why are cats declawed

[mferr84]

another declaw thread!

every single time someone starts a thread about declawing, everyone on here gets mad standing up for what they think is right... is anyone else getting sick of all the arguing(about everything) no? well i guess i've got something to say then too...

half(including myself) is thinking 'what is the big deal?', the other half the people say 'declawing is wrong, the owners are cruel, they dont care about their cats, their selfish'

give me a freaking break... since my wee-little days my family has owned only declawed cats... and now i have a cat of my own and she is declawed... and guess what, she is treated better and cared for and loved

more than anyone could ever even imagine... i dont consider what we did cruel... yea, i declawed her(front only of course) and i did feel bad at first because for a few days she acted like it hurt and i did it because of our furniture, call me selfish, whatever, i dont have $3000 growing out of my a$$ to replace my furniture every couple years after it has been shredded to miniscule(sp?) fibers... forgive me

now dont post a whole bunch of articles for me to read about declawing... i have read the thousand other declaw threads on here and read the websites about declawing and next time i get a cat, i will probably have it declawed... and i know about the alternatives and i know about scratching posts.. blah blah, read it all before

by the way, whose cat told them that declawing hurts their paws forever afterwards.... maybe for a couple of weeks, a month afterwards.... have you ever had surgery, yea, it hurts, till it heals.... then i think they really dont care... i have never seen a cat who acted like they were in any form of pain from declawing(after the given healing time)... if you have.. tell me i am wrong...
okay
now, for all the people who declaw, i think only a small amount will ever 'swtich over' and become anti-declaw.... so what is the point in allllllwwwaaaayyyys talking about it... there is always going to be someone against it and always someone for it....

and i breifly read something about banning delcawing in the u.s. i dont see that happening(although anything is possible), out of the thousands of cat owners that i have met, i have met two families(my husbands and a girlfriends from high school) who didnt declaw their cats

and i dont think we should worry about banning declawing in any country right now, we should worry about banning talking about it on TCS... because everytime, it turns into a big, international argument!

adeus!

 

[valanhb]

Just another friendly reminder to keep this thread flame free. It's been....well, it hasn't totally crossed the line yet.

Please refrain from any personal insults, from calling people cruel, etc. Besides not being allowed on this site, calling someone names will not do anything to change their minds.

Originally Posted by mferr84

now, for all the people who declaw, i think only a small amount will ever 'swtich over' and become anti-declaw.... so what is the point in allllllwwwaaaayyyys talking about it... there is always going to be someone against it and always someone for it....

and i breifly read something about banning delcawing in the u.s. i dont see that happening(although anything is possible), out of the thousands of cat owners that i have met, i have met two families(my husbands and a girlfriends from high school) who didnt declaw their cats

Meagan, I both agree and disagree with you on this. For the people who do know what declawing involves, you're right...they probably won't change their minds. But for the people who don't really know what the procedure is and get it done either "because we've always had declawed cats" or because the vet encourages it, I think education will dissuade quite a few of them.

It's interesting that you said that about all of the cat owners you've met having their cats declawed. Obviously, that's a minority figure here at TCS.

But I've actually had the opposite experience. I only know of one, maybe two households that do have their cats declawed. Maybe it's a regional thing?

 

[mferr84]

Originally Posted by valanhb

It's interesting that you said that about all of the cat owners you've met having their cats declawed. Obviously, that's a minority figure here at TCS.

But I've actually had the opposite experience. I only know of one, maybe two households that do have their cats declawed. Maybe it's a regional thing?

i actually meant to include that.... i really had no idea that there was ANYone against declawing until i started poking around on this site and then that is when i read all those articles and stuff and i realized people felt so strongly about it... it kinda surprised me cuz like i said, only two people i knew had cats with front claws

i suppose that is my own niaveness(sp? if that is even a word

) but i only knew what i was exposed to... i had never heard anyone express disbelief in declawing... so it is good for people to know EVERYthing about it before they do it...

and i agree with you, putting people down about their way of thinking and telling them that they are cruel and whatnot is not going to make them change their mind and think 'your' way, but it is going to make them mad and then eventually we have the gi-normous argument and we have gotten no where...

when you make people mad, there are less likely to listen to what you have to say... and you could have info that they dont know that would change their mind about declawing... and as soon as you say 'you are selfish and cruel and you only care about your furniture' and then you try to tell them what you know... not gunna work.... they quit listening at 'you are'

 

[vegansoprano]

I do agree that the biggest problem is with vets who treat declawing as a routine procedure comparable to spay/neuter. Quite simply, it's neither.

But what I do wonder is what people who declaw "to protect the furniture" do when their cat vomits on the furniture, or if he pees on it, or if he knocks an heirloom knick-knack off the shelf and breaks it. Cats are living creatures and they can be destructive. It concerns me because if someone is willing to have his cat's toes amputated rather than train him to use a scratching post instead of the sofa, why would I have any reason to believe they will use humane behavior modification to cope with any other problems that might develop? I simply would have a very difficult time trusting that the person won't lock the cat in a closet or dump him at the shelter if he ever peed on the sofa.

 

[mferr84]

peeing or vomiting would be the same as if a child wet their bed or didnt make it to the bathroom in time, an accident... things break, so what, i have broken more of my own knick-knacks than my cat has... who cares, if it something really special or pricelss, it is put up somwhere (in a cat-free zone or somewhere they(and my clumsy self) cant get to it-like in a curio)

pee and vomit come out of a couch a lot easier than tears and scratches do

and i dont understand why people who are anti-declaw use phrases like 'amputate the cats toes' or 'cutting off their finger'...

my cat still has fingers and toes... she just doesnt have nails

and as far as training them to use a scratching post.... sara (although without her "fingers") uses the two scratching post on her tree, as well as the rugs, or suitcases, or furniture, whatever is convenient at the time

 

[ghostuser]

Originally Posted by vegansoprano

I simply would have a very difficult time trusting that the person won't lock the cat in a closet or dump him at the shelter if he ever peed on the sofa.

They do dump them off at shelters. I can't tell you how many declaws (2 and 4 paw, by the way) are dumped at my shelter before they are a year old. What I want to know is who has the 600 extra dollars to throw away a spayed female? (And if I mentioned this before in this thread, sorry.)

As one of the ladies who have been there for years puts it, "If they can't stand the cat, then they can't stand it, claws or no claws."

The upside is that the declawed cats get adopted really fast.

 

[misscharlotte]

I grew up and live in an area where the mentality is to declaw a cat. When I made an appointment to have my kitten, Izzie, spayed, the vet asked if I will be having her declawed as well. It's almost like "Do you want fries with that?" kind of mentality. When I told my boyfriend I was getting a kitten, he gave me a bag of Yesterday's News to use when she'd be declawed. I told him I had no intentions of getting her declawed and he told me I was nuts and that my doors, furniture, etc. would be torn to shreds.

I found alternatives to declawing. I trim Izzie's claws and have trained her to use the scratching post. I've also tried Soft Claws. She was born with claws and I see no reason to have them removed. She hasn't caused any damage with her claws in the 5 months I've had her. I chose to have a cat so I feel I need to adapt to living with one. If that means providing a scratching post or owning furniture that is more rip proof, then that is what I need to do.

 

[spitfire]

At last, a REAL cat lover.

 

[mferr84]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

At last, a REAL cat lover.

i am sorry, but you are wrong... who gave you the credentials to judge what a REAL cat lover is... what because they agree with your point of view... that makes you ignorant... you have no idea how people other than yourself feel about their cats, and you are in no position to judge

and on top of all that, that offends me, i love my cat more than anyone or anything else in this world... my husband actually thinks that kind of sad... he can kiss my a$$ and as far as i am concerned...

how would you like it if you posted your opinion on something and someone came on and posted...

"at last, another ignorant human"

judging you because of your inability to comprehend and understand both sides of an arugument

you dont have to agree, but by god, be a grown up and show some respect for other people and their opinions and try not to judge, it isnt very becoming

 

[vegansoprano]

Originally Posted by wodesorel

They do dump them off at shelters. I can't tell you how many declaws (2 and 4 paw, by the way) are dumped at my shelter before they are a year old. What I want to know is who has the 600 extra dollars to throw away a spayed female? (And if I mentioned this before in this thread, sorry.)

As one of the ladies who have been there for years puts it, "If they can't stand the cat, then they can't stand it, claws or no claws."

The upside is that the declawed cats get adopted really fast.

...and probably dumped back at the shelter just as fast.

I agree completely with you. I think that a desire to declaw is symptomatic of a lack of tolerance for normal cat behavior and all the things that can come with it. Sure, the cat can't shred the furniture anymore, but he can still do a lot of other damage to your belongings. So in the end, if the belongings won once, they'll probably win again - and the cat gets screwed first by having his toes cut off, and then again when he is abandoned (and possibly killed).

 

[vegansoprano]

Originally Posted by mferr84

pee and vomit come out of a couch a lot easier than tears and scratches do

and i dont understand why people who are anti-declaw use phrases like 'amputate the cats toes' or 'cutting off their finger'...

my cat still has fingers and toes... she just doesnt have nails

I still haven't found a way to get pee entirely out of a sofa - if you have figured out how to do it, please let me know and I will be eternally grateful!

The declaw procedure (the medical term is onychectomy) is the amputation of the cat's toes at the first knuckle. Essentially, the toe is comprised of three separate bones and the first of these is amputated completely. Muscles and tendons are also severed in the process. It is absolutely, by definition, the amputation of part of each toe. It is not in any manner or form comparable to trimming claws. Here is more detailed information written by a vet:

"The goal of this surgery is the removal of the distal phalanx (last knuckle), along with the accompanying claw. The newest (though not as widespread) method of accomplishing this task is by the use of a carbon dioxide laser. This type of onychectomy can further minimize post-operative pain, and complications in any age animal from a strictly cranio-dorsal approach. The redundant epidermal tissue will now cover the majority of the onychectomy site. No sutures or tissue adhesive are advised.

To perform this surgery (in the routine, non-laser manner) first, the cat is given a general anesthetic, and the fur surrounding the cat's paws is shaved off. A tourniquet is placed around the leg, and the nail area is rinsed with surgical scrub. Amputation of each toe is accomplished by making a cut across the first joint (possible involving the foot pad) using a guillotine type nail cutter, or a surgical blade. The area is then tightly bandaged to prevent excessive hemorrhaging. The bandaging can be removed two to three days after the surgery. The wounds are closed with either sutures or adhesives, or left open. Shredded paper or newspaper pellet litter should be used in the litter box instead of kitty litter for a week following the surgery. The foot must be kept clean and dry to minimize infection."

The full text can be found here: http://www.askvetadvice.com/newslett...06162003.shtml

Here's an even more detailed site with pictures that demonstrate the procedure step by step: http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/sxclub/Onych...%20patient.pdf

If you don't believe this, talk to the vet who did your cat's procedure and ask him to explain exactly what it entails.

 

[jen]

What about the problems a cat could have in the years to come after the declaw surgery? If this was covered already sorry, I didn't read every last post on this thread.

These are the things I have heard:
-lack of claws can throw off the cats balance
-it can lead to biting more frequently because the cat has no other way to defend itself
-you can also NEVER let your cat go outdoors unsupervised (I would hope this is just common sense) because it cannot defend or protect itself
-if a young kitten is declawed, it cannot properly develop the muscles in its legs because it cannot stretch very well with no way of gripping onto anything
-an adult cat can develop arthritis because it can no longer exercise those leg muscles properly
-a cat can have litter problems because its feet are now sensitive, kind of like a person walking barefoot on gravel. (I know a cat doesn't walk on its claws but I would think that whole area would be a little more sensitive)
-I also heard that during the normal declawing (not laser) that a cat will sometimes mutter a little growl of pain despite being put out for the procedure
-What if you don't choose a great vet and the surgery goes horribly wrong?
-While in recovery with the little bandages on, a cat could pull them off because obviously a cat wouldn't want something like that on their feet if they can help it. So now you have the risk of the cat bleeding to death.
There is also now blood all over the cage it is recovering in because the vet isn't going to sit there next to the cage overnite and supervise the cat. The cat is traumatized by the pain and the blood and has no idea where it woke up to or who is around or whats going on. The holes where the claws used to be, where after the cat successfully removed the bandage and chewed at the glue that was holding it together, now have to be refilled with glue and pressed together, while the cat is AWAKE.

These things are just what COULD happen, certainly they aren't going to happen to every declawed cat. Some are also EXTREME situations. But why take the chances? I just don't understand it at all. I wish this would become illegal in the USA.

I certainly wouldn't even THINK of declawing my cats and if I lived in an apartment that required it, I would move or something. But since it is still legal in the USA, I must say I would certainly rather a cat find a new forever home who cares about it and takes it to the vet regularly and the cat is declawed, then to turn down an otherwise good home just because of that fact. On that note, I did just turn down a little older couple who were interested in my little kitty because the first word out of the lady's mouth was "we gotta go straight to the vet and declaw him" and I was like wait a minute, I have trained him not to scratch on anything but his post and he does not at all. I really don't want him to go to someone who won't even consider keeping him clawed. All she said was "cats have to be declawed they just tear up everything if they aren't" RRGGG, well I didn't want to get into WW3 so I just calmly explained it to her and said sorry and left.

Sorry this is so long and if any of the things I said are completely wrong, like I said I don't know a lot about declawing because I would never put a poor cat through that kind of trauma.

 

[ghostuser]

Originally Posted by vegansoprano

...and probably dumped back at the shelter just as fast.

I do hope you weren't trying to put words in my mouth.


Actually, the declawed cats stay in homes, rather than clawed cats. Clawed cats are returned frequently because they've clawed kids or owners. We've never had a clawed cat returned for "ruining the furniture". We are an anti-delcaw shelter. 90% of the cats we adopt out are too old to have the procedure done, so it's not like the new owners are doing it behind our backs.

I personally do not delcaw. I fought my mother tooth and nail against declawing the three I have now and I won. My fourth cat is a 14 year old delcaw I took home from the shelter. He wasn't dumped due to any delcawing issue, he was dumped because his owners were moving and didn't want cat hair or a litterbox in their new home. I've seen what happens to a delcawed cat. I don't like the thought of it.

But I've also been up to my shoulders in dead cats in the shelter's freezer. How many of those cats were dumped due to scratching issues??? Like I've said before, I'd rather see a cat declawed (and there are good vets who do it right, and send home pain meds) than be killed in a shelter. I think that at this point in the overpopulation crisis that people shouldn't be so concerned about the issue of declawing. The point is to stop the litters from being born, and to get the cats that are here into good homes, no matter what the cost.

 

[valanhb]

This thread is now closed. There is absolutely NO need for name calling and questioning of whether anyone here is a real cat lover. I realize that passions run strong and deep on this topic, but personal insults, whether stated or implied, are not acceptable in this community.

As much as I am opposed to declawing, I have also done enough research on what the surgery entails, and complication rates to know that the vast majority of cats are not physically or emotionally destroyed by this procedure. There is a lot of propoganda on this issue from both sides. And there is a lot of misinformation as well as actual statistics. Thanks to the internet, it seems the misinformation gets passed around more than the scientific research.

And once again I will state that the way to change someone's mind on an issue never includes insults. Education, presentation of the facts will always go farther than questioning someone's intelligence or morals - on this or any other issue.