What do I do if my cats start fighting and what is considered "real" fighting.?

[beborice]

I never had 2 cats before. They are both males.  Ollie who is approximately 4 1/2 and Sammy who is 6 months old.  I have had Sammy since he was 9 wks and Ollie since he was about a yr.  When I brought Sammy home in April I was amazed that Ollie had not much interest in Sammy from day one.  When Sammy would eat Ollie's food or lay in his spot, Ollie did nothing.  It was almost to good to be true.  Sammy is playful and Ollie seems not to be interested.

Today I think I saw them "really fighting" and panicked.  Sammy tried to get on Ollie's regular spot and Ollie got mad .  Sammy (the kitten) was first to attack but Ollie was fighting back and I got frightened and ran out of my apartment.  When I came back they had stopped.  This episode is making me nervous and I need to be prepared when it happens again which I am assuming it will.  Sammy is only 6 months and is getting bigger by the minute.  What will it be like when he is 1 year old?

This really frightened me.

 

[franksmom]

Cats play fight a lot and as long as fur isn't flying it probably isn't a huge deal. Mine chase each other around the house all the time but they are just playing. I suggest if you do see a bad fight about to break out try to redirect them with toys. Also play with them together with wand toys like Da Bird. The other thing is to get lots of vertical spaces for them like cat trees and cat shelves so they can escape the other cat if they want. 

 

[Willowy]

Are they both neutered? Sammy is just about the right age to be sexually mature so if he's not done yet, it should be done soon.

If they are neutered (I'm not sure anything other than neutering can be done if they aren't, because tomcats rarely will tolerate another tom in their territory), Sammy is getting too old to be tolerated simply because he's a kitten, so there's bound to be a few tiffs while they work out who's the boss. If you see things starting to get tense, try to redirect them (distract them with food or a toy or petting, etc.), but if they do get into a tiff it's probably still OK. Some slapping and hissing and howling and wrestling around is fairly normal, as long as it doesn't last more than 10 seconds or so. It never fails in my house---2 cats will be play-fighting and one gets tired of it and the other doesn't and things get loud for a couple seconds. But no real harm comes of it. If it happens more than once a day or there are ever any injuries, then you'd have to reassess your options.

You can sometimes distract them with a loud noise if they're going at it. Worst case scenario, and it's a real fight with fur flying and it's lasting more than 10 seconds---you can throw a glass of water on them. But only do that in an emergency, because it could end up making them dislike each other for real (each blaming the other cat for the water).

 

[cccdlx]

Is it Serious? 1. Is one keeping the other away from food or water? 2.Is one hiding in strange places? These are two of the clues that it could be serious.  Do you have more than on litter box?  IS SAMMY NEUTERED?

DITTO Franksmom

A spray bottle of water works well.  Long range that is.

 

[beborice]

This is very helpful.  They are both neutered.  I don't think they have had a "real fight" as yet but Sammy the kitten is getting much more confident and does not "bow out" of tiffs like he did when he was smaller.  I guess I am just scared thats all  Fighting of any kind (people included) puts me in a panic.

I have a small apt with not too much room for them to escape each other.  I do have a kittie condo which they do love to get away from each other.  Ollie the older cat is the one who usually wants to get away.  He has also lost weight since I have brought Sammy home in April, about a lb. or little more.  Should I be worried?  He always was a feinicky eater but he has gotten worse since I brought Sammy home.  He is biting to.  He bites me when he wants something, sometimes drawing blood if I am not quick enough.  He has been doing that since I have had him declawed in June of 2012.  All he wants to eat are his treats.  Its very frustrating

 

[beborice]

OK he is not hiding in places or keeping him from his food.  Ollie the older cat has not been eating that good but he never did, always particular and a grazer but I weighted him and he has lost about a lb since I have had Sammie.  Ollie also doesn't "play" with his toys anymore and seems to have lost interest in everything except his treats.  LOL

Both are neutered.  

 

[sivyaleah]

This is very helpful.  They are both neutered.  I don't think they have had a "real fight" as yet but Sammy the kitten is getting much more confident and does not "bow out" of tiffs like he did when he was smaller.  I guess I am just scared thats all  Fighting of any kind (people included) puts me in a panic.

I have a small apt with not too much room for them to escape each other.  I do have a kittie condo which they do love to get away from each other.  Ollie the older cat is the one who usually wants to get away.  He has also lost weight since I have brought Sammy home in April, about a lb. or little more.  Should I be worried?  He always was a feinicky eater but he has gotten worse since I brought Sammy home.  He is biting to.  He bites me when he wants something, sometimes drawing blood if I am not quick enough.  He has been doing that since I have had him declawed in June of 2012.  All he wants to eat are his treats.  Its very frustrating

The biting, I'm guessing, is an entirely different issue.  Many declawed cats resort to biting since they do not have their claws any longer to defend themselves. The weight loss might be related to this as well as he could be in pain because of it; cats are notoriously good at hiding when they don't feel well and what the declaw does is amputate the front of their joints - not just take off nails as a lot of people seem to think.   They also frequently will suffer from litter box aversion since many litter brands don't feel soft enough for them any longer.

We are an anti-declaw site here, not sure why you went this route but be prepared to hear some negative feedback in this regard.

You'll need to be sure to keep your kittens claws well trimmed so that they are on an even "playing field".  In fact, I wonder if Ollie isn't responding the way he is because of not being able to properly defend himself, even though it might be playful.  I hope, you do not plan on declawing the kitten.  Please, read the resources available on this site and educate yourself first if you are thinking of doing so.

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/why-cats-should-not-be-declawed

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/declawing-more-than-just-a-manicure

 

[beborice]

I am sorry about declawing Ollie.  My vet and I tried everything including nail tips.  When my furniture was older I didn't care at all although I did try everything for him to use on his nails; sticky stuff, sprays, false nails, all different kinds of polls, etc.  

When I bought my new furniture I knew it would be him or the furniture.  I did not want to get rid of him and I did not want to spray him and be after him all the time and when I am at work I would have been horrified to see my stuff torn up.  Rather than go thru this I opted for declaw which I have never done to my cats and don't believe in.  It was painful for me to.  I still am punishing myself for it.  It was done over a year ago and he has definitely resorted to biting after that.  I believe he still bites me because of it but thats my guilt

Sammy was declawed at the shelter.  I was amazed that they asked me.  They did it by laser and it seems that Sammy the kitten never knew he had claws.  It was the best thing  for Ollie to.  It would have never worked out if Sammy had claws.

I know about how people feel about declawing as I feel the same but I needed to save myself and my kitties from constant stress and frustration keeping them off the furniture.  Ollie stretches on my chairs all the time but doesn't have claws.  I can imagine what my chair would look like now had I not done it.

I feel very bad about it too

 

[franksmom]

i do not understand how soft paws would not have worked in this situation. Cats will not scratch things with sticky tape on it so again not sure how that would not have worked. I have trained my cats not to scratch my furniture very easily but if for some reason there was a problem I would just put a cover on the couch instead of resulting to amputating them or getting rid of members of my family. Sorry but there is no excuse to amputate an animals toes and both cats will now have to live through a lifetime of pain. I am shocked that a shelter would declaw a cat as the ASPCA and most shelters are against it because they see so many behaviour problems like biting in declawed cats. 

What done is done but you need to realize the realities of what declawing is so you can understand why your cat is now losing weight and biting. Here is an article by a vet on what the surgery is (http://www.littlebigcat.com.php5-16.dfw1-1.websitetestlink.com/?p=200). Humans that are amputated experience phantom pain 40% of the time from one amputation and since cats undergo ten separate amputations so they will have pain in at least one of the sites. Declawing also completely changes the way they walk and they are unable to properly stretch their feet and back which causes muscle strain and arthritis. See (http://www.littlebigcat.com/declawing/physical-consequences-of-declawing/) and (http://www.littlebigcat.com/declawing/declawing-a-physical-therapist-assistants-perspective/).

There are things now that you can do to bring some relief to both your cats. I strongly urge you to read this article on things you can do to help them (http://www.littlebigcat.com/declawing/relief-for-declawed-cats/). Losing a pound for an adult cat is something to be very worried about and he needs to go to a vet, preferably one who only sees cats. I would suggest you get an x-ray of his feet and bloodwork. Cats can very easily develop hepatic lipidosis if they go off food and it is not something you want to mess with (http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/12/13/feline-hepatic-lipidosis.aspx). 

 

[beborice]

I appreciate what you are saying but this is not HELPFUL!  It only makes me feel worse and that is probably what your intention was!

 

[beborice]

I will seek help elsewhere where I don't feel judged!

 

[franksmom]

I was trying to give you information on how to help your cat and try to make you understand that your cat is in pain. Please read the article on how to help declawed cats in pain (http://www.littlebigcat.com/declawing/relief-for-declawed-cats/). Other people read these threads in order to get information and that is why I felt I needed to make clear that there is never a good reason to declaw a cat. 

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]My intention is not to make you feel bad but to give you information on why you should never do this to another cat and how to help your cats now because at least one is in a lot of pain and needs help. [/font]

 

[beborice]

Thanks for the information but I am a bit insulted to hear you say that my cats are in pain.  I see your good intention but it still makes me "feel" bad and I would not want to read MORE information which probably would only make me feel worse.  Thank you just the same.

 

[franksmom]

It is just the reality if your cat is not eating well and biting he is in pain. Again not an insult but the reality is declawing causes chronic pain and they need things like spirit essences and massage in even uncomplicated cases. Cats are very stoic and because your cat is showing signs he may need some more specialized care. Please please read things you can do to help him  [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]([/color]http://www.littlebigcat.com/declawing/relief-for-declawed-cats/[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]) and take him to the vet for xrays and bloodwork to see what is going on.[/color]

 

[vball91]

I appreciate what you are saying but this is not HELPFUL!  It only makes me feel worse and that is probably what your intention was!

As has been mentioned, this site is very anti-declawing. The intention is not to make you feel bad or judge you. Honestly, it's about the well-being of the cats. The information provided is to help you understand what declawing can do to the physical and emotional well-being of your cats. What's done is done, and people here are trying to help you understand what may be going on with Ollie. Please try to take your emotions out of the equation and think about what's best for your cats.

 

[beborice]

No way are my cats in any pain other than the pains of true love with too much indulgence.  This is not a new thing with his biting.  From the start I should have stopped it but I am not good when it comes to discipline and would often let him get away with a brisk scold or worse yet tolerate it.  I have let it go on entirely too long so I have only myself to blame.

As far as the eating goes, from day one he has been the true poster cat for the word "finicky".  He loves his treats and wants them all the time.  He dislikes wet food but I open a can of Friskies just so he can lick the juice out of the can.  He prefers dry food and will  graze throughout the day but its his treats that he wants and begs for.  As I said, I am bad at discipline and would give him much to many treats and I guess he was a little on the hefty size although I would say it was just his hair. LOL.   I have really been trying to cut back on the treats because I don't think it is good for him.  He is mad at me and thus will sometimes try and bite me if I don't get him some treats.  I have been trying my hardest to set boundaries with him and not let him intimidate me and I am getting better at it.  I don't want Sammy to pick up his bad eating habits. He might have lost weight due to me not giving him treats all day.  I will keep my eye on the situation just in case.  Actually he looks much healthier.  I appreciate this site and have gone to it several times for insight and suggestions.  Each cat is unique in their own way just like humans.  We can generalize things in order to better understand the commonality of things  but it is impossible for me to "really" know your cat just like it's impossible for you to really know my cats.

 

[cccdlx]

Take a deep breath, step back, and start back at your original question. Have their interactions with each other improved?

I'm really sorry you feel insulted by some of the feedback you've received.  They REALLY ARE on trying to help! 

The fact is, cats are much more complicated and harder to read than dogs or horses. The people here contribute their experience, knowledge, and wisdom to help cat lovers. Many have dealt with, no doubt, thousand of cats. They will also probably be the first ones to tell you they are still learning new things.There is much to gain from a multitude counselors.  Those that learn the most are the ones that have dealt with huge numbers of cats and sought advice from others with more experience. Set your pride aside for a second and keep an open mind to what they have to say.   

 

[beborice]

I'm sorry if I sound defensive.  I am not that type of person but I guess I did feel attacked.  I do appreciate everything I read and experience.  I never had 2 cats before and prepared for the occasion from the "experts" and had everything ready to go.  My experience couldn't have been more different than I had prepared for.  That doesn't mean it wasn't a valid method and I would probably prepare that way just the same if I got another cat even though my experience was completely different. Life is a journey and I am rarely surprised by it's complexity (animals less so

 

[cccdlx]

So, are they getting along any better? 

 

[beborice]

yes, they have been fine.  I think it was my panic more than their fighting  At least if it happens again I think I can handle it better.