Why are Show Siamese' so..different?

[tiffanyjbt]

Originally Posted by Mia mouse

ROFLOL @ 'frootbats' and 'gremmies'

LOL! I thought 'frootbats' was pretty funny when I first heard it too.

As for gremmies... Just look at these ears!!!



And she's not only stunning example of a gremmie, but she's a star too! This photo was taken around holloween when she had her debut on Martha Stewarts show! (she's not mine, but I sure wish she was!)

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt

LOL! I thought 'frootbats' was pretty funny when I first heard it too.

As for gremmies... Just look at these ears!!!



And she's not only stunning example of a gremmie, but she's a star too! This photo was taken around holloween when she had her debut on Martha Stewarts show! (she's not mine, but I sure wish she was!)

I know of an OSH breeder in Northern Virginia/Washington DC, Sheri Fox, I think it is, that refers to her cats as Gremlins ... is that one of Sheri's cats in the picture? You must be a member of SICC too!

 

[tiffanyjbt]

Originally Posted by gayef

I know of an OSH breeder in Northern Virginia/Washington DC, Sheri Fox, I think it is, that refers to her cats as Gremlins ... is that one of Sheri's cats in the picture? You must be a member of SICC too!

Bingo! And Sheri is AWSOME! She's helped me a LOT with Duke and her gremmies are gorgeous (yes, thats one of her cats)! My screen name is the same on SICC. Are you a member there too?

 

[celestialrags]

Gaye,
This is a little off topic (no more then me and another disscusing Borzois here, LOL!) But, are all the cats in your siggy "old style"? Lexis looks like what I would think of as old style, when I think of a meezer, that is what I picture, that face, and the big round eyes (love her) But, Tonka, goerge, (and forgive me, I forgot the other ones name

) look almost the same as each other, but to me (and it may just be the way they look in the pic) don't have that same look to them. And BTW I just love Goerge, LOL! One of my cats is crosseyed, and I love when she looks up at me with that silly look on her face

my b/f affectionly refers to her as crosseyed Mary (name is Honey though

) Sorry for the silly question, I am not too brite when it comes to siamese (or basicly any other breed except ragdolls,

)

 

[tiffanyjbt]

Originally Posted by celestialrags

And BTW I just love Goerge, LOL!

Yeah, I'm gonna have to join the George fan club as well. I have a soft spot for blue points (but nobody tell Duke that!

)

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt

Bingo! And Sheri is AWSOME! She's helped me a LOT with Duke and her gremmies are gorgeous (yes, thats one of her cats)! My screen name is the same on SICC. Are you a member there too?

I have sent you a PM on this ...

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by celestialrags

... Gaye, are all the cats in your siggy "old style"?

There isn't a way to answer this and be at all brief so get a cup of your favorite beverage and smoke 'em if you got 'em ...

Yes and No.

Yes, they are all "Old-Style" in that they all have the old-style body shape and overall appearance. However, body style and/or appearance alone doesn't make an Old-Style Siamese an Old-Style Siamese. They must also (and more importantly) possess an Old-Style pedigree. The Old-Style (let's shorten that to OSS for Old-Style Siamese, shall we? *grin*) Siamese cats will have pedigrees that do not have a lot of Modern cats in the background. You won't see a bunch of show titles in front of their names and you won't see a lot of popular Modern cattery names. In a Modern pedigree, you will see cats with names like "Gr.Ch.Int. Felitan Frodo of Petmark". The Gr.Ch.Int. means that he achieved Grand Champion International title in the show ring, Felitan is the Modern Siamese cattery who owned this cat's parents (modern defined as post-1955), Frodo is the cat's actual name and Petmark would be the Modern cattery who owns him currently. But in an actual Old-Style pedigree, you see very few show titles (like the Gr.Ch.Int. designation referenced above) and most of the cats contained within the ancestry are named things like "Baby Girl" with no cattery name either before or after it until a lot earlier (normally a lot earlier than 1955 or so) in the pedigree.

Specifically, Lexus is a Modern Siamese even though she appears to be more of an OSS. Her pedigree does not allow her to be considered a true OSS. Tonka is an Old-Style Siamese and his pedigree backs that up.

Lexis looks like what I would think of as old style, when I think of a meezer, that is what I picture, that face, and the big round eyes (love her) But, Tonka, goerge, (and forgive me, I forgot the other ones name

) look almost the same as each other, but to me (and it may just be the way they look in the pic) don't have that same look to them.

Actually, Lexus is very much a pet-quality Modern Siamese. She has more of the elongated wedge shape to her head than Tonka and her body is dainty - she is much smaller than Tonka and her bone-structure is delicate and refined. Tonka is a beefy, robust cat with a rounder shape to his head, his body is meaty and bulky and his bone-structure is much larger than Lexus. Most importantly, Lexus has more Modern cats in her pedigree than Tonka.

I like that in-between sort of look - just as Pearl and George have. They are larger, but still dainty, more robust, but still refined, their heads have a distinct wedge shape, but it is more moderate in appearance. When breeding Tonka and Lexus, I can achieve the look I like best in a Siamese cat and still be preserving Tonka's important old-style bloodline. The kittens they produce are IMO good examples of what an OSS should look like based on historical data, breed standards, written descriptions and pictures of cats from back in the day.

And BTW I just love Goerge, LOL! One of my cats is crosseyed, and I love when she looks up at me with that silly look on her face

my b/f affectionly refers to her as crosseyed Mary (name is Honey though

) Sorry for the silly question, I am not too brite when it comes to siamese (or basicly any other breed except ragdolls,

)

George is an awesome cat. His fur feels like warm butter suede and he is the most affectionate little thing on legs. George doesn't actually have crossed eyes although earlier pictures of him do seem to look that way. He has a lazy left eye and that makes it look like he is cross-eyed. As he has matured, it has corrected itself somewhat but if he is tired or stressed in any way, it will roll towards his nose.

Your boyfriend must be a Jethro Tull fan. "Cross-Eyed Mary" is a cut from the "Aqualung" album, originally released on vinyl back in the day.

 

[siameseohio]

Originally Posted by gayef

Specifically, Lexus is a Modern Siamese even though she appears to be more of an OSS. Her pedigree does not allow her to be considered a true OSS. Tonka is an Old-Style Siamese and his pedigree backs that up.

Actually, Lexus is very much a pet-quality Modern Siamese. She has more of the elongated wedge shape to her head than Tonka and her body is dainty - she is much smaller than Tonka and her bone-structure is delicate and refined. Tonka is a beefy, robust cat with a rounder shape to his head, his body is meaty and bulky and his bone-structure is much larger than Lexus. Most importantly, Lexus has more Modern cats in her pedigree than Tonka.

I like that in-between sort of look - just as Pearl and George have. They are larger, but still dainty, more robust, but still refined, their heads have a distinct wedge shape, but it is more moderate in appearance. When breeding Tonka and Lexus, I can achieve the look I like best in a Siamese cat and still be preserving Tonka's important old-style bloodline. The kittens they produce are IMO good examples of what an OSS should look like based on historical data, breed standards, written descriptions and pictures of cats from back in the day.

Hello gayef,

Thanks for your thoroughness in replying. I love to hear you break it down concerning Siamese.

I have a question. The way you explain Lexus' 'look', some people classify that as a Classic Siamese. What are your feelings on this? Thanks.

 

[angelkitty]

i THINK THERE adorable.. I have an Siamese X and I just love her.. She's obviously a mix,, but she looks alot like the older siamese...

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by siameseohio

Hello gayef,

Thanks for your thoroughness in replying. I love to hear you break it down concerning Siamese.

I have a question. The way you explain Lexus' 'look', some people classify that as a Classic Siamese. What are your feelings on this? Thanks.

A breeder I once knew had a very simplistic way of breaking down the "Classic/Traditional/Modern" labeling system ...

If a Siamese cat can be shown, that is to say, is a good example of the current breed standard, then that is a Show-Style Cat. All others are Old-Style.

Short and sweet.

However, appearances can be deceiving. It is entirely possible to have an OSS cat who appears to have a more Show-Style body type. That's why the pedigree has to back it up - we can look at many different cats and see an OSS appearance, but without the supporting ancestry, they are Show Style.

 

[siameseohio]

Thanks once again gayef. Your understanding of the breed is appreciated.

 

[denice]

Is the cross-eyed or lazy eye more common in the Siamese than in other breeds? It seems like I hear about it or see it more in the Siamese. I think it is really cute, almost like it goes with their unique personality.

 

[gayef]

Originally Posted by Denice

Is the cross-eyed or lazy eye more common in the Siamese than in other breeds? It seems like I hear about it or see it more in the Siamese. I think it is really cute, almost like it goes with their unique personality.

Actually, it was a highly desired trait and one that was even required in the very early breed standards. More recently, breeders improved the breed so that it doesn't show up as often, but every now and then we get one - kinked tails too!

 

[tiffanyjbt]

Originally Posted by gayef

kinked tails too!

Duke likes to pretend he has a kink:

 

[kattengek]

I LOVE this cat

Someday i want to own one just like that

 

[celestialrags]

Thanks for trying to explain

I think I had the two switched, I though they were opposites, (Lexus being the apple not the wedge, and vice versa) I understand a little better with some explanations.


That's funny that "crosseyed mary" is a song from Jethro Tull, he does listen to a lot of that, I am 10 years younger so I don't know that much of that erea, I will have to listen to it

 

[siameseohio]

Originally Posted by Kattengek



I LOVE this cat

Someday i want to own one just like that

Does this kitty have glitter or something on it?

 

[tiffanyjbt]

Originally Posted by siameseohio

Does this kitty have glitter or something on it?

I don't know. I don't think its allowed in the show rings, but this was for TV, so maybe? It may also be some kind of gel or gloss thats reflecting the light in a wierd way. Not sure??? (I do know that Dukes face looks like that after he eats... He's a messy eater

)

 

[gayef]

I think it is just the way the flash reflected in the fur ... I have a picture of one of my kittens which looks the same way. I normally don't use a flash with my photography but when I do, this effect has been a problem.

 

[siameseohio]

Oh.

Thanks.