young Ragdoll prone to UTIs, latest culture shows it's "resistant" (MRSA)

cocomom

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Maggie is 3.5 yrs old.  She was born with only 1 kidney (learned this during her spay).  

Her first problem seemed to be "soft stool" which caused a messy bum, and since she's not a butt-licker, I was always trying to clean her up, and sometimes we'd have a potty-patch shaved or we'd keep her britches trimmed as close as we could).  This might be the cause of her frequent UTIs (once a year the first 3 years, which a shot of Convenia took care of).  

Last Christmas she showed UTI symptoms, so we had to take her to the Vet ER which didn't use Convenia, and she was given a 2 week Rx of Clavamox instead.  Her urine was a bit dilute at that point, and she'd just started drinking water (which she hadn't been doing since being put on canned food only with water stirred into it).  

A month later, I took her back to the regular vet to make sure the infection was cleared, and her urinalysis showed that it had indeed been cleared.  But again, dilute urine.  Ran blood tests and everything was fine (late January).

She continued with the water-drinking, and finally I decided she needed more tests because of it.  This was in April.  Blood tests this time showed an increase in BUN and Creatinine.  Urinalysis showed a "raging infection" (but she'd had NO symptoms), and she was given a shot of Convenia.  Maggie hated the vets there--she'd had 3 surgeries (the first spay, the second spay to get rid of the "missing" ovary not found at first spay, and another the next day to repair her tear of incision), and they no longer treated her very nicely (though what can you do with a fractious cat?), so I decided to switch to a holistic vet in hopes of maintaining her kidney function and to get to the bottom of her chronic UTIs.  The other vet was like "what do you want me to do?" (I don't know, that's what you're for, isn't it?).  

I took her to the new vet office in mid-May.  They did a urinalysis which showed no infection but it was dilute.  There were a few spots of blood, likely from the needle, and we sent it off for culture, just to be sure.  Culture was fine in May.  

So, now.  I just had a hunch the other week that I should have Maggie's urine tested again (since last UTI she didn't show any symptoms, and I was surprised she had it), so I took her in for a urinalysis.  She did have a UTI, and they started her on Clavamox and sent a sample for culture.  NOW, they say it's a resistant bacteria.  Just got the word before the holiday weekend.  The vet said to keep her on the Clavamox until her could consult with the vet school about what medicine to try her on.  He warned me that any of the big guns for treating MRSA would be hard on the kidneys.  But not treating her isn't an option, is it?  I don't know what to do.  I haven't heard back from him yet.  

Meanwhile, I'm thinking that even with successful treatment of this infection, what's to keep her from getting more......  I need to stop the source of the infections (assuming it's from the messy bum and not something else), so I started researching about firming up her bowels.  I read on here somewhere that some have had success with products from vitality science, so I'm about to try that.  I've tried other probiotics, forti-flora, pumpkin, kitty fiber.  Right now she's on Proviable between ABX doses and also Standard Process Renal Food for kidney support.  

She's currently on grain-free canned food from Fussie Cat (and we've tried other high-end foods, too).  I'm thinking of trying raw....

I just need to vent to some other kitty folks.  My husband is too stressed with work right now to burden him with these worries.  If you have any ideas or suggestions for me, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for reading,

Tab
 

mrsgreenjeens

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So she's had loose stools her entire life?  I thought she had them in the beginning and that  got resolved, but I guess not?  And nothing you have tried has changed that in the least?  None of the probiotics, not the pumpkin, not the added fiber. other foods?   If you've researched a raw diet, then you probably know that the stool consistency on raw is normally very small, and VERY dry, so that might, indeed, solve THAT issue.  BUT, with her possible kidney issues, I would suggest NOT using bone, but instead using egg shell powder for your source of calcium if you go this route.  I have a kidney cat, and when she was first diagnosed we had just started feeding raw, so this was thoroughly discussed with our Vet.  She felt feeding raw was fine, as long as we did it as I just mentioned. 

Now, for the UTI issue, Clavamox is much better than Convenia at resolving UTI's for one thing.  Once you get this one resolved, if she ever gets another one, I would suggest only using Convenia as your last ditch effort.  We used Convenia on our girl simply because she is impossible to pill, but it did NOT get rid of her UTI with one go round.  

So I'm sure you are aware that stress can be a major factor in cats getting UTIs.  You mentioned your husband is majorly stressed right now.  Is it possible Maggie is picking up on HIS stress?  Or is there anything else that's been happening since around Christmas time which might be causing her some stress....another pet, remodel, outside construction, etc.?  Anything different can cause cats to become stressed.  Even a change in litter could do it, or rearranging the furniture.  Just in case she IS stressed, maybe this article will help:  http://www.thecatsite.com/a/six-surefire-strategies-to-reduce-stress-in-cats

So she actually has MRSA, or a resistent bacteral UTI?  Whichever, I guess it's not important, really, as long as they can pinpoint exactly which antibiotic she needs in order to eradicate it.  I'm thinking it's a good thing she's on that Renafood to beef up her one kidney.  You're kind of in a catch 22 here


I wish I could offer you some sage advise, but alas, all I can do is be here to listen to you "vent".   Maybe someone will come along with some brilliant to add!
 

artiemom

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Doe she really have MRSA? I heard, thru my own Vet that cats can be MRSA positive and 6 weeks later the bug runs it's course and they are negative again. My Vet said it was very rare for a cat to have MRSA.

Yes, the treatment is very hard on them.

The only way to know is through a culture. Then you can get the appropriate treatment for kitty. I guess if the culture came back as drug resistant, then is it really MRSA? There has to be something you can do. 

Is there a specialist hospital near you? I would think they could help out a lot. 

I know because Artie bit me, and I developed a MRSA infection. 

I cannot blame Artie because he just came home from having a dental along with an extraction. He was high on pain meds, was so happy to be home and was hungry.

He was rubbing my legs, purring so loud, when all of a sudden he hauled back and bit me on the ankle!

I did not yell at him, because I knew he was flying, but I said 'little so and so". I forgot all about it until about 10 days later when my ankle was bothering me. It was hot, inflamed and felt funny. I looked at it and saw all the redness and infection. The fang bit was already healed over. 

I went directly to the ER. Had to have it cultured. It came back as MRSA.

I had Artie cultured at the Vet. He came back positive also.

Since I work in a hospital (see many MRSA patients), and was a caregiver for my elderly father who was in and out of the hospital a lot., we do not know if my dad infected me, if I got it at work or on the train, or even if  I infected Artie or if it was vice versa. 

I got the meds for Artie, but never went thru it. 

Now, at my Vets, they do examine him with gloves. 

I turned out to be MRSA positive. Before I had shoulder surgery I had to be re-tested (cultured). So Artie and I could be sharing it back and forth. I have not had any more issues with this as of now (fingers crossed) and Artie has always been fine. In fact he had another dental in March and had no issues at all...

I am telling you this story because, if in fact, your cat has MRSA, you should be tested also. It is important to know, just in case you need surgery or have a would which does not heal or a prolonged rash...

I do not know if this is helpful or not....sorry if I scared you or rambled....
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi Tab.I'm sorry your kitty is struggling.hi to the other members as well.Alot of good input.may i suggest you join the feline flutd group.they have yrs experience with almost every type of uti,urinary issue there possibly can be.Also crf kitties and dealing with raw diets too.A urine test when it comes back showing bacteria it has to be cultured & then a sensitivity test done.to show just what med will kill it.clavamox is handed out IMO too much before or not even with a sensitivity test being done.the flutd group will guide you as per testing procedures.What is supposed to happen.What goes wrong with dilute urine & testing urine for bacteria etc.i could go on & on.their link & pls put when subscribing just what your baby is dealing with.They are a small group but have over 30 yrs dealing with alot of things.I agree with what others have said here to you.but I have seen a wrong antibiotic administered from veterinarian failure only to go up into the kidneys.Not good.their link is  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FLUTD/info HTH Keep in Touch C.
 
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cocomom

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Thanks for the replies and letting me "vent".  Yes, I know kitties are good at picking up our stress....unfortunately.  

The urine was cultured and shown to be methicillin resistant staph (however you spell it) intermedius, or something like that.  I still haven't heard back from the vet, so I will call them this morning.  Oh, Artiemom--I pray that could be the case with Maggie!  Some questions for you--you ARE positive but you did fine with your surgery, etc.?  Reason I'm freaking right now is my husband is going to have to have oral surgery next month.  And Artie--he was never sick with it, just a carrier?  Don't worry, I've already scared myself silly.....

Thanks Momofmaxwell for the info about the FLUTD group.  I'll check them out.  
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi CocoMom.i'm sure you have read everything you can online about that infection but thought I'd send this link your way anyways.Hope you're baby is better soon.Hugs C.

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artiemom

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The urine was cultured and shown to be methicillin resistant staph (however you spell it) intermedius, or something like that.  I still haven't heard back from the vet, so I will call them this morning.  Oh, Artiemom--I pray that could be the case with Maggie!  Some questions for you--you ARE positive but you did fine with your surgery, etc.?  Reason I'm freaking right now is my husband is going to have to have oral surgery next month.  And Artie--he was never sick with it, just a carrier?  Don't worry, I've already scared myself silly.....

Thanks Momofmaxwell for the info about the FLUTD group.  I'll check them out.  
Hi, Artie never had any symptoms. I think it was an oral/nasal swab culture on him. 

Two weeks before I had my surgery, Since I had a MRSA infection a couple of years ago, I went to my doctor who did 3 days of cultures. It was a nasal swab, once a day for 3 days. That came back positive. I was working in a hospital with constant patient contact. The majority of hospital workers are MRSA positive, from treating all the positive patients. I had to use an ointment for, I think a week or maybe 2, then have another culture back. That came out negative. I had to reschedule my surgery for 2 weeks, until this was straightened out. They also gave me IV antibiotics during surgery.

That is why we do not know who infected whom. My dad was in and out of hospitals, did a stint in a rehab/nursing home which was horrible. Towards the end, he was getting bed sores which would not heal. I work in a hospital, took care of lots of MRSA patients, and I was taking the train to and from work. Artie came from an home where both his owners were elderly and passed...so who knows where it came from. MRSA is so widespread. You never know who has it. 

I am MRSA positive, so I always have to be tested before surgery. I never bothered to follow-up with Artie. 

I would just suggest, take a deep breathe.  MRSA is exceptionally common. It used to be considered really bad, but now it is more of a nuisance. 

Take care of your kitty. Join the FLUTD group. It is a good one. There is also a Renal group. 

If you are really upset about you husband having surgery, just ask his PCP for the nasal swab tests. Then you will know. And tell the dentist. Have him or someone prescribe antibiotics either before or after surgery. 

Mine was a completely different situation. I got MRSA after I had a bite from him. It went thru my work ankle sock. I wanted to know if Artie was a carrier or not. He was never sick. Not even after his dental. So I guess he got it from me. Where I got it from, I do not know. Most likely it is from work. 

BTW, my surgery was an arthroscopic procedure on my shoulder.

Good luck and ((hugs)))


Cindy
 
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cocomom

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Okay, spoke to the vet and have a bit more information.  It's not "MRSA", it's "MRSPi" (methicillin resistant staph. pseudintermedius) which means better news for the humans in the house!  The ABX that's indicated for it is called Trimethoprim sulfa-something (TMS), or Tribrissen trade name (Bactrim or Albon in human meds).  It's hard on the kidneys, so that's why he wants to check with the vet school on how to proceed.  

Thanks for the extra info.....

T
 

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Hi.Just so happens i just had a friend who's kitty was diagnosed with E Coli in the urine.She was stage 3 Ckd & 17 yrs old.Had many bouts of cystitis through out her life.She is a member of the Yahoo FLUTD group   .What I must tell you & I will send you a link it made her thyroid crash.Metabolism now was at a snail's pace.This link is for dogs only as tests have not been done for cats.Also creatinine was elevated.I dealt with her personally as her kitty dealt with chronic constipation for yrs.This is what I do help people with Mega Colon & chronic constipation.Pls join the group & talk   Ok?  .The drug  did not cure the ecoli bacteria either.Retested and was at over 100,000 WBC.I haven't followed all your posts with your lovely ragdoll.(I love Ragdolls) I love them all actually.But I think you hearing it first hand how she dosed it.Your kitties ailments & just sharing you may be able to get a better perspective of this medication.You'll never see anything written on paper.Thus these groups & sharing info.I believe she went with a compounded form,but don't quote me on it.Although two different bacteria's we are dealing with i think you need to know what vets won't tell you.If you join just stating you have been prescribed this med for your baby she may reply.Unfortunately for privacy reasons i cannot name her,but hopefully she will see your posting.

http://www.vetinfo.com/sulfamethoxazole-for-dogs.html Hope that helps your little one.Hugs C

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FLUTD/info
 
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cocomom

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Thanks, MomofMaxwell.  I've had a response on the FLUTD board and someone there who just lost her kitty told me she'd used the drug on that kitty and it made her thyroid crash--maybe it's her.  What won't vets tell me?  

I don't know if I can get this med in Maggie anyway.  I wasted 2 of them tonight--they left her in foam and me in tears.  I didn't realize at first this was one of those nasty-tasting meds, so I mixed it in her food like I did with the clavamox, but she quickly backed away from it.  I then put the ¼ tab into a small gel cap and tried to use a pill gun to get it in, but she's 100 lb of feral cat when it comes to making her do something she doesn't want to do.  First attempt didn't work and started to dissolve, so I had to put it into a new capsule and try again.  This time she bit into it and got a taste of it and the foam commenced.  There was no further trying after that.  Maybe it's an omen.  Doesn't seem right to force a cat to take something that might make it worse.  But if she doesn't get treated, it might kill her, too (by damaging the kidney further?)?

Thanks.

Tracey
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi Tracey.Did you ask the member from the Flutd group if she had it compounded into a liquid syringeable flavored form? Or if she used pills as well? i know she also used empty gel caps for many meds.What I can tell you is that Her kitty was is stage 3 ckd.her creatinine rose to the 4's.She was showing no symptomology of having the ecoli bacteria it was just found by fluke on a routine urinalysis.Still she wanted it to be solved.Another member of another group the feline pancreatic group also had her kitty on the same med.Her kitties thyroid went hypo as well.After two weeks of no dosing her thyroid levels came back to normal.I just wanted you to be aware that hypo can happen & is rare in cats.hyper T being way more common.But you have to do what is best for your kitty.Her kitty did not pass from this med.Other complications of no cure of the ecoli etc.I know she asked about all antibiotics that this strain was sensitive to to try to find the least harmful to her kitty.Some are even worse than this one.She was just going to try another a lot worse for the kidneys but she passed away.She is a very good friend of mine and super in the knowledge dept.So if your vet says this strain is only sensitive to this med at least you can know that if she becomes lethergic,inappetant etc.this can be the thyroid levels.Talk to your vet.this member had many times throughout her kitties life have to syringe feed her etc.So inappetance can happen.Also diarrhea or constipation from slow GI movement.But you have to do something.you may want to ask your vet if it can be compounded into a flavored liquid form if syringeable as these compounding pharmacies (which I have used as well) can almost make anything more tastey than say pepcid.Which will make the puke literally.I'm glad you joined Tracey as they are a wealth.talk to your vet.i'm sure there is an answer i just wanted you to know what I learned and have read with friends who used it.your vet should have told you it tastes like crap before he /she gave it to you.they do need to get on board.Hope your baby is feeling better real soon.You can do this.If I had to stop medicating my babies i had in my life because they were sick and I didn't want to I would not have had my 17 for very long in my life.We do what we have to.We do what we do because we love me.That's it.C. Unintentional typos....
 
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cocomom

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Thanks for the pep talk.  Just spoke with the vet office--they suggested dissolving her ¼ tab into tuna or clam juice and syringing it into her mouth.  They said the flavored liquid it could be compounded into probably wouldn't be any more palatable, and I'd still have to do it this way.  I'll try it tonight with my husband's help.
 

momofmaxwell

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Hi CocoMom.here's hoping you can get that into your babe with as little stress as possible.thus the problem with syringing.Slow & easy.We don't want them to get a learned aversion to a syringe.So this is like a 21 day treatment right? You are supposed to keep tuna juice or clam juice ready just for that?Hmm Anyways like i told you on the other group if a no go compounding pharmacies are excellent IMO.The pill would have to crushed up to such a very fine powder and use a syringe that won't plug up.What solutions pharmacies use is way beyond our imaginations.But certainly give it a go.Hugs and glad you Joined & Met my friend.C.
 
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cocomom

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We had success!  I put the broken tablet pieces into a gelcap and using a Buster (?) pill shooter (with water chaser inside), we were able to dose Maggie.  Whew.  And I get to do it all over again in 10 hours, LoL.  Hopefully we'll get better at it.  Mary convinced me not to try it the vet's way of dissolving in tuna juice.  The more I thought about it, I knew she was right.

I sure appreciate everyone's kind help on these helpful forums and groups.  

Tracey
 

mrsgreenjeens

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How did the 2nd dose go?  I agree that trying to give a bitter pill in a little tuna or clam juice just make it ALL bitter
.  Been there, tried, didn't work.  Also agree that when you compound something bitter, it still taste slightly bitter.  Been there, done that too.  Still had to mix it into something really stinky, and  STILL my boy would only eat it ONCE in AWHILE.  With this med, you have to make sure she gets it, so pilling in the gel cap is really the only way to go. 

Worse case scenario, hire a Vet Tech to come over and give it...that's what I would have to do
.  My little 4 lb girl has the jaws of a 100 lb pitbull
 
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cocomom

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LoL, Mrsgreenjeans.  That's how we describe Maggie--a docile 8 lb Ragdoll turns into a 100 lb feral cat when at the vet or when trying to force something on her.

We're still managing to get the the pill in her, though it takes a few tries, and a few lost doses which I need to remember to ask the vet for a few more pills.  The pill shooter with water in behind the pill is amazing!  I'm still scared of hurting her while doing it, though--of "shooting" the pill too far back, but then if I don't aim for that, it doesn't get in far enough and she pokes it back out. Guess I need to watch a few more youtube videos of it.

The last two nights since starting the med, Maggie has thrown up clear liquid, but she doesn't do it in the daytime.  I'm guessing because at night she goes longer between meals and "nibbles" that were instituted for various supplements like her kidney stuff and the probiotics.  I'm thinking tonight I'll set the alarm and get up for another nibble around 3-4 am and see if that helps.  Lordy, every time I go in the kitchen The Foodie (Coco) comes running, sliding into doorjambs and cabinets.  Gonna be a hard habit to break when this med is over (since I have to give to him what I give to her--otherwise, he gets really jealous).  

Is there anyway I can change the title of my thread?  I wrote "MRSA" but it's actually the animal "cousin", "MRSP".  

Thanks!

Tracey
 

duncansmommy

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I read somewhere once that Ragdolls don't tolerate wheat well. I've noticed with my own that too many treats with grain give him the poops. Especially wheat. 

Having said that, my male Ragdoll (4 years old) has urinary issues too (crystals) and when he gets bad it also gives him diarrhea. So those two things might be linked. Hope your baby girl is doing well!
 
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cocomom

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Hi Duncan's mommy.  Thanks.  

My male Ragdoll (now age 5) sneezed constantly when we first got him.  When I switched him from a food with grain to grain-free, his sneezing was reduced by 50%.  The rest stopped when I switched his litter to Dr. Elsey's.  I guess I need to re-read the labels on their treats (which are actually supplements for either renal, urinary, or the lysine ones, usually by Vetri-science).  
 
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