what my vet said about raw diets

[8whiskers]

 
Use common sense & educate yourself with information, in order to stop giving in to fear.

You are the one responsible & taking the risk of keeping your cats on food you know to be "unhealthy".

Instead of counting on opinions, educate yourself until you are comfortable making the change.

Your cats are waiting for you to do what is best for them, and their health is in the balances until you do.

Then, once you do decide, continue to seek out even more information.

Little did I know I would have to become an expert & know as much as I do, back when I first started all of this "food research" for our cats.

But I now realize it is not only the best way, but the only way for us to avoid this sort of thing happening to us again.

We had cats eating kibble & a variety of foods over the past 35+ years, and could not in good conscience, go back to feeding our current & future companions the vile

things we gave them in the past, as they paid with their health & in many cases, their lives. SO we feel we owe it to their kin, to learn from our mistakes.

In short, there are no guarantees. SO you have to make the best choice you can & be willing to learn from any mistakes you may make.

You KNOW what your current food choices have done to their health. The real question is, what are you going to do about it now that you know?

Good Luck!

PS: as I said, educate yourself & use common sense. Even about proper food handling.

 (Tip, look into what people do in other countries, to help clean their meats when preparing a fresh chicken or meat.... one answer...Vinegar! The acid kills off the bacteria.)

While I appreciate your input and perspective, this almost reads as a canned response. I'm not trying to insult you, but it doesn't all seem to fit to my original posting.

That said, I'm not "relying on opinions," but I AM interested in the experiences from the people on this board who switched to raw food. Will I follow everything everyone says here to the letter? Of course not. But it does help me to make an informed decision on what's best for MY cats to see what others have done for theirs and what they have learned in their process.

I posted previously that I have taken them off kibble completely, and they are on the best quality canned food I can find/afford while I research further how I want to feed them from now on. I ordered a small bag of Feline Instincts and will try that with them and see how it goes. If they don't like it or it's not a good fit for them, I'll move on to something else.

Meanwhile, I am also following my vet's instructions with my one cat who has a bladder stone we're trying to shrink. I will keep her informed of the food choices I make for them. I'm not sure why, but it seems that it's not being taken into consideration in this thread that she was NOT AT ALL against a raw diet. Her only concern was the safety and quality of the meat we have access to here in Colorado. Maybe she is unaware of the online meat sources that I've seen mentioned here, and I will share those with her.

We all want the same thing here - the best food, care and health for our beloved cats. I'm so thankful for this board that I have learned so much from, I don't know what I'd do without it and all the people that use it!

 

[8whiskers]

Quick update - Autumn (the one that's been on s/d only to shrink the stone in her bladder) just got checked out and her stone is almost completely GONE! She's on the food 3 more weeks, but it looks like she will avoid surgery. Woo hoo!

 

[stephanie42]

glad to hear about autumn!

from what i can gather, vets who 'object' to raw feeding cite contamination of meat at the source and cross contamination as the main issues.  cats' digestive tracts are not like ours.  they eat raw meat in the wild.  they. eat. raw. meat.  if we eat raw chicken, we run a high risk of salmonella.  obviously cats do not.  personally, i think the big stink about raw is because vets are not generally trained on nutrition aside from AAFCO standards, which most grocery brands meet, so why bother with anything else?  (i had one vet tell me that cats should only eat kibble.  i told him one of the modified raw foods i used was dry and he was like, oh good, just feed them nothing but that.... this is an ex-vet now.)

i'm glad your vet seems open to the idea.  now that autumn's stone isn't a pressing issue, are you still considering transitioning your brood to raw?  i was feeding freeze dried raw diets plus a 'raw' kibble, but one of my cats has kidney failure and a dental issue requiring surgery... and i've gone back to more 'normal' foods until that's sorted out.  my cats were very happy with their diet.  i'm now feeding them quality kibble as a snack at bedtime and canned food twice a day.  the vet i most recently saw was not happy with me feeding a raw diet... most vets i've experienced aren't.  

my feeling is that if you don't get sick from the meat you buy and prepare, why would your cats?  if i were feeding raw meats, i'd probably find a local butcher that could work with me.  if you're willing to buy less-than-desirable cuts or leftover pieces, s/he might work out a deal with you.  i also considered TC Feline powders - they have all the vitamins and whatnot cats need in a powder that you mix into your meats.  it seems like an easy way to still feed real meat raw.

 

[ritz]

Great news about Autumn.
I'm sure you've read all the stickies under the Raw forum. I know I did before I jumped into the world of Raw feeding. I started off with commercial raw because I knew it was nutritionally complete. I read some more. I decided the convenience of being able to buy protein/liver/kidney in a grocery store versus high end pet store was worth investigating even more throughly feeding prey model raw (a/k/a frankenprey). I learned even more through trial and trial and some error as I feed Ritz; sometimes experience is worth at least as much as book learning. (She loves red meat but can't handle it if she hasn't been fed for +six hours.)
I'm glad your vet is at least open to the idea of feeding raw; my vet is not. We agree to disagree on that issue, and I ask The Cat Site for advice about raw feeding (how much bone is in a chicken head.....!), not my vet.

 

[8whiskers]

Thanks all! I need to feed Autumn the s/d only food for three more weeks, then transition her to the c/d food. They said I could also at that point feed her "quality canned" as I'm doing now in addition to the c/d. I'm not thrilled that I still have to feed her that kibble, but am ecstatic if she gets to avoid surgery!

I'm definitely switching them to raw in some form. I'm printing out the brochure/nutritional info from Feline Instincts for their My Natural Cat powdered supplement for a raw meat diet to show my vet. I'm doing the transition slowly, as Autumn can't participate for at least 3 weeks, so I don't want her too far behind. Besides, I'll have a lot of trial and error with 8 cast as to who likes what and who won't eat that, etc...

Funny story - a friend of mine works in a local emergency room (for people) and had a young veterinarian volunteering there for some reason. I doubt she is a great vet - she thought it was "gross" when my friend said he had 3 cats. I'm sure she'd be horrified at my 8! Anyway, he mentioned something about all the crap in commercial cat food and the benefits about going to a raw diet. She said that was a horrible idea, she's seen cats come to the clinic with seizures from raw diets and no one should go that route. She personally fed her cat Royal Canin and said that was much healthier... uh huh.

At the pet store the other day, while reading labels I looked at Royal Canin. They list pork by-products as an ingredient! I'd like her to explain how feeding her cat all parts of diseased, disabled and dying pigs along with their inedible body parts is healthier than a piece of raw chicken from a butcher..... LOL!

 

[8whiskers]

Just got back from the vet - great news!

She has not only heard of Feline Instincts "My Natural Cat" raw food, but currently uses the version for dogs! she even knows one of the owners of the company. She thought it was a great way to start their transition to raw. She and I are both in agreement that the mouse and the finch are the cats' natural diet, and that raw is a good way to go for cats.

I asked her about her daughter's case of salmonella - it was from restaurant food, but was an extremely severe case.

I asked her to clarify what she meant by a "safe meat source." Her concern was not just for the cats - but for all of us - and how animals for meat are raised, handled and processed. Irradiating the meat to kill bacteria before it goes to market only solves part of the problem, and could actually cause different bacteria to grow on the meat we buy in the store. It doesn't bother us humans because we cook it before we eat it. But to feed it to our pets could cause issues.

She thinks going raw and getting as close to the mouse diet as possible is a great idea. We will just need to monitor my cats carefully and watch for any signs something is wrong. At least if it's something from the raw meat - we have a good place to start when figuring out future problems (if any).

One more reason I love my vet - she's awesome, open minded and very knowledgeable!

 

[zoneout]

 
from what i can gather, vets who 'object' to raw feeding cite contamination of meat at the source and cross contamination as the main issues.  cats' digestive tracts are not like ours.  they eat raw meat in the wild.  they. eat. raw. meat.  if we eat raw chicken, we run a high risk of salmonella.  obviously cats do not.  personally, i think the big stink about raw is because vets are not generally trained on nutrition aside from AAFCO standards, which most grocery brands meet, so why bother with anything else?  (i had one vet tell me that cats should only eat kibble. 

I Agree.  Vets are not trained on nutrition.  Unfortunately, veterinary schools do not educate students about the link between poor nutrition and disease..   They are trained to treat symptoms, not the underlying cause of the problem.

Here is a quote from the esteemed Dr Lisa Pierson, DVM (catinfo.org):

Unfortunately, many of my colleagues do, indeed, recommend products made by Hill’s (as well as Purina, Iams, and Royal Canin) and this is a testament to the fact that most veterinarians are not well-versed in proper feline nutrition and simply defer to these large companies that have huge marketing budgets.  These large budgets include substantial sums of money dedicated to sponsoring - including very heavy advertising - our professional meetings and infiltrating veterinary schools to get students ‘married’ to their products.

 

[spider jones]

I agree regarding vets and nutrition; my vet goes blank when I mention diet and invariably says something like "I will need to look into that" or " nutrition is not really my thing". I do get sick of being told by the vet staff that my cat's teeth will suffer if I do not feed the dry food that they just happen to stock.
Having a fair amount of social theory under my belt, I understand it to be linked to the capitalist society. Someone pointed out to me recently that even humans are not designed to eat a lot of grains. It just happened that a cheap way to fill up the masses in order to perpetuate an industrialised society, was bread. Now we have all manner of grain-related disease and ill health.

 

[jodiethierry64]

I agree regarding vets and nutrition; my vet goes blank when I mention diet and invariably says something like "I will need to look into that" or " nutrition is not really my thing". I do get sick of being told by the vet staff that my cat's teeth will suffer if I do not feed the dry food that they just happen to stock.
Having a fair amount of social theory under my belt, I understand it to be linked to the capitalist society. Someone pointed out to me recently that even humans are not designed to eat a lot of grains. It just happened that a cheap way to fill up the masses in order to perpetuate an industrialised society, was bread. Now we have all manner of grain-related

disease and ill health.

Yes capitalism is great isn't it? AUGH!!!
Anyway that's part of why humans have become obese. Also the so called prescriptionsood sold by vets, don't even qualify as prescription. It's not medicated. It's just an agreement between the vets and Hills Science that they will only sell that type at the vets. That way you can ONLY buy it through them. The vet increases the price and profits from it. Shame-Shame on them!!!!!!!

 

[jodiethierry64]

I meant to say prescription food!! Ha-Ha

 

[stephanie42]

great discussion, and great news about your raw-friendly vet 8whiskers!  sounds like you have a good plan in place for transitioning to raw - i'm still considering going back to raw one day, perhaps once piglet's kidneys are controlled.

i'm concerned about the meat supply for everyone, too.  which is why i generally don't bother eating meat.  when i do, i try to only eat it from sources i know and trust.  usually.  sometimes i'm bad and get a random burger, but you know.  i like a good burger once in a while.

i'm less concerned about byproducts in high quality food.  if i'm happy with the info i have from the company and trust their sources, i trust they're not using diseased meat (i know, a big hunk of trust).  chicken byproducts can contain all the crap like beaks and what not, but even though it's a beak or a foot, it is a natural thing and something a cat might gnaw on in the great wild (my opinion, but i have seen my old cat eat small birds head to creepy bird feet, beak and all).  i have an issue with pork byproducts thought.  i try to stick to feeding my cats things with feathers or fur (chicken, turkey, duck, rabbit) and throw in a bit of lamb because they seem to really like it.  

 

[peaches08]

 
Just got back from the vet - great news!

She has not only heard of Feline Instincts "My Natural Cat" raw food, but currently uses the version for dogs! she even knows one of the owners of the company. She thought it was a great way to start their transition to raw. She and I are both in agreement that the mouse and the finch are the cats' natural diet, and that raw is a good way to go for cats.

I asked her about her daughter's case of salmonella - it was from restaurant food, but was an extremely severe case.

I asked her to clarify what she meant by a "safe meat source." Her concern was not just for the cats - but for all of us - and how animals for meat are raised, handled and processed. Irradiating the meat to kill bacteria before it goes to market only solves part of the problem, and could actually cause different bacteria to grow on the meat we buy in the store. It doesn't bother us humans because we cook it before we eat it. But to feed it to our pets could cause issues.

She thinks going raw and getting as close to the mouse diet as possible is a great idea. We will just need to monitor my cats carefully and watch for any signs something is wrong. At least if it's something from the raw meat - we have a good place to start when figuring out future problems (if any).

One more reason I love my vet - she's awesome, open minded and very knowledgeable!

OK, I understand what your vet is getting at now.  I had a small "hobby farm" at one point in my life, and I made a deal with a neighbor to cut my hay field and provide my horse with hay in exchange for keeping a few of his cows there.  These "grass fed" heifers had hormone implants and were fed grain once or twice a week.  And he was one of the better ones!  It's a double-edged sword what our farmers deal with.  Almost no chicken farmers own their own chickens (I'm talking major producers, not your local farmer's market).  You have a contract, here's the chicks, and the bottom line is what matters.  That means medicated foods, dead carcasses eaten by other chickens (increase in medication in surviving chickens), etc.  So yeah, I get what she's getting at.  However, what's going into a lot of rendering plants is so much worse. 

The salmonella poisoning, IF that's what it was, as LDG points out could have been from something else other than meat.  One of my rotations in nursing school has been to go through kitchens with the health inspector.  I wanted to throw up at times.  Gloved hands being rubbing against dirty pants, through hair, scratching face...ugh.

Most cats deal with the bacteria just fine.  If your cat is handing dry kibble OK, which after opening and not keeping in a sealed container and in the fridge will grow bacteria easily, then bacteria is the least of your concerns.

 

[spider jones]

I meant to say prescription food!! Ha-Ha

Haha! Sood is a better word for it because it sure ain't food. It's disguised as food. Shood? Lol

I agree regarding vets basing their advice on the products they need to sell; for shame. Surely it breaches their ethical codes? Then again I distrust the human medical model and I guess the animal medical model is based on that.