When it's time to give Strawberry up

ducman69

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Originally Posted by otto

<snip>Amitriptyline is often quite helpful in a case like this. Keep her in a very small area with just her litter boxes, bed, toys, food and water. get an enzymatic cleaner. Use Cat Attract litter in the litter boxes. Install feliway plug in diffusers.<snip>
^ Exactly this. Excellent advice. Let us know how it goes.
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by Ducman69

^ Exactly this. Excellent advice. Let us know how it goes.
Ducman69, I hope you read the latest developments that this cat is peeing blood, jumping in and out of the box and not able to pee? This cat need a vet now, as opposed of being locked in a room with litter boxes, feliway and cat attract. That can be done, sure, it is an excellent idea, but this cat is clearly sick and needs urgent vet attention first...
 

northwest

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Hello mistyb,

Well, it's leaves me a bit sad to think of the options you're planning on doing. You've had Strawberry practically all her life for 7 years. To her, you're her parent. Even though she may not show it the way you want her to, she has bonded to you in her own way. She has to after 7 years!

I feel if you abandoned her at a farm, she would miss you and her brother Einstein. I don't know if animals are like humans in that regard, but if someone whom I bonded with for years dropped me off far away from home and left me, I would be terribly hurt and sad, depressed and lonely. Maybe cats can quickly move on emotionally, or maybe they feel sadness and loneliness too. If so and your cat is depressed now that would really make her feel worse and she may roam the hills forever looking for her long, lost loves -- you and her brother Einstein. I think in your quiet times, you'd miss her too and so would Einstein, and I think you'd wish you'd never done that.

On to your other solution. The only time I would put a pet down is if it was in serious pain and putting it down was more humane than having it live with the pain. If the bladder problem isn't causing serious pain I wouldn't do that either. A cat in that condition sent to the humane society would most likely be put down too.

Here are my suggestions:

First and foremost if your cat is peeing blood, you need to to go a vet and if that vet can't figure it out go to another one. It's either an infection, stones, and even cancer.

If you've ruled out disease try these suggestions:

Get a medium to large cage and put this in the house in a quite, private place. Put a cloth over half of the cage so it's partly private. Put a clean litter box in there with food and water and a comfortable place to sleep. Keep Strawberry in there when you are asleep and not home to watch her. When you're home, make sure she pees and poops before you let her out. The cage can help train her to use the litter and give her a place where she feels comfortable and safe and familiar.

If I were you, I'd get rid of the paper litter. I just discovered a littler called "The World's Greatest Cat Litter" It's all natural and made from corn cobs. It is a highly effective clumping litter, but isn't sticky and gummy like clumping clay litter is. This clumps better than clay but dry. It's very soft on the cats feet.

Another thing to consider is some cats will refuse to use a littler box if another cat has used it, or they think another cat can use it. Giving Strawberry her own cage and own litter box might help solve this. Keep the litter box clean at all times, at least once in the morning and once in the evening and on the weekends if you're home, once in the afternoon too. Every once in a while when Strawberry is walking around, gently take her to her cage and place her in the clean littler box, just to show her and reminder her where it is, and to see if she needs to go pee.

Most cats are very smart and they can develop personality issues based upon something simple that may have happened. Something you may not be aware of.

For example, when I got my cat a year ago, he was chasing me around playfully, but when I did the same to him, he got scared and for a month gave me the cold shoulder treatment and wouldn't have anything to do with me. I had to really show him I was sorry before he warmed back up to me. Now he's my best friend. However I still have to reassure him everything is okay if he is startled.

So my point being is maybe something happened to Strawberry that you're not aware of, something simple that you thought was no big deal, but to your cat was a major issue. Maybe something happened that makes her feel nervous or scared and so she looses control of her bladder. Don't get angry at her or raise your voice if she does loose bladder function in an inappropriate place. This will only make her more scared, more nervous more likely to not hold her bladder. Additionally, I don't know if you do this but don't point at the inappropriate place she pees and scold her. She won't understand that and may think you're telling her that's where she should go pee, and you're mad because she didn't pee more in that spot. Cats can misunderstand very easily. Instead do the following:

When you do see Strawberry use the litter box, show her how pleased your are! Hold her and hug her and talk softly to her and give her a cat treat. She will eventually associate using the littler with pleasure and happiness and being a good kitty. Do this each and every time you see her use the little box. If you catch her peeing anywhere but the litter box, take her to the littler box after you notice it and set her in the litter box and close the cage and leave her in there for awhile.

There could be some medical issue from the infections that is causing her not to be able to control her bladder function properly, so it may not be her direct fault.

keep trying, and I hope things work out for you and Strawberry
 
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mistyb

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So, Strawberry seems to be doing okay. I've been giving her 800mg of Valerian at night and she seems less stressed and not going in and out of the litterbox like she used to a couple of days ago. I also have on some calming music for her in her room.

I'm having a hard time finding a vet to prescribe amitriptyline. I'm looking for a new vet to prescribe that (if it's necessary) and to do an urinalysis and culture at the same time. I've called 3 vets so far, including our current one, and they don't prescribe it. Any advice on finding a vet who prescribes this?

Tomorrow I'm going out to buy the new cat attract litter. Also, how often should I replace the litterbox? I have 4 and they are in good shape and very clean, but they're 3-5 years old. Should I buy a new litterbox also?

Any advice on keeping stray cats away and cleaning their urine off outside (grill cover, house door, etc.)?

One last thing, does anyone have any experience giving St. John's Wort to cats? In case I can't get the amitriptyline.

Thank you so much for your responses!
 

carolina

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Originally Posted by mistyb

So, Strawberry seems to be doing okay. I've been giving her 800mg of Valerian at night and she seems less stressed and not going in and out of the litterbox like she used to a couple of days ago. I also have on some calming music for her in her room.

I'm having a hard time finding a vet to prescribe amitriptyline. I'm looking for a new vet to prescribe that (if it's necessary) and to do an urinalysis and culture at the same time. I've called 3 vets so far, including our current one, and they don't prescribe it. Any advice on finding a vet who prescribes this?

Tomorrow I'm going out to buy the new cat attract litter. Also, how often should I replace the litterbox? I have 4 and they are in good shape and very clean, but they're 3-5 years old. Should I buy a new litterbox also?

Any advice on keeping stray cats away and cleaning their urine off outside (grill cover, house door, etc.)?

One last thing, does anyone have any experience giving St. John's Wort to cats? In case I can't get the amitriptyline.

Thank you so much for your responses!
Hi Mistyb,
Your first priority should really be taking care of this urinary tract infection, that she clearly has... The other medication will take care of the behavior, but IMHO it should not be prescribed to a cat with infection, crystals or inflammation. The reason being is that these cats need to pee as much as possible to flush the bacteria and crystals out, while the medication makes them hold the urine in. She needs to be healthy to take that. That will come after your girl is treated, not at the same time.
Please, please take take her to the vet ASAP.... A UTI is so painful... That is the reason for her to go out of the box... If you don't fix that first, nothing will...
Your girl needs proper antibiotics, maybe an anti-inflammatory (no metacam, watch for that) and pain killers... A lot of times, just getting rid of the pain make them pee in the box again...
 

orangeishcat

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Misty, I'm so glad you decided not to give up! I knew the members here would have great ideas- I learn so much from them every day.

GOOD LUCK!!
 

ldg

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Mistyb, have you ever had a urinatry tract or bladder infection? I have. They are really painful. Please take Strawberry to any vet to address this. Just because there is no more blood doesn't mean the problem is gone.

Also, when there you can provide them with the information as to why you want to prescribe amitryptaline - and give them the further information about how it's jused in children, and the experiences of those of us at The Cat Site about how it helps a kitty retain urine and thus return to using the box. But also let them know you want to take care of her infection before using it. Many vets are willing to work with you (at least good ones are if they understand why you want to try something they've never used before. I'm sure they can also look up its use on vet med forums they have access to).

But like Carolina mentions - her infection needs to be treated before anything else.
 

northwest

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"So, Strawberry seems to be doing okay. I've been giving her 800mg of Valerian at night and she seems less stressed and not going in and out of the litterbox like she used to a couple of days ago. I also have on some calming music for her in her room. "

Stress can cause inflammation of the bladder (cystitis), as can a bacterial infection.

I've also read that herbal oils used for aromatherapy have worked when the scent is throughout the house. Don't use the cheap, grocery store synthetic stuff. Health food stores have natural aromatherapy oil blends for calm and relaxation or anti-anxiety. That may also help ease your stress too!


"I'm having a hard time finding a vet to prescribe amitriptyline. I'm looking for a new vet to prescribe that (if it's necessary) and to do an urinalysis and culture at the same time. I've called 3 vets so far, including our current one, and they don't prescribe it. Any advice on finding a vet who prescribes this?"

I wouldn't worry so much on finding a vet to prescribe Amitriptyline, but just get her to a vet to have her bladder problem looked at. You can deal with the cause (i.e. neurological, etc..) afterward.

A small amount of blood when she first urinates is most likely an issue with the bladder or urethra such as bacteria lodged in the bladder wall. If it goes unchecked it could lead to bladder cancer. If you see blood constant in the full urine stream it is most likely a kidney issue which can be a serious health problem.

"Tomorrow I'm going out to buy the new cat attract litter. Also, how often should I replace the litterbox? I have 4 and they are in good shape and very clean, but they're 3-5 years old. Should I buy a new litterbox also?"

If your cat is the type that has suddenly developed an uneasy feeling of using another cat's litter box, the scent of the other cat may be enough to cause some unrest. Plastics do absorb odors over time.

"Any advice on keeping stray cats away and cleaning their urine off outside (grill cover, house door, etc.)?"

Here are some product suggestions, each one has it's unique method:

1) Contech CatStop Ultrasonic Outdoor Cat Deterrent
http://tinyurl.com/contech-catstop

2) Mini ScareCrow Automatic Animal Deterrent
http://tinyurl.com/mini-scarecrow

3) Motion Activated Sprinkler - Animal Water Blaster
http://tinyurl.com/motion-sprinkler

4) Organic animal repellent spray
http://tinyurl.com/cat-repellent-spray
 

momofmany

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Concerning your question about how often to replace litter boxes:

I keep 2 sets of boxes in my home. When I change the litter in them, I rotate in a clean box and use a mild bleach solution to clean out the dirty one. Bleach isn't all that good for cats, so after I wash it with the solution, I rinse it out thoroughly and then let it sit in the sun so that the sun can bleach it out some more.

I keep both covered and uncovered litter boxes in my house, and the uncovered ones are used about 90% of the time. While some cats prefer the privacy of closed boxes, I find that most of the time they like open boxes. If yours are closed, consider buying open ones.

I've also found that the bigger the box, the more they like them. I buy large Sterilite storage bins (Rubbermaid works also) and use those as litter boxes. Not only are they cheaper, the cats like them far better than the smaller litter boxes.

Make the litter box attractive to Strawberry - a bigger box with Cat Attract litter.

And to second a previous recommendation, Nok Out works remarkably better than Nature's Miracle. I buy the 2 gallon jugs and apply liberally. I too have a chronic bladder issue with my Muddy and when his condition flairs up, the rest of the household responds to him by peeing out of the box. Muddy goes directly to the vet when any cat in my household pees outside the box.

It took a surgical biopsy to identify Muddy's problem - idiopathic cystitis. His bladder gets inflamed when he either eats the wrong food or he is highly stressed. When it inflames, he often gets infections or crystals and if left long enough, he blocks. If Strawberry has a chronic problem, it can be managed as long as you stay on top of it. Muddy hasn't had a major flare up in about 2-1/2 years. Muddy hates C/D, but we've found out that he really loves Purina UR canned food.
 
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mistyb

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Decided to go back to our current vet just for an urinalysis and culture to rule out bladder infection. There was actually a new vet at the clinic and she was the first to say this: Strawberry has Feline Idiopathic Cystitis. Out of all the other vets we've seen, none had mentioned this disorder and always kept prescribing antibiotics. I told her about Strawberry's history and by observing Strawberry in the office room, the vet told me she does have some sort of anxiety problems and asked me to look into a behavior specialist, which is what I was told last time I was on the phone with our vet. I told her we didn't have the money for it and told her I have been giving her Valerian. She then brought up... amitriptyline.
I was so relived to hear that, but why didn't the other vet at the clinic tell me that they don't prescribe it?! Argh!

So Strawberry has 10mg amitriptyline and 0.3ml of Buprenex for pain. She's only had the pain meds once today at 3 and is still kind of "zoned out" at 11. I'm supposed to give it to her 2x daily, but it looks like 1 is enough. I'm about to giver her her first dose of the antidepressant. I have a month supply and I was told that her behavior change might take 3-4 weeks.

I will keep Strawberry confined probably for the whole time. During her recovery I'll be going around in the house at night with a black light searching for any pee spots and wash the sofa cover really good. After 3 weeks or so I want to introduce Strawberry to the whole house again and maybe keep Einstein (her brother) confined during that time. Like switching them. I have a huge hunch that Einstein is stressing her out by dominating her.

The new vet at the clinic gave me a bunch of printed material to read about this disorder and problems arising from multiple cats. I just don't understand why Einstein would be doing this now. They were kittens when we got them. I have seen lately and it's becoming a big problem now that I think about it, but Einstein does seem to boss Strawberry around. He will chase her and she won't have any of it and will hiss at him and run. I've gotten on to him for it so many times and even disciplined him by holding the back of his neck and saying no while pointing my finger (all while he's laying, not grabbing him in the air). Even that is supposed to work, like how a mother cat would do, but it doesn't on him. I may have to invest in a small water gun


Anyways, she's a lot better now, very relaxed and not meowing so much (in pain) and not visiting the litterbox so much


Will keep you posted on how she's doing in a week. Thank you so much for your responses!
 

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Hi Mistyb, did you get the culture and the urinalysis done? I would still be concerned about the blood and the inflammation, and not treating her for that... About just treating her for the behavior and pain... Is she on any other treatment as well? Did he just diagnose her right off the bat without testing her?
 

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I am so glad you are here
Strawberry is a great name for a cat. Good for you for taking the advice and going back to the clinic and speaking with a new vet. That sounds like it will all help Strawberry, good game plan so far. Let us know when the culture comes back. So glad Strawberry is getting the help she needs, that must feel great

About your other cat and bullying, I think if you post another thread in the behavior section you will get some good advice on how to handle that too. So glad you didn't give up on Strawberry, sounds like she has really been through a lot.
 

stephanietx

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I'm so glad you saw a different vet! So glad you're getting some good help and answers!!

As to why this behavior may just be showing, it could really be associated with the pain. When kitties are in pain, it often manifests itself behaviorally. Once you get the pain taken care of, the behavior problems may subside or at least diminish some.
 

minka

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Originally Posted by mistyb

Decided to go back to our current vet just for an urinalysis and culture to rule out bladder infection.
It's obvious that she has something wrong with her bladder/urinary tract since she peed blood. That's great if your vet correctly identified the behavior part of her peeing, but it will not solve the problem of the havoc whatever infection she has is doing on her body. Please go back and have those tests done.

Switching over to F.I.C., I read that one of the recommended treatments is to switch to a 100% canned diet and that was one of the things I was going to recommend (FIC or not) because it will greatly increase the amount of water moving through her body and greatly help cut down on toxins in the bladder.
 

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We had some issues with Jake last fall peeing on beds, couches, blankets, etc... We ruled out medical issues and went to work with the anxiety and behavioral issues. We used Feliway plug in and spray. I did have a covered box, but went to an uncovered Sterlite large box and used Litter Attract. This stuff is amazing. I then covered the couch and bedding with old shower curtain liners. I also read you can cover them in foil since cats don't like the feel of foil. I would put Jake on the bed with the shower curtain liner and feed him small amounts of food and/or treats. I would then leave a cat bowl with a few treats or morsels of food. Cats don't like to potty where they eat. I would also keep the doors closed to rooms where he had previously peed. It took lots of dedication to keep an eye on him, but after 2 weeks, he was back to normal peeing in the box.

He loved the Cat Attract and also the bigger box.
 
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