day :eek:
Bugsy pooped on the third day after his diarrhea - I swear I was expecting ROCKS :lol: But nah - just normal, healthy raw poops - I could actually clearly tell what was old/muscle poop and what was the last meal heart poop :flail:
The kitties are pooping way less since Frankerprey - I noticed this with Hope and Bugsy - but they are not showing the signs of constipation - the rock solid poops/straining, etc..... Just normal...... but delayed :lol3:
 
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Well, we'll find out soon enough, right? :lol3: Or in another day or two, anyway. :lol3:

But to address the amount of calcium I'm using. When they were on FT commercial bone-in ground, I was most recently using NV (15% bone - frankenprey target is only 10%) and HT (whole ground prey, but pork - I don't know bone to muscle ratio). A number of my kitties became constipated - Spooky and Lazlo VERY much so. Tuxie and Flowerbelle too (at a minimum). The rest? I can't tell just from looking at the poop whether or not they were constipated or not. :dk: So I added fresh meat meals to the diet - sometimes one or two a day. That seemed to help a lot. :nod:

Right now I'm feeding two types of commercial ground in the morning: Boneless Nature's Menu, and Hare Today pork & duck. So far I've only been giving calcium at one of the two meals a day. This is definitely less than recommended. :nod: I was planning to give less initially - as nutritional deficiencies typically take a long time to develop - because I'd rather err on the side of soft poop than constipated poop (as constipation and related nausea was what put Spooky off of raw altogether, and three weeks later, she's just starting to come back to eating it occasionally).

I'm guessing that I'll end up supplementing calcium in both frankenprey meals they day I serve NM in the morning, and at one meal the day I serve the Hare Today ground bone-in meal in the morning. But we'll just have to see what.... develops. ;)

****************************************************

3/6/12 Tuesday Dinner.


Fresh chicken/beef kidney

Because this morning was NM lamb, and this was an organ meal, I supplemented with calcium.

Lazlo, Tux, and Flowerbelle needed some encouragement to finish, but they ended up eating everything! :clap:

Shel got half his chicken first, then half the amount of kidney he's supposed to have, then the rest of his chicken. This worked, and he's kept it all down! Next time kidney comes around, I'll bump the amount of kidney to 75% of the full amount, but I'll still "sandwich" it between the fresh chicken (or whatever meat is part of that meal).. :nod: :cross:
 

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My goodness - what an ordeal in the beginning of going to FP :nervous: So many calculations... but I am sure once you get it all figured out - things will smooth out and you will be able to serve meals in your sleep :flail: I am right along side of you, Laurie, during this process - just so you know :lol3: :hugs: I also have noticed since adding "fresh organic chicken" to Walden/Wendall's and Perkin's meals - the poop's are not as dry anymore. No more constipation problems with Walden either. I do agree that adding the fresh meat (although with me, that is only chicken :lol3:) seems to help with constipation.... I just have to say again and again - the poops in the litter box are SO easy to scoop out now, so much less and no stink :woohoo: and my cat's are not all on 100% raw, but I am still reaping the rewards in the litter boxes :bigthumb:

I am SO glad you are feeling better :hugs: Not good being that sick and trying to transition cats to FP all at the same time. Continued :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes: for a fast recovery :heart3:
 
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Well, we'll find out soon enough, right? :lol3: Or in another day or two, anyway. :lol3:
But to address the amount of calcium I'm using. When they were on FT commercial bone-in ground, I was most recently using NV (15% bone - frankenprey target is only 10%) and HT (whole ground prey, but pork - I don't know bone to muscle ratio). A number of my kitties became constipated - Spooky and Lazlo VERY much so. Tuxie and Flowerbelle too (at a minimum). The rest? I can't tell just from looking at the poop whether or not they were constipated or not. :dk: So I added fresh meat meals to the diet - sometimes one or two a day. That seemed to help a lot. :nod:
Right now I'm feeding two types of commercial ground in the morning: Boneless Nature's Menu, and Hare Today pork & duck. So far I've only been giving calcium at one of the two meals a day. This is definitely less than recommended. :nod: I was planning to give less initially - as nutritional deficiencies typically take a long time to develop - because I'd rather err on the side of soft poop than constipated poop (as constipation and related nausea was what put Spooky off of raw altogether, and three weeks later, she's just starting to come back to eating it occasionally).
I'm guessing that I'll end up supplementing calcium in both frankenprey meals they day I serve NM in the morning, and at one meal the day I serve the Hare Today ground bone-in meal in the morning. But we'll just have to see what.... develops. ;)
****************************************************

3/6/12 Tuesday Dinner.

Fresh chicken/beef kidney
Because this morning was NM lamb, and this was an organ meal, I supplemented with calcium.
Lazlo, Tux, and Flowerbelle needed some encouragement to finish, but they ended up eating everything! :clap:
Shel got half his chicken first, then half the amount of kidney he's supposed to have, then the rest of his chicken. This worked, and he's kept it all down! Next time kidney comes around, I'll bump the amount of kidney to 75% of the full amount, but I'll still "sandwich" it between the fresh chicken (or whatever meat is part of that meal).. :nod: :cross:
WAIT WAIT WAIT :lol: Tomorrow is my organ day and I want to do the same thing :clap:
So did you do 1/2 of the regular organ amount? Is that what you did? :wavey:
 
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ldg

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I think you had planned to get all of your organs over with in one meal, but I split them up into two meals with kidney, and two meals with liver. EACH of those organ meals is mixed with fresh meat to make a full 1 ounce (for Ming Loy and Flowerbelle) and 1.5 ounce (for everyone else pretty much - Billy's full meal is now 1.1oz) meal. :nod:

The only one that threw up the first beef kidney meal was Shelly. And yes, I gave him half the amount of beef kidney he was supposed to have this evening. :nod: I sandwiched it between the fresh meat with the meal. :nod:

The next organ meal will be chicken liver. Tuxie was the only one that threw up after eating it. So I'll do the same thing for him.

And since Shel kept the meal down, the next time kidney comes around, I'm going to bump him to 75% of the amount of "required" beef kidney at the meal. I still feed him the 1.5 ounces total, it just means he's getting more meat than he will when he's able to keep the right amount of beef kidney down.

Carolina knows, but the others don't - I targeted 3.5% organs in my frankenprey. This is because NM meats use 20% liver. They're getting that 4x a week. Technically frankenprey targets 3-5% liver and 3-5% "other secreting" organ. But because the NM has so much organ per meat ratio, I targeted a smaller amount of total "liver & other secreting organ" in my frankenprey. So at each organ meal, the kitties are supposed to get roughly 0.5oz of liver OR beef kidney. Ming Loy and Flowerbelle get a little less; the others get a little more.

And because most cats have a problem with a meal that is entirely organ, rather than feeding a meal of entirely liver once a week, I split it into two meals. Same with the kidney. And the balance of the meal is fresh meat. :)

Hope that made sense!
 
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carolina

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I see..... Yep, I am giving both Liver and kidney in the same meal.... But 1/2 of the weekly ratio, per meal, of course. So What I am going to do tomorrow, is to give 1/2 of that quantity, the regular gizzard, and some chicken to make up the difference - It's going to be a 3-course meal :nod:
 
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They'll be eating in style! :clap: Just more :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: for the meal. :lol3:

OK.... where did I leave off? :lol3:

3/6/12 Tuesday Late Night Meal

Fresh pork. You'd think this one would be no problem, right? :rolleyes:
Spooky still doesn't want to eat fresh meat. :dk: She had about 2 oz of EVO chicken & turkey.
Lazlo, Tux, AND Flowerbelle needed help finishing! In fact - Lazlo didn't finish.
I had intended to add calcium to the meal because the earlier meal today included organs, and the morning meal was boneless NM lamb. But I forgot. :anon:


3/7/12 Wednesday AM Meal

...and we apparently "paid" for that lack of calcium this morning, as you'll see...

I fixed up breakfast - HT Pork and Duck.
Though Shel loves fresh pork, and used to like the ground pork, the trick NOW to getting him to eat this meal is to give him more duck than pork. :dk:
I gave Spooky an ounce of HT pork. SHE ATE IT ALL! I offered her another 0.5oz (which would have been a full meal), but she didn't go for it. She got EVO chicken & turkey again. (And ate about 0.8oz).
Tuxie left about 1/3 of the meal. :(

I could NOT get Lazlo to eat more than a few licks. :sigh:
Then I found out why.... he went to the box, pooped a HUGE, incredibly stinky poop - the end of which was mucousy green diarrhea. :eek: Well - at least we cleaned him out. The timing is right to have been the kidney from yesterday.... and potentially because it wasn't balanced with calcium in the later meal? :dk:

But he was hungry after that. I still couldn't get him to eat much of his meal. I offered him plain pork, plain duck, and then just gave him Spooky's EVO leftovers.

...and as there haven't been further box visits, I'm hoping that like with Carolina's Bugsy, this was a one-time thing. :cross:
 
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The timing is right to have been the kidney from yesterday.... and potentially because it wasn't balanced with calcium in the later meal?

 
Was it an organ only meal? That could cause loose stools.
 

carolina

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I see that you also got a clear poop-o-meter reading over there :flail:
Yep.... There :cross: really seem to be a one time occurrence.... at least it appear to be the case here :cross:
The green diarrhea has to be the kidney meal - Just like Bugsy's heart meal - it is green because it goes right through them - it passes their digestive system too fast.... And the organs soften the poop big time!
I am glad you got everything out of him though..... sometimes organs can come really handy like that :lol3:
AC sometimes recommends a full organ meal as a "remedy" for constipation of sorts - as it does just that - great unplugger :lol3:
I am feeding a bit more Calcium at organs day, and a bit less at all muscle day - that's what I got from my poop-o-meter readings :nod:
 
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Was it an organ only meal? That could cause loose stools.
No, it wasn't. The organ meals (liver, kidney) are fed twice a week each, both with fresh meat. The organs are about one-third of the full meal. But this is only the 2nd time he's had kidney, and they're not eating bone-in meals (other than ground Hare Today pork & duck, fed every-other morning). I forgot to add calcium to the late night fresh meat meal. The last time he had kidney, I had just started the transition to frankenprey, and they were still constipated from too much bone in the commercial foods.

3/7/12 Wednesday Dinner

Duck hearts. They enjoyed this the last time they had it, and we had no problems with it.
Again, Spooky had no interest.
I gave Shel his hearts whole. He spent a little while trying to figure out how to eat them, but he figured out how to get a hold of them! :lol3:
I thought this would help prevent Billy from poaching from his dish.... wrong.
Shel got some of the hearts Spooky didn't want so he had his full meal.
Lazlo only ate about an ounce (two-thirds).
Flowerbelle didn't open the bathroom door until she was DONE! I think this is the first time Flowerbelle finished an entire meal without at a minimum my just moving the bowl for her. :clap:

I DID supplement the meal with calcium. :lol3:
 

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A pretty good day it seems !!!! :happy3: AND such planning on your part :D :clap::clap::clap: WOW Flowerbelle - you go girl - making us all so proud. I think you are doing such a great job in calculating everything out for the FP - sounds a bit tricky in the beginning anyway. I am SO happy that everyone seems to be doing well and finishing up meals. Spooky - well - it seems we all are dealing with that "ONE" who doesn't realize that they are true carnivores :lol3: Hopefully sooner than later - the girls will figure that one out :D :cross: :lovegrin:
 
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Yep, overall, a good day! :)

I don't know what is up with Spooky. She was on of the original "reliable" raw eaters. :( BUT.... little by litte!

The late night meal was interesting.

3/7/12 Wednesday Late Night Meal

Fresh lamb (supplemented with calcium). Normally loved and gobbled up by everyone.
Tuxie needed a little help to finish. He took a break, and ended up eating some of the meat Spooky didn't eat though. :lol3:
Shelly's chunks are getting bigger, and he really seems to be enjoying it. He was meowing at me to hurry up while I prepped the meal. :D
Flowerbelle needed just a little help to finish up - but she, too, ate some of Spooky's. :high5:
Lazlo.... ate half an ounce and that was it. I tried every topper we've got, he wouldn't keep going! So..... I put WL chicken powder in the bottom of a dish, took one of the pieces of lamb, rolled it in it, and then just set it in the box with him (he's been eating in a cardboard box on the living room floor recently :lol3: ). He ate it and looked at me for more! :D SO... I individually rolled each piece and put them down one at a time. He ate them all, and a few of Spooky's. :dk:

But Lazlo was clearly feeling just fine. We had a massive play session tonight, and he was running and leaping around after that da Bird feather like a crazy cat. :9: :clap:

And Spooky..... Spooky just sat in her eating spot and waited for me to fix her up something else. :lol3: She got Wellness chicken & herring, because she seems to be on a Before Grain boycott as well. :rolleyes:

As to the ferals... Baloo looks great. So do Tabby and Babygirl when I see them. But Little Dot is not so little anymore! She's FAT. I don't like it - but I don't really know what I can do about it! :eek: She's skittish... but if we had the space, I think that little girl would want to be inside. :slant: :sigh:
 
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3/8/12 Thursday AM Meal

They do NOT like NM turkey. Chum and Ming Loy finished. But BILLY left some behind. :eek:
Laz, Shel, Tux, and Flowerbelle I had to do a 50/50 mix with BFF Tuna & Chicken.
Spooky took a couple of licks of the turkey, but that was it. I gave her 1/3 turkey mixed into 2/3 BFF tuna & chicken, and she ate it all. So that's something, anyway. :lol3:
 
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