your thoughts, please (war)

[auburn412]

if this thread is too controversial, i apologize ahead of time and will understand if it is deleted for any reason. i know this could get into a heated discussion. the last thing i want to do is stir any pots, but i am interested in anyones opinions on this matter. i can't talk to my hubby on thsi as he is SO right wing open conversations end up badly.

do you think people in the u.s. are being somewhat passive about the possibility of war? i hear the discussion on this board more so than people i talk to face to face. it seems like in the 80's we worreid about the soviet union bombing us. stored water and canned goods in our basements, built bomb shelters, etc. i haven't heard anyone discussing that outside tcs.

as americans, have we become conditioned to violence and feel ourselves indestructable? are we too confident because we haven't fought a major war on our own soil in so long? did 9/11 not wake us up to the fact that "enemy" can come to us?

my other fear, and i believe i've stated it before... do we really know who we are fighting? sure we have rules of war. do we honestly believe they care anything of those rules? they do not believe as we do. they have their own value system just as we do.

just curious what anyone else thinks on this...

 

[binkyhoo]

I wish i could say something intelligent here, but i just dont know what to think.

 

[angelzoo]

I can't talk to my fiance about this most the time either, he just kinda shrugs his sholders and doesn't want to discuss it.
Some of you should already know my views on this war, and this world as it is if you had read a former post of mine.

I don't think any of us know all the reasons behind this war, or any war, I think there are a lot of things hidden and kept from the public in every country. And I think every country can and does tell lies to it's people.

In short there's nothing we can do. There is no way to weed out all the good from the bad, and being as we are human any of us can turn bad. I honestly can't tell you all my views and strong feelings on this because then my post will be edited or deleted, as unfair as that is, even message board admins have to keep information and views from the other message board users, just as politicians keep things from citizens. Either because it would to too ofending to some, or they would be afraid of others waking up and coming to the realizations that I, and others know.

There's nothing we can do, whether we sit back and watch it on tv, or were actively (voluntarily or not) envovled.

I think that terroist have already started a war, and some places are just starting to stick up with themselves finally.
Part of me thinks those so called allied nations are actually a participating roll in helping these terrorist and is why they don't want to go to war, or take any active part.
Something needs to be done about all this, but no one knows if war is the answer.

 

[hissy]

Are Americans passive? I do not believe so, but I believe they recognize by now that the war machine was set in motion a long time ago, and politics and power and greed oil that machine.

Not to say that this monster doesn't need his day of Reckoning, but the cost is going to be very great IMO before that happens. For the United States to believe that he will just abdicate his position of power and vanish is nothing short of absurd. He has his own circle of protection and he will draw on it. Rumor is he has already started leaking oil underground, and set explosives to blow the wells. The ecological consequences to that stagger the mind.

My thoughts go to all the military and their families, some are so pumped to go to war because they have never been. I remember my father who fought in WWII and it was only recently that he has even begun to speak of the horrors he witnessed, and he was a medical officer in the Navy. I can't even imagine what our men and women are going to face, especially the women if captured.

 

[angelzoo]

Auburn: About your statements reguarding Americans, I do not feel they are true, even as a generalization. Though yes there as some people like that, people from EVERY nation are like that. Your statement to me is like asking the same question "Who here feels that everyone from the middle east is a terrorist?"

But alas, a lot of people can't see that or accept it, so instead they just hate one another. And along comes wars... and the people who encourage them.
The human race is a judgemental species. This isn't about which nation does what or says what, to me anymore, it's about the whole animal that is human.

 

[russian blue]

Originally posted by Auburn412
....as americans, have we become conditioned to violence and feel ourselves indestructable? are we too confident because we haven't fought a major war on our own soil in so long? did 9/11 not wake us up to the fact that "enemy" can come to us?

When war rears its ugly head, it's interesting what the people will say. Especially when these people have never been through war or been part of the horror. These same people, are also the ones who believe that they are indestructable and have all the answers. I can look at all the political views and my neighbours discussing war. But to me it's not real, and will not be real until I physically have been part of it and mentally darkened by it's effects. Sure I can have an opinion and say the US or England or Canada should do this, this and this. But what reality am I basing these views on?

I have been influenced by my peers, media, and political forces since birth. I have been influenced by the fact that I can wake up every morning and be in a country that does not have use for gas masks. I have never heard an air raid siren scream in the middle of the night. I have never had to worry about bomb shelters or have an emergency bag in case I have to leave my home forever.

After looking at my life, I really cannot debate war. I have no understanding of the thing we call war, the true horrors that last a lifetime that CNN or your local news station doesn't cover when it's no longer getting the ratings. I have little images in my TV graphically showing the pain and sorrow, the human cost. I can sympathize, but only to the extent of my reality.

I am a 30 year old Canadian woman who has been very fortunate not to understand the full realities of war, which other parts of the world are often born into. My reality and limited experience brings me to this conclusion, no human - father, mother, or child should die as a result of a political campaign of another country. And whether right or wrong, this is the only truth that I can share from where I stand.

Maybe the future will bring me the reality that I am lacking and show me the horror so that I also can state a rock solid opinion and debate political war ethics - but I pray that it doesn't.

 

[kiwideus]

well said kass.

i really dont have an opinion on a war, but all i want is to stay alive, and to see my son grow up to be a wonderful young man.

 

[lakeriedog]

I don't know if what we are doing is right or wrong, but here's my two cents.
I am an american who served in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm on active duty...now I am a member of the USNavy Reserve (although due to two herniated discs, I am Temporarily Not Physically Qualified TNPQ). Half of my unit deployed to various locations after 9/11.

I believe that we should have taken Sadaam out when we were there the first time, so although I wonder about the timing I don't have a problem taking him out now. I would like some closure with Bin Laden and his followers as well. We should not forget the horrible crimes he has committed against us.

I am now, and will always be willing to give my life to maintain the freedom we enjoy in this country. That includes freedom of speech for those who disagree, ask the Chinese what happens to people who assemble to voice their opinions. I pray that our leaders will not involve us in battles which are not our own, but I am not naive, I know they have in the past, and may do so in the future.

I pray my brothers and sisters in uniform will be safe, and I pray they return to a country which appreciates the sacrafices they are making. Now, that said, I am going to the range to do a little target practice with my rifle.

 

[katl8e]

Bravo, Lakeriedog. Its good to have some input, from someone who's been there. Its easy for most of to sit here, where its safe, and pontificate.

The majority of the public does not have all of the facts, for a very good reason: valuable intelligence and security would be compromised.

I, for one, have confidence in our military. My dad served in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and is an example of the best of our nation. Yes, there will be casualties but nothing to compare with the untold numbers that Saddam's regime has, already killed and is likely to kill, if left in power. Its time to fish or cut bait.

 

[auburn412]

i really appreciate all your responses. i really appreciate hearing how serious people are taking this situation. i am certainly not trying to make light of the situation and i hope no one thought that. sorry if it in any way came across like that. my concern was that many of my peers off of the cat site seem to be passive about the possibility of such destruction and innocence lost with the exception of a few friends in the military or with family in the military. it breaks my hearts to think of those who may die.

i am not saying we should go to war or should not. thankfully i am not a person who is in power to do so because i am not somebody intelligent enough in that area to make a decision.

cindy, i wholeheartedly agree with you. it is of our own interest that our government doesn't tell us everything. to tell us, they tell the world. i also believe without question in the capabilities of our military personnel.

p.s. thank you for putting up with my limitted comprehension of war and politics and letting me talk about this...

 

[angelzoo]

I've noticed, from living in the DC area for years now, vrs visiting back in Maine, people take this whole war, terroism thing a lot more seriously. Nothing has ever really happened in Maine, but DC was part of the 9/11 attacks.
It's a more widly talked about thing down here.
As for my fiance, he seems to have too much trust in some people, I don't care who a person is, specially if they are part of the government or politicians, I feel they probably have some deep dark secrets and I don't trust them more then most people. But my fiance seems to think that until someone tells him to get out of here (leave our home for safety), he's not too worried about wars in other countries, or terrorism coming here again.

I'm sorry that's hard to explain in the only round about way that I can, lol hope you understood.

 

[lorie d.]

This is only my opinion, but I feel if we had done a better job and finished what we started during Desert Storm, September 11th never would have happened, and we would not be getting ready for this war now.

I haven't talked to many people about war, but the ones I have talked to don't want the war and are afraid of what could happen over here. I have several friends with sons in the military. And as a mother, I am concerned about the possibility of my own son, who is an only child, eventually deciding he needs to fight for his country. But if he does end up making this decision, I will respect it.

 

[valanhb]

Politically, I think I understand what this war is about, at least the rhetoric of it. I do think it needs to be done, not just for our own safety but for the future of the region. To my mind, this is more similar to World War II (politically) than Viet Nam, although the protesters would have us see otherwise. I hope for the sake of our military personnel that the protesters can differentiate between their political agenda and those brave men and women serving their country.

Jan, I think I understand what you saying in your first post. Americans and people in general (in non-war-torn countries) don't have any understanding of what war really is. We see it mostly as a political thing and don't take into account the lives that will be lost and forever altered because of it. Most of that is because that is how it is told to us. We won't see the battlefield images and daily death tolls like they did during Viet Nam. Especially us Americans have become so used to safety and security that we don't take precautions for what could be. That's why 9/11 affected us so much. Since the Cold War ended I think we have had an attitude of invincibility. Face it, we are the only real SuperPower left. Russia has nukes like we do, but they can't financially afford to launch them. Most other countries with the capability to attack us are allies. The ones who would aren't developed enough to pull it off, with the exception of China. (Hubby worked with nuclear weapons in the military, and he learned all about this. His best friend is still in missile maintenance, so I do have a decent understanding of this part.

).

I don't think anyone wants to go to war. I don't think Bush wants to go to war. He's weighed all the information that we do and do not have and sees this as the only solution. I agree, Saddam should have been taken out the first chance we had. Unfortunately the UN strong-armed Bush Sr. He had the men in place to do it, but didn't. Of course, Clinton had the chance to apprehend Osama Bin Laden but didn't do that either. He didn't think he was a real threat to the US.

Oh, and this may not be a good place to do it, but a belated Happy Birthday to Lakeriedog! It was just a couple days ago, wasn't it?

 

[debby]

Originally posted by lakeriedog
I don't know if what we are doing is right or wrong, but here's my two cents.
I am an american who served in the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm on active duty...now I am a member of the USNavy Reserve (although due to two herniated discs, I am Temporarily Not Physically Qualified TNPQ). Half of my unit deployed to various locations after 9/11.

I believe that we should have taken Sadaam out when we were there the first time, so although I wonder about the timing I don't have a problem taking him out now. I would like some closure with Bin Laden and his followers as well. We should not forget the horrible crimes he has committed against us.

I am now, and will always be willing to give my life to maintain the freedom we enjoy in this country. That includes freedom of speech for those who disagree, ask the Chinese what happens to people who assemble to voice their opinions. I pray that our leaders will not involve us in battles which are not our own, but I am not naive, I know they have in the past, and may do so in the future.

I pray my brothers and sisters in uniform will be safe, and I pray they return to a country which appreciates the sacrafices they are making. Now, that said, I am going to the range to do a little target practice with my rifle.

That is so VERY well said!!!!!!!

I have a few thoughts on this....first of all, I hate to think of War, as does everyone else here. It scares the crap out of me, especially with the biological warfare that could be launched against us....but it IS necessary in my opinion. If we do nothing.....Sadaam (madman that he is) will only continue to grow in power and make more weapons to use against us and eventually he could be able to overthrow the U.S. So it is best to get him out of power as soon as possible, although I agree...it should have been done sooner.

I have stocked up on water, and am continuing to do so...I also have bought many supplies and stored them up for my husband and I and our baby, in case we are faced with having to spend some time in our home because of dangerous chemicals outside. I think it is better to be safe than sorry.

Heidi...I thought your post was very good as well. I hadn't read it until after I posted this.

 

[lakeriedog]

I am so glad to know there are so many thoughtful people on this site. I wonder if our cat companions have make us that way? I always keep a good supply of cat food, living in earthquake country it is just another part of our emergency supplies. I haven't purchased extra duct tape or plastic sheeting, but I highly recommend pet supplies to anyone who is putting together an emergency kit. It can be rotated along with the other pantry items. PS Thanks for the birthday wishes Valanhb.

 

[justcandy]

War! I believe we should really exhaust all possiblities before we wage war on Iraq. What are a couple more weeks? France really irritates me, but I can understand why they wish to keep pushing for peaceful disarming. I am sooo sad for the Americans that will die waging a war that will probably in the long run change nothing.
As many of you have said, politics is being played out. Candy

 

[hissy]

And so it starts...may God protect us ALL...

 

[russian blue]

I shudder everytime I think what lies ahead.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all, and will every day and night till this madness ends.

 

[bren.1]

like everyone here, i don't like the idea of war. i am coming to the conclusion that it will be necessary in order to take out saddam, which definitely should have been done during desert storm. i think he is a truly dangerous man, and with the money he has, he can help a lot of terrorists carry out missions.

we've given him several chances to disarm, first he said he didn't have any weapons. then, he is destroying some. to me, that means he has a lot more and was trying to appease the weapons inspectors because he thinks using the un is a sign of weakness. he only understands strength and the use of force.

did anyone watch pres. bush's speech? i saw part of it, he gave saddam and his sons 48 hours to get out of iraq or we go in. looks like war, after all. i don't think he's going to leave on his own.

 

[lorie d.]

Originally posted by Bren.1

did anyone watch pres. bush's speech? i saw part of it, he gave saddam and his sons 48 hours to get out of iraq or we go in. looks like war, after all. i don't think he's going to leave on his own.

I watched almost all of the speech and I agree. Saddam isn't going to leave the country within the next 48 hours.