World war III continues - any suggestions

[hersheys mom]

I have 2 cats. Minja, a Heinz 57 Tortie who is 3 yrs old, and Hershey Rose, a feral Burmese who I adopted in Sept and is now a lap cat. Minja was welcomed into my home in July of last year, Hershey Rose came in Sept. HR was given her own room, potty, toys, etc. She was trapped by the Humane Society, and fostered the next day (for 2 months). When I got her, she had chronic diarrhea. It did not stop, and I did not know the cause, so I felt it best to keep them separated until I was sure HR had a clean bill of health. Switching her from store bought food to raw took care of the problem in 24 hours. I make HRs food myself, but Minja won't go near it, and if I try mixing a little in her junky Friskies she won't eat the food at all. Whether or not their diet has anything to do with my current problem is a mystery to me, but I thought I'd give you a brief background.

Since I got Hershey Rose, Minja would stick her long legs under the door to her room, which I thought was cute (boy, was I wrong!) Sometimes she would "talk" through the door. But HR was terrified of everything, including me, so I thought it best to keep her alone for a while. After 3 months of one-on-one playing, talking, and touching, HR seemed ready to leave her small world and explore the house. On Christmas, I opened her door. Minja just sat and watched her, but she would not come out. So I stopped trying to encourage her and let her come out when she felt ready. Slowly she explored her new world. Minja just sat in her cat tree and watched. I made sure Minja saw me interact with HR, and HR saw me play with Minja. A few weeks later Minja suddenly lunged at HR and chased her all over the house. She ran into her room, terrified. I went in and calmed her down. The second time it happened (a few hours later), Minja got a stern warning. The third time Minja spent 15 minutes in time out in the bathroom. Minja did not want HR to come out of her room. It is now almost 3 months since they have both been out at the same time. Minja continues to harass HR constantly, except now HR won't take her crap. They chase each other, hiss and growl, and, on occasion, swipe at the open air over each other heads. They have never actually gotten physical, but this is definitely not play. I can get Minja on one arm of the couch and HR on the other at the same time if I am between them. I will give them a treat at the same time, one treat in each hand, for each cat, who are on opposite sides of me. They get equal attention. But still it is Minja, about 90% of the time that starts the fights. Minja sleeps with me on the bed, HR now sleeps under the bed and not in her room, so they can get along when they want to. They will both sit beside me at the same time, as long as I am in the middle. When Minja chases HR, she usually comes running over to me. When HR starts the fights, Minja usually walks away. Minja is a sweet girl, who loves to be petted and played with. HR will let me pet her when she is in the mood, but does love to interactive play. HR is still coming out of the feral shell, but making great progress. All I want is some peace in the house. I know you can't force cats to get along or even like each other, but this constant fighting has got to stop. I spend equal time with each cat. I use Peacemaker essence by Jackson Galaxy. I use Feliway. Soon I will be using Xanax because they are driving me nuts.

Please help. I'm out of Valium.

Lei-Ann

 

[catspaw66]

i really don't know what to tell you, other than mine squabble quite often. I have even seen best buds Julie and Sheba swatting at each other. They have lived in the same house for over a year. You say it has never gotten physical.  That is a good sign there.

Since HR is an ex-feral, I think they are doing fairly well together. 

 

[txcatmom]

Sounds like pretty normal multi-cat home stuff to me.  If it has never gotten physical, I wouldn't call it fighting.

See those little darlings snuggling in my avatar photo?  They are good friends...but there is hissing and growling here every single day.  (Well, hissing every day, growling occasionally.)  Like you, I try to encourage peace with things like feliway.  But siblings will have their tense moments.  I just watch for signs of a problem between them.  In my mind these signs would include things like...

*Is one cat hiding from or intimidated by another?

*Is anyone showing classic signs of stress like avoiding the litter box or over grooming?

*Is one cat always doing the chasing or do they take turns?

*Are they getting into biting and scratching fights where blood is drawn?

So far the answer is no at my house.  I think they enjoy having other cats around despite tense moments. 

It sounds like your cats are making progress.  I think it sounds like a good sign that HR is letting Minja know what her limits are.  And the feeding of treats in the presence of each other, when they are being peaceful,  is always a good thing.

Also all of my four cats enjoy playing chase each other games.  I wonder if at your house Minja enjoys it but HR doesn't.  I think it could be that Minja is wanting to play that way, but not HR.  Or maybe HR enjoys the chase but not being cornered at the end of the chase.  (I have one like that....she enjoys the chase but not the tackle her brother will add on at the end.) 

If one of yours seems more the victim in the relationship, you can help build her confidence by providing wand toy type interactive play for her.  When they "hunt" and "kill" the toys it makes them confident.  If one of them is more the aggressor this type of play helps get out some of that aggressive energy too.  Good luck with them. 

 

[flintmccullough]

I-can-tell-you-how-to-fix-this,but-ya-now-gotta-get-"pretty-stern"-with-Minja,as-she-was-the-original-aggressor,and-this-has-been-allowed-to-go-on-too-long.It-should-have-been-nipped-in-the-bud,from-the-beginng,now-both-kitties-are-jerking-your-chain,lol.

Not-at-all-blaming-you,lol,you-didn't-know.

I-show-and-have-new-kittens-come-into-the-household,so-I-am-pretty-used-to-it.

Basicly-what-is-going-on,is-whenever-a-new-kitty-comes-into-the-household,there-is-a-reshuffling-of-the-pecking-order.Sometimes,the-head-man-stays-at-the-top,sometime-he/she-falls,and-even-sometimes,the-new-one-becomes-head-man.

When-its-just-a-one-kitty-household,and-a-new-one-comes-in,the-new-one-gets-their-nose-out-of-joint,and-trys-to-assert-theirselfs,as-staying-on-top.If-the-new-one-is-timid,it-just-gives-the-resident-one,more-power,such-as-a-bully.

Reshuffling-is-fine,asserting-ones-position,is-fine,but,they-need-to-learn,from-the-head-of-the-pride,that-is-you,that-no-fistfighting-is-allowed.In-fact,it-will-not,be-tolerated.And-as-the-head-of-the-pride,you,asserts-their-power,as-the-momma-kitty,teaches-the-young-ones-manners,its-the-same-principal.

When-new-kittens-come-into-the-household,in-most-cases,-a-stern-voice,and-the-spray-bottle,keeps-the-adults-off-the-new-kittens,from-thee-very-start.Ya-can-play-with-them,but-there-is-no-getting-rough-with-kittens,that,is,not,tolerated.

On-a-rare-occassion,I-have-one-that-will-test-me-per-say,as-head-of-the-pride,that-gets-squished,real-quick.

Before-I-type-it-all-out,lol,let-me-know-if-you-are-interested.It-will-work,but-you-have-to-be-consistant,you-will-have-to-do-this-with-both-kitties,and-being-that-it-went-on-for-so-long,again,not-your-fault,this-may-take-some-time.They-both,have-to-learn,you,not-them,rule-the-household,lol.

 

[hersheys mom]

I-can-tell-you-how-to-fix-this,but-ya-now-gotta-get-"pretty-stern"-with-Minja,as-she-was-the-original-aggressor,and-this-has-been-allowed-to-go-on-too-long.It-should-have-been-nipped-in-the-bud,from-the-beginng,now-both-kitties-are-jerking-your-chain,lol.

Not-at-all-blaming-you,lol,you-didn't-know.

I-show-and-have-new-kittens-come-into-the-household,so-I-am-pretty-used-to-it.

Basicly-what-is-going-on,is-whenever-a-new-kitty-comes-into-the-household,there-is-a-reshuffling-of-the-pecking-order.Sometimes,the-head-man-stays-at-the-top,sometime-he/she-falls,and-even-sometimes,the-new-one-becomes-head-man.

When-its-just-a-one-kitty-household,and-a-new-one-comes-in,the-new-one-gets-their-nose-out-of-joint,and-trys-to-assert-theirselfs,as-staying-on-top.If-the-new-one-is-timid,it-just-gives-the-resident-one,more-power,such-as-a-bully.

Reshuffling-is-fine,asserting-ones-position,is-fine,but,they-need-to-learn,from-the-head-of-the-pride,that-is-you,that-no-fistfighting-is-allowed.In-fact,it-will-not,be-tolerated.And-as-the-head-of-the-pride,you,asserts-their-power,as-the-momma-kitty,teaches-the-young-ones-manners,its-the-same-principal.

When-new-kittens-come-into-the-household,in-most-cases,-a-stern-voice,and-the-spray-bottle,keeps-the-adults-off-the-new-kittens,from-thee-very-start.Ya-can-play-with-them,but-there-is-no-getting-rough-with-kittens,that,is,not,tolerated.

On-a-rare-occassion,I-have-one-that-will-test-me-per-say,as-head-of-the-pride,that-gets-squished,real-quick.

Before-I-type-it-all-out,lol,let-me-know-if-you-are-interested.It-will-work,but-you-have-to-be-consistant,you-will-have-to-do-this-with-both-kitties,and-being-that-it-went-on-for-so-long,again,not-your-fault,this-may-take-some-time.They-both,have-to-learn,you,not-them,rule-the-household,lol.

Minja is the instigator 90% of the time. She was the first cat in the house. Two months later Hershey Rose arrived but was in quarantine for 6 weeks until I could make sure her diarrhea was not caused by anything that could harm Minja. Hershey Rose now growls and hisses back, no longer afraid of Minja. They hunt each other just to annoy each other. They seem to aggressive to be playing. Both cats are played with; they both have toys, and we "hunt" the mouse on the stick daily with each cat individually. They CAN tolerate each other, the fact that they can both sit on either side of me proves it. But then they just jump off the couch and start in chasing and growling, which results in my very stern "Knock it off" comment. Believe it or not, they stop the instant they hear that. I don't use a spray bottle. I don't believe in them. I know many people that use them, and it is a great deterrent, but it's just my feeling that all it does it give a cat a fear of water. Except for my mom's Mainecoon. She sprays him and he just looks at her. Doesn't even move. Cat's not afraid of anything. Right now, as I am typing this, Minja is beside me on the window perch. What is funny is that I am in Hershey Rose's room and she is sitting in Hershey's seat! Hershey is in Minja's room, sleeping. So beside giving Minja a time out in the bathroom for starting hissy fights, what else can I do? I'm open to suggestions!

 

[stealthkitty]

I would be interested in reading about that, Flint. Would you mind explaining it for the rest of us?

 

[txcatmom]

They seem to aggressive to be playing.

There is a really fine line with cats.  (I'm sure you've seen in person or video the rough play and wrestling of kittens.)  I know you said they have never gotten physical.  And while it sounds like there is some tension involved (with the hissing) I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it is sometimes play (or an attempt at play.)  Most of the hissing around here comes when someone crosses the line with play.  The hissing cat is just saying, "Hey, that's enough.  I'm not comfortable with that." I would try to relax and not let the hissing stress you out.   I think it sounds like things are going well for your two. 

Does Minja back off when HR hisses?  In that case I would not give her time out in the bathroom.  If she backs off when hearing a hiss, that is a good thing.   I'm not a big fan of time out, though.  In the rare occasion when I have one who is not respecting another cat's hissing and won't back off, I just pick them up and relocate them, talking to them calmly about playing nice....nothing punitive about it, just relocating. 

 

[flintmccullough]

Spraying-does-not-give-kitties-a-fear-of-water,lol,its-just--a-tool,and-like-any-tool,when-used-properly,does-its-job.

I-show-on-the-CFA-circuit,mine-are-LH,and-big-boys,Maine-Coon.The-adults-are-3-hours,start-to-finish,they-just-sit-there.The-kittens-are-1-1/2-hours-each,they-just-sit-there.They-have-no-fear-of-water.