What Is Better Dry Or Wet

[td whittle]

The vet was wrong. If kibbles helped clean teeth, why do so many cats with a dry diet need dental appointments? Cats do not chew as much as we think. Kibbles do not have any effect on plaque and tarter.

They do chew the veterinary dental kibbles. You can hear and see my cat crunching away on them, and it's helped his teeth enormously. I think if you have a cat with healthy teeth, you can feed them chicken necks to keep their teeth clean. But if you have a rescue cat, as we do, who came with compromised teeth and gums, you do what you have to do to help them. (I would also add though that the cat with the best teeth I ever saw in my life ate almost entirely dry food, not dental kibble, and she was twelve years old.) I am not sure where this idea that cats don't chew comes from but, at any rate, the wet food does not afford them any opportunity to chew because it's already completely ground up. It has other health benefits, I agree, but is not good for dental health. I had a cat dental specialist with whom I consulted explain this to me. She feeds her cats high quality kibble and human grade raw meat. Both of these require chewing.

 

[cheesycats]

There’s been plenty of recent studies that show kibble doesn’t clean teeth. I’ve even seen a 3D model of a cats jaw crunching down on a dental type kibble and the most it does is clean the tip of the tooth which of course isn’t where the issues begin. It’s at the gum line issues start. Dental health has a lot to do with genetics as well. I’ve had cats same ages same diet have drastically different teeth quality. Also most decay is happening under the gum line so not visible until one day when you come home and your cat has an abscesses tooth under the gum. And my cats have never chewed their kibble. Anytime theyd puke up a furball or just puke anything up they would puke whole pieces of kibble up. Their teeth and jaw allignment aren’t made for crunching but gnawing at tendons flesh and bone.
I don’t think wet or dry are any better or worse than the other however dry food promotes dry mouths which promotes dental decay. Wet food promotes moist wet mouths which helps keep teeth from decaying.

 

[Azazel]

In addition to @cheesycats’ fantastic post, even if a kibble is large enough that a cat will chew it, it is highly unlikely that it will scrape against their gum line in the way that a raw bone would. Cats don’t have to work their jaw when they chew kibble nearly half as hard as they would chewing a raw meaty chunk or raw bone. We also know that starches and sugars contribute to dental disease. Kibble is full of starches and sugars.

Anecdotal stories about kibble fed cats and clean teeth can just as easily be due to genetics. There are just as many kibble fed cats with dental disease as there are without.

 

[10009891]

My vet wasn't too impressed when I told him I feed my cats raw and/or freeze dried raw food. He said that raw cat food has residual bacteria in it that can be very dangerous to the health of my cats. He highly recommended Science Diet Kibble, also suggested IAMS, 9 Lives, Whiskas pouch that has moisture, and even Meow Mix. He said all these brands are AAFCO approved, that all is well feeding these pet food brands instead of buying the expensive stuff. He also stated that dry kibble food is good for the health of the cats teeth.

 

[Azazel]

My vet wasn't too impressed when I told him I feed my cats raw and/or freeze dried raw food. He said that raw cat food has residual bacteria in it that can be very dangerous to the health of my cats. He highly recommended Science Diet Kibble, also suggested IAMS, 9 Lives, Whiskas pouch that has moisture, and even Meow Mix. He said all these brands are AAFCO approved, that all is well feeding these pet food brands instead of buying the expensive stuff. He also stated that dry kibble food is good for the health of the cats teeth.

I’m sorry but your vet seems deeply misinformed.

 

[td whittle]

In addition to @cheesycats’ fantastic post, even if a kibble is large enough that a cat will chew it, it is highly unlikely that it will scrape against their gum line in the way that a raw bone would. Cats don’t have to work their jaw when they chew kibble nearly half as hard as they would chewing a raw meaty chunk or raw bone. We also know that starches and sugars contribute to dental disease. Kibble is full of starches and sugars.

Anecdotal stories about kibble fed cats and clean teeth can just as easily be due to genetics. There are just as many kibble fed cats with dental disease as there are without.

I realise you all may have had different experiences but I have consulted with three vets, one a small-animal specialist, and one highly respected cat dental specialist who treats cats exclusively, and I am telling you flat out the dental kibble has made a huge difference in my cat's oral health. I consulted these people because when we adopted him, he was young but already showing signs of poor dental health, so he does not have great genetics for teeth. Obviously, it is helping. Obviously, my vet checks under his gums as everyone is well aware that is where dental problems begin. Whatever you can see on a video of a particular cat or set of cats chewing, I can tell you that my cat chews his kibble and it cleans his teeth and keeps his gums healthy. He was having problems before we got him on the dental kibble. I think what is anecdotal is people quoting various "studies" but not having experiences with their actual cats having their dental health turned around for the better. I am happy for people to do whatever works for their cats, but I think this bollocks about dry food being bad for cats and their dental health is very unhelpful and misinformed (although I realise it's everywhere on the internet). My last cat lived to be nearly nineteen years old and ate only Purina Cat Chow, with some bits of fresh food such as cooked chicken, and tins of Fancy Feast now and again. She was a very happy and healthy feline.

 

[molly92]

My vet wasn't too impressed when I told him I feed my cats raw and/or freeze dried raw food. He said that raw cat food has residual bacteria in it that can be very dangerous to the health of my cats. He highly recommended Science Diet Kibble, also suggested IAMS, 9 Lives, Whiskas pouch that has moisture, and even Meow Mix. He said all these brands are AAFCO approved, that all is well feeding these pet food brands instead of buying the expensive stuff. He also stated that dry kibble food is good for the health of the cats teeth.

They just recalled ritz crackers due to salmonella, and there's no raw meat in those! Point being dangerous bacteria are everywhere, so better to at least go with a brand with a good quality assurance reputation. Most raw food companies test their food for pathogens constantly because veterinarians are so against their food, much more often than dry and wet food companies. Also a lot of them use HPP as well. And they're all AAFCO approved too.

Homemade raw/cooked is a different area. Great if you know what you're doing, but easy to mess up, and I think that's where most vets get their bad impression of raw from--when people make mistakes making cat food themselves and they see the negative consequences. (Not that you can't do it right, but I'm not brave enough.)

 

[Azazel]

I realise you all may have had different experiences but I have consulted with three vets, one a small-animal specialist, and one highly respected cat dental specialist who treats cats exclusively, and I am telling you flat out the dental kibble has made a huge difference in my cat's oral health. I consulted these people because when we adopted him, he was young but already showing signs of poor dental health, so he does not have great genetics for teeth. Obviously, it is helping. Obviously, my vet checks under his gums as everyone is well aware that is where dental problems begin. Whatever you can see on a video of a particular cat or set of cats chewing, I can tell you that my cat chews his kibble and it cleans his teeth and keeps his gums healthy. He was having problems before we got him on the dental kibble. I think what is anecdotal is people quoting various "studies" but not having experiences with their actual cats having their dental health turned around for the better. I am happy for people to do whatever works for their cats, but I think this bollocks about dry food being bad for cats and their dental health is very unhelpful and misinformed (although I realise it's everywhere on the internet). My last cat lived to be nearly nineteen years old and ate only Purina Cat Chow, with some bits of fresh food such as cooked chicken, and tins of Fancy Feast now and again. She was a very happy and healthy feline.

I’m glad you’ve had good experiences but the definition of “anecdotal” is citing your experience and what 3 vets said. I can also list 3 vets who agree with me. Citing studies is called providing empirical evidence.

Some cats will live long lives on junk food the same way that some humans will. It doesn’t make the food healthy. Cats are obligate carnivores. Cat chow is primarily carbohydrates.

 

[KarenKat]

I realise you all may have had different experiences but I have consulted with three vets, one a small-animal specialist, and one highly respected cat dental specialist who treats cats exclusively, and I am telling you flat out the dental kibble has made a huge difference in my cat's oral health.

I think it’s important to to note that regular kibble does not clean teeth, but dental kibble has been shown to reduce tartar.

“There are now several brands of dental diets that have been shown to reduce tartar, but they are dry foods that still have all the other problems associated with those diets, including generally inferior ingredients.”

“Many of the early studies showed less tartar formation with hard dry food vs the same food mixed with water, and similar results were reported in a study with canned vs dry cat foods. In 1965 a study compared feeding raw whole bovine trachea, esophagus, and attached muscle and fat, vs the same food minced. Plaque and gingival inflammation were increased with the minced diet. Even more fascinating, they tube-fed the minced food and found that plaque and gingivitis did not decrease, “showing food did not need to be present in the mouth to induce these changes.” In fact, gingivitis tended to increase when cats were tube-fed, “suggesting that even the minimal chewing required with minced food had some cleansing or protective effect.”” - Dr Jean Hofve, “What Cats Should Eat”

When it comes down to it, there are few studies on most cat nutrition. What we have is our own anecdotal evidence and obviously your cat had profound dental improvement on the dental kibble. I think this is important to say because if it works for your cat it works. I would say based on everyone else’s stories, if it’s meant to be preventative for a healthy cat, dry food causes many problems and at best is similar to eating bones for dental health. But maybe there is something with your kitty that the dental kibble was just right for.

 

[Azazel]

I think it’s important to to note that regular kibble does not clean teeth, but dental kibble has been shown to reduce tartar.

“There are now several brands of dental diets that have been shown to reduce tartar, but they are dry foods that still have all the other problems associated with those diets, including generally inferior ingredients.”

“Many of the early studies showed less tartar formation with hard dry food vs the same food mixed with water, and similar results were reported in a study with canned vs dry cat foods. In 1965 a study compared feeding raw whole bovine trachea, esophagus, and attached muscle and fat, vs the same food minced. Plaque and gingival inflammation were increased with the minced diet. Even more fascinating, they tube-fed the minced food and found that plaque and gingivitis did not decrease, “showing food did not need to be present in the mouth to induce these changes.” In fact, gingivitis tended to increase when cats were tube-fed, “suggesting that even the minimal chewing required with minced food had some cleansing or protective effect.”” - Dr Jean Hofve, “What Cats Should Eat”

When it comes down to it, there are few studies on most cat nutrition. What we have is our own anecdotal evidence and obviously your cat had profound dental improvement on the dental kibble. I think this is important to say because if it works for your cat it works. I would say based on everyone else’s stories, if it’s meant to be preventative for a healthy cat, dry food causes many problems and at best is similar to eating bones for dental health. But maybe there is something with your kitty that the dental kibble was just right for.

Are there citations to the studies? Would be interested to read.

 

[josiegirl]

My vet wasn't too impressed when I told him I feed my cats raw and/or freeze dried raw food. He said that raw cat food has residual bacteria in it that can be very dangerous to the health of my cats. He highly recommended Science Diet Kibble, also suggested IAMS, 9 Lives, Whiskas pouch that has moisture, and even Meow Mix. He said all these brands are AAFCO approved, that all is well feeding these pet food brands instead of buying the expensive stuff. He also stated that dry kibble food is good for the health of the cats teeth.

Wow...Any way you can get your vet to watch the documentary called "Pet Fooled"? AAFCO doesn't even really regulate pet food companies, it's just a guideline. They even admit it. It's so lax it's laughable.

I'd run to another vet. That vet works FOR YOU. You pay him to treat injuries and illnesses, not to give nutritional advice. He's giving you bad advice.

 

[josiegirl]

I’m glad you’ve had good experiences but the definition of “anecdotal” is citing your experience and what 3 vets said. I can also list 3 vets who agree with me. Citing studies is called providing empirical evidence.

Some cats will live long lives on junk food the same way that some humans will. It doesn’t make the food healthy. Cats are obligate carnivores. Cat chow is primarily carbohydrates.

My brother lives on pure junk food and he's healthy as a horse. Ticks me off, lol.

 

[KarenKat]

The text came from Dr Hofve’s book “What Cats Should Eat” and she comes down very hard on kibble. There is a bone - pun intended - half thrown to dental kibble (but not treats or regular dry food) from the quote I mentioned but she thinks that the risk of other illnesses is not worth it.

Both quotes within what I copied from her book are sited as:
Watson A. Diet and periodontal disease in dogs and cats. Australian Veterinary Journal. 1994;71: 313-318.

Not sure where to actually dig up the study though, lol.

 

[Azazel]

The text came from Dr Hofve’s book “What Cats Should Eat” and she comes down very hard on kibble. There is a bone - pun intended - half thrown to dental kibble (but not treats or regular dry food) from the quote I mentioned but she thinks that the risk of other illnesses is not worth it.

Both quotes within what I copied from her book are sited as:
Watson A. Diet and periodontal disease in dogs and cats. Australian Veterinary Journal. 1994;71: 313-318.

Not sure where to actually dig up the study though, lol.

I’ll dig it up, thanks!

 

[maggiedemi]

td whittle thanks for telling us your experience with the Dental kibble. Was it prescription kibble or just off the shelf?
My cats have to have a mostly canned food diet, but they do get some dry food. I have to keep it under half a cup or they get urinary problems.

 

[JamesCalifornia]

~ I've read a few posts that say raw chicken gizzards are good for kitty's teeth . I just got some and I shall see ...

​

 

[KarenKat]

I heard that too. I bought some chicken liver and Olive wasn’t a fan, lol. I ended up trying to feed her a raw chicken wing and she reaaaaallly liked that. I’ve never seen her so perfectly content after a meal.

 

[10009891]

I am slowly transitioning to Rawz can food and their kibble brand that's very high in protein and meat content, just to save a bit more money. I will mostly use the kibble as a topper, but wet food will be the main feeding.

 

[td whittle]

td whittle thanks for telling us your experience with the Dental kibble. Was it prescription kibble or just off the shelf?
My cats have to have a mostly canned food diet, but they do get some dry food. I have to keep it under half a cup or they get urinary problems.

Hi M maggiedemi , It's Hill's t/d but I don't think the Hill's is better necessarily than the Royal Canin one. It is a big kibble but we have a structurally large cat so he loves it. The RC kibble is smaller. I did get the recommendation from a vet consultation but I buy it online here in Australia. I am not sure whether you can do that where you live? Good luck with your pussycats' health and feeding.

 

[JamesCalifornia]

I ended up trying to feed her a raw chicken wing and she reaaaaallly liked that.

~ Yes that's a great ! I will try some baby chicken wings .
td whittle @ post #37 also mentions this .